CDZ Would you support enhanced interrogation if:

[Coyote]

Let me know when you subject yourself to water boarding at the hands of an enemy captor and you have no idea whether they will kill you or not.

It is ironic that, according to one of your quotes, what makes waterboarding “not torture” is defined by who the victim is, not the act. That is seriously warped.

We waterboard our Navy Seals and used to do it to all of our SERE course trainees...pilots and other military personnel.....it is not torture....and the fact that the actual POWs tell you this shows you are immune to facts.

When Stephen Crowder can undergo waterboarding as part of a Christmas show, it demonstrates how not torture waterboarding is...

There is a HUGE difference between being water boarded in friendly hands knowing you won’t die, and being in the hands of an enemy...waterboarded again and again. Let me know when you have experienced it.

No, there isn't.....the interrogators said the terrorists knew we weren't going to kill them because they had trained in resistance techniques.....they counted to 10 on their fingers so the interrogators could see them doing it since they knew each pour of water could only be 10 seconds...so the terrorists also knew they wouldn't be killed......and they still gave up the information....you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me know when you get your two front teeth knocked out with a chisel.....and if Christopher Hitchens can get waterboarded, I know I can too...can you loose two front teeth to a chisel?

You know you can too? Put yourself in the hands of NK and tell them to waterboard you.

I will be waterboarded by Americans using the CIA protocols...the ones used on the terrorists.... again, the socialists didn't do the same thing......

And you know these protocols were used....how? What happened to the videos?

So, unlike these prisoners, you would not subject yourself to waterboarding at the hands of an enemy trying to extract information from you. You would play it safe.

Big difference.

 

[Coyote]

They are both torture. Quit trying to defend it because it differs in degree.

Wrong......I will listen to the 3 POWs who actually know what torture is, because they endured it for years under the socialists...

McCain’s fellow POWs support waterboarding

When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp.

When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

I asked Day in an e-mail what he would say to the CIA officer who waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, if he had the chance to speak with him. Day replied immediately: “YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.”

And the other Congressional of Medal Awardee...also agrees......waterboarding is not torture.....

Like Day, Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War. He experienced excruciating torture during his captivity — his back broken, his body wrenched apart. He says what the CIA did to al-Qaeda terrorists in its custody was not torture:

“To me, waterboarding is intensive interrogation. It is not torture. Torture involves extreme, brutal pain — breaking bones, passing out from pain, beatings so severe that blood spatters the walls . . . when you pop shoulders out of joints.. . . In my mind, there’s a difference, and in most POWs’ minds there’s a difference.. . . I would not hesitate a second to use ‘enhanced interrogation,’ including waterboarding, if it would save the lives of innocent people.”

And the most famous supporter of water boarding......

Another torture victim who supports waterboarding is Adm. Jeremiah Denton — the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview.

It was the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured. Denton later received the Navy Cross for this courageous and costly act of defiance, for which he paid dearly when his captors figured out what he had done. I asked Denton if he thought waterboarding was torture. He told me:

“No, I think it’s persuasive.. . . The big, monstrous difference here is that the gentlemen we are waterboarding are people who swore to kill Americans. They will wreak any kind of torture just for the hell of it on anybody. When they are captured by the U.S., and we know or have reason to believe that they know of a subsequent event after 9/11, if you don’t interrogate them, more misery will take place.. . . Waterboarding is not an evil. Some of the things they did to us were torture. I passed out a dozen times from torture. We’re not exerting that kind of excruciation.”

Let me know when you subject yourself to water boarding at the hands of an enemy captor and you have no idea whether they will kill you or not.

It is ironic that, according to one of your quotes, what makes waterboarding “not torture” is defined by who the victim is, not the act. That is seriously warped.

Hey,...I'll undergo waterboarding it you undergo actual torture...we'll make it a contest...I will be waterboarded, you will have your front two teeth knocked out with a hammer and chisel...then we will compare notes and discuss which is torture and which isn't...

LOLOL

I like how you try to argue Waterboarding is not torture because knocking out someone’s teeth is.

3 actual experts in torture say it isn't...you might want to pay attention to people who know what they are talking about....

McCain’s fellow POWs support waterboarding

When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp.

