"You didn't get there on your own"

[The T]

Never trust the Left on taxes and
never trust the Left on spending estimates of gov't programs

Spending Program
Medicare Part A
What politicians said it would cost- $9 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $67 billion a year

Entire Medicare Program
What politicians said it would cost- $12 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $110 billion a year

Medicare relief to states for hospitals
What politicians said it would cost- $1 billion a year in 1992
What it actually cost- $17 billion a year



All the projections being used
Most are garbage just like Papa Obama care

ALL health care costs have gone up astronomically.

WHY have they gone up?

WHAT do we do about it??

Real market reforms
to start with and by no way all inclusive
-Competition across state lines
-tort reform CBO estimated it could save up to 54 billion

By all means get the gov't out as much as possible
All the things over the years by gov't
to "save us money" - have not

-Instead, they have increased the cost of doing business and
increase the economics of scale where a company has to be
larger and larger to deal with the additional burdens of gov't and
as such, more competition is driven out.

Quite often the gov't is the creator of the very problems
they claim they now want to fix- talk about job security

Imagine any tropical fruit on your morning breakfast table
say a banana - wasn't that expensive

Imagine if the gov't decided that everyone has to some share
of this fruit and as such the gov't was going to make sure
it got to our table

Honestly, do really believe the gov't would do it cheaper better
and with more quality ?

Guess what? Obama hired someone to the CBO [a donor to Obama and Democrat causes]...

CBO isn't 'Non Partisan'...

CBO hires Obamacare advocate to provide ‘objective’ health care budget numbers

 

[kaz]

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on market factors...PERIOD

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

 

[Listening]

Never trust the Left on taxes and
never trust the Left on spending estimates of gov't programs

Spending Program
Medicare Part A
What politicians said it would cost- $9 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $67 billion a year

Entire Medicare Program
What politicians said it would cost- $12 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $110 billion a year

Medicare relief to states for hospitals
What politicians said it would cost- $1 billion a year in 1992
What it actually cost- $17 billion a year



All the projections being used
Most are garbage just like Papa Obama care

And to be fair, we can't say that applies only to the Left in government. The CBO can only use the numbers and criteria furnished it by the Congress/President when it costs out something and gives us the projected consequences. And despite who was in power at the time, I cannot remember a single time that the government projections were even close to the actual costs, or when the actual costs were less than the projected costs.

The private businessman uses real figures to project his costs, and can't afford to make up numbers that look good on paper but have no chance to stand up against the realty of the program or project. If he budgets and sets the prices in the same way the government does, he is shut down and/or declaring bankruptcy pretty quickly.

That is why so many businessmen are sitting on their investment capital and are not willing to risk it in the current economy. They don't know what Obama is going to do re taxing the rich. They don't know what the consequences and costs of Obamacare are going to be. They have no assurance that a one-world-government minded Congress and a like minded President will not pass cap and trade and put them at the mercy of the whims of other countries who will not have their interests in mind.

Is Fearless Leader considering any of this? No way in hell. All he wants is more power in government and the best way to accomplish that is to strip power from private enterprise and do a lot more deficit spending.

Such utter bullshit. YOU are the one disparaging 'businessmen' by painting them as thumb-sucking, fear-filled, insecure wimps.

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on market factors...PERIOD. Supply/demand, the cost of money and their ability to meet those demands. Your argument is pure bullshit.

More of those facts and figures.....

Asswipe.

Reading your posts is like listening to James Carville.

Matters not what you are saying...you know there is snake oil involved somehow.

 

[Listening]

Never trust the Left on taxes and
never trust the Left on spending estimates of gov't programs

Spending Program
Medicare Part A
What politicians said it would cost- $9 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $67 billion a year

Entire Medicare Program
What politicians said it would cost- $12 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $110 billion a year

Medicare relief to states for hospitals
What politicians said it would cost- $1 billion a year in 1992
What it actually cost- $17 billion a year



All the projections being used
Most are garbage just like Papa Obama care

ALL health care costs have gone up astronomically.

WHY have they gone up?

WHAT do we do about it??

Fire all the insurance commissioners and let people buy insurance whereever they want.

BTW: My overall health care costs had come down.

But my HSA limit was just cut in half by Obamacare.

Thanks for raising the cost of my healthcare.

 

[Listening]

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on market factors...PERIOD

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

My company sure did.

33 billion top line.

Sat on investment dollars for 18 months trying to decide what to do.

When they broke some of it free...more was going offshore (originally planned for domestic) because of government policy.

