Would It Kill Us to Apologize to Iran for the Coup?

[Agnapostate]

no shit sherlock, are you complete unable to read and comprehend at the same time?

In other words, you can't think of an answer.

 

[strollingbones]

Anyone who understands anything about the middle east knows that apologies come from a position of weakness.
Why do you think the Iranians freed the hostages on the day Ronny Raygun took office? They knew he meant business that's why.
Obama is only projecting weakness.

you would be of course, referring to reagan trading arms for the hostages...of course that would be considered "business" right...or would it be consititutional treason?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

cause there are no Shia jihadist groups

Is that a reference to Hezbollah? They pose a regional threat to Israel (which functions as a strategic liability to the U.S.), not to the U.S.

Are you insane? Iran will nuke Israel the first chance they get. THAT is the point. And when they do WE will nuke them back. WE will help Israel retaliate.

The clerics in Iran are looney toons. They want the end of the world more than any christian ever did. And they believe they can cause their 13th Iman to appear by destroying Israel. They have been VERY clear on what they intend. You just ignore the facts.

 

[editec]

The article presents one way to spin the story. Another would suggest Iran should thank the US and UK for preventing Mossadeq from delivering Iran over to the USSR intentionally or not. During WWII, Iran had been occupied by the Soviet Union, the US and the UK so that aid, mostly from the US, could be delivered to the Soviets. After the war, Stalin refused to withdraw his troops until the UK with the support of the US demanded it. The USSR then for years sought to persuade some outlying provinces to secede, and this agitation continued during the the events of 1953.

There can be little doubt but that the USSR would have turned Iran into a Soviet satellite state if Mossadeq had managed to break relations with the UK and US, and then Iran would have had no control over its oil production or oil revenues. In fact, had the Soviets not gotten bogged down in Afghanistan, they would almost certainly have tried again to take over Iran after the Islamic Revolution.

Instead asking for an apology from the US, Amadinejad should apologize to the US for its decades of ingratitude.

That argument really depends entirely in the premise that Mopssadeq would have willingly turned Iran into a Societ client state.

Frankly, I doubt that.

Obviously you believe it.

If you are right, then the coup was a good thing.

If I am right, then the coup was a bad idea.

What evidence do you bring to the table to support your contention?

What Mossadeq would have willingly done is irrelevant. The USSR had been trying to gain control of Iran since the end of WWII, not only because of its oil but also to gain Iran's ports on the Persian Gulf. The principal opposition to the Shah came from a loose coalition of communists and hardline Islamists who were united only in their opposition to the Shah's social, political and economic reforms aimed at turning Iran into western style secular democracy. It was this coalition of communists and Islamists that Mossadeq depended on in his efforts to unseat the Shah, and had the Shah left and the UK and US withdrawn their support for the Iranian government, a civil war between the communists and the Islamists would certainly have followed with the communists backed by the Soviets next door in Afghanistan.

The communists would have declared they were the legitimate government of Iran and asked the USSR to help them put down the Islamist insurrection, much as the communist government in Afghanistan did some years later, and the USSR would have recognized the communist government as legitimate and sent troops from Afghanistan to crush the Islamist rebellion. Soon after that a Soviet fleet would have had a home base in the Persian Gulf.

Interesting theory.

So essantially what you're suggesting is that British Petroeum's interests had nothing to do with it.

That is wasn't retribution for nationalizing the oil?

That once Moss was removed, the Soviet union was magically now what...no threat?

And you believe that, do you?

Do you also believe that Swarharto was going to be a communist? The CIA tried to have him killed, even after he's killed hundreds of thouands of communists

You see...I just don't believe that story. Neither does anyone else in Iran.

You want to know why nobody in the MidEast believes that story?

Because communism is an anthema to Islam, and Mossadeq was an extreme Iranian nationalist.

So much so, in fact, that he wouldn't screw Iran for the benefit of British petroleum.

