You anti gunners need a constitutional lesson

[bigrebnc1775]

My right not to get shot by some deranged loon. You can defend your home with a handgun and you don't need to carry it around town.

If you don't want to get shot exercise your right buy a gun and train with it. And change your way of thinking by maintaining situation awareness.

 

[multivita-man]

Shrugs bugs if you don't care enough to protect them I don't give a fuck about your flux whining.

Yeah, a 9mm in every grade schooler's backpack. That's civilization. I'm sure that's what Ben Franklin had in mind when he envisioned the American nation.

Gee, other countries don't seem to have this schoolyard carnage. Wonder why...

 

[multivita-man]

If you don't want to get shot exercise your right buy a gun and train with it. And change your way of thinking by maintaining situation awareness.

On this, you and I agree: situational awareness is a thing. And it's practicing situational awareness that convinced me I don't really need a gun after all, and why I've not really felt the need to have one since I sold my pistol years ago. I can usually avoid problems by just knowing how to avoid danger (most of the time). Sure I could get mugged and shot at gunpoint but that can happen whether I own a gun or not.

I'm certainly not out to persuade you or anyone else to give up your guns and I basically do believe in the right of home defense - I go back and forth on guns in glove boxes, seeing the pros and cons on both sides. I believe there is a fundamental, basic right for law-abiding people to possess firearms if they're not messing with anyone.

But - and I say this respectfully - I don't agree on the degree to which the 2A protects gun rights. We actually had a pretty good balance for decades until the Court began mucking it up in recent years. Shit, I was even OK with the Heller decision, but the Court since 2010 has gone off the rails. I do not agree at all with the Scalia/Thomas/Roberts/Alito/Federalist All-Star Team's rendering of the Constitution and gun rights. And I think - I know - we'd be a lot better off with a lot tighter controls on guns.

 

[2aguy]

If Roe was ‘wrongly decided,’ then Heller might someday likewise be ruled to be wrongly decided.

Conservatives will have only themselves to blame if Heller is one day overturned, as it was this activist conservative Court that abandoned respecting settled, accepted precedent.Bad things happen. A lot less bad things would happen if it wasn't easier for an 19-year-old nutjob or a convicted felon to get an AR-15 than a beer.

We'd be a lot safer if we stopped trying to be a nation of fake cowboys and just acted like civilized people.

Too much to ask for a nation addicted to white supremacy and violence I guess.

This isn’t a racist country……you guys may be racists but that’s on you……the violence is now driven by the policies of the democrat party.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah, a 9mm in every grade schooler's backpack. That's civilization. I'm sure that's what Ben Franklin had in mind when he envisioned the American nation.

Gee, other countries don't seem to have this schoolyard carnage. Wonder why...

Because their governments slaughter their civillians…..Europe took guns away from their peoples and then murdered 15 million of them….

That number, by the way, is more than 246 years of gun murder in the United States……

Governments murder more people than criminals do and you guys worship government

 

[2aguy]

On this, you and I agree: situational awareness is a thing. And it's practicing situational awareness that convinced me I don't really need a gun after all, and why I've not really felt the need to have one since I sold my pistol years ago. I can usually avoid problems by just knowing how to avoid danger (most of the time). Sure I could get mugged and shot at gunpoint but that can happen whether I own a gun or not.

I'm certainly not out to persuade you or anyone else to give up your guns and I basically do believe in the right of home defense - I go back and forth on guns in glove boxes, seeing the pros and cons on both sides. I believe there is a fundamental, basic right for law-abiding people to possess firearms if they're not messing with anyone.

But - and I say this respectfully - I don't agree on the degree to which the 2A protects gun rights. We actually had a pretty good balance for decades until the Court began mucking it up in recent years. Shit, I was even OK with the Heller decision, but the Court since 2010 has gone off the rails. I do not agree at all with the Scalia/Thomas/Roberts/Alito/Federalist All-Star Team's rendering of the Constitution and gun rights. And I think - I know - we'd be a lot better off with a lot tighter controls on guns.

