CDZ Women should embrace both owning and carrying guns as acts of personal empowerment.

[2aguy]

Apparently not, you wilted like the lil flower you iz

Yet here you are trying desperately to inject other forms of suicide into the thread about guns. Bless your desperate little heart. I actually feel sorry for you

The statistical nature of this conversation appears to be WAY over your mental capabilities.

If a gun is not present in a house with a suicidal person, what study do you have that proves that the person would SIMPLY not use other means.

You have provided none, so we must assume, it is NOT the gun that is the main factor in the suicide, BUT THE PERSON!

Thank you, thank you, I hope you enjoyed CandyCorns show, theirs another one in half an hour, enjoy the veal, tip the waitress.

Because it’s irrelevant...just like your shrill protest.

Because it blows you're pathetic argument out of the friggin water you mean.

20,000 people use a gun to end their lives yearly.

You must love that

No...it is left wingers who believe in abortion and ending the life of the old and inconvenient....

And again...suicide is not dependent on access to guns......what about that is so hard for you to grasp?

See, the thing is..... you hate guns..... so facts, truth and reality mean nothing to you..... that is why you are completely unable to see past your emotions....

You are an irrational human being with a phobia about guns and a hatred for gun owners...

If guns are the precursor to suicide....why do most female suicides use poison?

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

 

[2aguy]

The CDC did the research.... they did research from 1996-1998..... they found 2.4 million defensive gun uses by Americans.... they hid the data. The Department of Justice also researched gun self defense...they found 1.5 million defensive gun uses.....in 1995...... so tell them they are wrong....

Quite clearly, they are.

People....When you hear the bullshit stat of 72,000,000 million crimes stopped by someone with a gun in the last 30 years; ask yourself simple questions; do you know someone who actively stopped a violent crime with a gun? It is quite likely that you do not. Certainly, with 72,000,000 people out there stopping violent crimes, you should have run across probably 100 or 200. Again, do you know someone? Do any of the people you know have an awareness of a guy with a gun actively stopping someone by using a gun? Again, likely not. As pointed out by another poster, that is 6575 times a day or, if you prefer 273 times an hour; every hour; even at 4AM in the morning on Christmas!!!!

9/11 Truthers make more sense than this jerk.

No, Chuckles, it's quite likely YOU do not, because you live in a bubble with a giant "No Conservatives Allowed" sign hanging on it. I'll bet you ALSO don't personally know anyone who voted for Donald Trump, but that self-evidently doesn't mean no one DID.

I myself know a number of people who have used guns defensively. I even know a few people who have done so more than once.

Furthermore, do you ever stop to question why anything you disagree with is automatically "bullshit" and "impossible", regardless of where it comes from? I mean, here you are saying that the Department of Justice's statistics are "bullshit" simply because YOU don't think they sound right. Does that produce any sort of cognitive dissonance in your head at all?

So you honestly believe that a population the size of Europe actually actively prevented violent crimes on top of all of the crimes that we know about? Put another way, you think that there was 72 million more crimes than was reported.....

You’re mental if you do.

Over 30 years? Yes, I do. And I consider it far more "mental" to airily dismiss statistics from experts simply because I don't like how they sound. Conclusions, maybe, but not the raw stats. I wouldn't dismiss raw stats on abortion from the Guttmacher Institute on that basis; but then, I'm not a dogmatic partisan hack.

Also, just FYI, I don't recall the CDC or anyone else specifying "violent crimes". That's just you.

The CDC did the research.... they did research from 1996-1998..... they found 2.4 million defensive gun uses by Americans.... they hid the data. The Department of Justice also researched gun self defense...they found 1.5 million defensive gun uses.....in 1995...... so tell them they are wrong....

Quite clearly, they are.

People....When you hear the bullshit stat of 72,000,000 million crimes stopped by someone with a gun in the last 30 years; ask yourself simple questions; do you know someone who actively stopped a violent crime with a gun? It is quite likely that you do not. Certainly, with 72,000,000 people out there stopping violent crimes, you should have run across probably 100 or 200. Again, do you know someone? Do any of the people you know have an awareness of a guy with a gun actively stopping someone by using a gun? Again, likely not. As pointed out by another poster, that is 6575 times a day or, if you prefer 273 times an hour; every hour; even at 4AM in the morning on Christmas!!!!

9/11 Truthers make more sense than this jerk.

No, Chuckles, it's quite likely YOU do not, because you live in a bubble with a giant "No Conservatives Allowed" sign hanging on it. I'll bet you ALSO don't personally know anyone who voted for Donald Trump, but that self-evidently doesn't mean no one DID.

I myself know a number of people who have used guns defensively. I even know a few people who have done so more than once.

Furthermore, do you ever stop to question why anything you disagree with is automatically "bullshit" and "impossible", regardless of where it comes from? I mean, here you are saying that the Department of Justice's statistics are "bullshit" simply because YOU don't think they sound right. Does that produce any sort of cognitive dissonance in your head at all?

So you honestly believe that a population the size of Europe actually actively prevented violent crimes on top of all of the crimes that we know about? Put another way, you think that there was 72 million more crimes than was reported.....

