Yet another school shooting

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Who runs the schools nowadays? DEMOCRATS.

Ain't it odd that not that long ago we drove to school with a GUN RACK in the back window of our pickup truck, with GUNS IN IT? And no one got shot. Why is that?

What are the leftists/democrats teaching kids that they feel the need to gun down unarmed people?

Ask democrats. It's their ball field. They own and run academia today.

No, Democrats do NOT run schools. The Board of Education in the state of Florida has been dominated by Republicans for the past 15 years or so. So how do you explain Parkland?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

 

[2aguy]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

Blasting away as fast as you can simply means you are not going to hit anything. That is the misnomer in gun control advocates and magazine size - slow, controlled bursts are how you take out a targets. A 2 round clip might actually accomplish slowing them down and also MASSIVELY impact the weapons defensive use as well. Essentially anything that impacts the fist by a tiny margin will impact the second massively.

So the schools become the wild west ?

There is no wild west. These so called shootouts where legal gun owners are spraying bullets all over the place simply do not exist. Not one time has anyone been able to point out an actual case of this. The only wild west shootouts are those that are had between gang members and that situation is not relevant to mass shootings.

Hmmm, did you actually agree with me on my post about the excersize in order to clarify the differences between a 30 round clip and a two round clip in action ? The mock shooting excersize could be teaching us alot when it comes to putting oneself behind such a weapon in the scenario, otherwise in order to learn how to stop or even slow down the killer so that we can save lives at that level of the event. Of course there are more than one level in these shootings to explore, but the actual shooter level is relevant to look at in this way.

Yes modifying the clip for less shooting before reload or to change out the clip might hinder the weapons full capability in what it was built for, but in a different event where the homeowner has to have it for defensive purposes, then maybe the ammo could be made more stronger (as in wad cutter rounds or hollow points), otherwise if only have the two rounds to use in order to stop someone or something.

A double barrel shotgun was the defensive gun of choice back in the day, where as to barrels full of no.5 buckshot was something to put the fear in you. Greatest defensive gun ever made for close in support if had a home invasion or other.

It depends on who is shooting the weapon when it comes to the hitting the target. A crowded area makes it a slaughter house as is proven.

And you have no idea what you are talking about........

 

[2aguy]

Who runs the schools nowadays? DEMOCRATS.

Ain't it odd that not that long ago we drove to school with a GUN RACK in the back window of our pickup truck, with GUNS IN IT? And no one got shot. Why is that?

What are the leftists/democrats teaching kids that they feel the need to gun down unarmed people?

Ask democrats. It's their ball field. They own and run academia today.

No, Democrats do NOT run schools. The Board of Education in the state of Florida has been dominated by Republicans for the past 15 years or so. So how do you explain Parkland?

The Teachers unions run the schools, not the boards.......

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Who runs the schools nowadays? DEMOCRATS.

Ain't it odd that not that long ago we drove to school with a GUN RACK in the back window of our pickup truck, with GUNS IN IT? And no one got shot. Why is that?

What are the leftists/democrats teaching kids that they feel the need to gun down unarmed people?

Ask democrats. It's their ball field. They own and run academia today.

No, Democrats do NOT run schools. The Board of Education in the state of Florida has been dominated by Republicans for the past 15 years or so. So how do you explain Parkland?

The Teachers unions run the schools, not the boards.......

Listen up, teacher's unions in Florida have zero power. Not a damn bit. Stick to topics you know and don't venture in the unknown. Bumper sticker answers are not your best tactic.

You are an excellent poster, but stick to what you know.

 

[2aguy]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

You didn't read your link, did you? There were 6 magazine that were unused that had 30 rounds in them....which doesn't say anything about the 10 round magazines that he actually used and was reported earlier .........

many news sources confirmed that he used 10 round magazines in the shooting and his weapon malfunctioned .......

Florida school shooter’s AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

You didn't read your link, did you? There were 6 magazine that were unused that had 30 rounds in them....which doesn't say anything about the 10 round magazines that he actually used and was reported earlier .........

many news sources confirmed that he used 10 round magazines in the shooting and his weapon malfunctioned .......

