Would you be better off under Socialism, if so how?

[dudmuck]

Oh that’s such a nice video. You do know Derik has 3 million bucks and a plan to either pull equipment and the best workers to his own site or change production lines to address his shortage on products he is selling. We all get that right?

Now Laura is just over here thinking she’s pretty much had enough of dealing with these employees and wants 3 million to get out no matter who buys it for whatever reason.

Now you have the employees. Who are going to do what? Collect three million? Probably not. You mentioned a loan, from who? At what rate? To do what? Keep going with what they had? You now have multiple owners with no game plan and expecting they will all just keep doing that line work.

This company is dead in a year. The new owners get to experience bankruptcy, god I hope they used their homes as collateral. Otherwise this failed loan is on who? Tax payers?

Fuck off.

Laura is likely retiring.

The 3 million loan would be for buying the business, to run it for the benefit of both the customers and the employees. The employees already work the business, and they would continue to do so.

 

[g5000]

I'm curious as to the thought process involved in embracing Socialism so I ask, Would you be better off under Socialism, if so how?

I promise I won't flame

There are many forms of socialism, and as others have pointed out, we already have many socialistic programs in place in the US.

Since you refuse to define what YOU mean by socialism, and then disingenuously mock people for not answering your question, perhaps you could highlight specific policies or programs you believe are socialistic and ask how we would be better off with those policies.

Maybe we could start with universal health care. Socialist? I believe it is socialist.

Or perhaps government mandated maternity leave.

Or perhaps farm subidies.

Or government bailouts of failing banks or corporations.

Or food stamps.

Be specific.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Laura is likely retiring.

The 3 million loan would be for buying the business, to run it for the benefit of both the customers and the employees. The employees already work the business, and they would continue to do so.

Maybe Laura is sick and tired of building bathrooms for men, women and WTF ever. Maybe she sees the writing on the wall with higher minimum wages.

So which employee is going to front 3 million to buy this place? And who gets to become the new Laura? You need both the money and the new Laura who probably isn’t going to do that job for the same wages they had before.

I was optimistic about a year. This place closes in six months. Laura better get here entire 3 million up front.

 

[Rigby5]

Big difference between socialism and capitalism.

Socialism just required restrictions so that capitalism does not commit crimes, like child labor, dangerous work condition, extortionist monopolies.
Once capitalists follow the rules of socialism, then capitalism is allowed without problem, under socialism.

Capitalism on the other hand does not allow socialism. Capitalism is only profit motivated, and can't do anything that is not based on the profit motive. It wants to cheat, lie, steal, use child labor, slavery, fraud, extortion, etc. When capitalism is the whole system, you can't even have public roads that are free, and instead all roads would have to have tolls. Otherwise you would illegally be spending tax money to benefit others without a profit.

 

[Rigby5]

hahahhahahahahaha
..the USA is one of the greatest countries ever....it was the WHITE people that built America--without the brains, you would have a shithole like Africa is STILL today
.....whites were making very complicated windmills for farming etc while the blacks were still hunting-gathering inefficiently
...the white people had the brains to design and build STEAM engines, railroads, schools, ships, etc etc etc ..the blacks did not even have a written language , which is needed for advancement
etc etc etc

That is a misunderstanding of history.
First of all, it is wrong to believe Blacks were not the earliest civilizations that has technology, written language, etc.
If you look up the Kushites, Nubians, etc., you find they likely were the origins of the ancient Egyptian cultures.
It is quite possible most pharaohs were Black.
Second is that technology is relative, and if you live in a tropical paradise, you will not bother with technology.
Technology is desperation when you are starving or being killed by something or somebody.
Third is that Europe was living in mud huts thousands of year after the Mideast and Africa has very advanced civilizations.
Forth is that history simply deliberately ignores Black culture, such as the advanced Black civilizations in Timbuktu.

 

[Rigby5]

Nobody is confused by that. A government that can regulate production and distribution is the owner of that business. Not on paper, but in reality they run it. Now you start adding minimum wage requirements, benefit requirements and even racial quotas, who actually owns that business? The government does.

Not at all.
Being able to limit or encourage production and distribution does not mean government has to actually do it.
Government can own businesses, but only if there are problems that make it necessary.

 

[Mac1958]

Still haven't answered have you?

Answer so you can teach us something

Yes I have. I'm against socialism, the public ownership and control of all production, distribution and property.

Will I need to say it a third time for it to finally and mercifully seep into your skull?

 

[harmonica]

Second is that technology is relative, and if you live in a tropical paradise, you will not bother with technology.
Technology is desperation when you are starving or being killed by something or somebody.

'''''Second is that technology is relative, and if you live in a tropical paradise, you will not bother with technology.
Technology is desperation when you are starving or being killed by something or somebody.'''''
HHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH --wow, I've seen some babble crap double talk--but this is a good one!!!!!!!!
.....plain and simple--the Africans STILL can't feed themselves !!!!!!!!
....they were and are far behind in education/technology/etc
..'''tropical paradise''' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you still need food there...there are diseases...etc
...you PROVE you are full of shit = ''tropical paradise''' ...
you don't know shit about history
the Khmers, the Eastern Islanders, etc lived in areas of pleasant weather all year.....but they died out because of starvation

History of Easter Island - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

African weather is not a paradise --MAJOR FK up by you..goddamn, did you graduate from 4th grade????
''''In Kinshasa, the wet season is hot, oppressive, and overcast and the dry season is warm, muggy, and partly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 67°F to 90°F and is rarely below 64°F or above 94°F. '''''

Kinshasa Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Congo - Kinshasa) - Weather Spark

In Kinshasa, the wet season is hot, oppressive, and overcast and the dry season is warm, muggy, and partly cloudy. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 67°F to 90°F and is rarely below 64°F or above 94°F.

weatherspark.com

 

[j-mac]

Yes I have. I'm against socialism, the public ownership and control of all production, distribution and property.

