Wow....

[DamnYankee]

Health care industry offers to cut $2 trillion in costs
Source says the 10-year plan from top representatives of the health care industry is a bid to help pass President Barack Obama's health overhaul. Full story Industry reps offer $2 trillion in health savings - White House- msnbc.com


Must have some real persuasive power there....

 

[Seraega]

Sounds like a great big step forward:

"Obama's health care plan not a detailed legislative proposal, but a set of goals. Obama is going to rely on Congress to write the detailed version. The president wants to build on the current system, in which employers, government and individuals share the responsibility of paying for coverage. Most Americans would still have private insurance, but the government would play an even bigger role than it does now, by subsidizing premiums for some middle-class families and by setting national consumer protections.

People working for big companies would probably not see big changes in how they get health insurance. But self-employed people and those working for small businesses would be able to get their coverage through a new kind of insurance purchasing pool, called an "exchange." Plans in the exchange would have to follow new consumer protection rules. For example, they could not deny a person coverage because of existing health problems. And they would not be able to charge sick people more."

Look at that, no evil conspiracy to take away existing health coverage... just like Pres. Obama promised in his campaign. If you're happy with your current plan then you are NOT affected by the new program. Subsidies to help middle class families get coverage is a big ++++ in my book, as well as getting a nationwide "exchange" of policies.

Having insurance regulated state by state is ridiculous. Why is it that in NY there is only 1 option for people who don't qualify for state plans... it's $510 PER PERSON, but in say... Virginia there are dozens of plans starting at $186 for my entire family of 3. It makes no sense. Didn't we get rid of the articles of confederation because leaving powers like this to the state is completely stupid?

 

[DamnYankee]

Sounds like a great big step forward:

"Obama's health care plan not a detailed legislative proposal, but a set of goals. Obama is going to rely on Congress to write the detailed version. The president wants to build on the current system, in which employers, government and individuals share the responsibility of paying for coverage. Most Americans would still have private insurance, but the government would play an even bigger role than it does now, by subsidizing premiums for some middle-class families and by setting national consumer protections.

People working for big companies would probably not see big changes in how they get health insurance. But self-employed people and those working for small businesses would be able to get their coverage through a new kind of insurance purchasing pool, called an "exchange." Plans in the exchange would have to follow new consumer protection rules. For example, they could not deny a person coverage because of existing health problems. And they would not be able to charge sick people more."

Look at that, no evil conspiracy to take away existing health coverage... just like Pres. Obama promised in his campaign. If you're happy with your current plan then you are NOT affected by the new program. Subsidies to help middle class families get coverage is a big ++++ in my book, as well as getting a nationwide "exchange" of policies.

Having insurance regulated state by state is ridiculous. Why is it that in NY there is only 1 option for people who don't qualify for state plans... it's $510 PER PERSON, but in say... Virginia there are dozens of plans starting at $186 for my entire family of 3. It makes no sense. Didn't we get rid of the articles of confederation because leaving powers like this to the state is completely stupid?

I'm still not happy with his plan/proposal as it falls short of what I feel is needed for real reform of the entire system. However, a concession, such as this, from the insurers, is definitely needed. I'd like to see one from the pharmaceutical industry as well.

 

[editec]

They're planning on reducing the RATE OF INCREASES in costs.

One wonders, given that they've been telling us that they had no choice but to increase costs far faster than inflation for the last thirty years, how they can PROMISE to end that trend now.

How will they do this, exactly?

This article offers us no information about this plan to reduce the RATE OF INFLATION other than their promise to try to do so.

Pretty thin, that gruel.

 

[DamnYankee]

They're planning on reducing the RATE OF INCREASES in costs.

One wonders, given that they've been telling us that they had no choice but to increase costs far faster than inflation for the last thirty years, how they can PROMISE to end that trend now.

How will they do this, exactly?

This article offers us no information about this plan to reduce the RATE OF INFLATION other than their promise to try to do so.

Pretty thin, that gruel.

Perhaps, they had an attack of conscience.... for increasing their "costs far faster than inflation for the last thirty years". Doubtful, but more likely than a "plan to reduce the RATE OF INFLATION".

 

[editec]

Perhaps they had an attack of reality?

Understanding that the American people are so pissed that they might sign onto fully socialized medicine, if something isn't done soon, might have something to do with their sudden attack of conscience, I think.

Candidly, I don't think there is a whole lot that can be done, however.

We have an aging population, medicine is getting better and more expensive because it's getting better, and those two things all by themselves are enough to make the cost of health care increase faster than the rate of inflation.

What we are going to have to do, I suspect, if decide that HC which offers us a diminishing rate of return, isn't going to be funded.

And when that means that your or my dying Mama doesn't get to linger at death's door for an additionally six months; when that means that they pull the plug and let the dying die without attempting those heroic but usually pointless things to keep them alive past their due dates, then the American people are going to object to that policy decision very stenuously.

 

[DamnYankee]

Perhaps they had an attack of reality?

Understanding that the American people are so pissed that they might sign onto fully socialized medicine, if something isn't done soon, might have something to do with their sudden attack of conscience, I think.

Candidly, I don't think there is a whole lot that can be done, however.

We have an aging population, medicine is getting better and more expensive because it's getting better, and those two things all by themselves are enough to make the cost of health care increase faster than the rate of inflation.

What we are going to have to do, I suspect, if decide that HC which offers us a diminishing rate of return, isn't going to be funded.

And when that means that your or my dying Mama doesn't get to linger at death's door for an additionally six months; when that means that they pull the plug and let the dying die without attempting those heroic but usually pointless things to keep them alive past their due dates, then the American people are going to object to that policy decision very stenuously.

You know what? I'd appreciate it if you left my dead mother out of this, especially since her death had nothing to do with the failures of the health care system.

