Without Quotas.. what elite admissions actually look like

[abu afak]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

 

[abu afak]

To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians
By Dennis Saffran
July 19, 2014
To make elite schools ‘fair,’ city will punish poor Asians | New York Post

[....]New York’s specialized high schools, including Stuyvesant and the equally storied Bronx High School of Science, along with Brooklyn Technical High School and five smaller schools, have produced 14 Nobel laureates - more than most countries. For more than 70 years, admission to these schools has been based upon a competitive examination of math, verbal and logical reasoning skills. In 1971, the state legislature, heading off city efforts to scrap the merit selection test as culturally biased against minorities, reaffirmed that admission to the schools be based on the competitive exam.

But now, troubled by declining black and Hispanic enrollment at the schools, opponents of the exam have resurfaced. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund has filed a civil-rights complaint challenging the admissions process....And new Mayor Bill de Blasio... It’s not affluent whites, but rather the city’s burgeoning population of Asian-American immigrants - a group that, despite its successes, remains disproportionately poor and working-class..
[.....]
.. Blacks constituted 13% of the student body at Stuyvesant in 1979, 5% in 1994 and just 1% the last few years, while Hispanics dropped from a high of 4% to 2% today. Similarly, at Bronx Science, black enrollment has fallen from 12% in 1994 to 3% currently and Hispanic enrollment has leveled off, from about 10% to 6%. The figures are even more striking at the less selective Brooklyn Tech, where blacks made up 37% of the student body in 1994 but only 8% today..

These declining minority numbers have not been matched by a corresponding increase in whites, however. In fact, white enrollment at Stuyvesant, Bronx Science and Brooklyn Tech has plummeted as well, dropping from 79%, 81% and 77%, respectively, in 1971 to just 22%, 23% and 20% today. Rather, it is New York City’s fastest-growing racial minority group, Asian-Americans, who have come to dominate these schools. Asians, while always a presence in New York, didn’t begin arriving in the city in large numbers until immigration restrictions were lifted with passage of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965...

Since then, their proportion of the city’s population has increased from less than 1% to about 13%- their share of the specialized school population has skyrocketed. Asian students constituted 6% of the enrollment at Stuyvesant in 1970 and 50% in 1994; they make up an incredible 73% of the student body this year. The story is similar at Bronx Science, where the Asian population has Exploded from 5% in 1970 to 41% in 1994 to 62%..
The ‘rich’ fallacy
Asians in New York are overwhelmingly first- and second-generation; some 3/4 of the students at Stuyvesant are immigrants or the children of immigrants...
[.....]
A Liberal Nightmare
All this once would have been the stuff of liberal dreams: A racial minority group historically victimized by discrimination begins coming to America in greater numbers because of an immigration reform....
[.....]​

`

 

[harmonica]

IMO, the Asian culture, in general, is superior to the American culture--as we see in graduation/test scores
ooops--I'm white and American --can I say that??

 

[abu afak]

an update on the NYC Elite (by merit) High Schools since the above.
This from the unhappy liberal 'NY Daily News.'

March 8th, 2018
Flunking the test to get black & Latino kids into the top schools

Another round of test results and another year of coveted offers for spots in the city’s elite public high schools brings yet another decline in the already Microscopic number of Black and Latino students admitted.”
Those were this column’s opening words two years ago. Last year, we wrote something similar. The past bears repeating because the new numbers for last fall’s Specialized High Schools Admissions Test are not just bad, but abysmal.

While 28,333 eighth graders sat for the test to qualify for spots in Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech and five smaller schools, a 2% increase, the number of black and Latino kids taking the test fell 2%. The corresponding results: Just 10 black students were admitted to a Stuyvesant class of 902, down from 13 admitted last year. The Latino results dipped from 28 to 27.

Mayor de Blasio and Chancellor Carmen Fariña, who decry the lack of diversity, promised progress. They dropped a section of the exam that had no connection to classroom work. For naught.
They had dedicated outreach teams encourage more black/Latino testers. For naught.
[.....]
​

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

IMO, the Asian culture, in general, is superior to the American culture--as we see in graduation/test scores
ooops--I'm white and American --can I say that??