Florida school shooter’s AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

That makes no sense. Think about it! How did he get the 10 round magazines in? The duffel bag! DUH!

 

[2aguy]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

You didn't read your link, did you? There were 6 magazine that were unused that had 30 rounds in them....which doesn't say anything about the 10 round magazines that he actually used and was reported earlier .........

many news sources confirmed that he used 10 round magazines in the shooting and his weapon malfunctioned .......

Florida school shooter’s AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

That makes no sense. Think about it! How did he get the 10 round magazines in? The duffel bag! DUH!

Likely he had a mix........

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

You didn't read your link, did you? There were 6 magazine that were unused that had 30 rounds in them....which doesn't say anything about the 10 round magazines that he actually used and was reported earlier .........

many news sources confirmed that he used 10 round magazines in the shooting and his weapon malfunctioned .......

Florida school shooter’s AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

That makes no sense. Think about it! How did he get the 10 round magazines in? The duffel bag! DUH!

Likely he had a mix........

So you start with smallest mag? It makes no sense. Just like I said!

 

[2aguy]

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

I am sorry, but you have been post this 10 round magazine story and it simply is not true.

Nikolas Cruz left at least 180 rounds of ammunition — inside magazines that bore Nazi swastika symbols — at the scene of the Parkland school shooting.

"Along with his AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, Cruz abandoned at least six magazines that each contained 30 bullets at the scene of the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, according to two sources who spoke on condition of anonymity."

Nikolas Cruz left 180 rounds of ammunition — with swastikas — at Parkland school, sources say

Please use the correct information when framing your arguments.

You didn't read your link, did you? There were 6 magazine that were unused that had 30 rounds in them....which doesn't say anything about the 10 round magazines that he actually used and was reported earlier .........

many news sources confirmed that he used 10 round magazines in the shooting and his weapon malfunctioned .......

Florida school shooter’s AR-15 may have jammed, saving lives, report says

Cruz went in with only 10-round magazines because larger clips would not fit in his duffel bag, Book said.

That makes no sense. Think about it! How did he get the 10 round magazines in? The duffel bag! DUH!

Likely he had a mix........

So you start with smallest mag? It makes no sense. Just like I said!

He murdered 17 students.......that shows he is a rational guy?

 

[Unkotare]

Who runs the schools nowadays? DEMOCRATS.

Ain't it odd that not that long ago we drove to school with a GUN RACK in the back window of our pickup truck, with GUNS IN IT? And no one got shot. Why is that?

What are the leftists/democrats teaching kids that they feel the need to gun down unarmed people?

Ask democrats. It's their ball field. They own and run academia today.

No, Democrats do NOT run schools. The Board of Education in the state of Florida has been dominated by Republicans for the past 15 years or so. So how do you explain Parkland?

The Teachers unions run the schools, not the boards.......

???????

 

[beagle9]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

 

[2aguy]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

And that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.......but thanks, you confirm that you anti gun nut jobs are not going to "allow" us 10 round magazines, that your goal is going to be to take whatever you can get when you can get it and not stop to you have banned all guns.....thanks for clarifying that.....and for you, again, since you didn't learn anything the first time you saw it...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

 

[beagle9]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

And that is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.......but thanks, you confirm that you anti gun nut jobs are not going to "allow" us 10 round magazines, that your goal is going to be to take whatever you can get when you can get it and not stop to you have banned all guns.....thanks for clarifying that.....and for you, again, since you didn't learn anything the first time you saw it...

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?

The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.
LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.

News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.
Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1525107116674926

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

You and your lies are pathetic... No one is anti-gun here, and if anything I value children's lives in these events more than me sitting around saying anything except something that helps.

You were against banning bump stocks weren't you ?

Hey we have reached a level of depravity in this country that endangers us all when idiots get hold to these type weapons, and ignoring that fact is ridiculous.

Again I am not against any type of weapon being in the hands of good people (law abiding citizens), but I am definitely for keeping them from idiots or maniacs. Now we both know that that can't be done as is proven, so the only thing left is to either control the area or modify the weapons.

