Young Israelis Resist Challenges to Settlements

[Gunny]

By ISABEL KERSHNER
Published: December 8, 2007

SHVUT AMI OUTPOST, West Bank — For two months, Jewish youths have been renovating an old stone house on this muddy hilltop in the northern West Bank. The house is not theirs, however. It belongs to a Palestinian family. And their seizure of it, along with the land around it, for a new settlement outpost is a violation of Israeli law. The police have evicted the group five times, but they keep coming back.

Yedidya Slonim, 16, one of the renovators here, who grew up in another West Bank settlement, Tzofim, said of the police: “We come back straight away, as soon as they’ve gone. They come every week for half a day. It doesn’t bother us so much.”

The cat-and-mouse contest here lays bare a key dilemma of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute: Israel has pledged that it will permit no new settlements in the territory it has occupied since the 1967 war, no more expropriation of Palestinian land and dismantle unauthorized outposts — like this one — erected since March 2001, but it has never applied the muscle needed to do so.

“Shvut Ami is a chronicle of failure of law enforcement,” said Michael Sfard, an Israeli lawyer who represents the Palestinian owners of the house on behalf of Yesh Din, an Israeli volunteer organization that fights for Palestinian rights. In this respect, he said, the area is “a jungle.”

So the settlers continue building a patchwork of communities to try to preclude the drawing of a border between Israel and a future Palestinian state. At the vanguard are the hilltop youth, teenagers like Yedidya, who work to complicate the demographic map ever more.

A settler organization called the Land of Israel Faithful has promised to set up seven more outposts over the eight-day Hanukkah holiday, which began Tuesday night — and to “strengthen” Shvut Ami.

more ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/08/w...f8ef0c5400bbb7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

This just stirs up shit. Israel needs to prosecute those people who refuse to obey the law; especially, where it pertains to the Israel-Palestine issue.

If they want to live in Palestine, let 'em. Revoke their citizenship and let them plead their cases to Hamas.

 

[Shogun]

agreed.

 

[maineman]

the same thing happened in the settlements when Israel gave up the Sinai. They'll make a scene.... the IDF will come in and drag them out.

 

[Gunny]

the same thing happened in the settlements when Israel gave up the Sinai. They'll make a scene.... the IDF will come in and drag them out.

Point is, any peace efforts on the part of Israel are being oversahdowed by crap such as this. Peace isn't a one-way street, and the idiots on both sides need to just cool their crap.

 

[jillian]

Point is, any peace efforts on the part of Israel are being oversahdowed by crap such as this. Peace isn't a one-way street, and the idiots on both sides need to just cool their crap.

At least Israel enforces its laws and kicks their butts...and rightfully so.

Now, what is it Hamas does to terrorists?

Unfortunately, BOTH stirs stuff up. Very sad, too.

 

[Gunny]

At least Israel enforces its laws and kicks their butts...and rightfully so.

Now, what is it Hamas does to terrorists?

Unfortunately, BOTH stirs stuff up. Very sad, too.

I think you know me well enough to know I'm by no means defending Hamas. It is just my opinion that these people are hurting any chance for peace with their ridiculous behavior.

Israelis are kinda like conservatives ... anything the fringe-element whackos do is pointed to and presented as the norm by the other side. Why give the enemy ammunition?

 

[jillian]

I think you know me well enough to know I'm by no means defending Hamas. It is just my opinion that these people are hurting any chance for peace with their ridiculous behavior.

Israelis are kinda like conservatives ... anything the fringe-element whackos do is pointed to and presented as the norm by the other side. Why give the enemy ammunition?

Wouldn't cross my mind to think you're defending Hamas. I was just pointing out that at least the force of govenment in Israel tries to keep things under control.

But, of course you're correct that these things hurt any chance for peace.

In terms of Israel, though, one has to wonder why the different standards required of its behavior.

 

[Gunny]

Wouldn't cross my mind to think you're defending Hamas. I was just pointing out that at least the force of govenment in Israel tries to keep things under control.

But, of course you're correct that these things hurt any chance for peace.

In terms of Israel, though, one has to wonder why the different standards required of its behavior.

Not to try and stir anything up, but why the different standards required of Republicans'/conservatives/' behavior?

