Would you support a presidential candidate who held that biblical law superceded the Constitution?

[bodecea]

No, it is not. You are now trying to imply that was the source for Madison's idea without any actual writing by Madison about it. That lacks integrity.

No I am trying to find the actual facts based on it.
It is hard to find because it has been buried in liberal lies of the US being Secular for over 50 years.
It seems that it is not on the Internet of course.
I just need some time to research it in my history books of which there are hundreds of and find it for everyone to see and read.
I will find it and then post it.
Just give me a little time to read and research it.

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Are you saying Madison had the Bible memorized?

 

[peach174]

No I am trying to find the actual facts based on it.
It is hard to find because it has been buried in liberal lies of the US being Secular for over 50 years.
It seems that it is not on the Internet of course.
I just need some time to research it in my history books of which there are hundreds of and find it for everyone to see and read.
I will find it and then post it.
Just give me a little time to read and research it.

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Stop it. You said that Isaiah 33:22 inspired the Virginia Plan yet you cannot point to where Madison said or wrote that it did. Fail.

What I said was
Our Documents - Virginia Plan (1787)
Drafted by James Madison, and presented by Edmund Randolph to the Constitutional Convention on May 29, 1787, the Virginia Plan proposed a strong central government composed of three branches: legislative, executive, and judicial.

 

[peach174]

No I am trying to find the actual facts based on it.
It is hard to find because it has been buried in liberal lies of the US being Secular for over 50 years.
It seems that it is not on the Internet of course.
I just need some time to research it in my history books of which there are hundreds of and find it for everyone to see and read.
I will find it and then post it.
Just give me a little time to read and research it.

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Are you saying Madison had the Bible memorized?

How would I know? You are the one speculating about it.
I know he knew it very well like most of the Founders.

 

[Skylar]

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Stop it. You said that Isaiah 33:22 inspired the Virginia Plan yet you cannot point to where Madison said or wrote that it did. Fail.

What I said was
Our Documents - Virginia Plan (1787)
Drafted by James Madison, and presented by Edmund Randolph to the Constitutional Convention on May 29, 1787, the Virginia Plan proposed a strong central government composed of three branches: legislative, executive, and judicial.

Actually, you were very specific about Isaiah. ANd there's no real evidence of that. Its far, far more likely that Madison drew his inspiration from the British system....which had an executive, judiciary and legislative. Even a bi cameral legislature.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If we are looking for the most likely model Madison would examine, then it would certainly be the UK's system and not Isaiah.

 

[thanatos144]

You really should read his notes because that is where it is as well as the Avalon Project Madison Debates.

No, it is not. You are now trying to imply that was the source for Madison's idea without any actual writing by Madison about it. That lacks integrity.

No I am trying to find the actual facts based on it.
It is hard to find because it has been buried in liberal lies of the US being Secular for over 50 years.
It seems that it is not on the Internet of course.
I just need some time to research it in my history books of which there are hundreds of and find it for everyone to see and read.
I will find it and then post it.
Just give me a little time to read and research it.

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

The religion of progessivism is getting pretty damn close

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

 

[thanatos144]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

I agree.

Of course, many Christian religious mores are matched by language of the Constitution. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie etc. It turns out that people who adhere to Christian religions, are already more than halfway to supporting the Constitution - a far better proportion than is found in adherents to Sharia law.

How about people who believe that the religion of Modern Liberalism should supersede the Constitution? They support taxation to transfer funds directly to various special interest groups (forbidden by the Const), and govt getting involved in workplace conditions, land zoning, local environmental conditions, medical insurance, retirement funding, unemployment compensation in various forms, and even the size of our toilets and the kinds of light bulbs we can buy - all functions forbidden to the Fed govt by the Constitution, and reserved instead to the States and the People.

Modern liberalism is a religion, of course: There is no proof that it works (and plenty of evidence to show it doesn't), it is perceived as different things by different people in different places, it requires absolute faith and devotion to its ideals without question, and seeks to destroy anyone who doesn't unquestioningly obey and proselytize it requirements. Its devotees dare not mention its name, and regularly castigate anyone who applied ANY spoken name to it ("We're NOT socialists! We're NOT communists! Don't you DARE call us that! We're NOT....", etc.). And they can tolerate no other religion except Modern Liberalism. They regard anyone who disagrees, as not only wrong but evil.

Does your view that "there is no religion that supercedes[sic] the Constitution", include the religion of Modern Liberalism? What do you propose we should to with the people already in office, who are clearly fanatical devotees to that religion and regularly violate the Constitution to make laws implementing their religion in its place?

Except for the general welfare clause.