I garantee you that something will be done, so why not help instead of allowing the worst to come your way if the leftist get the power to control this stuff again ??

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

 

[Pop23]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

The teacher that stopped the Indiana shooting was a former defensive end at SIU.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/ex-siu-player-a-hero-in-indiana-school-shooting-052518?amp=true

If we can’t have bad asses in the classroom, then indeed, arm the teachers.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

The teacher that stopped the Indiana shooting was a former defensive end at SIU.

If we can’t have bad asses in the classroom, the indeed, arm the teachers.

A defensive end at SIU? Wow! I am impressed.

What is SIU, some overgrown high school?

While not disrespecting his bravery or actions, that tidbit of info just doesn't impress me because I went to an SEC school.

 

[Pop23]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

The teacher that stopped the Indiana shooting was a former defensive end at SIU.

If we can’t have bad asses in the classroom, the indeed, arm the teachers.

A defensive end at SIU? Wow! I am impressed.

What is SIU, some overgrown high school?

While not disrespecting his bravery or actions, that tidbit of info just doesn't impress me because I went to an SEC school.

Jesus, the guys a hero. Took bullets to save kids.

You think the only bad asses are SEC?

Wow

 

[Unkotare]

A simple excersize is all that is needed right ?

1. Get two AR-15 rifles and two shooters.

2. Set up targets in the form of a mock school shooting or concert shooting.

3. Have one rifle with a full 30 round clip.

4. Have it engage all targets as fast as it can emptying the clip. Time the event.

5. The other rifle has a two round clip.

6. Have the shooter engauge all targets with the two round clip, and then with a change out of added clips from his pants, baggie, back pack etc. Time the event.

7. How long does it take to kill all targets between the two events, and make a note of the timed pauses in between the events or during the events.

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

The teacher that stopped the Indiana shooting was a former defensive end at SIU.

If we can’t have bad asses in the classroom, the indeed, arm the teachers.

A defensive end at SIU? Wow! I am impressed.

What is SIU, some overgrown high school?

While not disrespecting his bravery or actions, that tidbit of info just doesn't impress me because I went to an SEC school.

Did you play football there?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They already tracked this in the research I showed...... the parkland shooter killed 17 with 10 round magazines..... and the Waffle House shooter killed 4 with a standard magazine.....

It is time in the gun free zone that matters, not magazine size...but thanks for letting us know that people like you won't be happy with a 10 round limit on magazines....

Mass public shooters kill fewer people each year than lawn mowers do...magazine limits only hurt law abiding citizens who need every bullet they can carry because when they are attacked, no one will be there to save them...they will be on their own, facing one or more armed attackers and they won't have backup.......

Stupid magazine limits only limit the number of bullets law abiding gun owners can have, mass shooters and criminals will not be effected.

You and your ridiculous stats that you keep posting in what you think has a correlation to these events, does no good in this debate, because it's making you look kind of desperate to get your opinions agreed to maybe ?

No, I'm all for stopping the ability of a shooter (until further technologies are implemented), from maximizing his kill rate before having to eject the clip and reload it with another clip.

No one is limiting the amount of ammo a legal gun owner is allowed to have, but only the rate that the bullets are allowed to be discharged from a semi-automatic weapon found in the hands of a deadly, crazy, and yet calculating seriously deranged person.

Why do you keep calling them "clips"? That alone says you are completely unfamiliar with such weapons.

The teacher that stopped the Indiana shooting was a former defensive end at SIU.

If we can’t have bad asses in the classroom, the indeed, arm the teachers.

A defensive end at SIU? Wow! I am impressed.

What is SIU, some overgrown high school?

While not disrespecting his bravery or actions, that tidbit of info just doesn't impress me because I went to an SEC school.

Jesus, the guys a hero. Took bullets to save kids.

You think the only bad asses are SEC?

Wow

Try reading it again, or find a child who can read it to you! You will see I agreed with your post. I put the appropriate text in big, red letters so you can try again to understand!

Oh, and as matter of fact, in football, the only real badass football players are in the SEC. Have a nice day!