You got me. Israel is repeatedly attacked and kicks everyone's asses and takes some strategically vital land, and THEY are the bad guys. Go figure.

After repeated peace offerings ... returning land, allowing Arabs to move into what is supposed to be Palestine ... they're STILL attacked, and still villified by the media.

It's cuz y'all "chews" are evil.

 

[jillian]

Not to try and stir anything up, but why the different standards required of Republicans'/conservatives/' behavior?

You got me. Israel is repeatedly attacked and kicks everyone's asses and takes some strategically vital land, and THEY are the bad guys. Go figure.

After repeated peace offerings ... returning land, allowing Arabs to move into what is supposed to be Palestine ... they're STILL attacked, and still villified by the media.

It's cuz y'all "chews" are evil.

I don't think there are different standards required of repubs/conservatives. I think there's too little acknowledgement by the right of how out of control the repubs were while they had the executive/legislative/judicial branches.

And yep... we suck. Just as WJ, he'll tell ya.

 

[Gunny]

I don't think there are different standards required of repubs/conservatives. I think there's too little acknowledgement by the right of how out of control the repubs were while they had the executive/legislative/judicial branches.

And yep... we suck. Just as WJ, he'll tell ya.

Out of control? You should try looking at it from the perspective of a conservative. Whatever YOU think they were out of control about, they were put in office by us to accomplish certain things. I don't see where they did squat except allow themselves to be intimidate by the minority party, and set up bureaucratic shop as usual.

Then there's the fact that if I hold a different set of ideals than you, perhaps what YOU think I should acknowledge is nonexistent to me?

On a serious note about Jews: Israel only exists at all because of Western antisemitism. Basically, Europe dumped it's problem on a worthless piece of land (that suddenly became valuable) rather than address it's own religious prejudices.

Otherwise there would have been no need to establish a separate homeland for a religion.

 

[Shogun]

Wouldn't cross my mind to think you're defending Hamas. I was just pointing out that at least the force of govenment in Israel tries to keep things under control.

But, of course you're correct that these things hurt any chance for peace.

In terms of Israel, though, one has to wonder why the different standards required of its behavior.

are we talking about nukes, aparthied, systematic racism? Indeed, one SURE DOES wonder why the different standards required of its behaviour.

It's really not necessary to bring up palestine every time an israeli acts like a shithead as if it justifies the behaviour. Further, the martyr routine might be convincing were it not the jews building walls, embedding ethnic requirments in a favoured class and TAKING land from non-jews still. Once Canaan, Always Canaan it seems.

 

[jillian]

are we talking about nukes, aparthied, systematic racism? Indeed, one SURE DOES wonder why the different standards required of its behaviour.

It's really not necessary to bring up palestine every time an israeli acts like a shithead as if it justifies the behaviour. Further, the martyr routine might be convincing were it not the jews building walls, embedding ethnic requirments in a favoured class and TAKING land from non-jews still. Once Canaan, Always Canaan it seems.

Talk to me when Arab countries allow me to live in them like Israel does its Arab citizens to whom it extends greater rights of citizenship than Arab nations give their own.

The entire "apartheid" argument is an out-and-out lie. It isn't deserving of a response. Also, let me know when you let someone into your house who intends to blow up you and your family.

 

[Shogun]

Talk to me when Arab countries allow me to live in them like Israel does its Arab citizens to whom it extends greater rights of citizenship than Arab nations give their own.

The entire "apartheid" argument is an out-and-out lie. It isn't deserving of a response. Also, let me know when you let someone into your house who intends to blow up you and your family.

What, as opposed to SQUATTING JEWS who ISRAEL has no intention of doing anything about unless it involves a fucking bulldozer and a palestinian shack?

Talk to me when your precious fucking israel isn't pushing for an ETHNIC MAJORITY like every other RACIST state. Hey, Germany just wanted THEIR master race too, right? Imagine whitey taking control of the US like the zionists in israel and tell me that joke about how muslims are ALLOWED to live in istael again. Hell, there are jews in fucking iran and you act like israel qualifies for sainthood because it ALLOWS non-jews to live there. whooptfuckingdo. Like I said, instead of rationalizing the modern Canaan routine of israel land acquisition why don't you hold your precious homeland to the same standard of the rest of the world instead of pretending that jewish favoratism in israel is NOT aparthied on par with whites doing the same fucking thing in south africa?