And that is why the CIA staged a coup and PAID thugs to have it. NOt fear of the Soviets, but fear that the Iranians might actually take control over their oil.

Read Legacy of Ashes.

It might wake you up to the reality of our foreign policy and what the CIA was really doing (and why) during that period.

 

[Shogun]

I am not worried about them giving them to some other faction, they will USE them themselves or give them to their terrorist puppets. And by the way, when they do, they will pay in LOTS of blood as Israel and the US NUKE the hell out of Iran.

The US is not going to nuke iran. Israel sure the hell is not going to nuke iran. We won't start another cold war with Russia just to suck some jewish dick. Sorry. I guess you'll have to figure out a way to instigate the Tribulation some other way.

Hey retard, after Iran uses a nuke we sure as hell will, well unless a cowardly Leftist is in the White House. Iran will either use it themselves or give one to their terrorist clients and hope somehow no one knows they did it. Obama is already sucking up to the Iranians as we speak.

Your retarded "return of jesus" brain may think slower than the average science user but it really is true that you can't predict the fucking future any better than anyone else. You don't know what iran will do. You don't know what anyone would do. You ASSUME as much because it facilitates your crusty old fucking outmoded jesus myth after being sorely disappointed that the world didn't blow up on 1am, January 2001 but you are no expert on the ME. THANKFULLY, western dogma junkie nutters like you are being muzzled like every ironic muslim hating talking point that you reiterate.


ps, the US won't nuke iran. Israel won't nuke iran. RUSSIA WILL build fucking reactors in iran. You can grovel and cry on the fucking ground all day long in front of jews everywhere but this won't stop being the case. LET israel nuke iran and see what happens. This pre-emptive defense shit is just not convincing anyone these days.

 

[DiveCon]

no shit sherlock, are you complete unable to read and comprehend at the same time?

In other words, you can't think of an answer.

wrong, i gave you an answer, only you are too fucking stupid to understand it

 

[toomuchtime_]

That argument really depends entirely in the premise that Mopssadeq would have willingly turned Iran into a Societ client state.

Frankly, I doubt that.

Obviously you believe it.

If you are right, then the coup was a good thing.

If I am right, then the coup was a bad idea.

What evidence do you bring to the table to support your contention?

What Mossadeq would have willingly done is irrelevant. The USSR had been trying to gain control of Iran since the end of WWII, not only because of its oil but also to gain Iran's ports on the Persian Gulf. The principal opposition to the Shah came from a loose coalition of communists and hardline Islamists who were united only in their opposition to the Shah's social, political and economic reforms aimed at turning Iran into western style secular democracy. It was this coalition of communists and Islamists that Mossadeq depended on in his efforts to unseat the Shah, and had the Shah left and the UK and US withdrawn their support for the Iranian government, a civil war between the communists and the Islamists would certainly have followed with the communists backed by the Soviets next door in Afghanistan.

The communists would have declared they were the legitimate government of Iran and asked the USSR to help them put down the Islamist insurrection, much as the communist government in Afghanistan did some years later, and the USSR would have recognized the communist government as legitimate and sent troops from Afghanistan to crush the Islamist rebellion. Soon after that a Soviet fleet would have had a home base in the Persian Gulf.

Interesting theory.

So essantially what you're suggesting is that British Petroeum's interests had nothing to do with it.

That is wasn't retribution for nationalizing the oil?

That once Moss was removed, the Soviet union was magically now what...no threat?

And you believe that, do you?

Do you also believe that Swarharto was going to be a communist? The CIA tried to have him killed, even after he's killed hundreds of thouands of communists

You see...I just don't believe that story. Neither does anyone else in Iran.

You want to know why nobody in the MidEast believes that story?

Because communism is an anthema to Islam, and Mossadeq was an extreme Iranian nationalist.

So much so, in fact, that he wouldn't screw Iran for the benefit of British petroleum.

And that is why the CIA staged a coup and PAID thugs to have it. NOt fear of the Soviets, but fear that the Iranians might actually take control over their oil.