And what do you think that means? I am damn sure it doesn't mean break the law and enslave the people like you progressives want

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

 

[sealybobo]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

I agree.

Of course, many Christian religious mores are matched by language of the Constitution. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie etc. It turns out that people who adhere to Christian religions, are already more than halfway to supporting the Constitution - a far better proportion than is found in adherents to Sharia law.

How about people who believe that the religion of Modern Liberalism should supersede the Constitution? They support taxation to transfer funds directly to various special interest groups (forbidden by the Const), and govt getting involved in workplace conditions, land zoning, local environmental conditions, medical insurance, retirement funding, unemployment compensation in various forms, and even the size of our toilets and the kinds of light bulbs we can buy - all functions forbidden to the Fed govt by the Constitution, and reserved instead to the States and the People.

Modern liberalism is a religion, of course: There is no proof that it works (and plenty of evidence to show it doesn't), it is perceived as different things by different people in different places, it requires absolute faith and devotion to its ideals without question, and seeks to destroy anyone who doesn't unquestioningly obey and proselytize it requirements. Its devotees dare not mention its name, and regularly castigate anyone who applied ANY spoken name to it ("We're NOT socialists! We're NOT communists! Don't you DARE call us that! We're NOT....", etc.). And they can tolerate no other religion except Modern Liberalism. They regard anyone who disagrees, as not only wrong but evil.

Does your view that "there is no religion that supercedes[sic] the Constitution", include the religion of Modern Liberalism? What do you propose we should to with the people already in office, who are clearly fanatical devotees to that religion and regularly violate the Constitution to make laws implementing their religion in its place?

Except for the general welfare clause.

And what do you think that means? I am damn sure it doesn't mean break the law and enslave the people like you progressives want

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

You know what? You have a point. I'd rather be a free lion who might get a foot infection and die from it out in the wild than live in a zoo where zoo keepers take care of my every need. I might go hungry or die 5 or 10 years earlier than I would have had I lived in a zoo, but at least I'm free, right?

 

[Asclepias]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

I agree.

Of course, many Christian religious mores are matched by language of the Constitution. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie etc. It turns out that people who adhere to Christian religions, are already more than halfway to supporting the Constitution - a far better proportion than is found in adherents to Sharia law.

How about people who believe that the religion of Modern Liberalism should supersede the Constitution? They support taxation to transfer funds directly to various special interest groups (forbidden by the Const), and govt getting involved in workplace conditions, land zoning, local environmental conditions, medical insurance, retirement funding, unemployment compensation in various forms, and even the size of our toilets and the kinds of light bulbs we can buy - all functions forbidden to the Fed govt by the Constitution, and reserved instead to the States and the People.

Modern liberalism is a religion, of course: There is no proof that it works (and plenty of evidence to show it doesn't), it is perceived as different things by different people in different places, it requires absolute faith and devotion to its ideals without question, and seeks to destroy anyone who doesn't unquestioningly obey and proselytize it requirements. Its devotees dare not mention its name, and regularly castigate anyone who applied ANY spoken name to it ("We're NOT socialists! We're NOT communists! Don't you DARE call us that! We're NOT....", etc.). And they can tolerate no other religion except Modern Liberalism. They regard anyone who disagrees, as not only wrong but evil.

Does your view that "there is no religion that supercedes[sic] the Constitution", include the religion of Modern Liberalism? What do you propose we should to with the people already in office, who are clearly fanatical devotees to that religion and regularly violate the Constitution to make laws implementing their religion in its place?

Except for the general welfare clause.

And what do you think that means? I am damn sure it doesn't mean break the law and enslave the people like you progressives want

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

In what way does welfare break the law and enslave people?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

If you believe in the Bible's god you have no choice but to maintain this position. Bible's authority isn't compatible with US political office and should disqualify anyone holding it.

 

[Slyhunter]

Re another thread here regarding a presidential candidate that held a particular religion superceded the Constitution. My own view is there is no religion that supercedes the Constitution.

I agree.

Of course, many Christian religious mores are matched by language of the Constitution. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie etc. It turns out that people who adhere to Christian religions, are already more than halfway to supporting the Constitution - a far better proportion than is found in adherents to Sharia law.

How about people who believe that the religion of Modern Liberalism should supersede the Constitution? They support taxation to transfer funds directly to various special interest groups (forbidden by the Const), and govt getting involved in workplace conditions, land zoning, local environmental conditions, medical insurance, retirement funding, unemployment compensation in various forms, and even the size of our toilets and the kinds of light bulbs we can buy - all functions forbidden to the Fed govt by the Constitution, and reserved instead to the States and the People.

