What I find amazing is that the very same people who are so "outraged" by the trillion and a half dollars of debt that Reagan added are perfectly fine with the 6 trillion in debt that Obama has added. Not only are you fine with it...YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR MORE!!!
Wow, the Left really turning on Obama
- Thread starter Mac1958
- Start date
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
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Are you THAT dishonest or THAT ******* obtuse?
SO, Obama is responsible for:
1) Bush-Era Tax Cuts
2) War in Iraq and Afghanistan
3) TARP, Fannie, and Freddie
4) Economic Downturn
I had a flat tire yesterday...fuckin' Obama!!!
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
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WHAT people should be outraged about...
Democrats are 'tax and spend'...they PAY FOR what they spend with REVENUE...
Republicans, who unanimously rejected PAY-GO (pay as you go), are BORROW and spend...the welfare mentality.
WHY did they reject PAY-GO? Because that would put them in the politically fatal position of having to possibly approve increases in revenue.
They would be run out of office by Grover Norquist and the Club for 'Growth'...
"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)
Democrats are 'tax and spend'...they PAY FOR what they spend with REVENUE...
Republicans, who unanimously rejected PAY-GO (pay as you go), are BORROW and spend...the welfare mentality.
WHY did they reject PAY-GO? Because that would put them in the politically fatal position of having to possibly approve increases in revenue.
They would be run out of office by Grover Norquist and the Club for 'Growth'...
"Grover Norquist has no plan to pay this debt down. His plan says you continue to add to the debt..."
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.)
ChrisL
Diamond Member
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Well, no, no one asked for more. We think we should make the rich pay their fair share and have balanced budgets.
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
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Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
I think both parties are just as bad. Neither one is better than the other. Both have serious flaws and issues and both are much too powerful. WE need some viable 3rd party candidates, IMO.
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
I think both parties are just as bad. Neither one is better than the other. Both have serious flaws and issues and both are much too powerful. WE need some viable 3rd party candidates, IMO.
You are welcome to be wrong.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
I think both parties are just as bad. Neither one is better than the other. Both have serious flaws and issues and both are much too powerful. WE need some viable 3rd party candidates, IMO.
You are welcome to be wrong.
And you are welcome to be gullible to believe that either party would care about you instead of their party politics and lining their pockets. You do realize that among the richest politicians are some democrats?
turtledude
Minnow Control Specialist
rich republicans tend to be rich despite the government
rich democrats tend to be rich because of the government
rich democrats tend to be rich because of the government
ChrisL
Diamond Member
turtledude
Minnow Control Specialist
I trust rich people who don't whine about the rich more than rich people who pretend to whine about the rich to buy the votes of the low wattage
Later
ChrisL
Diamond Member
I trust rich people who don't whine about the rich more than rich people who pretend to whine about the rich to buy the votes of the low wattage
Later
Well why would rich people whine about rich people anyway?
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
I think both parties are just as bad. Neither one is better than the other. Both have serious flaws and issues and both are much too powerful. WE need some viable 3rd party candidates, IMO.
You are welcome to be wrong.
And you are welcome to be gullible to believe that either party would care about you instead of their party politics and lining their pockets. You do realize that among the richest politicians are some democrats?
A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
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There you go Chris...the dogma driven right parrots talking points again...
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
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It all depends what you classify as scummy.
Is helping people 'scummy'?
or
Is throwing people in the river to sink or swim 'scummy'?
Are they both the SAME Chris?
jasonnfree
Gold Member
- May 23, 2012
- 10,512
- 2,336
- 280
Let's be honest, one party is not perfect, the other one blows.
The pure DOGMA of the right...
Grover Norquist's hold on the GOP
(CBS News) As head of Americans for Tax Reform since 1986, Grover Norquist has transformed a single issue - preventing tax hikes - into one of the key platforms of the Republican Party. As Steve Kroft reports, his biggest coup was getting more than 270 members of Congress, and nearly all of the 2012 Republican presidential primary candidates, to sign a pledge promising never to vote to raise taxes. But some opponents say the pledge may be hindering a solution to America's debt crisis.
The Joint Congressional Committee on Deficit Reduction has just three days to reach a deal eliminating at least $1.2 trillion from the nation's debt using some combination of cutting spending and raising taxes.
The person at the heart of those negotiations - and some would say the person responsible for the deadlock - is neither a member of Congress nor the holder of any public office. He is a lobbyist and a conservative activist named Grover Norquist who, over the years, has gotten virtually every Republican congressman and senator to sign an oath called "The Pledge." It's a promise that they will never, under any circumstances, vote to raise taxes on anyone. And so far Grover Norquist has held them to it, controlling 279 votes, including the speaker of the House, the Senate minority leader and all six Republican members of the Joint Committee on Deficit Reduction.
Since creating Americans for Tax Reform at Ronald Reagan's behest back in 1985, Norquist has been responsible, more than anyone else, for rewriting the dogma of the Republican Party.
It began with the simple idea of getting Republicans all over the country to sign an oath called the "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," promising their constituents that they would never, ever vote for anything that would make their taxes go up.
[Norquist: This is Speaker Gingrich's tax pledge back in 1998...]
And once they sign the pledge, Grover Norquist never forgets. The more signatures he's collected, the more his influence has grown.
Norquist: I think to win a Republican primary-- It is difficult to imagine somebody winning a primary without taking the pledge.
The signatories not only include more than 270 members of Congress, but all of the Republican presidential candidates, with the lone exception of John Huntsman.
Grover Norquist has been called both the "dark wizard of the right's anti-tax cult" and "the single most effective conservative activist in the country." He is a libertarian ideologue who believes that Washington is controlling our lives through the taxes it raises to fund big government. And he's said that he wants to shrink it to a size where it could be drowned in a bathtub.
Kroft: You wanna drown it in the bathtub?
Norquist: No. We want it down to the size to where it would fit in a bathtub. And then it could worry about what we were up to.
Kroft: I mean, you did say that your ultimate ambition was to chop it in half and then shrink it again to where we were at the turn of the century. You're talking about 1900 not 2000.
Norquist: Well, the-- I think--
Kroft: Eight percent of GDP.
Norquist: Yeah. We functioned in this country with government at eight percent of GDP for a long time and quite well.
Kroft: That was before Social Security. It was before Medicare. It was before welfare assistance, unemployment assistance. Is that the federal government you envision?
Norquist: Each of these government programs were set up supposedly, in name, to solve a problem. Okay. Do they solve the problem? Could the problem be better solved through individual initiative? I mean, I think we've found under welfare that we are doing more harm than good.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
How patriotic these republican politicians were. Voted into office to serve we the people, receiving salaries and benefits from we the people. Then they sign a pledge or an oath to serve the wishes of some guy that runs a right wing think tank.
ChrisL
Diamond Member
It all depends what you classify as scummy.
Is helping people 'scummy'?
or
Is throwing people in the river to sink or swim 'scummy'?
Are they both the SAME Chris?
I don't think either party cares about us, TBH.
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
It all depends what you classify as scummy.
Is helping people 'scummy'?
or
Is throwing people in the river to sink or swim 'scummy'?
Are they both the SAME Chris?
I don't think either party cares about us, TBH.
OK, I understand...
Helping people and throwing them in the river to sink or swim IS the same.
Kroft: Do you feel the government has any obligation to the poor or the elderly or the unemployed?
Norquist: Yeah. It should stop stepping on them, kicking them and making their lives more difficult.
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