Zelensky has threatened to punish any Christian caught worshiping in "unapproved ways."

[Esdraelon]

Whatever zelenski is Putin is worse

The issue for me is russian territorial aggression against a smaller country

Yes, Putin is a murderous thug but I have a question. If he or Xi were gradually arming and training forces in south or central America and stationing sophisticated weapons closer and closer to our border with Mexico, what do you think DC would do about that? He warned the west over and over and over that NATO creeping closer to Russia's border was unacceptable and he was ignored. This conflict is not a black and white issue.

Our own SecDef publicly stated that we wanted to weaken Russia so they never go on offense against anyone again. Frankly, anyone who thinks Putin is going to accept Russian forces being pushed out of Crimea, is delusional. Things are slowly escalating and the people in charge in DC are so corrupt they're only interested in how much more $ they can steal.

 

[Dragonlady]

- YouTube

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Yeap, and some of you thought Putin was the enemy.

Why is it that every time I see Russian propaganda about the Ukraine and the Bidens from FOX News, you’re the gullible idiot posting these lies.

Are you this stupid or is someone paying you to undermine democracy on behalf of Russia.

We know why Tucker Carlson and Rupert Murdoch are spreading this bullshit. Why do YOU parrot their garbage?

 

[Sunni Man]

I know that's one theory, but there was no serious movement to vote the Ukraine into NATO, partly because it was one of the most corrupt nations in Europe, and the NATO members did not want to provoke a war minded Russia.

Not a theory.
Read up on the Minsk Agreement.
Also, some U.S. politicians from the Biden administration, right before the invasion, were assuring Zelensky they were diligently working behind the scenes to fast track Nato membership for Ukraine.
Putin knew this was going on.
Forcing him to launch a preemptive invasion before Ukraine was granted Nato membership.

 

[Esdraelon]

Putin is just throwing excuses against the wall to see what sticks

Uh huh... well he's been doing it for more than 2 decades and no one in the west was listening.

 

[AntonToo]

I just call it as I see it from what is written about it. You can believe Hillary and Putin never had a cozy and complimentary relationship, but that's pretty difficult to defend with the evidence we have. Yes there was a falling out after 2012. Perhaps Hillary was trying to defend herself after the uranium sale scandal but she definitely flip flopped on her attitude re Putin. And there was no love lost on his part at that time either.

What evidence? You read some half-baked bullshit somewhere and you think it's evidence?

Clinton didn't "organize Uranium deal with Putin", she approved a sale of a privately owned Canadian uranium processing company to Russian owned company. Her DoS saw no national security risk in the deal and no one ever argued that it was. Aside from DoS eight other departments cleared the deal.

There is no serious evidence deal had something to do with Clinton's feelings about Putin, or that Clinton compromized what she considered good policy out of some personal considerations.

 

[Foxfyre]

The reality check says:

Russian leaders spent the last 30 years begging the West to stop its military expansion in EASTERN EUROPE not UKRAINE only.

Last time I checked Ukraine wasn't the only eastern european country.

If anything Russia was too patient and put up with a lot of NATO expansionism before reacting militarily although it probably had more to do with Russia's weakness after the end of the Cold War.

Supporters of NATO expansionism want to limit the discussion to Ukraine because they simply can't deny NATO's unprovoked, gratuitous policy of military encirclement of european Russia.

The total surrounding of Russia's western borders was, is and always will be Nato's policy. Why do you think Biden and the european leadership refused Putin's proposal to sign an agreement promising Ukraine would never join the military organization?

Russia has been a suspicious and paranoid country ever since Lenin seized power from the Czars. They don't trust anybody and suspect everybody. And a heavily armed and unified Europe is not in Russia's best interest as they see it.

But again, Vladimir Putin is a formidable individual and compared to the inept Yeltzin that he replaced, he was seen as a competent and decisive leader by the Russian people. Because he demonstrated good organizational skills and was committed to developing a market economy, he significantly improved the quality of life for most Russians. He also has the instincts of a totalitarian dictator and retains just enough of that to maintain personal power. And he knows that Russia will never enjoy its glory days he envisions with a unified and heavily armed Europe amassed against him.

The rest of Europe sees Russia is seen as expansionist minded military power with unstable relationships with all the other European countries but provides resources necessary for their well being.

All that aside, I think the invasion of the Ukraine was not only brutal, bloody, unjustified, it was also a military miscalculation on the part of Putin. He misjudged the staying power of those who choose to ally with Zelensky. Now its just a matter of who gives up first. There will be no winner in this war as is the case with most wars these days.

 

[BothWings]

At what point did you decide to side with your country's enemy against your country's ally?

Russia has never done anywhere near the damage to our country as the Obama and Bush administrations did.

 

[Foxfyre]

Russia and Ukraine have been money laundering partners for a long, long time. They keep it separate from the politics. It's no accident both Putin and Zelensky are among the richest men in Europe.

