YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[logical4u]

This has been posted above with sources for you to check.

You are fail in this thread.

QUOTE=logical4u;5875927]

Nope, you do your due diligence because it has been posted several times.

Knuckle dragging is not an acceptable excuse, not in your high school where you attend and not on this board.

Refresh my memory, the facts were? dates? numbers killed?

Refresh my memory, the facts were? dates? numbers killed?

This evidence has not been provided, and you continue with the intellectual dishonesty and deceit.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, I see, no evidence again.....

 

[logical4u]

I’m not sure how you missed it but your argument self-refutes: “no al Qaeda in Iraq despite the evidence”.

I suppose the chronic internecine hate-fest that causes the sunni holy warriors toward mass killings of Shiites is all just a conspiracy.

The subtle threats are interesting. The Taliban make similar threats: “hey, don’t attempt to confront our proscription for following the example of a 7th century warlord “prophet”. If you try and stop us, we can’t be held responsible for our actions”.

Oh my, you poor, oppressed Christians. Was the Dubya’ administrations holy war in Iraq not enough fun?

So Hollie, how would "you" suggest we deal with people that kill over 3000 American citizens in under one hour?

Am I to believe that you are convinced that invading Iraq somehow addressed the 9/11 attacks?

You did not answer the question.

 

[logical4u]

I understand that you do not know how to frame good questions, so I corrected it for you.

You have been fairly answered.

What would have you done?

What you asked is immaterial, because you don't understand the basics.

When the Bushies stupidly invaded Iraq the end result was the election of Obama.

I did not ask you what you would NOT do, I asked what you would do. Do you understand english?

Just like a lib..... if you don't like how something is, twist the meaning to suit your purposes.

No, you did not tell me what you would do to people that murdered over 3000 Americans in less than one hour.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Actually, . . . we have lots that he was not a Christian.

You have none that he accepted Jesus as his savior.

Does not matter, as you know that Jefferson never made testimony that he accept Jesus as Lord and Savior,.

You have a typo.

Jefferson attended church. Not an atheist church, not a deist church, but a Christian church. He never wrote that he was NOT a Christian. For a man that was so opinionated, you would think if he felt that way, he would have written it or spoken about it, publicly.
Still, no evidence.

Got it. You have no evidence that states Jefferson was an atheist or a deist from Jefferson.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The problems were religious, yes. The massacre was motivated by religious command and also greed played a minor role. Read the information, please, and become educated about it.

Here is some good reading for you, logical4u, then ask your history teacher at high school.

Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows: Will Bagley: 9780806134260: Amazon.com: Books

Missouri Digital Heritage: Featured Collection - Missouri Mormon War

The "Mormon War" in Missouri :: Daviess County Historical Society :: Gallatin Area Revitalization Alliance

Final Moments at Carthage Jail and the Death of Joseph Smith | Mormonism Research Ministry

New Georgia Encyclopedia: Joseph Standing (1854-1879)

Did the mormons do this in the name of God, have it done to them in the name of God? Was it territorial, or as in the case of the massacre, absolute greed?

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of the information has been posted several times above.

You are not going to get it again when it is obvious you won't read it.

This has been posted above with sources for you to check.

You are fail in this thread.

QUOTE=logical4u;5875927]

Nope, you do your due diligence because it has been posted several times.

Knuckle dragging is not an acceptable excuse, not in your high school where you attend and not on this board.

Refresh my memory, the facts were? dates? numbers killed?

This evidence has not been provided, and you continue with the intellectual dishonesty and deceit.

Yes, I see, no evidence again.....[/QUOTE]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, the question was answered clearly, but you are so uneducated on the subject you don't get it.

So Hollie, how would "you" suggest we deal with people that kill over 3000 American citizens in under one hour?

Am I to believe that you are convinced that invading Iraq somehow addressed the 9/11 attacks?

You did not answer the question.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are like a lib twisting materials. I am a solid Republican who can research, write, and think critically. You have not answered the question. What would you have done?

I understand that you do not know how to frame good questions, so I corrected it for you.

You have been fairly answered.

What would have you done?

I did not ask you what you would NOT do, I asked what you would do. Do you understand english?

Just like a lib..... if you don't like how something is, twist the meaning to suit your purposes.

No, you did not tell me what you would do to people that murdered over 3000 Americans in less than one hour.

 

[logical4u]

Instead of being lazy and saying "above" somewhere. Why not give post numbers since no one remembers it and can't find them anywhere? It would add much more to your severely lacking credibility.

Given above several times.