Israel's apartheid
Fed up with restrictions and discrimination, last month Israeli Arabs joined their Palestinian brethren in the battle against Israeli Jews.
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/11/03/israeli_arabs/index.html

An Arab Israeli pushes Israel's free-speech limit
For some, the banning of Bishara and another Arab Israeli lawmaker has intensified the question hovering over the country since 1948: Can Israel be both a democracy and a Jewish state?

Bishara, the only representative in the last Knesset of his Balad (Homeland) party, which was also banned, is certain the answer is no.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0103/p01s02-wome.htm

UN envoy hits Israel 'apartheid'
A UN human rights envoy has compared Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories to elements of apartheid.

The UN's Special Rapporteur, John Dugard, describes the regime as being designed to dominate and systematically oppress the occupied population.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6390755.stm


Olmert: Failure Will Sink Israel Into Apartheid
Olmert: Israel Risks South Africa-Like Struggle Without Peace Settlement
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3929618


Israel risks apartheid-like struggle if two-state solution fails, says Olmert
Israel's prime minister issued a rare warning yesterday that his nation risked being compared to apartheid-era South Africa if it failed to agree an independent state for the Palestinians. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Ehud Olmert said Israel was "finished" if it forced the Palestinians into a struggle for equal rights.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,2219485,00.html


I could go on and on and on and on... Hey, thank god jews are the maste, er, chosen race, Jillian.. Thankfully, they cannot sin, cannot act melovelently in any way that cannot be automatically justified by bringing up germans nazis or death camps and they're shit spells like warm fresh baked apple pie. Indeed, Jillian, thank the burning bush that what we call aparthied when whitey does it is merely protection when a jew does it.

Shit, what were OUR own racists thinking when moving to DESEGREGATE?!? Didn't they know that the WATTS RIOTS was good for at least another 10 years of ethnic marginalization of the entire population of black based on the actions of a few violent blacks? Hell, SURELY that's justification enough to ensure that AMERICA REMAINS WHITE just like israel is concerned with remaining JEWISH, right?

But hey, aparthied, squatting jews, bulldozers and second class rights are all only bad if gentiles do it! Ethnic cleansing GERMANS?!? no WAY! Ethnic cleansing jews?!? That's self defense! the Master Race needs a homeland, you know!

 

[jillian]

Thanks for all the lovely propaganda.

I know, it's only okay for Arabs to have their own countries.

 

[Shogun]

oh yea.. it's all propaganda if it drags jews down to the same level of humanity that the rest of us get to occupy. Master race, indeed.


When in doubt, scream propaganda. Have I qualified for the next step in this standard reaction to criticism of isreal yet?



and yes, jews deserve a homeland. But not paid for on the backs, blood and homeland of others. If israel were even HALF interested in peace we wouldn't see squatters FLAUNT their actions. But, when facing evidence of insurmountable proportions, then insist that SOMEONE is either feuling propaganda or merely hates jews. We see it when israel doesn't get the news it wants to hear about iran in order to sic their american attack dog on a muslim nation and we see it EVERY TIME israel deserves criticism for it's actions. It's the same shit. "well, the jews deserve a home", "Well, in this case it is defense", "well, jews are physically incapable of treating pals like the germans treated them" ad nauseum.


EVERY ONE OF THOSE SOURCES ARE NOT OUT TO PUSH PROPAGANDA. THE BBC IS NOT DAVIDDUKE.COM. CONVENIENT DENIAL IS SOMETHING THAT GERMAN CIVILIANS AND WORLDWIDE JEWS HAVE IN COMMON WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING THE OTHER WAY FOR THE SAKE OF THEIE "CHOSEN"/"MASTER" STATUS AND ETHNICALLY CLEAN HOMELAND.

 

[jillian]

Many countries in the Middle East were created by the victors of WWII. They had that right as victors. Your whining. however, isn't directed at the countries where royal families like the Sauds are ensconsed or at Iraq, which didn't exist as a country prior to WWII or any of the other Arab countries.

Let me know when I can legally go to Saudi Arabia or Iran without getting beheaded and we can have another chat.

