"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of pros

[daveman]

You can not have a prosperous society by letting the rich run roughshod over people through exploitation and oppression.

Was BP exploiting natural resources that belong to us all? You betcha.

Then go get your own oil.

Was Wall Street exploiting lax rules of credit to bundle securities in a way to hide worthless assets to collect commissions on junk? You betcha.

It is pretty simple about legislation. Behave yourself and be responsible to not only your company but your neighbors. You do not exist in a vacuum. If you heed that no new legislation will come.

Which particular The Man is keeping you down?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is the beginning of the end of any nation.
You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."

Adrian Rogers, 1931

Gee.....someone wants to get all "John Wayne" (no doubt, a "conservative")....

.....during The Depression!!!!!

Whatta shocker.



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6whSWn1RRM[/ame]​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Yeah.....just as I figured (after reading all replies...to this point).

We've got some serious History Majors, here.....especially all o' The Teabaggers, who always claim to have such unique historical-perspective.



[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpfY8kh5lUw[/ame]​

 

[jillian]

annie you don't believe i'm 175 ?............ rats...
i have never, even onece heard the president speaker etc... mention poor people, why is that ?? what would papercan lincoln be today ?

i think you mean jillian. lol.. but no, i'm thinking you're not 175. but if you are, i'd like to know your secret for longevity. I didn't mention "poor people" either. I'm talking about the constant drumbeat of the corporatists that government should do nothing to protect society, in general, from unfettered corporate action.

i think lincoln would have rejected the republican's southern strategy. and do you really think he'd be part of a party that panders to members who hate centralized government and do the whole 'states' rights' rant?what do you think he'd be today? he sure wouldn't be an i hate government type.

sorry j. crosshtread...it's true i'm not 175. the rest of your post is crap

if you are refering to #10 well yeah, he admired the constitution. we're not talking about hating government, only making it smaller and not the babysitter. obama really twisted linc's quote to serve his own socialistic agenda. i think that's disingenuous, that's all

not crap at all hon. and the right's idea of "making government smaller" (something it was never concerned with for the eight years that bush grew government) is to take away anything that benefits people and leave what beneifts politicians and corporations. i'm not quite sure how that's, in any way shape or form, what government is supposed to do.

everyone uses quotes the way they choose. reagan did that all the time... all the time. he even tried to make springsteen's BITUSA some jingoistic cheer. (bruce didn't like that very much).

as for everything else i said... think about it. nixon, lincoln... wouldn't even get past your primaries.

and the last president who "made government smaller" and balanced the budget was Clinton.

 

[washamericom]

i think you mean jillian. lol.. but no, i'm thinking you're not 175. but if you are, i'd like to know your secret for longevity. I didn't mention "poor people" either. I'm talking about the constant drumbeat of the corporatists that government should do nothing to protect society, in general, from unfettered corporate action.

i think lincoln would have rejected the republican's southern strategy. and do you really think he'd be part of a party that panders to members who hate centralized government and do the whole 'states' rights' rant?what do you think he'd be today? he sure wouldn't be an i hate government type.

sorry j. crosshtread...it's true i'm not 175. the rest of your post is crap

if you are refering to #10 well yeah, he admired the constitution. we're not talking about hating government, only making it smaller and not the babysitter. obama really twisted linc's quote to serve his own socialistic agenda. i think that's disingenuous, that's all

not crap at all hon. and the right's idea of "making government smaller" (something it was never concerned with for the eight years that bush grew government) is to take away anything that benefits people and leave what beneifts politicians and corporations. i'm not quite sure how that's, in any way shape or form, what government is supposed to do.

everyone uses quotes the way they choose. reagan did that all the time... all the time. he even tried to make springsteen's BITUSA some jingoistic cheer. (bruce didn't like that very much).

as for everything else i said... think about it. nixon, lincoln... wouldn't even get past your primaries.

and the last president who "made government smaller" and balanced the budget was Clinton.

jillian called me hon... awesome !!! cut right to the chase


"is to take away anything that benefits people and leave what beneifts politicians and corporations". is conjecture

lincoln never thought the state should take care of the people.
he was no more of a socialist than william bradford was.
clinton "balanced the budget with tremendous proceeds from the it boom" (went to social security), clinton got lucky... bush got 911... unemployment for both presidencies about the same. balanced bugdet is just code for higher taxes... like net profit is to bookkeeping.





On Wednesday during a speech in Parma, Ohio, President Obama decided to quote a former President to help justify his policy initiatives:

“But in the words of the first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, I also believe that government should do for the people what they cannot do better for themselves”.

I assume he was paraphrasing this actual quote from President Lincoln, but unfortunately he left out the most important part:

“The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves in their separate, and individual capacities. In all that the people can individually do as well for themselves, government ought not to interfere.”

