Would you sign a treaty or a trade deal with the United States?
- Thread starter deanrd
- Start date
Our trade deficit is running at over 500 billion a year.
If China was running a trade deficit with US, like we are running with them, they would be burning down their own ports to stop it.
So, you are also saying that it would be hypocritical of him to bring back, even a portion of those good jobs that were the back bone of the American Middle Class.
My answer is, I don't give a ****. I want those jobs for Americans.
Hillary would have been completely sincere in her continued shipping off good jobs overseas.
That does not make it better.
deanrd
Gold Member
- May 8, 2017
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- #26
Like what?
87% of lost manufacturing jobs were automated. They didn't go overseas, they went away. I've posted links to a half a dozen manufacturing, industrial and Assembly magazines that support US Manufacturing. They all say the same thing.
And that brought in millions of new jobs requiring technicians and engineers. Which is why we have 6.2 million jobs that can't be filled because people don't have the skills. Those skills require an apprenticeship, or some kind of certificate or degree or experience.
You can't just come in off the street anymore unless all you want is to be a waitress or a dishwasher.
Germany has DOUBLE the percentage manufacturing jobs that we do. Why haven't their manufacturing jobs been hit by automation as badly as ours?
Meanwhile the employers instead of training people for the more technical jobs or raising wages to attract people, are importing trained Third World workers for the slots.
The Manufacturers have adjusted to the new situation and are supporting the status quo, as shown in your links.
The workers are the ones getting fucked.
Power to the People.
playtime
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2015
- 65,329
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no way you can spin this for dear leader. ever.
Fact Checker
How many Trump products were made overseas? Here’s the complete list.
By Michelle Ye Hee Lee August 26, 2016
[..]
We searched for sources of Trump products through publicly available data, including online retail stores and public data of shipments at U.S. ports from 2007 through Aug. 17, 2016, gathered by the private company ImportGenius.com. The data shows the last port of shipment before entering the United States (meaning Mexico is not included) and specifies the manufactured location for certain items. (Thanks to Kim Soffen, graphics reporter at The Washington Post, who worked with us to analyze the imports database. Check out her analysis of a decade of Trump’s imports.)
The Facts
Trump apparel
The Donald J. Trump Collection includes ties, suits, dress shirts, eyeglasses and other accessories.
[...]
Trump home items
Trump Home has a range of items, including chandeliers, mirrors, bedding, table lamps, cabinets, sofas, barstools, cocktail tables and more.
[...]
Trump hotel items
Trump beverages
[...]
As our inventory shows, manufacturing is a global process. Components of a product of an American company are made in different parts of the world, depending on who offers the most competitive prices, and ultimately imported into the country to be sold to American consumers. It’s not as simple as deciding not to eat an Oreo because Nabisco found a cheaper place to employ some of its workers.
Trump’s practice as a businessman is not consistent with his current rhetoric against trade as a presidential nominee — this vulnerability is backed with more than enough factual evidence. If Trump brand customers took the same stance against his products as he did against Nabisco, it is clear they would be left with few Trump items to buy. However, we do know of at least four Trump products made in the United States: “Make America Great Again” hats, bedding, water and cologne.
(About our rating scale)
How many Trump products were made overseas? Here’s the complete list.
playtime
Diamond Member
- Aug 18, 2015
- 65,329
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don'tcha love the spin he's tossing even about the coal industry? the remaining mines would much rather have automation do the dirty work than pay for black lung disease.
The failure of ObamaCare is somehow going to affect trade deals with foreign countries? That's stupid even for you, R-Derp!
I'm amused by the concept that Trump for some reason needs to "honor" the very same trade deals and treaties of Obama that he ran for office on repealing. Just because your predecessor was naive and signed some idiotic deals doesn't mean we're locked into those deals forever! Part of the reason the voters put Trump into office was to get rid of those bad deals.
PredFan
Diamond Member
Bull shit.
Logic and reason will tell anyone Trump is right. GB and France haven't gotten anything right in decades.
Not Trump's fault dumbass.
Not needed. We still trade.
Ha ha! CNN.