A CEO of a refining company answered a question at a recent industry conference by asking "Why would anyone build a refinery in the U.S. given today's environment and the attractiveness and welcoming of offshore potential ?"

 

[thirdrail]

And it only resonates with the people who never had exposure to American free enterprise, the ones who embrace this are the losers, the slackers, the Mommy's basement resident, the feeble-minded who are convinced that they failed because America is so darn mean-spirited. It's not just an unAmerican attitude, it's anti-American

Alexander Hamilton (among the founding fathers), rallying support for the ratification of the US Constitution, wrote this about taxes:

"Thus far the ends of public happiness will be promoted by supplying the wants of government, and all beyond this is unworthy of our care or anxiety. How is it possible
that a government half supplied and always necessitous, can fulfill the purposes of its institution, can provide for the security, advance the prosperity, or support the
reputation of the commonwealth? How can it ever possess either energy or stability, dignity or credit, confidence at home or respectability abroad? How can its administration be any thing else than a succession of expedients temporizing, impotent, disgraceful? How will it be able to avoid a frequent sacrifice of its engagements to immediate necessity? How can it undertake or execute any liberal or enlarged plans of public good?"

Even those embodying the "invisible hand" of laissez-faire capitalism recognize the public good of freeing those in business from the dangers of fraud, breach of contract, safety from fire, protection from criminals (whether disenfranchised marauders, corporate thieves, or terrorists), etc. The founding fathers recognized how commerce would be enhanced by public infrastructure. Yes, these are all paid by taxes. Since they are therefore provided, businesses can be built.

This doesn't touch on the fact that most of modern businesses (which depend on computers, the internet, telecommunications, interstate roads, etc.) could not exist without the educated populace and government investments that gave rise to such tools (the list goes on).

I have owned and now run small businesses successfully. I've worked hard. I am reasonably clever. I asked for no handouts. However, I'm not so deluded to think that my success arose from my sheer efforts alone. I think those who believe so need a reality check.

So you've got a small business... and you don't pay any taxes? And your State and local governments don't provide any of the infrastructure?... it's all federal money?

Of course I pay taxes (fed, state and local), since I appreciate most of the services paid for by them.

Here's your problem... Even if we very generously tossed in every federal bureau or agency that could be viewed as having anything to do with supplying "the infrastructure", and that would include such things as the Department of Defense and the Department of Ed... we're still talking about less than 25% of federal spending.

I don't have anything like the problem you imply... I never said that infrastructure was all that is in the federal budget. I merely pointed out that it is "American" to use taxes to execute plans for the public good (which CrusaderFrank had denied).

Note too that this is the Classic Straw Man argument, whereby one projects a position onto his debate opponent that he doesn't even have. Republicans are NOT anarchists who don't believe people should have to pay taxes in order to live in a decent society. That wasn't the position of our Founders, let alone our Constitution. Our position is Limited Constitutional Government and Responsible Spending.

I know what a "straw man argument" is; it's what you have done here to me. I never said that republicans are anarchists who don't believe in paying taxes that promote a decent society.

But we've got an administration currently which doesn't even bother to give us a budget, won't bother to reform our runaway entitlements, and instead have given us a new, LARGER one. We're nearly 16 trillion in debt, paying nearly a half trillion just to service the debt annually, which will be a full trillion by the end of the decade on our current path.

Reagan introduced the "reform" of changing from a "tax and spend" federal government to a "borrow and spend" policy. We have been swallowed by mushrooming debt since (except during Clinton's term). As a proportion of GDP, the current rate of increase in the debt is on par with those of Reagan and both the Bushes (search "Federal Debt and GDP" and review the facts under usgovernmentspending, zfacts, etc.... i'm too much of a noob here to post a url). This fact may not be good, but it is NOT different.

WHY should even one citizen, no matter how filthy rich, be forced to provide another red cent to this reckless, irresponsible administration???

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

 

[Listening]

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

Thanks and rep on the way.

AMEN

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! The real problem is a housing crisis caused by stupid liberals who organized much of the federal governemnt to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

 

[Foxfyre]

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! The real problem is a housing crisis caused by stupid liberals who organized much of the federal governemnt to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

No they are right. The ability of government to manipulate the value of currency is its greatest means of controlling the people and the surest road to gradual eradication of our unalienable rights and individual liberties. The ability to print money and thereby deficit spend with impunity is a form of redistribution of wealth in the most destructive way possible.

 

[kaz]

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on market factors...PERIOD

REAL 'businessmen' decide to hire or expand based on ALL factors...PERIOD.