Read Legacy of Ashes.

It might wake you up to the reality of our foreign policy and what the CIA was really doing (and why) during that period.

British interest was about the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, but US companies and the US government had no interest in Iranian oil at that time. At the time the US was in a panic about China becoming communist, the Soviet A bomb, the McCarthy hearings and the HUAC hearings and, of course, the war in Korea against an attempted communist takeover of South Korea. Stalin had tried to take over Iran at the end of WWII, but had backed down to UK and US pressure, and in the following years, communists continued to try to persuade the northern provinces to secede from Iran to form an independent communist state.

Russian revolutionary ideas first reached Iran in the late 19th century and in the first years of the 20th century, Lenin ordered Bolshevik Party publications translated into Persian and sent them along with agents to try to organize revolutionary parties in Iran. In 1917, a more serious effort was made by Russian communists to organize Iran and by 1920 the Social Democrat Party joined with several smaller Russian inspired revolutionary parties to proclaim themselves the Communist Party of Iran, and immediately took control of the northern province of Gilan with the intention of declaring it an independent state. Iranian troops with the help of British intelligence put down the insurrection, but many other attempts were made at armed uprisings over the next few years until all communist activity was finally banned by the Shah's father in the late 1920's.

However, the communists, those that were not in prison, continued to operate underground until in 1941 when the Shah succeeded his father to the throne and lifted the ban on communist activity and participation in government and freed all political prisoners. The communists immediately formed the Tudeh Party and by 1953, the Tudeh Party was one of the largest and most influential political party in Iran and the principal supporter of Mossadeq's nationalization of the oil industry both in the parliament and in the street.

Clearly, the long history of Russian and communist influence in Iran, and the temper of the times and the fact that Mossadeq depended on the Tudeh Party for support in the parliament and in the streets was cause for any reasonable person to worry that the when the Mossadeq government, already teetering on the brink of collapse, fell, with the Shah gone, the Soviets would move to realize the Russian dream dating from Czarist times of winning a port on the Persian Gulf. There is no need to speculate about communism and Islam. Anyone who has bothered to read the history of these events knows the communists were a powerful force in Iran at the time.

Now I understand you claim to speak for all the people of Iran as well as all the people of the ME and I understand that the story of CIA participation in the coup that overthrew Mossadeq is a sacred myth to many on left and is recited with reverence in somber tones, perhaps needing only organ music to make it sound like a prayer, but there is no basis in fact or logic for calling Mossadeq's removal a coup, since the Shah acted lawfully, and there is no basis in fact or logic for characterizing Mossadeq as a defender of democracy, since he was ruling by decree at the time of his removal, and there is no basis in fact or logic to say Mossadeq was removed by thugs since he was lawfully arrested by the Iranian military upon the Shah's lawful order.

As for the USSR giving up their efforts to capture Iran because the Shah stayed, they never did. The Shah went from being the most liberal and democratic leader in the region before the events in 1953 to being the ruler of a typically brutal and repressive government, for the region, because of near constant acts of terrorism and conspiracies to overthrow the government from both the communists and the Islamists.

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks Toomuchtime for the "fantasyland" history lesson.

It was very entertaining!!

 

[DiveCon]

Thanks Toomuchtime for the "fantasyland" history lesson.

It was very entertaining!!

he knows more about the issue than you could ever hope to know

 

[Sunni Man]

Thanks Toomuchtime for the "fantasyland" history lesson.

It was very entertaining!!

he knows more about the issue than you could ever hope to know

I am sure he does, if you want to believe a bunch of right wing nonsense

 

[DiveCon]

Thanks Toomuchtime for the "fantasyland" history lesson.

It was very entertaining!!

he knows more about the issue than you could ever hope to know

I am sure he does, if you want to believe a bunch of right wing nonsense

of course to someone as delusional as you, you dont know the truth when you see it

 

[Sunni Man]

Even the History Channel special on Iran verified that the Shah was put into power by a CIA lead coup.

