YES, America CERTAINLY WAS FOUNDED as a CHRISTIAN NATION...

[Hollie]

Washington would not even take communion when challenged by his parish priest and walked in the gardens thereafter.

Please post a link to substantiate your claim. And not from one of Hollie's pinko, atheist fundie websites but from a reputable source like the Library of Congress.

If if you could find a link, this shows your limited understanding of communion. I have refused communion myself for Biblical reasons. This could show him as a stronger Christian in light of Biblical teachings, not a weaker one. You atheists love to pretend you know and then take things out of context to support your materialism.

Wipe that unseemly drool from your keyboard, please.

Are you going to stalk me through every one of your posts?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wait, are you saying Jefferson was a Deist???

What either Shortbus or Fakey post has no bearing on reality.

A couple of DNC hacks who will spew any shit that they think will further party goals.

 

[UltimateReality]

Wait, are you saying Jefferson was a Deist???

What either Shortbus or Fakey post has no bearing on reality.

A couple of DNC hacks who will spew any shit that they think will further party goals.

I was really being sarcastic. How many times can Starkey and Butch repeat the same thing over again?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Wait, are you saying Jefferson was a Deist???

What either Shortbus or Fakey post has no bearing on reality.

A couple of DNC hacks who will spew any shit that they think will further party goals.

I was really being sarcastic. How many times can Starkey and Butch repeat the same thing over again?

Till their last brain cell goes out?

Shouldnt be much longer then...

 

[bodecea]

I love it when you guys double down on the Stupid.

 

[bodecea]

Wait, are you saying Jefferson was a Deist???

What either Shortbus or Fakey post has no bearing on reality.

A couple of DNC hacks who will spew any shit that they think will further party goals.

Yeah....says the Idiot who thinks the Episcopal Church doesn't have Priests (or Bishops or Archbishops) and that Justinian I ruled in 449 BC.

 

[logical4u]

Adams on Religion
John Adams, a self-confessed "church going animal," grew up in the Congregational Church in Braintree, Massachusetts. By the time he wrote this letter his theological position can best be described as Unitarian. In this letter Adams tells Jefferson that "Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"



"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes."
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814

Yet in every state constitution (provided earlier in this thread), the Lord is mentioned by names that were common for God in those times.

Let me make it easier: where did a FF every request that the Lord stay out of the US gov't?

 

[logical4u]

So what. Unimportant to the argument. Why? Vestryman was part of the county commissioners' job, UR. One had to belong to the Anglican Church, which Washington and Jefferson certainly did, and both served as vestryman. In other words, if a Virginian went into politics in VA, he was most likely going to be Anglican despite his real religious beliefs.

Jefferson was a deist and Washington was certainly no one's concept of today's far right wack conservative Christian.

George Washington, Episcopal Vestryman
Washington was for many years a vestryman at Truro Parish, his local Episcopal Church. The entry of June 5, 1772, shows Washington and his neighbor, George Mason, the author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights, engaged in parish business, including making arrangements for replacing the front steps of the church, painting its roof and selling church pews to the members as a means of obtaining revenue. The minutes of the meeting also reveal that Washington and George William Fairfax presented the parish with gold leaf to be used to gild letters on "Carved Ornaments" on the altar.

Didn't you just say Jefferson belonged to the "Anglican" church. This man that stood up for learning and independence would "appease" people by going to church? That just doesn't make sense.

 

[logical4u]

Hollie owns UR and logical4u on this debate. She has them lobbing up slow pitches that she wacks out the park. They have not stood a chance.

Why don't you and Hollie get a room? There is clearly something there for you that the rest of us cannot see.

 

[logical4u]

Jefferson believed in Christ.
He did not believe in the miracles that the bible says he performed.
That is why Jefferson wrote his own bible. He took out all of the miracles that Jesus performed.

Do you have evidence that he believed that? Did he write persuasive letters about that like he did with his other sincere beliefs? Because someone wrote something for their own personal use proves nothing.

 

[Hollie]

Adams on Religion
John Adams, a self-confessed "church going animal," grew up in the Congregational Church in Braintree, Massachusetts. By the time he wrote this letter his theological position can best be described as Unitarian. In this letter Adams tells Jefferson that "Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"



"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes."
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814

Yet in every state constitution (provided earlier in this thread), the Lord is mentioned by names that were common for God in those times.

Let me make it easier: where did a FF every request that the Lord stay out of the US gov't?

The FF's came to a concensus. It's called the First Amendment.

To put a finer point on that, the FF's intention was to put a muzzle on the governments involvement in the personal affairs of the citizenry regarding their choice or no choice of religion.

The best way to do that was to keep government completely neutral regarding the matters of religion.

 

[logical4u]

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"



"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes."
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814

Yet in every state constitution (provided earlier in this thread), the Lord is mentioned by names that were common for God in those times.

Let me make it easier: where did a FF every request that the Lord stay out of the US gov't?

The FF's came to a concensus. It's called the First Amendment.

To put a finer point on that, the FF's intention was to put a muzzle on the governments involvement in the personal affairs of the citizenry regarding their choice or no choice of religion.

The best way to do that was to keep government completely neutral regarding the matters of religion.

