Zelensky to meet Trump in Washington on Monday after summit with Putin ends without deal

[Couchpotato]

There is no ceasefire agreement but Russia better hope Trump doesn't cripple their economy.

How would Trump cripple the Russian economy? Anyone who was paying attention knew the US wasnt going to be able to do that very soon after the oil sanctions were put in place and China and India said, nah we are still buying their oil. Oh and Europe buying a record amount of LNG from Russia last year is a bit of hint as well.....

 

[Couchpotato]

Yeah, Trump wouldn't want to do a phone call with Zelensky and get caught trying to shake the man down again.

The reality is, Putin already got what he wanted, which was a photo op.

I keep hearing this talking point. What exactly is it you think Putin gets out of a "photo op"?

Ukrainians are already tiring of this war, Zelenskyy is out of troops, and eventually, they are going to have to negotiate on the current front lines being the new border.

You mean the deal they could have gotten 3 years ago minus the destruction and death?

 

[JoeB131]

The world allows another dictator to win, again.

I think it's more along the line of, the world has no idea how to resolve this.

Since neither Russia nor Ukraine can be defeated outright, the only way out of this is negotiation.

But the two sides are poles apart on what they want.

Russia wants to keep all the territory they've seized and then some, and they want any remaining Ukrainian state to be a compliant state like Belarus is. In short, they want it to be a nuetral buffer against the West.

Ukraine wants a restoration of its 2014 borders, and it wants to join NATO and the EU to ensure its independence from Russia.


My Peace proposal would be.

1) Russia Keeps Crimea.
2) They return Kherson and Zaphorizia
3) Donetsk and Lubensk are placed under UN administration, followed by a referendum if they want to join Ukraine or Russia.
4) Ukraine is allowed to join the EU but not NATO.
5) Finland and the Baltic States are also removed from NATO, creating a neutral zone of nations between Russia and NATO.

This seems reasonable and fair. Everyone gets some of what they want, and peace is restored

 

[OldFlame]

The world allows another dictator to win, again.

Yeah, we should be nuking Moscow.

 

[Blaster]

Yeah, we should be nuking Moscow.

Bad idea.

 

[ColonelAngus]

This is a good thing, right?

Lefties do not want the war to end.

 

[Blaster]

Putin states Ukraine war wouldn't have begun if Trump was president instead of Biden: 'Can confirm' | Fox News Video

Russian president Vladimir Putin backs Trump claim that Ukraine conflict would have been avoided if Trump remained in White House after 2020 election.

www.foxnews.com

 

[pknopp]

There is zero chance that happens. Russia never agrees to it. It's the reason they invaded Ukraine in the first place and as long has he maintains the conflict Ukraine cant join NATO.


Public support for the war IN UKRAINE has plummeted. People want it to end. As is the norm the people shouting the loudest about how we have to fight a war are the ones who will never actually participate in fighting it.

I dont disagree that it's never going to happen.

Zelensky will have to be removed to get an agreement.

Installing leaders of our choosing never works out well.

 

[JoeB131]

There is no ceasefire agreement but Russia better hope Trump doesn't cripple their economy.

TACO - Trump Always Chickens Out

 

[there4eyeM]

Yeah, we should be nuking Moscow.

Given the level of "thinking" displayed around here, it is no surprise that such a view is expressed as the only alternative. That way, everything and everyone is imprisoned in the binary mind bind.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

I keep hearing this talking point. What exactly is it you think Putin gets out of a "photo op"?


You mean the deal they could have gotten 3 years ago minus the destruction and death?

Putin even said if Trump had been POTUS it wouldn't have gotten this far

Putin backs Trump's claim that the Ukraine war would not have happened if he’d won 2020 election

Russian President Vladimir Putin says he believes Trump's claim is true that the war in Ukraine would not have even begun if he were president instead of Joe Biden when it started.

www.foxnews.com

 

[shockedcanadian]

Zelensky and Europe are going to have to accept in their minds that Russia is not going to just give up ground they have made. Can Ukraine receive some of what they lost? I assume some give and take will occur.

Ultimately, as much as Putin is responsible for this tragedy, he cannot just end the war without being able to say to his people "mission accomplished".

Ditto for Zelensky in that they have to at least be able to defend themselves in the future. NATO may be off of the table.

If the EU and the Chicken Hawks push for an unrealistic outcome, they are the ones who just want the war to continue.

If Putin just want to drag this out to avoid economic harm, he just wants the war to continue.

It's impossible to know this early but Trump is going to have to throw his weight around eventually if Putin is being most unreasonable. If the EU want to hold a hard and unrealistic line (and let's remember, none of us are on the inside and privy to military intelligence), they will have to be willing to accept their own red-line that when crossed, they are going to send Ukraine a million of their own soldiers.

