WWIII by the summer

[Ringo]

 

[Deadstick]

Well here is the family background to the Nazi Merz, if those long range missiles are used i hope Berlin is blasted to Hell, i can't believe how patient Russia has been.

Friedrich Merz's grandfather, Josef Paul Sauvigny, was a member of the Centre Party, which voted for the Enabling Act in 1933 and to which Franz von Papen belonged as a supporter. On May 1, 1933, Sauvigny gave a laudatory speech about Hitler. Shortly thereafter, he had two streets in Brilon renamed after Hitler and Göring. He was a senior squad leader (Oberscharführer) in the SA, and in 1938 he finally joined the NSDAP. He was also a member of the NS-Volkswohlfahrt (National Socialist People's Welfare), the NS-Reichskriegerbund (National Socialist League of War Veterans), and the NS-Rechtswahrerbund (National Socialist League for the Protection of Law). Friedrich Merz once described his grandfather as an admirable role model.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Deadstick]

Well they can't say they were not warned.

 

[Zavulon]

Well, who raised the crowns of the Austrian, Russian, German emperors and the Turkish Sultan? Where are these monarchies?

Crown of Russia was raised by Lenin and Trotsky (figurally speaking), crown of Turkey - by Atatürk. Austria and Germany (as well as many other territories) became, in fact, protectorates of the victors. Every single crown (if we are talking figurally, about symbols of power, not literally about fancy golden hats) was carefully collected by someone.
Romanovs or any other specific family are expendables.

The russian working class won and that was enough to change everything.

You know, a revolution rarely (may be never) create something actually new. It usually only unleash what is already inside the nation. Say, Russians didn't build their new state by the recipies taken from the fancy German books. They tried, but failed in the first years. Russian socialism, significantly, raised feom the traditional Russian lay. And quite soon they've returned to money, soldiers/commanders, secret services and bureaucracy and so on.... And Lenin&Trotsky made of themselves good reference to Minin&Pojarskiy in their PR-strategy. Not just "builders of the new world" but also "the saviours of Russia". And, we know, Stalin played Ivan the Terrible. At least it is quite popular opinion. So, those are quite discussable questions - was the Soviet Union something "absolutely new", or just "improved/degraded version of Russian Empire". Is Russian Federation something "absolutely new" or is it "improved/degraded version of the Soviet Union"?
I'm a practical man. I don't care about ruling classes and other political issuses. Most of it nothing but BS-rhetoric anyway.

And about the fact that everyone thought that there would be a big war, this is from the series, “smart, as my wife after".

Almost everyone thought that big war in Europe was no longer possible, that machine guns and other military inventions made war impossible, because everyone would kill each other. And the politicians thought that the war would pass very quickly and everyone would be home in a couple of months.
Doesn't sound at all like Engels' view, does it?

Don't mix up official propaganda and actual beliefs of decision-makers. Those who were actually more or less responsible for the planning of military/economic/psychological actions like, say, Friedrich Bernhardi, Paul Regnard, Ivan Bliokh, Vladimir Bekhterev, Petr Durnovo they predicted the situation quite accurate.
In fiction literature it was predicted, say, by Herbert Wells and Alexander Bogdanov.

And Friedrich Engels' predictions weren't really accurate.
1. There will be no more local war for Germany - wrong. There were local wars.
2. There will be a big war - correct.
3. This war will be as devastating as thirty-years war - wrong. In Thirty-years war Germany had lost 40-75% of population and significant regions of Central Europe were totally depopulated, in WWI Germany lost only 10% of population, no region of Germany/Europe was totally depopulated).
4. There will be no winners and losers, there will be total anarchy in the world - wrong. Germany was under control of the government until capitulation, say nothing about winners.
5. The workers will take the power in the whole world. Discussable questions. Mass armies, industrial revolution and "volkswaffe" (mass and cheap firearms) demanded more egalitarian society, but "uberwaffe" (like tanks and planes, and other modern equipment) and complexity of the modern economy demanded elitarian society.

 

[Ringo]

Crown of Russia was raised by Lenin and Trotsky (figurally speaking), crown of Turkey - by Atatürk. Austria and Germany (as well as many other territories) became, in fact, protectorates of the victors. Every single crown (if we are talking figurally, about symbols of power, not literally about fancy golden hats) was carefully collected by someone.
Romanovs or any other specific family are expendables.