When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

I asked Day in an e-mail what he would say to the CIA officer who waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, if he had the chance to speak with him. Day replied immediately: “YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.”

And the other Congressional of Medal Awardee...also agrees......waterboarding is not torture.....

Like Day, Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War. He experienced excruciating torture during his captivity — his back broken, his body wrenched apart. He says what the CIA did to al-Qaeda terrorists in its custody was not torture:

“To me, waterboarding is intensive interrogation. It is not torture. Torture involves extreme, brutal pain — breaking bones, passing out from pain, beatings so severe that blood spatters the walls . . . when you pop shoulders out of joints.. . . In my mind, there’s a difference, and in most POWs’ minds there’s a difference.. . . I would not hesitate a second to use ‘enhanced interrogation,’ including waterboarding, if it would save the lives of innocent people.”

And the most famous supporter of water boarding......

Another torture victim who supports waterboarding is Adm. Jeremiah Denton — the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview.

It was the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured. Denton later received the Navy Cross for this courageous and costly act of defiance, for which he paid dearly when his captors figured out what he had done. I asked Denton if he thought waterboarding was torture. He told me:

“No, I think it’s persuasive.. . . The big, monstrous difference here is that the gentlemen we are waterboarding are people who swore to kill Americans. They will wreak any kind of torture just for the hell of it on anybody. When they are captured by the U.S., and we know or have reason to believe that they know of a subsequent event after 9/11, if you don’t interrogate them, more misery will take place.. . . Waterboarding is not an evil. Some of the things they did to us were torture. I passed out a dozen times from torture. We’re not exerting that kind of excruciation.”

You already posted this same cut and paste.

 

[Pop23]

Maybe just announce that we have a terrorist and since he won’t tell us what we need to know, he will be released at 5 o’clock at 5th and main. The police will immediately leave.

Better?

 

[Faun]

Be real, folks!
First, it is absolutely inadmissible that America, land of the free, etc., have as an approved policy that torture be not only tolerated, but approved. The image is too ugly to accept. The damage to U.S. reputation is too much to pay. We can't be a country like that.
Second, of course anyone, anywhere, would use whatever means it took to dislodge information of the imagined magnitude presented in this thread. It doesn't have to be said and discussed. That only makes it seem even more hypocritical if things ever come to that.
Third, short of some extreme, absurd situation imagined here, torture is out of the question. Nyet. Nichts. Non. Basta. It is something only the disgusting would be involved in, or encourage!

waterboarding isn't torture.....we did it to our military personel....

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That was one of several water techniques they used......they also put prisoners upside down into tubs of water....

So you say. Meanwhile, I just quoted someone who was a victim of that practice at the hands of the Japanese guy who we tried, and convicted, of torture, which included waterboarding.

Sorry, but you don’t get to redefine terminology.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Maybe just announce that we have a terrorist and since he won’t tell us what we need to know, he will be released at 5 o’clock at 5th and main. The police will immediately leave.

Better?

The only thing that would make it better for some people would be if he was supplied with weapons of mass destruction upon being released.

After all, we are talking about Islamic Terrorists, here.

 

[2aguy]

waterboarding isn't torture.....we did it to our military personel....

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That was one of several water techniques they used......they also put prisoners upside down into tubs of water....

So you say. Meanwhile, I just quoted someone who was a victim of that practice at the hands of the Japanese guy who we tried, and convicted, of torture, which included waterboarding.

Sorry, but you don’t get to redefine terminology.

Yeah...and you used the same technique my link talked about.....waterboarding was one technique they used out of all the war crimes they committed, and the other war crimes are what got them executed......and again, the Japanese used many forms of actual water torture....including filling up stomachs with water, and putting POWs upside down in tubs of water....

 

[Coyote]

Maybe just announce that we have a terrorist and since he won’t tell us what we need to know, he will be released at 5 o’clock at 5th and main. The police will immediately leave.

Better?

The only thing that would make it better for some people would be if he was supplied with weapons of mass destruction upon being released.

After all, we are talking about Islamic Terrorists, here.

The OP said nothing about that.

 

[2aguy]

We waterboard our Navy Seals and used to do it to all of our SERE course trainees...pilots and other military personnel.....it is not torture....and the fact that the actual POWs tell you this shows you are immune to facts.