Obama doesn’t get it. And he clearly doesn’t get Abraham Lincoln.



]corporatists that government should do nothing to protect [/B]society, in general, from unfettered corporate action.

what about jefferson's commerce set at perfect liberty?

and i think you have a "tude" against corporations... the financial backbone of america

 

[Avatar4321]

i knew abe lincoln ..... abe lincoln was a friend of mine, barrak obama, you are no abe lincoln...

well, no... but then again, Abe Lincoln wouldn't be a republican now.

but to the "point" of the thread... the middle class doesn't exist without protection and a society where businesses are unfettered looks like Dickens' England.

Or should we go back to the days of sweat shops so as not to somehow offend corporatists?

right... because we all know how Abraham Lincoln loved enslaving people to government

 

[asterism]

i knew abe lincoln ..... abe lincoln was a friend of mine, barrak obama, you are no abe lincoln...

well, no... but then again, Abe Lincoln wouldn't be a republican now.

but to the "point" of the thread... the middle class doesn't exist without protection and a society where businesses are unfettered looks like Dickens' England.

Or should we go back to the days of sweat shops so as not to somehow offend corporatists?

Why is it all or nothing? Why is any resistance of more government control today so often done by suggesting we want to return to a worse time?

 

[asterism]

Just how big again is Switzerland's military,and their role in being a super power? Can you count on their armed forces to be ready in case some wacko with nuclear weapons gets a little crazy.You are wishing we had this utopia where we are all the same and the streets are paved with gold.I'm sorry you have to work hard in life,if your answer is more and bigger government how bout you and all your friends contact your representatives in government and ask them to cut back on spending for 5 minutes.

Military budgets aren't really the topic of this thread, but if you want to talk spending cuts, then the US's military annual budget (which is more than all other countries combined) is a perfect place to start.

Thanks, but there's no need to apologize for me having to work hard. I made a conscious choice to pursue a career based on passion rather than one based on income. It made life challenging for a number of years, but now I'm fortunate enough to have worked myself in to a more comfortable position in life...and have actually ended up doing financially better than many of my friends who have more traditional jobs. So now I am perfectly happy to contribute my fair share back in to the system so that others who work hard and struggle can live a little easier and have the same opportunities that I had.

I also never mentioned anything about wishing for a utopia where we are all the same, having streets paved of gold, or saying that we needed more or bigger government. The current system heavily benefits mega corporations and the super rich at the expense of other hard working people. My comments were merely to give some perspective to the quote...and this is really just about needing some basic regulation to manage corruption, prevent future systemic danger, and bring about fairness, health, and prosperity.

Since you're so perfectly happy to contribute, http://pay.gov

Knock yourself out.

 

[Nosmo King]

The great redistribution of wealth has been happening under the aegis of Trickle Down economics. The top 10% of the wealth own more than 70% of the wealth while the bottom 90% own only 30%.

How many Conservative/Tea party types are living the dream of the top 10%?

And then that top 10% cries "Don't raise our taxes! Start a "Fair Tax" so that bottom 90% pays for us!"

It's perverse!

 

[boedicca]

Warren Buffet is in a higher tax bracket than his secretary, but even he doesn't think it's right that he ends up paying a lower net tax (after write-offs and such) rate than she does. I hardly think making him pay a more equal percentage would put him out of wealth and her in to prosperity.

This Warren Buffet MEME is a misleading CANARD.

Buffet has shielded the vast majority of his wealth from taxation - and has targeted it for donation to the GATES FOUNDATION when he dies. If he really believed that the government used such wealth and income more effectively than a private party, he would not avoid inheritance taxes on his billions. The same comment applies to the Gates Family.

Buffet would only have credibility if he had advocated for higher taxes when he himself was earning an income at the starting level for such taxes. As he didn't, he's a hypocrite.

He has his - and wishes to deny others the opportunity to succeed.

 

[Full-Auto]

i think you mean jillian. lol.. but no, i'm thinking you're not 175. but if you are, i'd like to know your secret for longevity. I didn't mention "poor people" either. I'm talking about the constant drumbeat of the corporatists that government should do nothing to protect society, in general, from unfettered corporate action.

i think lincoln would have rejected the republican's southern strategy. and do you really think he'd be part of a party that panders to members who hate centralized government and do the whole 'states' rights' rant?what do you think he'd be today? he sure wouldn't be an i hate government type.

sorry j. crosshtread...it's true i'm not 175. the rest of your post is crap

if you are refering to #10 well yeah, he admired the constitution. we're not talking about hating government, only making it smaller and not the babysitter. obama really twisted linc's quote to serve his own socialistic agenda. i think that's disingenuous, that's all

not crap at all hon. and the right's idea of "making government smaller" (something it was never concerned with for the eight years that bush grew government) is to take away anything that benefits people and leave what beneifts politicians and corporations. i'm not quite sure how that's, in any way shape or form, what government is supposed to do.

everyone uses quotes the way they choose. reagan did that all the time... all the time. he even tried to make springsteen's BITUSA some jingoistic cheer. (bruce didn't like that very much).

as for everything else i said... think about it. nixon, lincoln... wouldn't even get past your primaries.

and the last president who "made government smaller" and balanced the budget was Clinton.