That's the state we are in. WWIII can begin when we least expect it. It's the exact same for WWI and WWII. It came out of nowhere, though both wars had plenty of indicators that foolish, naive, surprised leaders refused to see.

Which way will this go? I suspect Putin wants to bite off more than he can chew and if Europe gets involved and there is a concerted effort to NOT buy Russia oil, the globe isolates China and Russia, then an end will be realized.

 

[there4eyeM]

Bad idea.

It isn't an idea at all.

 

[OldFlame]

Bad idea.

That was sarcasm. lol That's what the left would apparently have us do.

 

[Couchpotato]

Putin even said if Trump had been POTUS it wouldn't have gotten this far

Putin backs Trump's claim that the Ukraine war would not have happened if he’d won 2020 election

Russian President Vladimir Putin says he believes Trump's claim is true that the war in Ukraine would not have even begun if he were president instead of Joe Biden when it started.

www.foxnews.com

Maybe. I don't know that that means anything. What's he supposed to say? If Putin wants an off ramp which I think he does being unnecessarily confrontational or argumentative with the person you're trying to work out a deal with is counter productive.

I do think it's true that Trump likely would have pushed NATO to sign the agreement to not put Ukraine into NATO which if done likely would have precluded Russia from invading but I don't know that NATO would have done so.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Maybe. I don't know that that means anything. What's he supposed to say? If Putin wants an off ramp which I think he does being unnecessarily confrontational or argumentative with the person you're trying to work out a deal with is counter productive.

I do think it's true that Trump likely would have pushed NATO to sign the agreement to not put Ukraine into NATO which if done likely would have precluded Russia from invading but I don't know that NATO would have done so.

I don't know either but it's gotten way out of hand and Biden handing Zelensky an open check book didn't help

 

[Couchpotato]

TACO - Trump Always Chickens Out

It's not a matter of "chickening out". The US cant cripple the Russian economy if they could what was Biden's excuse for not doing so for 3+ years? If there's some simple lever the POTUS can pull to bring this war to an end where Russia is economically decimated why wait until now to pull it? The reality is once India and China said nope not participating in the sanctions the fantasy that we could "cripple Russia with sanctions" was shattered. For ***** sake the EU bought more LNG from Russia LAST year than ever before. Everyone wants Russia to lose so long is they aren't too inconvenienced to get it done.

 

[ColonelAngus]

POOTY AND THE BAD ORANGE MAN JUST RIGGED THE MIDTERMS!

WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE!!

 

[sartre play]

Zelensky is the one person with his nose in this, directly in it. It's his country that was attacked, regardless of the ugly spin.

If he decides it's time to give in on something, I'll trust him to know what's best for his country. If not, and if he and Europe think he can wait Russia out until it implodes, he should be supported.

But I think he knows that he can't take anything Trump tells him, or any promises Trump makes, as serious. And no doubt, that's the counsel he's receiving from our former friends and former allies in Europe.

Zelensky is the one person with his nose in this, directly in it. It's his country that was attacked, regardless of the ugly spin.

If he decides it's time to give in on something, I'll trust him to know what's best for his country. If not, and if he and Europe think he can wait Russia out until it implodes, he should be supported.

But I think he knows that he can't take anything Trump tells him, or any promises Trump makes, as serious. And no doubt, that's the counsel he's receiving from our former friends and former allies in Europe.

PUTIN as always did his usual, he gets something or he walks.

 

[sartre play]

I think it's more along the line of, the world has no idea how to resolve this.

Since neither Russia nor Ukraine can be defeated outright, the only way out of this is negotiation.

But the two sides are poles apart on what they want.

Russia wants to keep all the territory they've seized and then some, and they want any remaining Ukrainian state to be a compliant state like Belarus is. In short, they want it to be a nuetral buffer against the West.

Ukraine wants a restoration of its 2014 borders, and it wants to join NATO and the EU to ensure its independence from Russia.


My Peace proposal would be.

1) Russia Keeps Crimea.
2) They return Kherson and Zaphorizia
3) Donetsk and Lubensk are placed under UN administration, followed by a referendum if they want to join Ukraine or Russia.
4) Ukraine is allowed to join the EU but not NATO.
5) Finland and the Baltic States are also removed from NATO, creating a neutral zone of nations between Russia and NATO.

This seems reasonable and fair. Everyone gets some of what they want, and peace is restored

Never and NO to Russia Crimea,
due a little Research,
Giving RUSSIA anything, may not be good
but ???? to end war HATE it but possible?????
NO NO NO EVER on CRIMEA.