When Stephen Crowder can undergo waterboarding as part of a Christmas show, it demonstrates how not torture waterboarding is...

There is a HUGE difference between being water boarded in friendly hands knowing you won’t die, and being in the hands of an enemy...waterboarded again and again. Let me know when you have experienced it.

No, there isn't.....the interrogators said the terrorists knew we weren't going to kill them because they had trained in resistance techniques.....they counted to 10 on their fingers so the interrogators could see them doing it since they knew each pour of water could only be 10 seconds...so the terrorists also knew they wouldn't be killed......and they still gave up the information....you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me know when you get your two front teeth knocked out with a chisel.....and if Christopher Hitchens can get waterboarded, I know I can too...can you loose two front teeth to a chisel?

You know you can too? Put yourself in the hands of NK and tell them to waterboard you.

I will be waterboarded by Americans using the CIA protocols...the ones used on the terrorists.... again, the socialists didn't do the same thing......

And you know these protocols were used....how? What happened to the videos?

So, unlike these prisoners, you would not subject yourself to waterboarding at the hands of an enemy trying to extract information from you. You would play it safe.

Big difference.

No...I would be waterboarded using the techniques the CIA actually used.....they are not the same as what the socialists use.....that is the difference, the socialists torture people, the CIA uses waterboarding.....

 

[KissMy]

Does Muller get to torture Trump & his Conspirators?

 

[Coyote]

There is a HUGE difference between being water boarded in friendly hands knowing you won’t die, and being in the hands of an enemy...waterboarded again and again. Let me know when you have experienced it.

No, there isn't.....the interrogators said the terrorists knew we weren't going to kill them because they had trained in resistance techniques.....they counted to 10 on their fingers so the interrogators could see them doing it since they knew each pour of water could only be 10 seconds...so the terrorists also knew they wouldn't be killed......and they still gave up the information....you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me know when you get your two front teeth knocked out with a chisel.....and if Christopher Hitchens can get waterboarded, I know I can too...can you loose two front teeth to a chisel?

You know you can too? Put yourself in the hands of NK and tell them to waterboard you.

I will be waterboarded by Americans using the CIA protocols...the ones used on the terrorists.... again, the socialists didn't do the same thing......

And you know these protocols were used....how? What happened to the videos?

So, unlike these prisoners, you would not subject yourself to waterboarding at the hands of an enemy trying to extract information from you. You would play it safe.

Big difference.

No...I would be waterboarded using the techniques the CIA actually used.....they are not the same as what the socialists use.....that is the difference, the socialists torture people, the CIA uses waterboarding.....

Again, how do you know those are the techniques actually used? What happened to the videos?

 

[Faun]

Be real, folks!
First, it is absolutely inadmissible that America, land of the free, etc., have as an approved policy that torture be not only tolerated, but approved. The image is too ugly to accept. The damage to U.S. reputation is too much to pay. We can't be a country like that.
Second, of course anyone, anywhere, would use whatever means it took to dislodge information of the imagined magnitude presented in this thread. It doesn't have to be said and discussed. That only makes it seem even more hypocritical if things ever come to that.
Third, short of some extreme, absurd situation imagined here, torture is out of the question. Nyet. Nichts. Non. Basta. It is something only the disgusting would be involved in, or encourage!

waterboarding isn't torture.....we did it to our military personel....

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That isn't how the CIA did it.......not even close.....

Sorry, Paul Begala — You’re Still Wrong | National Review

Nonsense.

I post this...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

And then you post this...

In waterboarding as it is practiced by the U.S., cellophane or cloth is placed over the subject’s mouth to keep water out of nose and mouth.​

... and you claim it’s not even close.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

The OP said nothing about that.

I was responding to what Pops said, but thanks, anyway.

 

[Faun]

Let me know when you subject yourself to water boarding at the hands of an enemy captor and you have no idea whether they will kill you or not.

It is ironic that, according to one of your quotes, what makes waterboarding “not torture” is defined by who the victim is, not the act. That is seriously warped.

We waterboard our Navy Seals and used to do it to all of our SERE course trainees...pilots and other military personnel.....it is not torture....and the fact that the actual POWs tell you this shows you are immune to facts.