And you're talking to two business owners in Foxfyre and me. Clearly a rational business owner would consider every variable and government is a big one. And government is doing everything it can to bury us. It's only your ignorance that lets you believe otherwise.

My company sure did.

33 billion top line.

Sat on investment dollars for 18 months trying to decide what to do.

When they broke some of it free...more was going offshore (originally planned for domestic) because of government policy.

A CEO of a refining company answered a question at a recent industry conference by asking "Why would anyone build a refinery in the U.S. given today's environment and the attractiveness and welcoming of offshore potential ?"

Politicians are targeting our most profitable businesses and attacking our most successful people. Can you say Europe in the 30s? Then they can't figure out why our dollars are going and staying overseas. I hope the American people finally wake up from that idiocy and send Obama back to the Chicago political cesspool he belongs.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! The real problem is a housing crisis caused by stupid liberals who organized much of the federal governemnt to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

No they are right. The ability of government to manipulate the value of currency is its greatest means of controlling the people and the surest road to gradual eradication of our unalienable rights and individual liberties. The ability to print money and thereby deficit spend with impunity is a form of redistribution of wealth in the most destructive way possible.

Their subject was financialization, yours was currency manipulation.

But, the voting booth speaks only of Republican and Democrat. If you like sound money then you like Republicans more than Democrats.

If someone likes or dislikes financialization he is merely babbling.

 

[Foxfyre]

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! The real problem is a housing crisis caused by stupid liberals who organized much of the federal governemnt to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

No they are right. The ability of government to manipulate the value of currency is its greatest means of controlling the people and the surest road to gradual eradication of our unalienable rights and individual liberties. The ability to print money and thereby deficit spend with impunity is a form of redistribution of wealth in the most destructive way possible.

Their subject was financialization, yours was currency manipulation.

But, the voting booth speaks only of Republican and Democrat. If you like sound money then you like Republicans more than Democrats.

Okay, you are correct that these are two different things. . . .mostly.

 

[Bfgrn]

Never trust the Left on taxes and
never trust the Left on spending estimates of gov't programs

Spending Program
Medicare Part A
What politicians said it would cost- $9 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $67 billion a year

Entire Medicare Program
What politicians said it would cost- $12 billion a year by 1990
What it actually cost- $110 billion a year

Medicare relief to states for hospitals
What politicians said it would cost- $1 billion a year in 1992
What it actually cost- $17 billion a year



All the projections being used
Most are garbage just like Papa Obama care

ALL health care costs have gone up astronomically.

WHY have they gone up?

WHAT do we do about it??

Real market reforms
to start with and by no way all inclusive
-Competition across state lines
-tort reform CBO estimated it could save up to 54 billion

By all means get the gov't out as much as possible
All the things over the years by gov't
to "save us money" - have not

-Instead, they have increased the cost of doing business and
increase the economics of scale where a company has to be
larger and larger to deal with the additional burdens of gov't and
as such, more competition is driven out.

Quite often the gov't is the creator of the very problems
they claim they now want to fix- talk about job security

Imagine any tropical fruit on your morning breakfast table
say a banana - wasn't that expensive

Imagine if the gov't decided that everyone has to some share
of this fruit and as such the gov't was going to make sure
it got to our table

Honestly, do really believe the gov't would do it cheaper better
and with more quality ?

The Affordable Healthcare Act INCLUDES:
-Competition across state lines

Tort reform is:
A) a STATE issue, not a federal issue.

B) Tort reform in states like Texas has had little or no effect. It is a bullshit issue.

In 2003, Texas passed draconian tort reform legislation that effectively closed the courthouses of Texas to victims of medical malpractice. This legislation limited the amount of noneconomic damages (like pain and suffering) that could be collected by a victim of medical negligence. The goal of such measures was alleged to lower medical malpractice insurance premiums, encourage more doctors to practice in Texas, and lower overall healthcare costs. None of the stated goals were realized by this legislation.

C) Tort reform is the ultimate BIG government intervening into people's lives. And it undermines the court system and every citizen's right to a fair trial by his/her peers.

Government has done a much better job controlling rising health care costs than the private sector.

Medicare expenditures between 1970 and 2000 grew more slowly than those of the private sector. Initially, from 1965 through the 1980s, Medicare and private insurance costs doubled in tandem. Then Medicare tightened up, and per capita expenditures grew more slowly than private insurance, creating a significant gap. In the 1990s, private insurers got more serious about controlling their costs, and the gap narrowed. But by 2000, Medicare per capita expenditures remained significantly lower than the private sector.

WHO is overcharging the taxpayers?

High health care costs
Who's to blame?