Modern liberalism is a religion, of course: There is no proof that it works (and plenty of evidence to show it doesn't), it is perceived as different things by different people in different places, it requires absolute faith and devotion to its ideals without question, and seeks to destroy anyone who doesn't unquestioningly obey and proselytize it requirements. Its devotees dare not mention its name, and regularly castigate anyone who applied ANY spoken name to it ("We're NOT socialists! We're NOT communists! Don't you DARE call us that! We're NOT....", etc.). And they can tolerate no other religion except Modern Liberalism. They regard anyone who disagrees, as not only wrong but evil.

Does your view that "there is no religion that supercedes[sic] the Constitution", include the religion of Modern Liberalism? What do you propose we should to with the people already in office, who are clearly fanatical devotees to that religion and regularly violate the Constitution to make laws implementing their religion in its place?

Except for the general welfare clause.

And what do you think that means? I am damn sure it doesn't mean break the law and enslave the people like you progressives want

Sent from my SM-G386T1 using Tapatalk

You know what? You have a point. I'd rather be a free lion who might get a foot infection and die from it out in the wild than live in a zoo where zoo keepers take care of my every need. I might go hungry or die 5 or 10 years earlier than I would have had I lived in a zoo, but at least I'm free, right?

Free?
in woods have to hunt for food.
in zoo eat steak every day.
in woods mosquito larva filled ponds to drink out of.
in zoo Fresh water.

 

[JakeStarkey]

By all means do so.

I know Madison and his writings. He would never countenance a theocratic state, or even Virginia having an established religion.

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Stop it. You said that Isaiah 33:22 inspired the Virginia Plan yet you cannot point to where Madison said or wrote that it did. Fail.

You are the one who failed to put them altogether for the inspiration of writing some of the Constitution.
I bet you will refuse to read the 170 page book that I posted also, that explains their Christian influence.

Got you in a cite head lock. Post the quote by Madison used Isaiah 33:22.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Jesus approved a slavery.

Women should marry their rapist.

Wearing two kinds of material at the same time deserves the death penalty.

I love Biblical law.

Your dishonesty and Biblically proportioned MIS-comprehension of Biblical (and all other kinds of) "law" is every bit as laughable as your political philosophy and your grasp on the art of persuasion, rderp. You dishonest twat.

I don't accept your apology. You're simply too stupid to be bothered with.

Only a totally dishonest kunt like you, rderp, would see any hint of an "apology" in what I wrote about you, you rancid fully and forever dishonest lying twat.

 

[peach174]

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Stop it. You said that Isaiah 33:22 inspired the Virginia Plan yet you cannot point to where Madison said or wrote that it did. Fail.

What I said was
Our Documents - Virginia Plan (1787)
Drafted by James Madison, and presented by Edmund Randolph to the Constitutional Convention on May 29, 1787, the Virginia Plan proposed a strong central government composed of three branches: legislative, executive, and judicial.

Actually, you were very specific about Isaiah. ANd there's no real evidence of that. Its far, far more likely that Madison drew his inspiration from the British system....which had an executive, judiciary and legislative. Even a bi cameral legislature.

The UK entwined it's powers and had a weak separation of powers where the Lord Chancellor fused the Legislature, Executive and the Judiciary.

 

[peach174]

I also know them and I agree that he never wanted a theocratic state or established state religion.
None of our Founders did.
That is not what I am saying.
I said that the Bible helped him as well as our other founders form some of their ideas for writing the Constitution.
One being from Isaiah 33:22 which was influenced by Christian ideas.
You don't need to have God, Jesus or any actual Christian Bible quotes from the Bible to help in forming the Constitution.
We were meant to be a moral nation with Christian foundations but not for us to be a Theocracy.
We never were, nor will we ever be a theocracy. That is totally contrary to freedom.

Nope...Madison brought lots of books from Enlightenment philosophers to Philadelphia to help in writing the Constitution....show where he brought a bible for that purpose.

He did not have to.
He knew the Bible very well. He was raised as a Christian, like many or our Founders.
Show your link to all of the enlightenment books that he brought to Philadelphia.

Stop it. You said that Isaiah 33:22 inspired the Virginia Plan yet you cannot point to where Madison said or wrote that it did. Fail.

You are the one who failed to put them altogether for the inspiration of writing some of the Constitution.
I bet you will refuse to read the 170 page book that I posted also, that explains their Christian influence.

Got you in a cite head lock. Post the quote by Madison used Isaiah 33:22.