You’re mental if you do.

Over 30 years? Yes, I do. And I consider it far more "mental" to airily dismiss statistics from experts simply because I don't like how they sound. Conclusions, maybe, but not the raw stats. I wouldn't dismiss raw stats on abortion from the Guttmacher Institute on that basis; but then, I'm not a dogmatic partisan hack.

Also, just FYI, I don't recall the CDC or anyone else specifying "violent crimes". That's just you.

That is because you have mastery of the facts or anything else:

The original lie was this from a few years back:

according to bill clinton and his Department of Justice, Americans use guns 1.5 million times each uear to stop violent criminal attack...

Now it's been inflated to 2.4 million. In a few years, it will be 100 million preventative gun uses.

Still, most of us know of nobody who was a victim of violent crime, even fewer know someone who whipped out their gun to prevent one. The overwhelming majority of THAT number know nobody who knows anyone who had to defend themselves against violent crime.

Still, idiots like you would like the world to believe that there are all of these instances are taking place...hundreds of times an hour but nobody is hearing gunshots of those valiant self-defenders or seeing gunfights in the streets. LOL

42 years of research, with the most famous studies done by rabidly anti gun researchers....who went into the research determined to prove that defensive gun use was rare......extremely rare......and they used Government agencies that you guys worship......especially the CDC who you have all been screeching needs to do more gun research......and now that it has been shown they actually did gun research you don't like what they found.....they even hid the data ........

And the CDC and the Department of Justice....are just two of about a dozen.....and those two set out to prove Gary Kleck, another anti gunner, wrong.....he released his research and bill clinton deployed the CDC and the Department of Justice to prove him wrong......and now you refuse to acknowledge what they found in studies they created.......

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 2.46 million ( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

 

[Cecilie1200]

Quite clearly, they are.

People....When you hear the bullshit stat of 72,000,000 million crimes stopped by someone with a gun in the last 30 years; ask yourself simple questions; do you know someone who actively stopped a violent crime with a gun? It is quite likely that you do not. Certainly, with 72,000,000 people out there stopping violent crimes, you should have run across probably 100 or 200. Again, do you know someone? Do any of the people you know have an awareness of a guy with a gun actively stopping someone by using a gun? Again, likely not. As pointed out by another poster, that is 6575 times a day or, if you prefer 273 times an hour; every hour; even at 4AM in the morning on Christmas!!!!

9/11 Truthers make more sense than this jerk.

I have never met anyone who had an encounter with a bear out in the wild....so I guess that means there are no bears in the wild........

I do know someone who used a gun to scare off 2 robbers...... I know 2 people who were robbed at gun point, had they had guns at the time, they wouldn't have been robbed.....

Wow...3; were they in the same day? If not, you have to account for the other 6500 on those days.

As for bears in the wild--the latest false equivalence from gun nuts I suppose--they do exist and people do encounter them; likely not 6,500 in a day or 72,000,000 in 30 years; just like you repeating the fable about active gun defenses.

So NOW your "evidence" that the Department of Justice is "bullshit" is that 2aguy is PERSONALLY required to know every one of 72 million people over the last 30 years, or it's all invalid?

Can you possibly see how people MIGHT dismiss you as a blind partisan hack who not only isn't interested in the truth, but is actively hostile to it?

6500+ instances a day. One would logically think 10% would be reported. If you can find 0.5% reported (32) tomorrow, I’ll embrace the number.

There are over 320 million people in the country........ 6,500 isn't even a blip....

Interesting how leftists have no problem accepting the idea that there are almost 16,000 murders a day in this country, but the idea of 6,500 crimes of all description being PREVENTED per day is just ludicrous in their eyes.

 

[ChrisL]

Yet here you are trying desperately to inject other forms of suicide into the thread about guns. Bless your desperate little heart. I actually feel sorry for you

The statistical nature of this conversation appears to be WAY over your mental capabilities.

If a gun is not present in a house with a suicidal person, what study do you have that proves that the person would SIMPLY not use other means.

You have provided none, so we must assume, it is NOT the gun that is the main factor in the suicide, BUT THE PERSON!

Thank you, thank you, I hope you enjoyed CandyCorns show, theirs another one in half an hour, enjoy the veal, tip the waitress.

Because it’s irrelevant...just like your shrill protest.

Because it blows you're pathetic argument out of the friggin water you mean.

20,000 people use a gun to end their lives yearly.

You must love that

No...it is left wingers who believe in abortion and ending the life of the old and inconvenient....

And again...suicide is not dependent on access to guns......what about that is so hard for you to grasp?

See, the thing is..... you hate guns..... so facts, truth and reality mean nothing to you..... that is why you are completely unable to see past your emotions....

You are an irrational human being with a phobia about guns and a hatred for gun owners...

If guns are the precursor to suicide....why do most female suicides use poison?

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

Your posts are SO awesome. You just bury the ignorant leftists in facts. Lol. Keep up the good work of trying to educate them, not that it will do any good. Ideological brainwashing is tough to overcome.

