You can build wealth without owning a home.

[progressive hunter]

Why did you wait until now to give this advice? When Biden was president all you ever did was cry about how expensive homes were. Now that Trump is president, you don't actually want to bring the prices of homes down now do you? And you don't want landlords to charge lower rent. You just said it. The low cost of renting leaves you money to invest. So renters are doing just fine?

Man how fast you have flip flopped.

hey dumbass,,

he said this before trump won the election,,

 

[sealybobo]

hey dumbass,,

he said this before trump won the election,,

Oops. My bad.

 

[progressive hunter]

Oops. My bad.

its expected from you,,

 

[Woodznutz]

Why did you wait until now to give this advice? When Biden was president all you ever did was cry about how expensive homes were. Now that Trump is president, you don't actually want to bring the prices of homes down now do you? And you don't want landlords to charge lower rent. You just said it. The low cost of renting leaves you money to invest. So renters are doing just fine?

Man how fast you have flip flopped.

I qualified renting as sharing rents with others. A great way to save up for the down payment on a house. I bought my first property that way. If I had lived alone it would have taken me years to save up what I saved in just months.

 

[ReinyDays]

its expected from you,,

How graceful ...

 

[sealybobo]

My brother found wealth ... and promptly married her ...

Actually I was wrong. He started this thread before the election.

I'm calling bullshit on this argument. It can't be smart to piss away whatever rent is every month, just because a mortgage is too expensive. That has to be a bad argument. First, a lot of times your mortgage is lower than rent. At least it should be if interest rates are low and you put a good down payment down. I started with a 30 year mortgage and when the time was right, I refinanced to a 15 year and my payment was even less than the 30 year mortgage.

So all those years when I was paying off my mortgage, the value of my home went up. I paid $50K it's worth $250K now 20 years later. Show me an investment where you put $50 in and 20 years later you have $250K.

So anyways, first you have to pay RENT to someone else. If what this idiot is saying were true, why would anyone be a landlord? Clearly he's charging more rent than his mortgage is.

It's just a stupid bad argument.

Also, now 20 years later, my place is paid off. No more MORTGAGE or rent. That's gotta be worth a lot. Now I can take ALL my money from here on out and save it. While these idiots are paying rent for the rest of their lives.

 

[sealybobo]

I qualified renting as sharing rents with others. A great way to save up for the down payment on a house. I bought my first property that way. If I had lived alone it would have taken me years to save up what I saved in just months.

I was going to rent with 3 of my friends. On a lake. Would have been fun as hell. My parents said "nonsense, you are going to live here and save up for a place".

I was saving up for a $150K home in the 90's. I found a $50K condo on the lake instead. Those homes are now worth $250K. My condo on the lake is worth $200K. I say I made the right choice. PLUS my taxes are low.

I forgot about that. If you rent for 30 years, rent goes up. If you have a 30 year mortgage, in 20 years you are still going to have that low mortgage. But a renters rent goes up when the landlord says.

 

[ReinyDays]

I qualified renting as sharing rents with others. A great way to save up for the down payment on a house. I bought my first property that way. If I had lived alone it would have taken me years to save up what I saved in just months.

I bought my first property on a rent-to-own deal ... I was to install a second bathroom as a down payment ... as soon as the City approved for use, we solidified the transfer ... later I did re-wire the whole place and installed a new kitchen, with a permit of course ... and sold for double the price I paid in just five years ... the new owner liked the file down at county seat with all the permits done ...

I charged the guy $5,000 to buy my second property ... 16 rental units ... what a mess ... a commercial carpenter's nightmare at every turn ...

Just one story:

Spoiler

The eave board was getting a bit long in tooth ... a 2x6 that had the raingutters nailed to it ... my internet cohort at the time teased me about "carpenter's nightmare", once the one board is off, I'll find three more than need replacement ...

HA ...

I had twenty feet of 4x8 beams pushing the roof rafters up a couple of inches because the entire wall had to come out down to the foundation !!! ... Everything was rotten below the drip line ... poor tenants had to live through all this while paying full rent ...

Expected and budgeted for ... great weather, fun work ... all the money I spent was recovered in just five years of added rent ... poor tenants got their rent raised right after ... I made them pay for it all ... too funny ...