Health-cost trends shows that these players, in roughly descending order, contributed the most to rising costs:

Hospitals and doctors. Doctors and hospitals account for by far the largest share, 52 percent in 2006, of all national health spending. There's abundant evidence that some of that spending is unnecessary. Under the present system, hospitals and doctors earn more money by doing costly interventions than by keeping people healthy. And more medical care doesn't necessarily mean better care, according to research on Medicare expenditures by the Dartmouth Medical School's Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice.

Drug companies. Prescription drugs account for only one-tenth of total health-care expenditures. But drug spending has increased as a share of overall expenditures over the past decade.

Insurance companies. Health-insurance premiums have grown faster than inflation or workers' earnings over the past decade, in parallel with the equally rapid rise in overall health costs. Industry spending on administrative and marketing costs, plus profits, consumes 12 percent of private-insurance premiums.

Politicians and government regulators. Although the government directly controls only 46 percent of national health spending, many of its policies affect the bottom line of the health-care industry, for example, by setting Medicare reimbursement rates for doctors on which private insurers base their rates, or by regulating health insurance. Between 1999 and 2006, the health-care lobby spent more than any other business sector, according to a study by the Institute for Health & Socio-Economic Policy, a nonprofit policy and research group.

Lawyers. Malpractice-insurance premiums and liability awards account for less than 2 percent of overall health-care spending, according to a 2004 study by the Congressional Budget Office. Defensive medicine, the practice of ordering extra tests or procedures to protect against lawsuits, might add another few percentage points, according to some estimates.

Health-care consumers.

Health-care security, who is to blame for high costs

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

.

Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. This gives the GOP an opening to say, "see, he hates business owners, we told you so."

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

you didn't get here ... on your own.

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

 

[thirdrail]

The real problem for all of us is that the institutions of the global banking system has financialized the world's dominant economies and both parties support that system that bankrupts us all.

too stupid but perfectly liberal!! The real problem is a housing crisis caused by stupid liberals who organized much of the federal governemnt to get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford.

i think you should search the definitions of "financialization" before you stupidly impugn those you don't understand. by the way, it was the unregulated banking industry that bundled up mortgages into derivatives in a way that was unsustainable (and therefore needed to be bailed out) that created the economic collapse we inherited from the Bush years. The "free market" (as it will always try to do) found the quickest way to imprudent, but large short-term profits.

 

[The T]

.

Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. This gives the GOP an opening to say, "see, he hates business owners, we told you so."

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

you didn't get here ... on your own.

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

.

Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. This gives the GOP an opening to say, "see, he hates business owners, we told you so."

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

you didn't get here ... on your own.

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

My bad, I guess romney wasn't first

Romney to Olympians: 'You didn't get here solely on your own' - First Read

Was just copying off the President then.

 

[Listening]

.

Obama is taking an interesting and dangerous approach on the campaign trail, telling successful business owners that they "didn't get there on their own", that their success is predicated in part on the labor and efforts (and taxes) of others. This gives the GOP an opening to say, "see, he hates business owners, we told you so."

That's actually was a Romney quote before an Obama quote

you didn't get here ... on your own.

He was talking about Olympians. He obviously thinks that athletes don't deserve credit for their success.

BULLSHIT ^^ 100%

Keep trying Ooh pah...but you'll never get there.

Obama fucked UP telling the people who he really IS and YOU know it.

What gets me is that he is running from it.

This is clearly his place and yet he hides from it.

Recall the effort to tamp down the "spread the wealth" comment.

I'd like the guy better and trust him (still would not vote for him) if he wasn't such a liar.

He's a collectivist but he won't admit it.

I don't think collectivists are evil...I just don't want them running things.

I do think BHO is a fraud.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I do think BHO is a fraud.

Liar is a good word too! When he was asked about why he voted to the left of Bernie Sanders, an open socialist, he said, "that's just me resisting George Bush."

What he would have said if honesty mattered was, "that's just me doing what my 2 communist parents taught me to do."

 

[Bfgrn]

For all you 'so called' small businessmen/women. One of the biggest handicaps small business has in regards to health care costs is that they don't get the price breaks large corporations get. The Affordable Care Act addresses that disadvantage:


Small Businesses and the Affordable Care Act

You know the value of providing health insurance to your employees. But it can be a real challenge for small businesses. On average, small businesses pay about 18% more than large firms for the same health insurance policy. And small businesses lack the purchasing power that larger employers have. The health care law provides tax credits and soon - the ability to shop for insurance in Exchanges that help close this gap.

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

• If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

• Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

• Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

• In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

• Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

• Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries says the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.