That's not culture home skillet...that's genetics. The Chinese, for example were making advances hundreds of years ahead of the rest of the world.
Top 18 Ancient Chinese Inventions - AncientHistoryLists
It is no coincidence that the highest IQ nations on the Earth are populated by East Asian people.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli
Dec 9, 2010
[..........]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy -- California Institute of Technology
, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The statistics on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by three-quarters of his fellow entering freshmen.
Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his entering classmates. A combined SAT score of 1470 (the 99th percentile by national standards) placed an entering Caltech freshman at only the 25th percentile among his fellow students. (At Harvard and Princeton, by contrast, the 25th percentile is reached by a score of only 1380).
All recent Caltech undergraduates have scored 700 or above on the math SAT, and far from being a bunch of inarticulate science and math geeks, the vast majority have scored over 700 on the English verbal SAT as well. Most Caltech matriculants have also taken numerous Advanced Placement courses in high school, and attained perfect scores on their AP exams. In short, Caltech is interested in enrolling only the academically most accomplished and advanced students, who have a genuine passion for the STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering, mathematics), and virtually all of its entering students have achieved at the 98th or 99th percentile in terms of their scores on competitive national exams.

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students. It is clear from its published statistics that the non-academic criteria that preoccupy admissions committees at all other elite universities count for little at this beacon of pure meritocracy. Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities -- including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment -- is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.

In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236).
The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking -- less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".

This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians.
Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites.
Applicants to Caltech are clearly seen as representing Only themselves and their own Individual merit and achievement, Not their Race or their ethnic group.
As a professor at Caltech who has taught there for many years explained to me in an email, "We try, like our competitors, very, very hard to find, recruit, and nurture underrepresented minorities but We won't bend our standards."
[.......]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`

Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

/----/ democRATs always hated the Asians. They locked them up in WWII and now lock them out of colleges.

 

[Toro]

100% Asian

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

an update on the NYC Elite (by merit) High Schools since the above.
This from the unhappy liberal 'NY Daily News.'
March 8th, 2018

Flunking the test to get black & Latino kids into the top schools

Another round of test results and another year of coveted offers for spots in the city’s elite public high schools brings yet another decline in the already Microscopic number of Black and Latino students admitted.”

Those were this column’s opening words two years ago. Last year, we wrote something similar.

The past bears repeating because the new numbers for last fall’s Specialized High Schools Admissions Test are not just bad, but abysmal.

While 28,333 eighth graders sat for the test to qualify for spots in Stuyvesant, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech and five smaller schools, a 2% increase, the number of black and Latino kids taking the test fell 2%. The corresponding results: Just 10 black students were admitted to a Stuyvesant class of 902, down from 13 admitted last year. The Latino results dipped from 28 to 27.

Mayor de Blasio and Chancellor Carmen Fariña, who decry the lack of diversity, promised progress. They dropped a section of the exam that had no connection to classroom work. For naught.

They had dedicated outreach teams encourage more black/Latino testers. For naught.
[.....]
​

I will say it without a modicum of reticence. Most Hispanics and Blacks cannot hang with high level math and science courses. Additionally, I.Q. is not a myth, it is as real as any other physiological factor. The brain is an organ and it is as impacted by genetic limitation as any other component in the body. Despite years of paving pathways and creating inroads (culturally and legislatively) we are faced with exact same truths that people had 100 years ago. The 'Magical Dirt' theory is a farce.

 

[IM2]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

So you want to go back to the days where quotas were 100 percent white and merit did not apply. Cal Tech is no elite college and it only has 2,100 students. But it's the one you could find that validates your psychosis.

 

[abu afak]

So you want to go back to the days where quotas were 100 percent white and merit did not apply. Cal Tech is no elite college and it only has 2,100 students. But it's the one you could find that validates your psychosis.

No No, MORON.

I want to have Race-Blind admissions by 100% MERIT, not quota.
AND you Blundering Stupid Ebonics Clown..
it's Asians, Not Whites that really shine under a Merit system.

You mischaractetized, or were too STUPID, to understand anything posted.
You are too stupid (or Dishonest) to be even on this low level board.

And BTW, Ebonics boy...
Caltech is in top 10 in most lists:

#6 at Forbes out of 650 listed.
America's Top Colleges
`

 

[IM2]

So you want to go back to the days where quotas were 100 percent white and merit did not apply. Cal Tech is no elite college and it only has 2,100 students. But it's the one you could find that validates your psychosis.

No No, MORON.

I want to have Race-Blind admissions by 100% MERIT, not quota.
AND you Blundering Stupid Ebonics Clown..
it's Asians, Not Whites that really shine under a Merit system.

You mischaractetized, or were too STUPID, to understand anything posted.
You are too stupid (or Dishonest) to be even on this low level board.