The Shah was an American puppet who brutilized his people for 25 years.

The United States government owes the people of Iran an apology for the thousands of people who were tortured and murdered at the hands of the Shah.

 

[Annie]

Even the History Channel special on Iran verified that the Shah was put into power by a CIA lead coup.

The Shah was an American puppet who brutilized his people for 25 years.

The United States government owes the people of Iran an apology for the thousands of people who were tortured and murdered at the hands of the Shah.

And who led to his overthrow and the installment of Ayatollah Khomeini? The Palis and Iranian's favorite President. Have they erected a statue yet?

 

[Agnapostate]

Are you insane? Iran will nuke Israel the first chance they get. THAT is the point. And when they do WE will nuke them back. WE will help Israel retaliate.

The clerics in Iran are looney toons. They want the end of the world more than any christian ever did. And they believe they can cause their 13th Iman to appear by destroying Israel. They have been VERY clear on what they intend. You just ignore the facts.

Are you insane? Israel has thus far shown itself to be a far more unstable agent in the region than Iran. (Israel secretly developed nuclear weapons, concealed them from American inspectors, and still refuses to declare the existence of their arsenal, to say nothing of their blatant noncompliance with international consensus.) Iran, on the other hand, is hundreds of miles away and has never directly threatened Israel.

wrong, i gave you an answer, only you are too fucking stupid to understand it

You're full of shit. You couldn't name one Shi'a jihadist organization that poses a threat to the U.S.

 

[DiveCon]

Are you insane? Iran will nuke Israel the first chance they get. THAT is the point. And when they do WE will nuke them back. WE will help Israel retaliate.

The clerics in Iran are looney toons. They want the end of the world more than any christian ever did. And they believe they can cause their 13th Iman to appear by destroying Israel. They have been VERY clear on what they intend. You just ignore the facts.

Are you insane? Israel has thus far shown itself to be a far more unstable agent in the region than Iran. (Israel secretly developed nuclear weapons, concealed them from American inspectors, and still refuses to declare the existence of their arsenal, to say nothing of their blatant noncompliance with international consensus.) Iran, on the other hand, is hundreds of miles away and has never directly threatened Israel.

wrong, i gave you an answer, only you are too fucking stupid to understand it

You're full of shit. You couldn't name one Shi'a jihadist organization that poses a threat to the U.S.

no shit asshole
how many could have named Al Qaeda as a threat prior to 9/11


and before you show your idiocy again, i don't give a shit that they are a wahabbist sunni sect, it has to do with their anonymity

 

[Agnapostate]

no shit asshole
how many could have named Al Qaeda as a threat prior to 9/11

and before you show your idiocy again, i don't give a shit that they are a wahabbist sunni sect, it has to do with their anonymity

Your replies remain as inane and moronic as ever. See, my contention is that the Incredible Hulk could be a dire threat to national security too. It has to do with his anonymity, you see. No one believes he's real. And I can't prove he's real, of course. But he's a threat nonetheless.

 

[DiveCon]

no shit asshole
how many could have named Al Qaeda as a threat prior to 9/11

and before you show your idiocy again, i don't give a shit that they are a wahabbist sunni sect, it has to do with their anonymity

Your replies remain as inane and moronic as ever. See, my contention is that the Incredible Hulk could be a dire threat to national security too. It has to do with his anonymity, you see. No one believes he's real. And I can't prove he's real, of course. But he's a threat nonetheless.

fuck off asswipe
you are the moronic one

 

[Agnapostate]

fuck off asswipe
you are the moronic one

Shut your fucking mouth, you venereal cockgoblin.

You've failed.

 

[DiveCon]

fuck off asswipe
you are the moronic one

Shut your fucking mouth, you venereal cockgoblin.

You've failed.

no, it is YOU that has failed
fucking moron

 

[Annie]

Why did I click this thread again? Flame thread now.