CDZ Women should embrace both owning and carrying guns as acts of personal empowerment.

[koshergrl]

So is Canada going to start confiscating vans?

9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians in Toronto, sources say suspect is Alek Minassian

 

[Pop23]

So is Canada going to start confiscating vans?

9 dead, 16 injured after van strikes pedestrians in Toronto, sources say suspect is Alek Minassian

Murderers murder, it’s what they do.

Taking away one tool just makes them either get the tool in illegal ways, or they use another.

Murderers murder, if the death penalty/life sentence won’t stop them, another law sure as hell won’t.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The preferred solution is to help the victims find a safe way out of the situation first & foremost however

No, that's one obvious solution given there's an identifiable victim of violence actually seeking help as opposed to say: two abusers, both screaming bloody murder about the other daily, but never actually doing a thing more to resolve the problem,... for example.

if a firearm is desired because the perpetrator refuses to cease & desist their unlawful activities, we should

Refer to said "unlawful" "perpetrators" properly as "criminals", arrest them, charge them with violent crimes, and remove them not just from the household, but from society at large. Obviously. Well, apparently not so much to you because. lemme guess, you're here "first & foremost" to promote guns and otherwise don't really give a rat's ass. Correct?

So you think the victim and the perpetrator should be arrested and released.

How does that protect the victim?

Well, lookie you. A veritable geyser of non sequitur straw!

 

[Grumblenuts]

one cannot ignore the 20,000 gun deaths by suicide since they almost always had other means available

People choosing a tool of convenience to end their own lives shouldn't adversely impact the rights of those who do not unlawfully use their firearms.

It's not that I don't have compassion for others or those that they leave behind, it's more like the difference between a person losing their life in an automobile accident and losing it to the deliberate act of another person utilizing their vehicle as a weapon. The police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an "accident".

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

 

[Skull Pilot]

one cannot ignore the 20,000 gun deaths by suicide since they almost always had other means available

People choosing a tool of convenience to end their own lives shouldn't adversely impact the rights of those who do not unlawfully use their firearms.

It's not that I don't have compassion for others or those that they leave behind, it's more like the difference between a person losing their life in an automobile accident and losing it to the deliberate act of another person utilizing their vehicle as a weapon. The police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an "accident".

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

 

[Pop23]

one cannot ignore the 20,000 gun deaths by suicide since they almost always had other means available

People choosing a tool of convenience to end their own lives shouldn't adversely impact the rights of those who do not unlawfully use their firearms.

It's not that I don't have compassion for others or those that they leave behind, it's more like the difference between a person losing their life in an automobile accident and losing it to the deliberate act of another person utilizing their vehicle as a weapon. The police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an "accident".

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

 

[candycorn]

People choosing a tool of convenience to end their own lives shouldn't adversely impact the rights of those who do not unlawfully use their firearms.

It's not that I don't have compassion for others or those that they leave behind, it's more like the difference between a person losing their life in an automobile accident and losing it to the deliberate act of another person utilizing their vehicle as a weapon. The police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an "accident".

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

 

[Pop23]

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

 

[candycorn]

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

 

[Pop23]

Back to reality:
I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

Then you have research to back up your claim? Lets see it

 

[Skull Pilot]

True. The Police nor the insurance companies categorize a deliberate act as an accident. Neither do I.

Did the person who decided to bring a gun into their house have a means to kill themselves before they made the decision? True.
Did the person who decided to kill themselves use a gun instead of the other means in the 20,000 statistic? True.
Did the person above still have other means but chose the gun because it was quick, effective, and supposedly painless? Probably.

So the stat is relevant.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide. You can draw that conclusion because they had the means previously and chose not to. It is true that person's situations do change over time so there is that.

Now, you mentioned rights. Let me state again, that I do not want to prevent people from buying guns, owning guns, shooting guns, etc... In some rural areas of the nation where there is 100 miles (or more) to the nearest police station and it may be staffed by one officer; it would be irresponsible not to have some form of protection. My position is that the gun doesn't make you safer statistically. If the nearest cop is 100 miles away; I'll take my chances. If I'm in most areas where folks live, I wouldn't. That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe.

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

 

[candycorn]

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

Then you have research to back up your claim? Lets see it

cdc.gov.

Certainly, those who used firearms had access to walking in front of traffic, trains, drowning in their bathtub, head in the oven...etc.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Back to reality:
I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

So what?