And BTW, Ebonics boy...
Caltech is in top 10 in most lists:

#6 at Forbes out of 650 listed.
America's Top Colleges
`

So like I said Aflac, So you want to go back to the days where quotas were 100 percent white and merit did not apply. Because merit never mattered and tes scores were never, ever the sole criteria. Tests are sooooooo important that many elite colleges are making them optional.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Clearly, these top Universities need to add free throw proficiency and basketball dribbling to their admissions tests

 

[AKIP]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

There seems to be an inherent bias in the article. When talking about Hispanics, the author noted that California has one of the largest Hispanic population, but only 13 out of 226 (little less than 6%) entering freshman were Hispanic. However, when talking about the Asian student body, the noted the NATIONAL Asian population percentage being only 4%, but 40% of the freshman class. Why did not the author note that Asians are 12% of California population and that nearly a third of all Asians in the United States live in California? Why talk about Hispanics high population in California and not also mention Asians high population in California. The Asian population in California is twice that of the black population in California and I assume that most Cal Tech students are from California.

Cal Tech specializes in STEM curriculum. Many Asians MAY aim at fields in this area. To many Asian students in California, their dream may be Cal Tech, especially given its already high percentage Asian population. Asians may see that as an "Asian" college and hence many Asians want to apply there while Blacks and Hispanics may not want to apply there because there are not a lot of blacks or Hispanics. I don't know about Hispanics but black students generally do not want to attend schools where there are few blacks and black students who are high achievers academically are not concentrated in STEM curriculum.

There are so many variables that are not being considered. Granted, I only read what was posted, not the sourced article.

 

[Unkotare]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

There seems to be an inherent bias in the article. When talking about Hispanics, the author noted that California has one of the largest Hispanic population, but only 13 out of 226 (little less than 6%) entering freshman were Hispanic. However, when talking about the Asian student body, the noted the NATIONAL Asian population percentage being only 4%, but 40% of the freshman class. Why did not the author note that Asians are 12% of California population and that nearly a third of all Asians in the United States live in California? Why talk about Hispanics high population in California and not also mention Asians high population in California. The Asian population in California is twice that of the black population in California and I assume that most Cal Tech students are from California.

Cal Tech specializes in STEM curriculum. Many Asians MAY aim at fields in this area. To many Asian students in California, their dream may be Cal Tech, especially given its already high percentage Asian population. Asians may see that as an "Asian" college and hence many Asians want to apply there........e.

That’s a poor guess. You’re trying too hard.

 

[TheParser]

Yes, if merit were the only consideration for entrance, then Asian people and Caucasian (especially Jewish) people would fill almost all of the seats.

But it is too hurtful to tell two certain ethnicities that they should forget attending college.

So it is understandable that most universities now use affirmative action to make sure that there is some diversity.

Yes, I know that this means some qualified Asian and Caucasians will be unable to attend the university of their choice, but they have to understand that everyone must do his/her part for societal peace and harmony in our unique country.

*****

Personally, I am delighted to hear that Caltech does NOT have quotas. When it comes to the sciences, we want the most competent graduates.


We should NOT forget, however, that there are some non-Asian and non-Caucasian secondary school students who are equally as intelligent as Asians and Caucasians. If given a chance, they CAN do well in the sciences, too. They do not need to major in the fine arts in order to get a degree -- IMHO.

 

[AKIP]

Yes, if merit were the only consideration for entrance, then Asian people and Caucasian (especially Jewish) people would fill almost all of the seats.

But it is too hurtful to tell two certain ethnicities that they should forget attending college.

So it is understandable that most universities now use affirmative action to make sure that there is some diversity.

Yes, I know that this means some qualified Asian and Caucasians will be unable to attend the university of their choice, but they have to understand that everyone must do his/her part for societal peace and harmony in our unique country.

*****

Personally, I am delighted to hear that Caltech does NOT have quotas. When it comes to the sciences, we want the most competent graduates.


We should NOT forget, however, that there are some non-Asian and non-Caucasian secondary school students who are equally as intelligent as Asians and Caucasians. If given a chance, they CAN do well in the sciences, too. They do not need to major in the fine arts in order to get a degree -- IMHO.

Getting into prestigious universities is simply not the goal of most African American students. Asian parents and many white parents define themselves and their success by acceptance to elite Universities, while many black parents do not. Many black parents, especially those who graduated from HBCUs, want their kids to go to HBCUs like Howard, Morehouse, Spellman, etc. Blacks simply do not value attending such elite universities to the degree that Asians and Whites define themselves by such.

You all seem to be making a big deal about the low percentage of blacks. I really could not care less. It demonstrates or proves nothing to me, which I am sure is the goal. Given the history of what has happened to blacks in this nation, that history will always be the explanation for such observations in my book.