The Europeans thought they would be safer without guns to, and based on the things people like you told them they gave up their guns in the 1920s….and by the mid 1930s the governments of Europe, Under the control of the German socialists, began murdering 15 million men, women and children……

 

[multivita-man]

This isn’t a racist country……you guys may be racists but that’s on you……the violence is now driven by the policies of the democrat party.

Right that's why the Deep South is the most violent region in the US, and has been since 1860.

 

[multivita-man]

Because their governments slaughter their civillians…..Europe took guns away from their peoples and then murdered 15 million of them….

That number, by the way, is more than 246 years of gun murder in the United States……

Governments murder more people than criminals do and you guys worship government

Europe since the end of WWII - 77 years ago now - is a lot less violent than the US. I don't know why you think their governments are slaughtering people.

 

[multivita-man]

The Europeans thought they would be safer without guns to, and based on the things people like you told them they gave up their guns in the 1920s….and by the mid 1930s the governments of Europe, Under the control of the German socialists, began murdering 15 million men, women and children……

Oh you mean Nazis? You mean fascists? I've got some news for you: the Nazis weren't socialist. They were fascist. They were right wing fanatics - kinda like MAGA - that murdered socialists.

You need to read some real history for a change. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[progressive hunter]

Oh you mean Nazis? You mean fascists? I've got some news for you: the Nazis weren't socialist. They were fascist. They were right wing fanatics - kinda like MAGA - that murdered socialists.

You need to read some real history for a change. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

rightwing in europe is not the same as rightwing in the USA,,,

maybe you should stop living in the past??

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah, a 9mm in every grade schooler's backpack. That's civilization. I'm sure that's what Ben Franklin had in mind when he envisioned the American nation.

Gee, other countries don't seem to have this schoolyard carnage. Wonder why...

You fucking moron if that was how you comprehend what I said remind covered in the blood of the dead.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

On this, you and I agree: situational awareness is a thing. And it's practicing situational awareness that convinced me I don't really need a gun after all, and why I've not really felt the need to have one since I sold my pistol years ago. I can usually avoid problems by just knowing how to avoid danger (most of the time). Sure I could get mugged and shot at gunpoint but that can happen whether I own a gun or not.

I'm certainly not out to persuade you or anyone else to give up your guns and I basically do believe in the right of home defense - I go back and forth on guns in glove boxes, seeing the pros and cons on both sides. I believe there is a fundamental, basic right for law-abiding people to possess firearms if they're not messing with anyone.

But - and I say this respectfully - I don't agree on the degree to which the 2A protects gun rights. We actually had a pretty good balance for decades until the Court began mucking it up in recent years. Shit, I was even OK with the Heller decision, but the Court since 2010 has gone off the rails. I do not agree at all with the Scalia/Thomas/Roberts/Alito/Federalist All-Star Team's rendering of the Constitution and gun rights. And I think - I know - we'd be a lot better off with a lot tighter controls on guns.

And you missed it all around. I've never been mugged I did have a guy try to jump me from behind while walking downtown Charlotte. Walked past this guy leaning agya rail 20 ft.from where he stood I turned around in a gun fight ready position because he was stepping towards me in a fast step. I raised my left arm pointed my finger with my right hand positioned on my concealed pistol I said don't do it he turned and ran the other way.

 

[multivita-man]

And you missed it all around. I've never been mugged I did have a guy try to jump me from behind while walking downtown Charlotte. Walked past this guy leaning agya rail 20 ft.from where he stood I turned around in a gun fight ready position because he was stepping towards me in a fast step. I raised my left arm pointed my finger with my right hand positioned on my concealed pistol I said don't do it he turned and ran the other way.

Yeah, good for you, cowboy. I've been in tense situations and didn't even need to draw a gun. I'm street smart.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Yeah, good for you, cowboy. I've been in tense situations and didn't even need to draw a gun. I'm street smart.

Cowboy? You don't have a gun and you being street smart

 

[multivita-man]

Cowboy? You don't have a gun and you being street smart

That's right.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That's right.

Doubtful.

 

[2aguy]

Right that's why the Deep South is the most violent region in the US, and has been since 1860.