Your ignorance served only to embarass you yet again.

Reinventing the history of your religion will not supercede the actual history we already have.

Yet, we still have no evidence that "history" is as you say. We have many, many documents that demonstrate how Christianity influenced the founding of this country, and the people that came here for religious (Christian) freedom before it was a country.
Your hatred of Christianity is clouding your judgement, and making it clear that you will ignore Truth and fact over speculation and opinion every time, if it comes down against Christianity.

 

[logical4u]

You are now lying. Anyone can read above and find the evidence that Jesus wrote he did not believe in the Resurrection, in Miracles, in the Virgin Birth, and the fables of Christian priest craft.

Jefferson did write that he thought Jesus the perfect moral philosopher. But you will nothing that attests to Jefferson's witness of Jesus as Son of God.

You have a typo.

Jefferson attended church. Not an atheist church, not a deist church, but a Christian church. He never wrote that he was NOT a Christian. For a man that was so opinionated, you would think if he felt that way, he would have written it or spoken about it, publicly.
Still, no evidence.

Stankey's rebuttal for that is that Jefferson was a faker. He has said several times Jefferson just pretended to be a Christian to appease the public.

I realize, just pointing out that he provides no evidence to back up his opinion.

 

[logical4u]

Your opinion is not evidence.

No where will you find anything that suggests I am anything more than a believing Christian.

Study the LDS history from the 1830s through 1900. Study the murders of LDS missionaries and LDS followers simply because of their religion in Mormon Menace.

Ahhhh, now it becomes clear. Jake is a mormon posing as a Christian. Funny how a guy who believes he is going to have his own planet someday is jumping on the Hawly bandwagon to poke fun at fundies.

A "believing" Christian compared to a "practicing" Christian, because you sure do that, bear false witness a lot.....

 

[logical4u]

You don't get to call yet one more time for evidence that is posted above. Not going to happen.

Instead of being lazy and saying "above" somewhere. Why not give post numbers since no one remembers it and can't find them anywhere? It would add much more to your severely lacking credibility.

Given above several times.

Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence of Christians doing the same terroristic crimes against those in their community since the signing of the Constitution.

 

[logical4u]

One, we have proven that Jefferson, Franklin, Allan, and Paine were not Christians.

Two, we have proven that the country was generally a nation of Christians then and now.

Three, we have proven that the FFs, deists and Christians, created a secular government.

Four, we have proven that logical4u is poorly educated on the subject.

Five, we have proven that UR is simply ignorant and mean-spirited about the subject.

You have done no such thing.
You do not have one piece of evidence that quotes any of those men stating they are not Christian, they are atheist, or they are deist.

There are indications that each one of them called on the Lord in public prayer or in their writings.

Two is just agreeing with what this thread was originially about, glad you finally admit it.

If you haven't proven those listed were deist, why continue to falsely state that the FF were deists?

If you wanted to demonstrate how ignorant and poorly educated "we" were, you could/would provide evidence that demonstrated those men claimed NOT to be Christian.

Again, you have done no such thing, and continue to present your opinion as fact.

 

[logical4u]

Yes, I can see them using the Mayan calendar to date their documents. That's totally within the realm of possibilities.

The mental gymnastics you've got going on here are Olympic caliber.

I can't even come close to the twisting and jumping being done by those trying to prove that this is not a Christian nation!

However, the question still stands: Which dating system prevalent in the 18th century would a person have to use if he did not want to refer to the Lord?

If they were truly not Christian, they would have chosen different wording.

There was an Arabic calendar. There was a mayan calendar. They could have been "prideful" and started their own calendar. They could have simply left out "the year of our Lord" with just the date.

 

[logical4u]

The problems were religious, yes. The massacre was motivated by religious command and also greed played a minor role. Read the information, please, and become educated about it.

Here is some good reading for you, logical4u, then ask your history teacher at high school.

Blood of the Prophets: Brigham Young and the Massacre at Mountain Meadows: Will Bagley: 9780806134260: Amazon.com: Books

Missouri Digital Heritage: Featured Collection - Missouri Mormon War

The "Mormon War" in Missouri :: Daviess County Historical Society :: Gallatin Area Revitalization Alliance

Final Moments at Carthage Jail and the Death of Joseph Smith | Mormonism Research Ministry

New Georgia Encyclopedia: Joseph Standing (1854-1879)

Did the mormons do this in the name of God, have it done to them in the name of God? Was it territorial, or as in the case of the massacre, absolute greed?