When Stephen Crowder can undergo waterboarding as part of a Christmas show, it demonstrates how not torture waterboarding is...

There is a HUGE difference between being water boarded in friendly hands knowing you won’t die, and being in the hands of an enemy...waterboarded again and again. Let me know when you have experienced it.

No, there isn't.....the interrogators said the terrorists knew we weren't going to kill them because they had trained in resistance techniques.....they counted to 10 on their fingers so the interrogators could see them doing it since they knew each pour of water could only be 10 seconds...so the terrorists also knew they wouldn't be killed......and they still gave up the information....you don't know what you are talking about.

Let me know when you get your two front teeth knocked out with a chisel.....and if Christopher Hitchens can get waterboarded, I know I can too...can you loose two front teeth to a chisel?

You know you can too? Put yourself in the hands of NK and tell them to waterboard you.

I will be waterboarded by Americans using the CIA protocols...the ones used on the terrorists.... again, the socialists didn't do the same thing......

What socialists?

 

[2aguy]

waterboarding isn't torture.....we did it to our military personel....

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That isn't how the CIA did it.......not even close.....

Sorry, Paul Begala — You’re Still Wrong | National Review

Nonsense.

I post this...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

And then you post this...

In waterboarding as it is practiced by the U.S., cellophane or cloth is placed over the subject’s mouth to keep water out of nose and mouth.​

... and you claim it’s not even close.

No...it isn't even close....the CIA poured for 10 seconds at a time, allowing recovery between pours...the Japanese, from your account didn't do that....and that was just one thing they did with water

 

[Faun]

They are both torture. Quit trying to defend it because it differs in degree.

Wrong......I will listen to the 3 POWs who actually know what torture is, because they endured it for years under the socialists...

McCain’s fellow POWs support waterboarding

When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp.

When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

I asked Day in an e-mail what he would say to the CIA officer who waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, if he had the chance to speak with him. Day replied immediately: “YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.”

And the other Congressional of Medal Awardee...also agrees......waterboarding is not torture.....

Like Day, Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War. He experienced excruciating torture during his captivity — his back broken, his body wrenched apart. He says what the CIA did to al-Qaeda terrorists in its custody was not torture:

“To me, waterboarding is intensive interrogation. It is not torture. Torture involves extreme, brutal pain — breaking bones, passing out from pain, beatings so severe that blood spatters the walls . . . when you pop shoulders out of joints.. . . In my mind, there’s a difference, and in most POWs’ minds there’s a difference.. . . I would not hesitate a second to use ‘enhanced interrogation,’ including waterboarding, if it would save the lives of innocent people.”

And the most famous supporter of water boarding......

Another torture victim who supports waterboarding is Adm. Jeremiah Denton — the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview.

It was the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured. Denton later received the Navy Cross for this courageous and costly act of defiance, for which he paid dearly when his captors figured out what he had done. I asked Denton if he thought waterboarding was torture. He told me:

“No, I think it’s persuasive.. . . The big, monstrous difference here is that the gentlemen we are waterboarding are people who swore to kill Americans. They will wreak any kind of torture just for the hell of it on anybody. When they are captured by the U.S., and we know or have reason to believe that they know of a subsequent event after 9/11, if you don’t interrogate them, more misery will take place.. . . Waterboarding is not an evil. Some of the things they did to us were torture. I passed out a dozen times from torture. We’re not exerting that kind of excruciation.”

Let me know when you subject yourself to water boarding at the hands of an enemy captor and you have no idea whether they will kill you or not.

It is ironic that, according to one of your quotes, what makes waterboarding “not torture” is defined by who the victim is, not the act. That is seriously warped.

Hey,...I'll undergo waterboarding it you undergo actual torture...we'll make it a contest...I will be waterboarded, you will have your front two teeth knocked out with a hammer and chisel...then we will compare notes and discuss which is torture and which isn't...

LOLOL

I like how you try to argue Waterboarding is not torture because knocking out someone’s teeth is.

3 actual experts in torture say it isn't...you might want to pay attention to people who know what they are talking about....

McCain’s fellow POWs support waterboarding

When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp.

When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

I asked Day in an e-mail what he would say to the CIA officer who waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, if he had the chance to speak with him. Day replied immediately: “YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.”