Will I need to say it a third time for it to finally and mercifully seep into your skull?

Maybe the question for you Mac should be, do you think that the government (federal) should be the supreme voice in our country?

 

[Mac1958]

Maybe the question for you Mac should be, do you think that the government (federal) should be the supreme voice in our country?

No.

Such easy questions.

 

[j-mac]

No.

Such easy questions.

But is that not where Democrats are trying to take us?

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I'm curious as to the thought process involved in embracing Socialism so I ask, Would you be better off under Socialism, if so how?

I promise I won't flame

Free tuition for my kids when they go to college is all I can come up with.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

But is that not where Democrats are trying to take us?

He is lying. He says one thing but votes for those who say the complete opposite.

 

[j-mac]

He is lying. He says one thing but votes for those who say the complete opposite.

I’m trying to get him to answer some questions instead of his usual hit and run strategy.

 

[Mac1958]

But is that not where Democrats are trying to take us?

No. You have been misinformed. What the Democrats want to do is move us to the left on the spectrum, not all the way to actual socialism. Their goal would be something like Canada, Australia, Germany, France. You may feel those countries are too far Left, and that's a very good conversation to have. That's the conversation we need.

Not even the most aggressive national Democrats, let's say AOC and Bernie, want public ownership of all production, distribution and property. There are a few on the Left who do, I'm sure, just as there are a few on the Right who want pure libertarianism. They are irrelevant. They are in the way.

So the REAL question here is: Where on the continuum should we be? That's a question that requires thoughtful conversation, intellectual honesty, knowledge, patience, and an grasp of nuance and complexity. We are nowhere near that right now.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

I’m trying to get him to answer some questions instead of his usual hit and run strategy.

That’s all he does and then when he is out debated he puts people on ignore. He claims to have 350+ clients when an average CFP has 96. He is a liar and a fraud. Period. End of story.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

No. You have been misinformed. What the Democrats want to do is move us to the left on the spectrum, not all the way to actual socialism. Their goal would be something like Canada, Australia, Germany, France. You may feel those countries are too far Left, and that's a very good conversation to have.

Not even the most aggressive national Democrats, let's say AOC and Bernie, want public ownership of all production, distribution and property. There are a few on the Left who do, I'm sure, just as there are a few on the Right who want pure libertarianism. They are irrelevant. They are in the way.

So the REAL question here is: Where on the continuum should we be? That's a question that requires thoughtful conversation, intellectual honesty, patience, and an grasp of nuance and complexity. We are nowhere near that right now.

You conflated communism with socialism yet again. Bravo.

 

[j-mac]

No. You have been misinformed. What the Democrats want to do is move us to the left on the spectrum, not all the way to actual socialism. Their goal would be something like Canada, Australia, Germany, France. You may feel those countries are too far Left, and that's a very good conversation to have. That's the conversation we need.

Not even the most aggressive national Democrats, let's say AOC and Bernie, want public ownership of all production, distribution and property. There are a few on the Left who do, I'm sure, just as there are a few on the Right who want pure libertarianism. They are irrelevant. They are in the way.

So the REAL question here is: Where on the continuum should we be? That's a question that requires thoughtful conversation, intellectual honesty, knowledge, patience, and an grasp of nuance and complexity. We are nowhere near that right now.

Ok, so let’s try to get there.

what is it about Canada’s or Western European systems that you believe would work well here? And do you really trust any of our leaders, at this point in time, with more control over your life?

 

[Mac1958]

Ok, so let’s try to get there.

what is it about Canada’s or Western European systems that you believe would work well here? And do you really trust any of our leaders, at this point in time, with more control over your life?

The only "system" that comes to mind is Single Payer, and I'm against that. I'm also against Obamacare. I have a very specific public/private idea for health care, since I have professional experience in that area.

The next other three things that pop to mind would be personal taxation, corporate taxation and regulation, and the various social safety net items. That would be a complicated conversation, but overall I think we have chosen to put ourselves in a position where individual tax rates have to go up, as well as various other personal taxes such as estate and capital gains.

We need to stay competitive in a hypercompetitive global business environment, so I'm for keeping corporate taxes as low as possible. I would then install a METR (Minimum Effective Tax Rate, my term) for both individual and corporate taxes.

That's a start. And no, I don't trust our "leaders" from either end much, because our political system is set up so that their top priorities are fundraising, re-election, and pandering to their base. We choose to maintain this system, so this is our fault.

 

[j-mac]

The only "system" that comes to mind is Single Payer, and I'm against that. I'm also against Obamacare. I have a very specific public/private idea for health care, since I have professional experience in that area.

The next other three things that pop to mind would be personal taxation, corporate taxation and regulation, and the various social safety net items. That would be a complicated conversation, but overall I think we have chosen to put ourselves in a position where individual tax rates have to go up, as well as various other personal taxes such as estate and capital gains.

We need to stay competitive in a hypercompetitive global business environment, so I'm for keeping corporate taxes as low as possible. I would then install a METR (Minimum Effective Tax Rate, my term) for both individual and corporate taxes.

That's a start. And no, I don't trust our "leaders" from either end much, because our political system is set up so that their top priorities are fundraising, re-election, and pandering to their base. We choose to maintain this system, so this is our fault.

For the most part I am in agreement with your post here. I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on healthcare, as well as taxation....But, thanks for giving a thoughtful response.