You know, a revolution rarely (may be never) create something actually new. It usually only unleash what is already inside the nation. Say, Russians didn't build their new state by the recipies taken from the fancy German books. They tried, but failed in the first years. Russian socialism, significantly, raised feom the traditional Russian lay. And quite soon they've returned to money, soldiers/commanders, secret services and bureaucracy and so on.... And Lenin&Trotsky made of themselves good reference to Minin&Pojarskiy in their PR-strategy. Not just "builders of the new world" but also "the saviours of Russia". And, we know, Stalin played Ivan the Terrible. At least it is quite popular opinion. So, those are quite discussable questions - was the Soviet Union something "absolutely new", or just "improved/degraded version of Russian Empire". Is Russian Federation something "absolutely new" or is it "improved/degraded version of the Soviet Union"?
I'm a practical man. I don't care about ruling classes and other political issuses. Most of it nothing but BS-rhetoric anyway.



Don't mix up official propaganda and actual beliefs of decision-makers. Those who were actually more or less responsible for the planning of military/economic/psychological actions like, say, Friedrich Bernhardi, Paul Regnard, Ivan Bliokh, Vladimir Bekhterev, Petr Durnovo they predicted the situation quite accurate.
In fiction literature it was predicted, say, by Herbert Wells and Alexander Bogdanov.

And Friedrich Engels' predictions weren't really accurate.
1. There will be no more local war for Germany - wrong. There were local wars.
2. There will be a big war - correct.
3. This war will be as devastating as thirty-years war - wrong. In Thirty-years war Germany had lost 40-75% of population and significant regions of Central Europe were totally depopulated, in WWI Germany lost only 10% of population, no region of Germany/Europe was totally depopulated).
4. There will be no winners and losers, there will be total anarchy in the world - wrong. Germany was under control of the government until capitulation, say nothing about winners.
5. The workers will take the power in the whole world. Discussable questions. Mass armies, industrial revolution and "volkswaffe" (mass and cheap firearms) demanded more egalitarian society, but "uberwaffe" (like tanks and planes, and other modern equipment) and complexity of the modern economy demanded elitarian society.

Oh, come on! The world is still dealing with the predictions of Nostordamus, which can be attached to any event and you dismantle the “incorrectness” of a very accurate prediction of Engels, which is 10000 times more accurate than any “prediction” of a famous predictor....

 

[Ringo]

 

[Zavulon]

Oh, come on! The world is still dealing with the predictions of Nostordamus, which can be attached to any event and you dismantle the “incorrectness” of a very accurate prediction of Engels, which is 10000 times more accurate than any “prediction” of a famous predictor....

I don't compare Engels with Nostradamus. I do compare him with Friedrich Bernhardi in Germany, Paul Regnard in France, Ivan Bliokh in Russia. And their predictions were much more accurate than his.

 

[Captain Caveman]

And what would you prefer?

Let's play the game. Cocaine Coalition (the UK, France, Germany, Poland and Ukraine), without American order or even permission, decided to escalate and join the war (including, if necessary, British and French nuclear weapons). They openly declared war to Russian Federation. Russia, as the first move, attacked British and French nuclear bases. It was pretty surgical and moderate strike - no civilian casualties, few thousands of British and French soldiers and sailors are dead. The bulk of their nuclear forces are destroyed. French and British governments gave the order to their survived SSBNs to attack Russian cities. British captain refused to execute obviously criminal order and asked for shelter in the USA. French captain attacked Saint Petersburg (for salvo of one SSBN can't penetrate Moscow ABD). Most of his warheads were intercepted, but few reached their target - thousands of Russian civilians are dead, hundreds of thousands lost their houses. Russians are, of course, pissed off, but retaliate quite moderately. Seven largest French cities (but not Paris) are totally destroyed and half of their inhabitants are dead or crippled.
Marseille: 850,636 inhabitants.
Lyon: 491,268 inhabitants.
Toulouse: 447,360 inhabitants.
Nice: 342,295 inhabitants.
Nantes: 292,718 inhabitants.
Strasbourg: 275,718 inhabitants.
Montpellier: 272,084 inhabitants.

German forces attacked American base and captured twenty B61-12 gravity bombs, now they are trying to hack them to be able to use as a terroristic weapons.

Now Russian Federation demands unconditional surrender of members of Cocaine Coalition and total denuclearisation of Western and Central Europe. Russian Federation isn't demonstrating clear signs of preparations to immediate attack against the USA, but they do evacuate state-esensial personel, they have their shelters prepared and Army - mobilised.