The question was about the "Lord", not about "religion".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Uncensored was the one who did not know that Episcopalian clergy are called "priests".

Uncensored is the one who cannot accept the narrative that Washington refused to take communion from his parish priest and walked in the church gardens at that time.

Uncensored no where in what I have wrote can logically think I called Washington a catholic.

Uncensored is unlettered and ignorant of American history.

Episcopal Priest....they are called Priests as well as Vicars.

Goes AGAIN to show you fail at basic knowledge.

Washington's was called "Minister."

And a Vicar is NOT the same as a Catholic priest.

Catholic priests are conduits between the layperson and god. One of the MAJOR reforms of protestantism was the reaffirmation of the actual doctrine of Christianity that Christ was the conduit, and that man communicated with god through him, not a priest.

There is no confession to a priest, like all protestant denominations, the Anglican/Episcopalians confess directly to God, absolution provided through Christ and not a priest.

Fakey was floating bullshit, attempting to rewrite history to more suit your shameful party.

Washington had a close relationship with the Rev. Lee Massey, who spent a great deal of time at both Mt. Vernon and in the Capitol.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The story is common knowledge and you can't disprove it.

Washington would not even take communion when challenged by his parish priest and walked in the gardens thereafter.

Please post a link to substantiate your claim. And not from one of Hollie's pinko, atheist fundie websites but from a reputable source like the Library of Congress.

If if you could find a link, this shows your limited understanding of communion. I have refused communion myself for Biblical reasons. This could show him as a stronger Christian in light of Biblical teachings, not a weaker one. You atheists love to pretend you know and then take things out of context to support your materialism.

Basically the Bible instructs Christians not to take communion until they have examined their heart, and confessed their sin.

1 Corinthians 11:

4 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Who said that, logical4u? The separation is of church and state. Silly rabbit.

Adams on Religion
John Adams, a self-confessed "church going animal," grew up in the Congregational Church in Braintree, Massachusetts. By the time he wrote this letter his theological position can best be described as Unitarian. In this letter Adams tells Jefferson that "Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell."

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
-- John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America"



"The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes."
-- John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814

Yet in every state constitution (provided earlier in this thread), the Lord is mentioned by names that were common for God in those times.

Let me make it easier: where did a FF every request that the Lord stay out of the US gov't?

 

[JakeStarkey]

If he wanted a political career, of course it did.

So what. Unimportant to the argument. Why? Vestryman was part of the county commissioners' job, UR. One had to belong to the Anglican Church, which Washington and Jefferson certainly did, and both served as vestryman. In other words, if a Virginian went into politics in VA, he was most likely going to be Anglican despite his real religious beliefs.

Jefferson was a deist and Washington was certainly no one's concept of today's far right wack conservative Christian.

George Washington, Episcopal Vestryman
Washington was for many years a vestryman at Truro Parish, his local Episcopal Church. The entry of June 5, 1772, shows Washington and his neighbor, George Mason, the author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights, engaged in parish business, including making arrangements for replacing the front steps of the church, painting its roof and selling church pews to the members as a means of obtaining revenue. The minutes of the meeting also reveal that Washington and George William Fairfax presented the parish with gold leaf to be used to gild letters on "Carved Ornaments" on the altar.

Didn't you just say Jefferson belonged to the "Anglican" church. This man that stood up for learning and independence would "appease" people by going to church? That just doesn't make sense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Posted above that Jefferson of course did not believe in the superstitious parts of the Christian religion.

Jefferson believed in Christ.
He did not believe in the miracles that the bible says he performed.
That is why Jefferson wrote his own bible. He took out all of the miracles that Jesus performed.

Do you have evidence that he believed that? Did he write persuasive letters about that like he did with his other sincere beliefs? Because someone wrote something for their own personal use proves nothing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The question about "the Lord" is misdirection.

We are talking about the church and state, not the Lord, logical4u.

We are talking about the Constitution, not your religious conceptions.

 

[Hollie]

Yet in every state constitution (provided earlier in this thread), the Lord is mentioned by names that were common for God in those times.

Let me make it easier: where did a FF every request that the Lord stay out of the US gov't?

The FF's came to a concensus. It's called the First Amendment.

To put a finer point on that, the FF's intention was to put a muzzle on the governments involvement in the personal affairs of the citizenry regarding their choice or no choice of religion.

The best way to do that was to keep government completely neutral regarding the matters of religion.

The question was about the "Lord", not about "religion".

It shouldn't be difficult to understand that in the context of the time, "Lord" defined a very specific deity.

 

[Crackerjack]

No one is falling for your saintly act. You think no on will notice how you conveniently left out all your bullying quotes? Someone else brought up the fact I was a cop and discredited my service before I made mention of my unblemished record, so nice try on twisting the truth.

Lie.

Hollie, or whatever your name is, you seriously need to get a life. Got tired of spewing hate on the Muslims and thought you would try your hand at Creationists. Guess that works on some but this retired cop isn't falling for your lies and your fraudulent postings. I really seriously wonder what your real story is. I guess we will never know.

You brought it up, slapnuts.

I guess the whole not bearing false witness rule doesn't apply to you.