From what I can gather from my research is that Madison was using Baron Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws written in 1748 with the 3 separation of government branches. He was a Christian and based this on Isaiah 33:22 and Jeremiah 17:9.
There may or may not be any brochuer's or pamphlets written at that time about Madison and Isaiah. If anyone has a library of them or knows them more extensively than I do, perhaps it may be there, like some of the web sites have stated.
But all of my research points to the Baron's writing as to where Madison and the other Founders used that.

The political writers during the time of the making the Constitution had 34% of Bible quotes, 8.3% Montesquieu, 7.9% Blackstone and 2.9% Locke.
Montesquieu, Blackstone and Locke were all Christians and based many of their writings from the Bible during the Age of Enlightenment or Age of Reason.
The Founders used all three of these theologians as well as our own documents that went back for over 150 years before the Constitution.
They used the Magna Carta written in 1215 and was based on Biblical principals like trial by jury, innocent till proven guilty, individual liberty and private property being protected, no property taken without consent.
They used our own documents like the Mayflower Contract which was the miniature of the Declaration of Independence.
George Washington ordered copies of the Fundamental orders of Connecticut based on the writings of John Locke to be used and read during the Continental Congress.
They also used the Massachusetts Body of Liberties which was based on the Bible and English Common Law was used in writing the Bill of Rights.
There was about 100 Biblically based compact frames of Government and Charters they drew from that paved the way for our key founding document and all of them were Christian based.

Every one of our Founders knew the Bible very well and they all understood convent theology and they practiced it.
They all had a Christian world view by way of their education.
Every single one of them were taught as children that used the New England Primer, which had Bible teachings. It was taught from 1692 till after 1900.

After 2 days of the Continental Congress meetings were being staled, Ben Franklin asked for prayer and on Sept.7th 1774 Rev. Jacob Duche read Psalm 35, the service lasted 3 hours and John Adams was so moved by it he wrote to his wife Abigail about it.
The prayer had a profound effect on the delegates, as recounted by John Adams to his wife. Dr. Duché followed the psalm with ten minutes of spontaneous prayer asking God to support the American cause. Adams stated, “[Rev] Duche, unexpectedly to everybody, struck out into extemporaneous prayer filled which filled the bosom of every man present. I must confess I never heard a better prayer. . . .with such fervor, such ardor, earnestness and pathos, and in a language so elegant and sublime for America [and] for the Congress. . . .It has had an excellent effect upon everybody here.” He went on to say, “I never saw a greater effect upon an audience. It seemed as if Heaven had ordained that Psalm to be read on the morning of Sept. 7th 1774.

 

[JakeStarkey]

So you admit that you do not have a cite by Madison? Ok, an equally eloquent essay can be written for the British model and the European political philosophers as the inspirations for the Virginia Plan. The very thought of a theocratic state would be repellant to Madison. If he considered Isaiah, he certainly rejected it.

“The Virginia Plan was based on a bicameral legislative model inspired by a form of republicanism.” Isaiah would not have the slightest idea of what was republicanism. Virginia Plan - constitution | Laws.com

 

[peach174]

So you admit that you do not have a cite by Madison? Ok, an equally eloquent essay can be written for the British model and the European political philosophers as the inspirations for the Virginia Plan. The very thought of a theocratic state would be repellant to Madison. If he considered Isaiah, he certainly rejected it.

“The Virginia Plan was based on a bicameral legislative model inspired by a form of republicanism.” Isaiah would not have the slightest idea of what was republicanism. Virginia Plan - constitution | Laws.com

Of course Isaiah would not know that. You twisted that. Madison would know the different forms of republics as well a Montesquieu.
You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.
It is Montesquieu who drew upon Isaiah 33:22 and Jeremiah 17:9 and Madison used that as well as all the Founding Fathers, but most especially James Madison who drew upon Montesquieu’s theory of the separation of powers when drafting the Constitution.

No one has ever said that anyone has ever wanted a Theocratic State other than the far left's false accusations.
Just because we are a Judeo Christian Nation does not mean that we are a Theocracy.
Americans fled from the theocracies of Europe since the 1600's.

 

[peach174]

So you admit that you do not have a cite by Madison? Ok, an equally eloquent essay can be written for the British model and the European political philosophers as the inspirations for the Virginia Plan. The very thought of a theocratic state would be repellant to Madison. If he considered Isaiah, he certainly rejected it.

“The Virginia Plan was based on a bicameral legislative model inspired by a form of republicanism.” Isaiah would not have the slightest idea of what was republicanism. Virginia Plan - constitution | Laws.com

Do you know that the British model and the European political philosophers were Christians who modeled their government and philosophies on the Bible?