 

[ReinyDays]

Also, now 20 years later, my place is paid off. No more MORTGAGE or rent. That's gotta be worth a lot. Now I can take ALL my money from here on out and save it. While these idiots are paying rent for the rest of their lives.

The downside is we're tied down now ... free rent but we can't just pack up and leave ...

No insurance ... HA HA HA HA HA HA ... go ahead and skyrocket the premiums ... I can drop coverage ... renters will never get that break ... ever ... and I can turn the upstairs into a marijuana factory ... no one can say I can't ... except the Federales I suppose ...

 

[Woodznutz]

Show me an investment where you put $50 in and 20 years later you have $250K.

Show me how many people are able to save up $50-$75,000 for the down payment today.

But you don't have $250K once you subtract your costs. How much was paid in interest, property taxes, major repairs or replacements, or remodeling?

I was going to rent with 3 of my friends. On a lake. Would have been fun as hell. My parents said "nonsense, you are going to live here and save up for a place".

I was saving up for a $150K home in the 90's. I found a $50K condo on the lake instead. Those homes are now worth $250K. My condo on the lake is worth $200K. I say I made the right choice. PLUS my taxes are low.

I forgot about that. If you rent for 30 years, rent goes up. If you have a 30 year mortgage, in 20 years you are still going to have that low mortgage. But a renters rent goes up when the landlord says.

Let's look at a 30-year mortgage example.

"On a 30-year $200,000 mortgage with a 7.00% fixed interest rate, plan to pay around $279,018 in interest over the life of your loan."

Add to that all the other costs of home ownership.

More if you borrow the accumulated equity (second mortgage) as many do. Many use home equity for other things, kids' college costs for example. My in-laws borrowed every time their home value went up. They finally lost it in a bad business deal that used their remaining equity as collateral.

The thing about renting is that you pay for only the space that you need. Costs of interest, taxes, utilities, repairs, etc. are divided by the number of apartment units in the complex.

 

[ReinyDays]

But you don't have $250K once you subtract your costs. How much was paid in interest, property taxes, major repairs or replacements, or remodeling?

WHOA ... do you think landlords pay all that out of the goodness of their hearts? ...

I never paid for any of that ... tenants did ... through rent ... plus margins ...

 

[Woodznutz]

Show me an investment where you put $50 in and 20 years later you have $250K.

Show me how many people are able to save up $50-$75,000 for the down payment today. Carried to full term of 30 years one would have paid (checking the number) in interest on a $200,000 mortgage.

But you don't have $250K once you subtract your costs. How much was paid in interest, property taxes, major repairs or replacements, or remodeling?

Consider this.

"On a 30-year $200,000 mortgage with a 7.00% fixed interest rate, plan to pay around $279,018 in interest over the life of your loan.

Actually I was wrong. He started this thread before the election.

I'm calling bullshit on this argument. It can't be smart to piss away whatever rent is every month, just because a mortgage is too expensive. That has to be a bad argument. First, a lot of times your mortgage is lower than rent. At least it should be if interest rates are low and you put a good down payment down. I started with a 30 year mortgage and when the time was right, I refinanced to a 15 year and my payment was even less than the 30 year mortgage.

So all those years when I was paying off my mortgage, the value of my home went up. I paid $50K it's worth $250K now 20 years later. Show me an investment where you put $50 in and 20 years later you have $250K.

So anyways, first you have to pay RENT to someone else. If what this idiot is saying were true, why would anyone be a landlord? Clearly he's charging more rent than his mortgage is.

It's just a stupid bad argument.

Also, now 20 years later, my place is paid off. No more MORTGAGE or rent. That's gotta be worth a lot. Now I can take ALL my money from here on out and save it. While these idiots are paying rent for the rest of their lives.

So, what you are saying is "Woodznutz's argument is BS because I..."

 

[Woodznutz]

WHOA ... do you think landlords pay all that out of the goodness of their hearts? ...

I never paid for any of that ... tenants did ... through rent ... plus margins ...

Referring to a home, not an apartment building.

Today's numbers for either have gone completely off the rails.

 

[sealybobo]

Show me how many people are able to save up $50-$75,000 for the down payment today.

But you don't have $250K once you subtract your costs. How much was paid in interest, property taxes, major repairs or replacements, or remodeling?


Let's look at a 30-year mortgage example.

"On a 30-year $200,000 mortgage with a 7.00% fixed interest rate, plan to pay around $279,018 in interest over the life of your loan."