American government, who didn't believed in what is actually happening (and actively denied it) in the Europe now have the choice:

1. The USA can attack Russia unprepared. Highly likely it means death of 50% of American population.
2. The USA can ally Russia and attack members of Cocaine Coalition. It means that the USA regain control over at least half of Europe suffering little losses from invasion in Europe, and, say, 5% risk of one terroristic nuclear burst of German (former American) nuclear bomb in one American city.
3. The USA can stay neutral, and in this case the USA lose even formal control over Europe



So, if you were POTUS - what would you choose?

You are obviously totally unaware of War Plan Red

 

[Zavulon]

You are obviously totally unaware of War Plan Red

I know a little about it, even lesser - about Canadian "Defence Scheme No. 1". But as much as I know it was more about preventing British invasion in America. I'm almost sure that American generals don't have actual plan about fighting a limited nuclear war against Germany or other former NATO countries, being in alliance with Russia.

 

[Ringo]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Berlin would be pretty happy about that too

It's the Final Solution to their German Caucasian problem. The Islamists would have full control in 18 months

 

[Deadstick]

Some never get back.

 

[Ringo]

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well, after the CIA attack on Russia bomber fleet, the question is: did "Ukraine" tell the Trump Adm in advance?

If So: Trump didn't tell them to stand down, therefore Putin will likely only discuss peace terms once he's reached the Polish border. The Trump/Putin relationship is in tatters

If Not: Trump is being played by how Administration every bit as much as Biden was by his

Not sure how this ends well

 

[Zavulon]

Well, after the CIA attack on Russia bomber fleet, the question is: did "Ukraine" tell the Trump Adm in advance?

If So: Trump didn't tell them to stand down, therefore Putin will likely only discuss peace terms once he's reached the Polish border. The Trump/Putin relationship is in tatters

There is no any "Trump/Putin relationship" - as far as know, both are strait. It's not personal, anyway. And yes, both US attack and inevitable Russian retaliation (highly likely deniable and proxy, if possible) will decrease Russia-US relationships on the level of pretty close to the "open nuclear counter-force attack".

If Not: Trump is being played by how Administration every bit as much as Biden was by his

Doesn't matter who actually make decisions in Moscow or Washington, if both those cities are going to be destroyed quite soon.

Not sure how this ends well

No problem. As Americans say: "Life is *****, and in the end we all are dead". Think positive. You'll all go together when you go.



Anyway, even American psychology of the meekly herd doesn't exclude the hope of the personal survival. May be it is even based on it. So, make those preparations you can make, and face the future as if you really have a chance.

 

[Deadstick]

Well, after the CIA attack on Russia bomber fleet, the question is: did "Ukraine" tell the Trump Adm in advance?

If So: Trump didn't tell them to stand down, therefore Putin will likely only discuss peace terms once he's reached the Polish border. The Trump/Putin relationship is in tatters

If Not: Trump is being played by how Administration every bit as much as Biden was by his

Not sure how this ends well

No doubt this was a Nato attack Putin should declare war on Ukraine and mobilize forces to treat it as war and not some special military operation, in theory that attack on those airbases was an attack on Russia's strategic nuclear defences changing the balance of power and no Country can tolerate that, the US wouldn't.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

No doubt this was a Nato attack Putin should declare war on Ukraine and mobilize forces to treat it as war and not some special military operation, in theory that attack on those airbases was an attack on Russia's strategic nuclear defences changing the balance of power and no Country can tolerate that, the US wouldn't.

It’s not Ukraine, it’s not Zelenskyy, it’s not Macron, it’s not even NATO; it’s the Satanic Warmongers pulling the strings.

Even something as absurd as leveling Kiev, a former Russian capital, does not get to the root cause

Putin knows he’s got to get to the root cause

 

[Zavulon]

No doubt this was a Nato attack Putin should declare war on Ukraine and mobilize forces to treat it as war and not some special military operation, in theory that attack on those airbases was an attack on Russia's strategic nuclear defences changing the balance of power and no Country can tolerate that, the US wouldn't.

Of course Russia won't tolerate it. But if we are on the level "deniable proxy attacks against nuclear forces", there is no need to kill some random Ukrainian civilians. There will be "The Army of Scotland Liberation" attaking HMNB Clyde, or "Houthie pirates" attacking US submarines in ocean or US strategic bombers in their bases.

 

[Deadstick]

Former CIA intel analyst Larry Johnsons take on the attack.