The cities in the South with the violence have been under total democrat party control since the Civil War.....and the democrat party controlled cities in the North, East and West are also violent shitholes.....Chicago, New York, L.A., Baltimore......

 

[2aguy]

Oh you mean Nazis? You mean fascists? I've got some news for you: the Nazis weren't socialist. They were fascist. They were right wing fanatics - kinda like MAGA - that murdered socialists.

You need to read some real history for a change. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I've got the truth for you....fascists, nazis....were socialists...you dumb ass...

Nazism is Socialism -- F A Hayek, et al

One of the main reasons why the socialist character of National Socialism has been quite generally unrecognized, is, no doubt, its alliance with the nationalist groups which represent the great industries and the great landowners. But this merely proves that these groups too -as they have since learnt to their bitter disappointment -have, at least partly, been mistaken as to the nature of the movement. But only partly because -and this is the most characteristic feature of modern Germany – many capitalists are themselves strongly influenced by socialistic ideas, and have not sufficient belief in capitalism to defend it with a clear conscience. But, in spite of this, the German entrepreneur class have manifested almost incredible short-sightedness in allying themselves with a move movement of whose strong anti-capitalistic tendencies there should never have been any doubt.

A careful observer must always have been aware that the opposition of the Nazis to the established socialist parties, which gained them the sympathy of the entrepreneur, was only to a very small extend directed against their economic policy. What the Nazis mainly objected to was their internationalism and all the aspects of their cultural programme which were still influenced by liberal ideas. But the accusations against the social-democrats and the communists which were most effective in their propaganda were not so much directed against their programme as against their supposed practice -their corruption and nepotism, and even their alleged alliance with “the golden International of Jewish Capitalism.”

It would, indeed, hardly have been possible for the Nationalists to advance fundamental objections to the economic policy of the other socialist parties when their own published programme differed from these only in that its socialism was much cruder and less rational. The famous 25 points drawn up by Herr Feder,[2] one of Hitler’s early allies, repeatedly endorsed by Hitler and recognized by the by-laws of the National-Socialist party as the immutable basis of all its actions, which together with an extensive commentary is circulating throughout Germany in many hundreds of thousands of copies, is full of ideas resembling those of the early socialists. But the dominant feature is a fierce hatred of anything capitalistic -individualistic profit seeking, large scale enterprise, banks, joint-stock companies, department stores, “international finance and loan capital,” the system of “interest slavery” in general; the abolition of these is described as the “[indecipherable] of the programme, around which everything else turns.” It was to this programme that the masses of the German people, who were already completely under the influence of collectivist ideas, responded so enthusiastically.

That this violent anti-capitalistic attack is genuine – and not a mere piece of propaganda – becomes as clear from the personal history of the intellectual leaders of the movement as from the general milieu from which it springs. It is not even denied that man of the young men who today play a prominent part in it have previously been communists or socialists. And to any observer of the literary tendencies which made the Germans intelligentsia ready to join the ranks of the new party, it must be clear that the common characteristic of all the politically influential writers – in many cases free from definite party affiliations – was their anti-liberal and anti-capitalist trend. Groups like that formed around the review “Die Tat” have made the phrase “the end of capitalism” an accepted dogma to most young Germans.[3]

And more...

The Myth of "Nazi Capitalism" | Chris Calton

German socialism, as Mises defines it, differs from what he called “socialism of the Russian pattern” in that “it, seemingly and nominally, maintains private ownership of the means of production, entrepreneurship, and market exchange.” However, this is only a superficial system of private ownership because through a complete system of economic intervention and control, the entrepreneurial function of the property owners is completely controlled by the State. By this, Mises means that shop owners do not speculate about future events for the purpose of allocating resources in the pursuit of profits. Just like in the Soviet Union, this entrepreneurial speculation and resource allocation is done by a single entity, the State, and economic calculation is thus impossible.