Add to that all the other costs of home ownership.

More if you borrow the accumulated equity (second mortgage) as many do. Many use home equity for other things, kids' college costs for example. My in-laws borrowed every time their home value went up. They finally lost it in a bad business deal that used their remaining equity as collateral.

The thing about renting is that you pay for only the space that you need. Costs of interest, taxes, utilities, repairs, etc. are divided by the number of apartment units in the complex.

You are probably/maybe right if you don't put 20% down, pay that insurance you have to pay if you don't put 20% down, lawn mowers, water bills, taxes, home improvements, etc. I see your point. And if you don't refinance to a 15 year when interest rates drop. I have to admit, even making almost $100K and no kids, I wouldn't want to pay the taxes on a real home. I bought my condo for $50k so my taxes and mortgage were low. I just pay my $150 a month condo dues for snow and water and roof repairs.

But my dad bought his home for $50K in the late 70's. 20% interest because of inflation and recession. He paid off his home in 5 years. Put all his money into paying off the home early.

I try to tell my dad that when he dies, we should rent his place out for $3000 a month. He says "why would anyone who can pay that monthly rent not buy their own home?"

Can you answer him? I tell him they can't come up with the down payment. Or they have bad credit. They walked away from a mortgage and can't get one. You're saying some people choose to rent and they actually save more by renting?

 

[Woodznutz]

You are probably/maybe right if you don't put 20% down, pay that insurance you have to pay if you don't put 20% down, lawn mowers, water bills, taxes, home improvements, etc. I see your point. And if you don't refinance to a 15 year when interest rates drop. I have to admit, even making almost $100K and no kids, I wouldn't want to pay the taxes on a real home. I bought my condo for $50k so my taxes and mortgage were low. I just pay my $150 a month condo dues for snow and water and roof repairs.

You're saying some people choose to rent and they actually save more by renting?

Depend on the market/city you live in. There are cities that lose population each year. Houses are cheap, rent even cheaper. Here are some numbers to consider.

• The median mortgage payment, as of August 2024, was $2,617/month, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association. This does not include other costs of ownership. Mortgage interest alone is $2100/month at 6 percent interest.

The median home price was $420,000. Property taxes (at 2 percent of value) would be $700/month (added to mortgage payment/escrowed).

In my high-priced city you can rent a three-bedroom apartment for about the same price, utilities included. Divide rent by three roommates = $872/month per person. No other costs.

 

[sealybobo]

Depend on the market/city you live in. There are cities that lose population each year. Houses are cheap, rent even cheaper.

When the Lincoln Ford plant left our town I told my dad to sell his home and move out because that was the backbone of the community. But we have a lot of manufacturing in the area even with them gone. Thank God. Thank God we didn't die like Flint, Saginaw and Detroit.

Yea, his home went from $50k in the 70's to $150 in the 90s to $250K today but it could have went the other way. Still could. I never thought housing was going to come back after the crash but boy did it quickly.

 

[Woodznutz]

When the Lincoln Ford plant left our town I told my dad to sell his home and move out because that was the backbone of the community. But we have a lot of manufacturing in the area even with them gone. Thank God. Thank God we didn't die like Flint, Saginaw and Detroit.

Yea, his home went from $50k in the 70's to $150 in the 90s to $250K today but it could have went the other way. Still could. I never thought housing was going to come back after the crash but boy did it quickly.

Such cities might see a revival as many workers in large metro areas can't afford to live there. Industries might return some business or manufacturing to these cities, reviving them. This would be big win on a national scale.

 

[ReinyDays]

Referring to a home, not an apartment building.

Today's numbers for either have gone completely off the rails.

That doesn't matter ... if you rent a home, you're paying taxes, insurance, maintenance, repairs ... that's all included in rent ... what kind of landlord were you? ...

Things went off the rails August 29th, 2005 ...

 

[Dante]

Home ownership is expensive, much more than renting. Of course, there are many benefits of home ownership but there are better ways to build wealth. Just save and invest the difference between owning and renting and watch your fortune grow. It will grow faster if you're single as you can share space with others and save even more.

Home ownership is sold as a panacea for the masses. It's a horrible myth

 

[Woodznutz]

Home ownership is sold as a panacea for the masses. It's a horrible myth

The nuclear family and home ownership are the foundation of a sound society. Sadly, both are endangered.