"Religious command" like Charles Manson's "religious command"? You have not proven that this was "God's will" attacks. You have demonstrated that a religion failed to recognize authority of law enforcement in the states and chose raid and pillage. I saw no reference to mormons screaming "this is God's will" or "this is for the Lord" when they attacked.

 

[JakeStarkey]

logical4u reminds me of a history class that I had. We studied the early Soviet Union. What strikes me is how logical4u and other acted like the communists, making baseless charges against those with whom they disagreed. Now lets get logical4u straight before being left.

No one has denied that religion and spirituality, including Christian beliefs, influenced most of, but not all, the Founding Fathers.

Many European came to America to practice their own version of Christianity while persecuting other Christian sects: Puritans, Catholics, Dutch Reformed, etc.

No one hates Christianity.

Yet you pant and chant and rant about how you are being abused and your beliefs, while in fact you are abusing others.

Instead of being lazy and saying "above" somewhere. Why not give post numbers since no one remembers it and can't find them anywhere? It would add much more to your severely lacking credibility.

Your ignorance served only to embarass you yet again.

Reinventing the history of your religion will not supercede the actual history we already have.

Yet, we still have no evidence that "history" is as you say. We have many, many documents that demonstrate how Christianity influenced the founding of this country, and the people that came here for religious (Christian) freedom before it was a country.
Your hatred of Christianity is clouding your judgement, and making it clear that you will ignore Truth and fact over speculation and opinion every time, if it comes down against Christianity.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You are acting like a communist again, claiming I bare false witness when in fact you are the one doing that.

Your opinion is not evidence.

No where will you find anything that suggests I am anything more than a believing Christian.

Ahhhh, now it becomes clear. Jake is a mormon posing as a Christian. Funny how a guy who believes he is going to have his own planet someday is jumping on the Hawly bandwagon to poke fun at fundies.

A "believing" Christian compared to a "practicing" Christian, because you sure do that, bear false witness a lot.....

 

[JakeStarkey]

Already posted several times and your claim is dismissed. The word "terroristic" is your claim, not mine. Stop acting like a communist.

You don't get to call yet one more time for evidence that is posted above. Not going to happen.

Instead of being lazy and saying "above" somewhere. Why not give post numbers since no one remembers it and can't find them anywhere? It would add much more to your severely lacking credibility.

Quote: Originally Posted by logical4u

Still waiting for you to provide any evidence of Christians doing the same terroristic crimes against those in their community since the signing of the Constitution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

logical4u continues to act like a communist, lying and basely making comments that aren't true.

Without any doubt, we have demonstrated that Franklin, Jefferson, Allan, and Paine were not Christians. Never has logical4u posted anything that testifies them making a witness of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Only logical4u claims that I said the FFs were deists: I have said repeatedly from the beginning they were mostly Christian with several of them deist.

logical4u continues to demonstrate her ignorance and poor education in suggesting that Franklin, Paine, Allan, and Jefferson were Christians but cannot show that any of them ever made a witness of faith in Christ as their savior.

I call on logical4u and UR to quit acting communistic in their words here.

One, we have proven that Jefferson, Franklin, Allan, and Paine were not Christians.

Two, we have proven that the country was generally a nation of Christians then and now.

Three, we have proven that the FFs, deists and Christians, created a secular government.

Four, we have proven that logical4u is poorly educated on the subject.

Five, we have proven that UR is simply ignorant and mean-spirited about the subject.

You have done no such thing.
You do not have one piece of evidence that quotes any of those men stating they are not Christian, they are atheist, or they are deist.

There are indications that each one of them called on the Lord in public prayer or in their writings.

Two is just agreeing with what this thread was originially about, glad you finally admit it.

If you haven't proven those listed were deist, why continue to falsely state that the FF were deists?

If you wanted to demonstrate how ignorant and poorly educated "we" were, you could/would provide evidence that demonstrated those men claimed NOT to be Christian.

Again, you have done no such thing, and continue to present your opinion as fact.

 

[Crackerjack]

I can't even come close to the twisting and jumping being done by those trying to prove that this is not a Christian nation!

However, the question still stands: Which dating system prevalent in the 18th century would a person have to use if he did not want to refer to the Lord?

If they were truly not Christian, they would have chosen different wording.

There was an Arabic calendar. There was a mayan calendar. They could have been "prideful" and started their own calendar. They could have simply left out "the year of our Lord" with just the date.

So apparently everyone living in Corpus Christi, Texas is Christian? I mean, obviously writing "the body of Christ" every time they write out their address means they certainly recognize the divinity of Jesus Christ, right?