“In Nazi Germany,” Mises tells us, the property owners “were called shop managers or Betriebsführer. The government tells these seeming entrepreneurs what and how to produce, at what prices and from whom to buy, at what prices and to whom to sell. The government decrees at what wages labourers should work, and to whom and under what terms the capitalists should entrust their funds. Market exchange is but a sham. As all prices, wages and interest rates are fixed by the authority, they are prices, wages and interest rates in appearance only; in fact they are merely quantitative terms in the authoritarian orders determining each citizen’s income, consumption and standard of living. The authority, not the consumers, directs production. The central board of production management is supreme; all citizens are nothing else but civil servants. This is socialism with the outward appearance of capitalism. Some labels of the capitalistic market economy are retained, but they signify here something entirely different from what they mean in the market economy.”
======


Communism and fascism are the two bastard children of the socialist ideology. Communism calls for the destruction of private property, with the government owning and controlling the means of production, ostensibly for the people’s benefit. Fascism allows private property to exist, provided that the property owners understand that they have no rights separate from the state. Both are totalitarian systems that call themselves “democracies” because people are required to vote for pre-approved chosen candidates. These governments are inevitably repressive.
Most of the world’s governments today are fascist. All power rests in the government, which allows private property to exist but subordinates that property to government control. In China, the control is militaristic and obvious. In Europe, through the EU, it’s bureaucratic and someone more subtle. The current American system—a dominant political party disdainful of the Constitution working hand-in-glove with massive corporate, technocratic interests—is increasingly fascist.
Not all fascists, though, are Nazis. The National Socialist Party in Germany added a few twists to baseline fascist totalitarianism: A quest for world domination and racial obsessions. These two factors led Nazis to believe it was their right to enslave all inferior races except for the Jews, whom they intended to exterminate entirely.
If we are looking for people seeking world domination, believing all outsiders are rightful slaves, and planning to exterminate the Jews, you’ll find very few of those in America, a few more in parts of Europe, and tens of millions in the Muslim world. But back to Eastern Europe....


With the word 'Nazi' tossed around promiscuously, let's understand the term

 

[2aguy]

Europe since the end of WWII - 77 years ago now - is a lot less violent than the US. I don't know why you think their governments are slaughtering people.

And yet the 15 million people they murdered in 6 years of slaughter, to this day out numbers the number of people murdered with guns in the U.S. for the entire 246 years of our history....you idiot....

Governments murder more people than criminals do........

10,000 as an average number of gun murders.....some years more, some years less....later we can even bump that number up...but (spoiler), it won't change the underlying truth...



.10,000 gun murders a year X 246.....



We get?



2,460,000 gun murders....



246 years....and we average out to 2,460,000 gun murders........



European mass murder 1939-1945......

15 million innocent men, women and children....

More people murdered in 6 years than 246 years of gun murder in the U.S......

If you are generous and give 20,000 as the average gun murder number in the U.S per year....and that is way over the average......

4.92 million murdered with guns in the U.S. in 246 years....

Then.....

According to the Centers for Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year for self defense....against rape, robbery, murder, beatings, stabbings, and even mass public shootings....

1.1 million times a year......in 15 years you have used guns to save lives more than the 15 million the Europeans murdered in 6 years...

The vast majority of the murdered were innocent men, women and children.....not collateral from the socialist war....simply murdered by their governments.....



Nope...........not freaking giving up our guns cause anti-gun fanatics tell us to trust the government.....



Expect to see these calculations in future discussions.....



As to the 15,000,000 million number...the source...

=======

NAZI GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER



German socialists


By genocide, the murder of hostages, reprisal raids, forced labor, "euthanasia," starvation, exposure, medical experiments, and terror bombing, and in the concentration and death camps, the Nazis murdered from 15,003,000 to 31,595,000 people, most likely 20,946,000 men, women, handicapped, aged, sick, prisoners of war, forced laborers, camp inmates, critics, homosexuals, Jews, Slavs, Serbs, Germans, Czechs, Italians, Poles, French, Ukrainians, and many others. Among them 1,000,000 were children under eighteen years of age.1

And none of these monstrous figures even include civilian and military combat or war-deaths

http://[URL='http://hawaii.edu/powe...]http://hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.CHAP1.HTM

[/URL]

 

[Captain Caveman]

And your wrong.

you're

I admire your irony