It depends, but yes I would. I'd always go into trade deals with caution, no matter who it was.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
Trump's own administration at the top pretty much opposes Trump's position on Iran.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
Trade deals in general?
The US should not offer 'free trade' to any nation that does not operate under labor laws and environmental laws that generally match the laws US businesses must operate under.
The US should not offer 'free trade' to any nation that does not operate under labor laws and environmental laws that generally match the laws US businesses must operate under.
SavannahMann
Platinum Member
- Nov 16, 2016
- 14,540
- 6,828
- 365
Trade deals. Let’s talk about those. A trade deal between equal economies brings out the best in both economies. Let’s think of our own history, and how trade improved it.
Japanese Cars were only part of the Foreign Car boon from the 1970’s on. But let’s focus on Japanese cars for a bit shall we? Japanese cars were small, with small engines, and incredibly reliable. American cars were, and are larger, with big thirsty engines. When the fuel crisis hit, Japanese cars were perfectly positioned to stretch the dollar in gasoline.
American manufacturers adapted. They made smaller cars, but most importantly they improved the quality of the car to close the reliability gap of the imports. They did so by adapting to many of the Japanese techniques in manufacturing. The car buyer got a better quality car, with improved engineering, from all the remaining manufacturers.
Those which did not adapt, failed. They entered the dustbin of history.
In any field, adapting to the competition is a good thing. It means that everyone gets a better product. Moving to aircraft. Boeing, McDonnel Douglas, and Lockheed were the big manufacturers in the world for passenger jets. The only other option in reality were Soviet brands, which were terrible.
Then Airbus got fired up, and began manufacturing planes that were competitors. Now, it is pretty much Boeing and Airbus for the big planes. But look at what has happened. The use of lighter composite materials has increased. This provides a greater efficiency in the aircraft. New engines have been developed, making it a less polluting aircraft, and a more reliable one.
The same is true of ships. Heavy steel has been the material of choice for a long time. Only now, new paint has become available, reducing the friction of the water, increasing efficiency. Everyone is using the paint, no matter where the ship is made. More efficient engines, and power systems. More reliable equipment. The progress from competition is awesome.
Now, what do we have with Mexico? If we agree that Canada has a roughly equal economic power, and the average person does, then what about Mexico? Mexico does not have the economic power of the United States, or Canada. What they do have is cheap labor. So what happens when you make a trade deal between inequal economies? You export manufacturing. This exported manufacturing is a vital part of any economy.
We can have engineers, designers, managers, and the whole building full of college graduates who think of stuff. But we also, as a well rounded economy, need people with wrenches turning the bolts to assemble the items that the aforementioned college folks dreamed up. We need the manufacturing.
The more manufacturing we export to Mexico, the more “middle class” jobs they have. But they aren’t getting what we could charitably call middle class wages. They are getting wages that are in essence insults. If you tried to hire Americans for those jobs, they would balk.
But auto manufacturers are in fact here, staying with cars. Nissan, Honda, BMW, Volkswagen, Toyota, and others make cars and trucks here. But American cars are made in Mexico in many cases.
I remember a news story years ago, where they were singing the praises of the Ford Fusion and how it was bringing back Detroit. The only problem was about half of the Ford Fusions were made in Mexico. So unless Detroit was a town outside of the Mexican Factory, I wasn’t sure how it was helping.
When we export our jobs, we end up with a service economy. This means that the gap between the rich and the poor continues to widen. When you have a balance of jobs, then you have movement between the various sectors. A middle class factory worker sends his son or daughter to college to get an education, and join the management teams. A son of a Manager, finding he is much happier with a wrench in his hand, goes to work as a hourly employee.
There is movement, and the rich families normally consider the blue collar son a black sheep. So what? Everyone chases their bliss. Some of us are fortunate enough to find it.
But when those manufacturing jobs are gone, where do the middle class folks work? Not in the factories in Mexico. They get jobs as salesmen, repairmen, truckers, or other hourly work. The gap between the rich and poor continues to widen, and discontent increases. All from trade between inequal economies.