I'm not sure re Zelensky. Some put his net worth at just over $1 million which is certainly not poor and definitely worth more than his fairly low salary as President would generate but not among the richest either. it does suggest he has likely profited in his position. Putin by contrast is worth at least $70 billion making him the richest leader of any nation and places him among the world's richest people. That is certainly due to profiteering from his position as well.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, Putin is a murderous thug but I have a question. If he or Xi were gradually arming and training forces in south or central America and stationing sophisticated weapons closer and closer to our border with Mexico, what do you think DC would do about that? He warned the west over and over and over that NATO creeping closer to Russia's border was unacceptable and he was ignored. This conflict is not a black and white issue.

Our own SecDef publicly stated that we wanted to weaken Russia so they never go on offense against anyone again. Frankly, anyone who thinks Putin is going to accept Russian forces being pushed out of Crimea, is delusional. Things are slowly escalating and the people in charge in DC are so corrupt they're only interested in how much more $ they can steal.

There is that too and I think in the interest of accuracy we have to acknowledge it. Russia had not made any aggressive move toward us when Khruschev started putting nuclear missiles on Cuba. That was an unacceptable risk to us and JFK was ready to go to war with Russia if it had been necessary to stop and reverse that. In that case Russia backed off and no war was necessary.

So is Russia justified in pushing back on a Europe that is increasingly arming itself? Then again is the rest of Europe wrong to increase its own defense against a nuclear and expansionist minded Russia? Which one is obligated to back off? That would make an excellent formal debate.

 

[Sunni Man]

Putin had a cordial relationship with Obama and the Democrats, and was an honored guest at the White House several times.
But right before the Sochi winter olympics held in Russia.
Putin banned all Homo Pride Parades and also the gay Rainbow flag being publicly displayed during the winter games.
This turned Obama and the Democrats against him.
Then later when Putin refused to legalize homo pretend marriage.
Putin and Russia were declared public enemy #1 by the U.S. / EU globalist governments.

 

[White 6]

We’ve always cast them as the “bad guy” but there isn’t a good reason to have an adversarial relationship with them necessarily. That applies with most nations. The argument can be made that that relationship is what’s caused Russia to do many of the things that they have done that we dont like.

All they have to do, to be ignored is stay in their country's borders without threatening anybody or invading, and they will be happily ignored. They were ignored after many foolishly thought, the Cold War was over, simply because the Soviet Union went out of business. Turns out, they just took time to regroup and extend timetables.

 

[sparky]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Yeap, and some of you thought Putin was the enemy.

'Eff Zelensky along with all those in Congress that greased his ride

~S~

 

[MagicMike]

Russia has never done anywhere near the damage to our country as the Obama and Bush administrations did.

Whatever you say my Commie comrade.

 

[22lcidw]

Whatever zelenski is Putin is worse

The issue for me is russian territorial aggression against a smaller country

Putin is a nationalist who is somewhat corrupted. He is wary of outsiders interfering with his nation. They helped to bring communism to Russia. The globalists that many of our politicians have sold out too.

 

[Sunni Man]

All they have to do, to be ignored is stay in their country's borders without threatening anybody or invading, and they will be happily ignored.

I seriously doubt that. ..
The western Europeans have always looked down on the Russians with grand designs on invading Russia and ethnically cleansing the slavic people in a land grab for centuries. Napoleon and Hitler both tried it but it didn't work out.
Now the Globalists in the U.S. and EU have taken up the mantle of destroying Russia and ruling country.

 

[MagicMike]

Putin is a nationalist who is somewhat corrupted. He is wary of outsiders interfering with his nation. They helped to bring communism to Russia. The globalists that many of our politicians have sold out too.

Especially Trump.
Putin owns him.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not a theory.
Read up on the Minsk Agreement.
Also, some U.S. politicians from the Biden administration, right before the invasion, were assuring Zelensky they were diligently working behind the scenes to fast track Nato membership for Ukraine.
Putin knew this was going on.
Forcing him to launch a preemptive invasion before Ukraine was granted Nato membership.

The Minsk Agreement--actually there were two--did not address NATO at all as I recall but did help broker an uneasy peace between Russia and the Ukraine. At any rate Putin declared it null and void when he invaded the Ukraine last year. I believe Biden's talks with Zelensky re NATO membership happened after Putin had amassed a large force on the Russian/Ukranian border? I didn't look it up, but that is my best recollection. I know Putin claimed the Ukraine was moving artillery closer to the Russian border but am not certain of the sequence there.

 

[Couchpotato]

I get that

Outside influences in local elections

Even if i take the Guardian at face value it was nothing to compare to russian tanks grinding ukranian cities and humans into rubble

No one is making the assertion it is but the idea that Russia wasn’t threatened in some way by things like that is fantasy. Their response may not be appropriate but there isn’t much else they could do is there? If the Russians believe that a US/western influenced Ukraine is an existential threat they were running out of time before Ukraine joined NATO and made this type of action essentially impossible. I also assume the Russians assessed the west wouldn’t get nearly as involved as they have.

 

[Couchpotato]

All they have to do, to be ignored is stay in their country's borders without threatening anybody or invading, and they will be happily ignored. They were ignored after many foolishly thought, the Cold War was over, simply because the Soviet Union went out of business. Turns out, they just took time to regroup and extend timetables.

Just like the US righ?

 

[Delldude]

Especially Trump.
Putin owns him.