You have had complete control, what happened to those balanced budgets that didnt have all the costs on the books?

 

[boedicca]

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

A search engine is our friend. If you are going to call something bullshit, do some diligence first to see if it is so.

The quote is actually from William J. Boetcker, but that doesn't change the validity its meaning.

 

[washamericom]

and then there is the lincolm qoute that our president tried to make his own (from washamericom)

if you're going to quote lincoln, try to get it right... in his greatest speech since the great depression, obama quoted abe lincoln at the coons rally in delaware... he said

"government should do for the people what they can't do for themselves" ....... not so much...

here's what the first republican president lincoln actually said:

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away men's initiative and independence.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves."



i knew abe lincoln ..... abe lincoln was a friend of mine, barrak obama, you are no abe lincoln...

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...[/




Abraham Lincoln quotes


like i said, i was there when he said it... back then i suppose it was right wing bs

you bring wikipedia ?? that's written by liberal idealists off the street.

 

[Bfgrn]

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

A search engine is our friend. If you are going to call something bullshit, do some diligence first to see if it is so.

The quote is actually from William J. Boetcker, but that doesn't change the validity its meaning.

Yes it DOES change the validity of it's meaning.

Main Entry: valid
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: right, genuine

 

[Bfgrn]

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...[/




Abraham Lincoln quotes


like i said, i was there when he said it... back then i suppose it was right wing bs

you bring wikipedia ?? that's written by liberal idealists off the street.

William J. H. Boetcker Quotes - The Quotations Page

The Ten "You Cannots" Abraham Lincoln Did Not Say

 

[boedicca]

You need to provide a link that Abe Lincoln said any of those things...I say it's right wing bullshit...


"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln

A search engine is our friend. If you are going to call something bullshit, do some diligence first to see if it is so.

The quote is actually from William J. Boetcker, but that doesn't change the validity its meaning.

Yes it DOES change the validity of it's meaning.

Main Entry: valid
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: right, genuine

This quote is quite often mistakenly attributed to Lincoln.

A person using it believes the sentiments. The values in the quote are valid regardless of the source.

 

[Ava]

You can't help the poor by being one of them.

And you can't employ anyone if you are poor....

 

[washamericom]

sorry j. crosshtread...it's true i'm not 175. the rest of your post is crap

if you are refering to #10 well yeah, he admired the constitution. we're not talking about hating government, only making it smaller and not the babysitter. obama really twisted linc's quote to serve his own socialistic agenda. i think that's disingenuous, that's all

not crap at all hon. and the right's idea of "making government smaller" (something it was never concerned with for the eight years that bush grew government) is to take away anything that benefits people and leave what beneifts politicians and corporations. i'm not quite sure how that's, in any way shape or form, what government is supposed to do.

everyone uses quotes the way they choose. reagan did that all the time... all the time. he even tried to make springsteen's BITUSA some jingoistic cheer. (bruce didn't like that very much).

as for everything else i said... think about it. nixon, lincoln... wouldn't even get past your primaries.

and the last president who "made government smaller" and balanced the budget was Clinton.

You have had complete control, what happened to those balanced budgets that didnt have all the costs on the books?

poof !

 

[Mr. Shaman]

You can't help the poor by being one of them.

And you can't employ anyone if you are poor....

Yeah.....we only have to wait until The Rich are finished GORGING THEMSELVES!!!​

 

[rightwinger]

Once again, the right wing takes everything to the absurd extremes. Nobody is confiscating the wealth of the rich and giving it to the poor. Yes, you are right. There is a redistribution of wealth going on. It is removing wealth from the working class and giving it to the wealthy.

Guess what? Nobody came to the working class and confiscated their bank accounts. It was done slowly and methodically as wages did not keep up with the cost of living, housing prices skyrocketed, education costs skyrocketed, the cost of healthcare went through the roof. The working class was told to sacrifice and work harder. So they did, they put in more hours for a lower standard of living and the rich got richer

Workers were told that if we only cut taxes on the wealthy (the people who give them jobs) that this money would actually "trickle down" in the form of more jobs, higher wages and a surging economy. Guess what happend to the money? The rich just kept it