 

[ChrisL]

I have never met anyone who had an encounter with a bear out in the wild....so I guess that means there are no bears in the wild........

I do know someone who used a gun to scare off 2 robbers...... I know 2 people who were robbed at gun point, had they had guns at the time, they wouldn't have been robbed.....

Wow...3; were they in the same day? If not, you have to account for the other 6500 on those days.

As for bears in the wild--the latest false equivalence from gun nuts I suppose--they do exist and people do encounter them; likely not 6,500 in a day or 72,000,000 in 30 years; just like you repeating the fable about active gun defenses.

So NOW your "evidence" that the Department of Justice is "bullshit" is that 2aguy is PERSONALLY required to know every one of 72 million people over the last 30 years, or it's all invalid?

Can you possibly see how people MIGHT dismiss you as a blind partisan hack who not only isn't interested in the truth, but is actively hostile to it?

6500+ instances a day. One would logically think 10% would be reported. If you can find 0.5% reported (32) tomorrow, I’ll embrace the number.

There are over 320 million people in the country........ 6,500 isn't even a blip....

Interesting how leftists have no problem accepting the idea that there are almost 16,000 murders a day in this country, but the idea of 6,500 crimes of all description being PREVENTED per day is just ludicrous in their eyes.

I think it is mostly because they are dishonest and lack any integrity.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Another minute, another naive lemming cues up for the cliff. The thing about the proverbial sucker born every minute is they have an excuse. An adult simply imagining themself not to be a sucker doesn't git 'er done. Educate yourself. Yes, disgusting, well paid shills here. Pasting slick propaganda. Building a religious following of spineless cows. Don't be a spineless cow!

 

[ChrisL]

Another minute, another naive lemming cues up for the cliff. The thing about the proverbial sucker born every minute is they have an excuse. An adult simply imagining themself not to be a sucker doesn't git 'er done. Educate yourself. Yes, disgusting, well paid shills here. Pasting slick propaganda. Building a religious following of spineless cows. Don't be a spineless cow!

Compared to the likes of a person who would volunteer to give up one of his rights to the government, I am a lion. Lol! The facts are that criminals don't want to lose their lives in the commission of a crime. the mere site of a gun can scare them away which, in turn, makes it so that you do NOT become another statistic. Now, this may not be able to happen in every instance, but it happens in enough instances where it makes it a worthwhile protective measure. That is why the cops and security guards, etc., are armed in most cases.

 

[ChrisL]

I am a lion too.

 

[candycorn]

I have never met anyone who had an encounter with a bear out in the wild....so I guess that means there are no bears in the wild........

I do know someone who used a gun to scare off 2 robbers...... I know 2 people who were robbed at gun point, had they had guns at the time, they wouldn't have been robbed.....

Wow...3; were they in the same day? If not, you have to account for the other 6500 on those days.

As for bears in the wild--the latest false equivalence from gun nuts I suppose--they do exist and people do encounter them; likely not 6,500 in a day or 72,000,000 in 30 years; just like you repeating the fable about active gun defenses.

So NOW your "evidence" that the Department of Justice is "bullshit" is that 2aguy is PERSONALLY required to know every one of 72 million people over the last 30 years, or it's all invalid?

Can you possibly see how people MIGHT dismiss you as a blind partisan hack who not only isn't interested in the truth, but is actively hostile to it?

6500+ instances a day. One would logically think 10% would be reported. If you can find 0.5% reported (32) tomorrow, I’ll embrace the number.

There are over 320 million people in the country........ 6,500 isn't even a blip....

Interesting how leftists have no problem accepting the idea that there are almost 16,000 murders a day in this country, but the idea of 6,500 crimes of all description being PREVENTED per day is just ludicrous in their eyes.

Sixteen thousand murders a day…that is what, 5.8 million per year. You sure?

 

[candycorn]

The statistical nature of this conversation appears to be WAY over your mental capabilities.

If a gun is not present in a house with a suicidal person, what study do you have that proves that the person would SIMPLY not use other means.

You have provided none, so we must assume, it is NOT the gun that is the main factor in the suicide, BUT THE PERSON!

Thank you, thank you, I hope you enjoyed CandyCorns show, theirs another one in half an hour, enjoy the veal, tip the waitress.

Because it’s irrelevant...just like your shrill protest.

Because it blows you're pathetic argument out of the friggin water you mean.

20,000 people use a gun to end their lives yearly.

You must love that

No...it is left wingers who believe in abortion and ending the life of the old and inconvenient....

And again...suicide is not dependent on access to guns......what about that is so hard for you to grasp?

See, the thing is..... you hate guns..... so facts, truth and reality mean nothing to you..... that is why you are completely unable to see past your emotions....

You are an irrational human being with a phobia about guns and a hatred for gun owners...

If guns are the precursor to suicide....why do most female suicides use poison?

Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.

Your posts are SO awesome. You just bury the ignorant leftists in facts. Lol. Keep up the good work of trying to educate them, not that it will do any good. Ideological brainwashing is tough to overcome.

So you really think there were 5.8 million murders last year?