And the other Congressional of Medal Awardee...also agrees......waterboarding is not torture.....

Like Day, Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War. He experienced excruciating torture during his captivity — his back broken, his body wrenched apart. He says what the CIA did to al-Qaeda terrorists in its custody was not torture:

“To me, waterboarding is intensive interrogation. It is not torture. Torture involves extreme, brutal pain — breaking bones, passing out from pain, beatings so severe that blood spatters the walls . . . when you pop shoulders out of joints.. . . In my mind, there’s a difference, and in most POWs’ minds there’s a difference.. . . I would not hesitate a second to use ‘enhanced interrogation,’ including waterboarding, if it would save the lives of innocent people.”

And the most famous supporter of water boarding......

Another torture victim who supports waterboarding is Adm. Jeremiah Denton — the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview.

It was the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured. Denton later received the Navy Cross for this courageous and costly act of defiance, for which he paid dearly when his captors figured out what he had done. I asked Denton if he thought waterboarding was torture. He told me:

“No, I think it’s persuasive.. . . The big, monstrous difference here is that the gentlemen we are waterboarding are people who swore to kill Americans. They will wreak any kind of torture just for the hell of it on anybody. When they are captured by the U.S., and we know or have reason to believe that they know of a subsequent event after 9/11, if you don’t interrogate them, more misery will take place.. . . Waterboarding is not an evil. Some of the things they did to us were torture. I passed out a dozen times from torture. We’re not exerting that kind of excruciation.”

LOLOL

What is that supposed to mean??

Because they share your opinion means you get to be allowed to redefine words?

Like you, they’re certainly entitled to their opinion, but as in this example where one of them actually said, ”I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone,” is absolutely ludicrous and does not match the actual definition of torture, which does not require physical pain to be torture.

Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture:

"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."​

 

[Faun]

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That isn't how the CIA did it.......not even close.....

Sorry, Paul Begala — You’re Still Wrong | National Review

Nonsense.

I post this...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

And then you post this...

In waterboarding as it is practiced by the U.S., cellophane or cloth is placed over the subject’s mouth to keep water out of nose and mouth.​

... and you claim it’s not even close.

No...it isn't even close....the CIA poured for 10 seconds at a time, allowing recovery between pours...the Japanese, from your account didn't do that....and that was just one thing they did with water

LOL

Now you’re actually trying to argue the same technique is not waterboarding because we do it for only 10 seconds.

Even worse for you — once again, you claims don’t match reality as the CIA said the process lasted between 20 to 40 seconds...

​

 

[Dale Smith]

Nope, torture is a barbaric practice that will never lead to credible information. Most terrorist acts are perpetuated by our very own corporate "gubermint" including 9/11/01, the OKC bombing and false flags like the sinking of the Maine and the Lusitania, etc, etc.... I would LOVE to see the last five CIA directors waterboarded and subject to the very type of interrogation techniques that they subject others to. When we accept torture to be used on alleged "enemy combatants" are we not then being led down the road where we will be fine with Americans being tortured because "da gubermint' claims that they are potential enemies of the state? Remember the Inquisition done by the Jesuits against heretics that would not bow to papal authority after the Reformation led by Martin Luther?

 

[Dogmaphobe]

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

What I see is your claims don’t match the record recorded testimony...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

That isn't how the CIA did it.......not even close.....

Sorry, Paul Begala — You’re Still Wrong | National Review

Nonsense.

I post this...

”Yuki placed some cloth on my face. And then with water from the faucet, they poured on me until I became unconscious. He repeated that four or five times.”​

And then you post this...

In waterboarding as it is practiced by the U.S., cellophane or cloth is placed over the subject’s mouth to keep water out of nose and mouth.​

... and you claim it’s not even close.

No...it isn't even close....the CIA poured for 10 seconds at a time, allowing recovery between pours...the Japanese, from your account didn't do that....and that was just one thing they did with water

LOL

Now you’re actually trying to argue the same technique is not waterboarding because we do it for only 10 seconds.

Even worse for you — once again, you claims don’t match reality as the CIA said the process lasted between 20 to 40 seconds...

​

He has been quite articulate in pointing out the notion of DEGREE.