Maybe the pills, the razor, the rope etc they had access to might have belonged to another family member too.

 

[Skull Pilot]

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

Then you have research to back up your claim? Lets see it

View attachment 189722

cdc.gov.

Certainly, those who used firearms had access to walking in front of traffic, trains, drowning in their bathtub, head in the oven...etc.

meaningless

 

[candycorn]

The point is that if the gun wasn't there, they wouldn't have committed suicide.


You can't even say that with any degree of intelligence......countries with extreme gun control, Japan, Korea, China, where only criminals and cops can have guns have higher suicide rates than we do.....and then this...

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

And you can't say this either...

That being said...there is something to the psychological aspect of having "protection" even though statistics show that you're actually less safe

No...statistics do not show this......if you are a criminal, an alcoholic, a drug user than having a gun is a problem...but normal, law abiding people with guns in their home are not less safe.....

Back to reality:

restricted to case subjects with no history of depression or mental illness revealed that guns were even more strongly associated with suicide in this group than in the study population overall. An analysis stratified according to the method of suicide revealed that the link between gun ownership and suicide was entirely due to much higher odds of suicide with a firearm.

I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

Been over this before numerous times.

They had access to drowning themselves in the tub, walking in front of traffic, head in the oven, overdosing on OTC meds, jumping off a building, etc... before the gun purchase.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Back to reality:
I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

Been over this before numerous times.

They had access to drowning themselves in the tub, walking in front of traffic, head in the oven, overdosing on OTC meds, jumping off a building, etc... before the gun purchase.

So what? You don't know when exactly the decision was made to commit suicide

 

[Pop23]

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

Thank you for your opinion, but then, it is only an opinion. Please explain then, those who had access to a gun, but chose another method.

No, that is pretty much factual. The only caveat is that the gun they had access to may have been owned by another family member.

Then you have research to back up your claim? Lets see it

View attachment 189722

cdc.gov.

Certainly, those who used firearms had access to walking in front of traffic, trains, drowning in their bathtub, head in the oven...etc.

None of that shows that limiting access to one would stop them from using another method. Another of your "saving face" moments?

Now, back to reality, here's a link to something that should really trouble you. The link to the use of SSRI's and teen suicide, and more to the point, teen violent behavior.

Antidepressants can raise the risk of suicide, biggest ever review finds

Antidepressants can raise the risk of suicide, the biggest ever review has found, as pharmaceutical companies were accused of failing to report side-effects and even deaths linked to the drugs.

An analysis of 70 trials of the most common antidepressants - involving more than 18,000 people - found they doubled the risk of suicide and aggressive behaviour in under 18s.

That's OK, blame the method, not the cause. You in Big Phama's back pocket?

 

[Pop23]

Back to reality:
I know. You don't care. Obviously. You'll keep saying "you can't say this" until the cows come home 'cause that's just the kind of worm you are...

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

Been over this before numerous times.

They had access to drowning themselves in the tub, walking in front of traffic, head in the oven, overdosing on OTC meds, jumping off a building, etc... before the gun purchase.

And you've yet to provide any research to back your claim. What gives?

 

[candycorn]

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

Been over this before numerous times.

They had access to drowning themselves in the tub, walking in front of traffic, head in the oven, overdosing on OTC meds, jumping off a building, etc... before the gun purchase.

So what? You don't know when exactly the decision was made to commit suicide

In about 22,000 cases, we do. No gun in the house (as it was before the gun was purchased) and you have fewer deaths.
Tragically they will often find a way but maybe after some contemplation...perhaps they change their minds? Maybe using a method that is less effective or permanent...they survive. Either way; its tragic.

 

[candycorn]

Suicide is a choice not a crime
But we all know how people like you feel about others having choices

And the evidence that someone who is suicidal would not use another device or method is?

You might want to also check on the use of SSRI antidepressants and violent behavior as well.

For the 20,000 who chose a gun, they almost all had other options (standing on a train track, carbon monoxide in the car, pill overdose etc...) but they chose a gun they had access to; most likely one in the house.

So what?
If they didn't have a gun they would have chose another means

And none of that matters because people have the right to take their own lives if they so choose

Been over this before numerous times.

They had access to drowning themselves in the tub, walking in front of traffic, head in the oven, overdosing on OTC meds, jumping off a building, etc... before the gun purchase.

And you've yet to provide any research to back your claim. What gives?

Nothing. Assertion cited and proven.