So tell me why you would sign a trade deal that creates further animosity between the people, and exports the vital manufacturing base that the nation and the balanced employment requires?
Japanese Cars were only part of the Foreign Car boon from the 1970’s on. But let’s focus on Japanese cars for a bit shall we? Japanese cars were small, with small engines, and incredibly reliable. American cars were, and are larger, with big thirsty engines. When the fuel crisis hit, Japanese cars were perfectly positioned to stretch the dollar in gasoline.
American manufacturers adapted. They made smaller cars, but most importantly they improved the quality of the car to close the reliability gap of the imports. They did so by adapting to many of the Japanese techniques in manufacturing. The car buyer got a better quality car, with improved engineering, from all the remaining manufacturers.
Those which did not adapt, failed. They entered the dustbin of history.
In any field, adapting to the competition is a good thing. It means that everyone gets a better product. Moving to aircraft. Boeing, McDonnel Douglas, and Lockheed were the big manufacturers in the world for passenger jets. The only other option in reality were Soviet brands, which were terrible.
Then Airbus got fired up, and began manufacturing planes that were competitors. Now, it is pretty much Boeing and Airbus for the big planes. But look at what has happened. The use of lighter composite materials has increased. This provides a greater efficiency in the aircraft. New engines have been developed, making it a less polluting aircraft, and a more reliable one.
The same is true of ships. Heavy steel has been the material of choice for a long time. Only now, new paint has become available, reducing the friction of the water, increasing efficiency. Everyone is using the paint, no matter where the ship is made. More efficient engines, and power systems. More reliable equipment. The progress from competition is awesome.
Now, what do we have with Mexico? If we agree that Canada has a roughly equal economic power, and the average person does, then what about Mexico? Mexico does not have the economic power of the United States, or Canada. What they do have is cheap labor. So what happens when you make a trade deal between inequal economies? You export manufacturing. This exported manufacturing is a vital part of any economy.
We can have engineers, designers, managers, and the whole building full of college graduates who think of stuff. But we also, as a well rounded economy, need people with wrenches turning the bolts to assemble the items that the aforementioned college folks dreamed up. We need the manufacturing.
The more manufacturing we export to Mexico, the more “middle class” jobs they have. But they aren’t getting what we could charitably call middle class wages. They are getting wages that are in essence insults. If you tried to hire Americans for those jobs, they would balk.
But auto manufacturers are in fact here, staying with cars. Nissan, Honda, BMW, Volkswagen, Toyota, and others make cars and trucks here. But American cars are made in Mexico in many cases.
I remember a news story years ago, where they were singing the praises of the Ford Fusion and how it was bringing back Detroit. The only problem was about half of the Ford Fusions were made in Mexico. So unless Detroit was a town outside of the Mexican Factory, I wasn’t sure how it was helping.
When we export our jobs, we end up with a service economy. This means that the gap between the rich and the poor continues to widen. When you have a balance of jobs, then you have movement between the various sectors. A middle class factory worker sends his son or daughter to college to get an education, and join the management teams. A son of a Manager, finding he is much happier with a wrench in his hand, goes to work as a hourly employee.
There is movement, and the rich families normally consider the blue collar son a black sheep. So what? Everyone chases their bliss. Some of us are fortunate enough to find it.
But when those manufacturing jobs are gone, where do the middle class folks work? Not in the factories in Mexico. They get jobs as salesmen, repairmen, truckers, or other hourly work. The gap between the rich and poor continues to widen, and discontent increases. All from trade between inequal economies.
So tell me why you would sign a trade deal that creates further animosity between the people, and exports the vital manufacturing base that the nation and the balanced employment requires?
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
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Do as I say, not as I do
jknowgood
Diamond Member
It's a shame to hear Americans hating on our great country, just because you don't like the president. How old are you, 12? I didn't like obama, but I didn't let that lead me to hate my country. Liberals are nothing but pussies. Get over it, Trump is your president.
jknowgood
Diamond Member
Our generals disagreed with obama, what's your point?
jknowgood
Diamond Member
You mean when Michelle starved our kids at school, while she munched down chicken wings?
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