Now, although I'm not "on board" with Obama's plan/proposal, I'd certainly be most interested in where, exactly, you came upon your understanding that "the American people might sign onto fully socialized medicine". I'll wait....

 

[DamnYankee]

An update, as read from Paul Krugman.

May 22, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Blue Double Cross
By PAUL KRUGMAN
That didnt take long. Less than two weeks have passed since much of the medical-industrial complex made a big show of working with President Obama on health care reform and the double-crossing is already well under way. Indeed, its now clear that even as they met with the president, pretending to be cooperative, insurers were gearing up to play the same destructive role they did the last time health reform was on the agenda.

So heres the question: Will Mr. Obama gloss over the reality of whats happening, and try to preserve the appearance of cooperation? Or will he honor his own pledge, made back during the campaign, to go on the offensive against special interests if they stand in the way of reform?

continued....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/opinion/22krugman.html?

 

[JW Frogen]

An update, as read from Paul Krugman.

May 22, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Blue Double Cross
By PAUL KRUGMAN
That didnt take long. Less than two weeks have passed since much of the medical-industrial complex made a big show of working with President Obama on health care reform and the double-crossing is already well under way. Indeed, its now clear that even as they met with the president, pretending to be cooperative, insurers were gearing up to play the same destructive role they did the last time health reform was on the agenda.

So heres the question: Will Mr. Obama gloss over the reality of whats happening, and try to preserve the appearance of cooperation? Or will he honor his own pledge, made back during the campaign, to go on the offensive against special interests if they stand in the way of reform?

continued....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/opinion/22krugman.html?

Obama, like God, will tell you want to hear.


Then, you have to do the hard work of finding truth, and living a true life.

Obama really can't help you with that. God Kant either.

Only you can.

 

[DamnYankee]

An update, as read from Paul Krugman.

May 22, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Blue Double Cross
By PAUL KRUGMAN
That didnt take long. Less than two weeks have passed since much of the medical-industrial complex made a big show of working with President Obama on health care reform and the double-crossing is already well under way. Indeed, its now clear that even as they met with the president, pretending to be cooperative, insurers were gearing up to play the same destructive role they did the last time health reform was on the agenda.

So heres the question: Will Mr. Obama gloss over the reality of whats happening, and try to preserve the appearance of cooperation? Or will he honor his own pledge, made back during the campaign, to go on the offensive against special interests if they stand in the way of reform?

continued....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/opinion/22krugman.html?

Obama, like God, will tell you want to hear.


Then, you have to do the hard work of finding truth, and living a true life.

Obama really can't help you with that. God Kant either.

Only you can.

Apparently, that includes insurers....

 

[editec]

Perhaps they had an attack of reality?

Understanding that the American people are so pissed that they might sign onto fully socialized medicine, if something isn't done soon, might have something to do with their sudden attack of conscience, I think.

Candidly, I don't think there is a whole lot that can be done, however.

We have an aging population, medicine is getting better and more expensive because it's getting better, and those two things all by themselves are enough to make the cost of health care increase faster than the rate of inflation.

What we are going to have to do, I suspect, if decide that HC which offers us a diminishing rate of return, isn't going to be funded.

And when that means that your or my dying Mama doesn't get to linger at death's door for an additionally six months; when that means that they pull the plug and let the dying die without attempting those heroic but usually pointless things to keep them alive past their due dates, then the American people are going to object to that policy decision very stenuously.

You know what? I'd appreciate it if you left my dead mother out of this, especially since her death had nothing to do with the failures of the health care system.

Oh spare me your protests. If you're so dense that you think I was talking about YOUR mother, rather than understanding I was using the universal "you" to make my point, you are either seeking to find things to take umbrage with, or are as dumb as a post.

Now, although I'm not "on board" with Obama's plan/proposal, I'd certainly be most interested in where, exactly, you came upon your understanding that "the American people might sign onto fully socialized medicine". I'll wait....

Instinct.

 

[Old Rocks]

More than instinct. The European nations, Japan, and Taiwan, all have health care systems that are getting superior results at far less costs than we are. There people live longer, have a healthier old age, and a far lower infant mortality than we do.

Nobody in these nations goes bankrupt because of medical bills. Nobody loses their insurance because of the loss of a job. And their people do not have to choose between pharmaceuticals neccessary for their living and food.

The people on the factory floor know all of this, and this financial debacle has highlighted the injustices in our health system. Time for a change.

 

[DamnYankee]

Now, although I'm not "on board" with Obama's plan/proposal, I'd certainly be most interested in where, exactly, you came upon your understanding that "the American people might sign onto fully socialized medicine". I'll wait....

Instinct.

Well, that certainly is objective, well researched, and well thought out.

Oh, and the dead mother comment was supposed to be light sarcastic humor. I keep forgetting that I'm still new here....

 

[DamnYankee]

the American people might sign onto fully socialized medicine

More than instinct. The European nations, Japan, and Taiwan, all have health care systems that are getting superior results at far less costs than we are. There people live longer, have a healthier old age, and a far lower infant mortality than we do.

Nobody in these nations goes bankrupt because of medical bills. Nobody loses their insurance because of the loss of a job. And their people do not have to choose between pharmaceuticals neccessary for their living and food.

The people on the factory floor know all of this, and this financial debacle has highlighted the injustices in our health system. Time for a change.

Damned right it is. But it's time to CHANGE (translated reform) the overlapping, dysfunctional socialized medicine we already provide BEFORE adding yet another layer to it. I've seen nothing from Obama or his team of health care advisors to indicate that he plans to do so, or that they plan to incorporate these into a NEW socialized medicine. That would be despite the fact that one of those is on the brink of insolvency AND that, according to the President himself, "we are out of money".