If the Palestinians wanted a home, they could have had one a long time ago. But first they'd have to acknowledge the legitimacy of Israel, something they, and you, refuse to do.

You're so good on other issues. You really suck on this one.

 

[Shogun]

Saudia Arabia doesn't have an INDIGENOUS POPULATION being swept under a zionist rug, Jillian. Like I said above, your defensive reaction of bringing up muslim sins while trying to rationalize jewish sins doesn't validate the sins of israel.

Let ME know when a non-jew can ever become the PM of israel, though, since you want to strawman up the place.

If the JEWS wanted a home that wasn't handed to them by the west there would be no conflict with the pals, only whoever ELSE was carved out of the land that israel was created from. Indeed, let's pretend that jews are incapable of aparthied despite the evidence. Let's pretend that jews are simply INCAPABLE of ethnic marginalization despite evidence from global news sources.

I know, Jill. I'm just a great big ole jew hating antisemite by DARING to hold the master race down to the same standar that everyone else gets to live by. How EEEEEVIL of me. Which, by the way, i'm sure you won't have the slightest trouble convincing zionist christians of! Hell, if blond haired Germans could look away then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why YOU would look away now!

Thankfully, my standard of suckiness is higher than your standard of allowable evidence on this issue. If this is the amount of energy you put into rebuttal then you can save this award for your own keyboard. I've posted my evidence. I'll wait for you to reply with more than "nyuh huh, YOU suck".


I won't hold my breath though.. They don't call it standard reaction for nothing.



nationalized "superiority" complex.... check.
Laws differentiated according to Ethnicity.... check
Physical barriers herding a POPULATION of people due to the behaviour of few.... check

Yea, someone in the mid east is acting like nazi germany alright... but it isn't the target that israel would like to sic the US at that is doing so.

 

[jillian]

You said those things about yourself.. I didn't. But damn, if you aren't those things, why put "JEWS" in all caps like it's a curse.

And, yes, you're obsessed with seeing Israel not exist. So, yes, that would mean you hate the people who live there. You can admit that to yourself or not, as you wish.

And if you would get over the Israel-hatred for a moment, gee, who holds more sway over our foreign policy... Dubai and Saudi Arabia or Israel...

Now, try not to choke on the answer.

Laterz.

 

[Gunny]

Saudia Arabia doesn't have an INDIGENOUS POPULATION being swept under a zionist rug, Jillian. Like I said above, your defensive reaction of bringing up muslim sins while trying to rationalize jewish sins doesn't validate the sins of israel.

Let ME know when a non-jew can ever become the PM of israel, though, since you want to strawman up the place.

If the JEWS wanted a home that wasn't handed to them by the west there would be no conflict with the pals, only whoever ELSE was carved out of the land that israel was created from. Indeed, let's pretend that jews are incapable of aparthied despite the evidence. Let's pretend that jews are simply INCAPABLE of ethnic marginalization despite evidence from global news sources.

I know, Jill. I'm just a great big ole jew hating antisemite by DARING to hold the master race down to the same standar that everyone else gets to live by. How EEEEEVIL of me. Which, by the way, i'm sure you won't have the slightest trouble convincing zionist christians of! Hell, if blond haired Germans could look away then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why YOU would look away now!

Thankfully, my standard of suckiness is higher than your standard of allowable evidence on this issue. If this is the amount of energy you put into rebuttal then you can save this award for your own keyboard. I've posted my evidence. I'll wait for you to reply with more than "nyuh huh, YOU suck".


I won't hold my breath though.. They don't call it standard reaction for nothing.



nationalized "superiority" complex.... check.
Laws differentiated according to Ethnicity.... check
Physical barriers herding a POPULATION of people due to the behaviour of few.... check

Yea, someone in the mid east is acting like nazi germany alright... but it isn't the target that israel would like to sic the US at that is doing so.

The Jews didn't want a homeland handed to them by the West. The West wanted a carrot ot dangle in front of the Jews that would get them to leave the West.

The state of Israel is every bit as much a creation of Western prejudice as it is any desire Jews had for a homeland.

 

[Gunny]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...937A15757C0A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

I guess if "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" applied to them and those like them, there wouldn't be a need for Israel.