This is a notion understood by those who are actually opposed to Islamic terrorism.

 

[blackhawk]

If the so called proven interrogation techniques don't work what then? In a perfect world the less extreme interrogation techniques would always work but this is not a perfect world and they don't work on everyone and sometimes you have to use more harsh methods to get information using such methods should not be taken lightly but nor should they be just dismissed either.

 

[flacaltenn]

waterboarding isn't torture.....we did it to our military personel....

Of course it’s torture. You should know this as even the U.S. officially called it torture when the Japanese did it to our servicemen in WWII. You don’t get to redefine words to suit your agenda. Torture is physical or mental abuse. Convincing someone they’re drowning is absolutely mental abuse.

What the Japanese did is not what we did.....you should try to know what you are talking about before you post....

We poured water over a cloth covering their faces, filling their sinuses....the Japanes forced hoses down the throats of POWs filling their stomachs to capcity, then jumped on the abdomens of the prisoners with both feet to force the water out explosively...

do you see what the difference in the two techniques are?

They are both torture. Quit trying to defend it because it differs in degree.

Wrong......I will listen to the 3 POWs who actually know what torture is, because they endured it for years under the socialists...

McCain’s fellow POWs support waterboarding

When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp.

When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

“I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

I asked Day in an e-mail what he would say to the CIA officer who waterboarded Khalid Sheik Mohammed, if he had the chance to speak with him. Day replied immediately: “YOU DID THE RIGHT THING.”

And the other Congressional of Medal Awardee...also agrees......waterboarding is not torture.....

Like Day, Col. Leo Thorsness was awarded the Medal of Honor for extraordinary heroism during the Vietnam War. He experienced excruciating torture during his captivity — his back broken, his body wrenched apart. He says what the CIA did to al-Qaeda terrorists in its custody was not torture:

“To me, waterboarding is intensive interrogation. It is not torture. Torture involves extreme, brutal pain — breaking bones, passing out from pain, beatings so severe that blood spatters the walls . . . when you pop shoulders out of joints.. . . In my mind, there’s a difference, and in most POWs’ minds there’s a difference.. . . I would not hesitate a second to use ‘enhanced interrogation,’ including waterboarding, if it would save the lives of innocent people.”

And the most famous supporter of water boarding......

Another torture victim who supports waterboarding is Adm. Jeremiah Denton — the POW who famously winked the word “T-O-R-T-U-R-E” in Morse code during a North Vietnamese propaganda interview.

It was the first message to the outside world that American prisoners were being tortured. Denton later received the Navy Cross for this courageous and costly act of defiance, for which he paid dearly when his captors figured out what he had done. I asked Denton if he thought waterboarding was torture. He told me:

“No, I think it’s persuasive.. . . The big, monstrous difference here is that the gentlemen we are waterboarding are people who swore to kill Americans. They will wreak any kind of torture just for the hell of it on anybody. When they are captured by the U.S., and we know or have reason to believe that they know of a subsequent event after 9/11, if you don’t interrogate them, more misery will take place.. . . Waterboarding is not an evil. Some of the things they did to us were torture. I passed out a dozen times from torture. We’re not exerting that kind of excruciation.”

Let me know when you subject yourself to water boarding at the hands of an enemy captor and you have no idea whether they will kill you or not.

It is ironic that, according to one of your quotes, what makes waterboarding “not torture” is defined by who the victim is, not the act. That is seriously warped.

10s of thousands of our military are water-boarded in survival training. It's actually a mental stressor and not likely to cause permanent physical damage.

Waterboarding: A SERE-ing Experience for Tens of Thousands of US Military Personnel | Human Events


On the OP scenario ---

I would have to TRY to break the suspect in order to protect 100s of thousands or millions of lives. Sorry, but when the dirty bomb explodes and radioactively contaminates downtown Chicago for the next 1000 years, I'm gonna regret living if I didn't push for information. I don't know how anybody could live with the guilt of not trying.

There ARE possible scenarios where you need to push for ANY leads. Good, bad or indifferent.

And --- the media and the public will SKEWER the people in charge if it's known they had a conspirator in custody and DID NOT attempt to save those lives and the 1000 years of radioactive Chicago..