You all keep trying to show blacks as inferior and I keep demonstrating how racism is the cause of that. It's a never ending tug of war between those who are trying to prove blacks innately inferior and those of us on the other side who are saying that the consequence of racism is an inferior condition.

 

[Paul Essien]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

The myth of dumb black people getting spots we did not deserve again ?

There have been people who have tried (And failed) to be prove that this is true

Let me introduce Vijay Chokalingam

He's Mindy Kalling’s brother. That’s Mindy Kaling the actress who starred in the the Mindy Project

Chokalingam wrote a book about how he pretended to be a black man to get into uni’s with the same score that he could not get into as Asian man to prove that this system is racist to Asians and white and biased to black.

"These dumb negros getting all these undeserved spots !! Why did I as a superior high IQ Asian have to suffer to allow one of these bastards in" !!!!!

Google (Vijay Chokalingam) if you think I'm making it up.

So this is what he did. He shaved the hair of his head off n all that shit and applied as a black man

He had a 3.1 GPA and MCAT score of 31Q. He submitted applications to medical school and an essay to 26 top and middle-tier medical schools around the country named “Jojo Chokalingam”

He claims he was admitted to St. Louis University School of Medicine. This is ranked #57th in the country and that was evidence of “less stringent” standards for black applicants.

What he did not say was that he was rejected from most of the medical schools he applied to:

• Columbia University,
• Cornell University
• George Washington University
• Mount Sinai
• University of Nebraska
• Nobay
• University of Pittsburgh
• University of Rochester
• University of Pennsylvania
• Washington University
• University of Wisconsin
• Yale University
• Case Western.

He withdrew his application from quite a few schools when he realized that those rejections would go against his agenda; those include: Vanderbilt University and Harvard University and a few others.

But he made a big deal that he received an invitation to apply from other schools based on his MCAT score (mostly lower-tier schools such as Ohio University) without noting that he received those letters for no other reason than because his MCAT score actually was within the range acceptable to these schools.

Fact is this clown as a black man was rejected from 93% of those he applied to but he wanted everyone to focus on the fact that he was accepted into a single medical school: St. Louis University School of Medicine.

Of course, he concludes, he only got in St. Louis because he was (playing at) Black, right?

St. Louis University School of Medicine isn’t that great a medical school. His application while mediocre, was not weak enough to disqualify him. Nothing to do with whether he lied or was honest about his race..

Getting on black people is easy.

Why don’t you get angry at the University of Michigan (And many uni's in America) who give out 16 points to kids from certain lily-white Upper Peninsulas ?

• And 4 points for children of overwhelmingly white alumni ?
• And 10 points for students who went to the state’s “top” schools ?
• And 8 points for those who took a full slate of Advanced Placement classes in high schools (which classes are far less available in schools serving students blk students) ?

Na. To you this is seen as perfectly fair, and not at all racially preferential. Right ?

People say blacks should "work hard and stop looking for handouts" but when blacks achieve they are chomping at the bits to find reasons why blacks don’t deserve to sit at the table ?

Which is it ?

They are letting dumb-ass white students in there all day because of their fathers or uncles. Most blacks applying could run circles around them academically but they would never ever be admitted.

College admissions is nothing but game.

It’s not just a cold statistical numbers score that you naively think it is..

They can and do say anything to black students "your application was late" "it got lost" "We don’t like your essay"............. ANYTHING.

Our black ass is not getting in - No matter what.

They reserve over 60% of seats for white students at most schools, graduate and undergraduate and then about 10-20% for asians and Indians.

If your lame cry baby ass can't wiggle in one of those spots, that's your own fault.

We are taking no one's spots trust me.

You have a legacy and being a legacy only works if you have a trust fund and your parents have been donating a good % of their annual salary to the school or your dad holds political office or your parents are fortune 500 CEOs, COOs, CFOs or CAOs. Anyone else, it's still a crap shot.

It might get your resume an extra 5 second glance but if they see average jobs and medium income zip-code on your application, you can forget about it.

Blaming the handful of black people that get in is ridiculous. More Black Americans are becoming doctors (despite the obstacles set for black people) and non-blacks hate to see a black person who is superior to them in anything and become bitter and jealous.

 

[Unkotare]

Yes, if merit were the only consideration for entrance, then Asian people and Caucasian (especially Jewish) people would fill almost all of the seats.

But it is too hurtful to tell two certain ethnicities that they should forget attending college.

So it is understandable that most universities now use affirmative action to make sure that there is some diversity.

Yes, I know that this means some qualified Asian and Caucasians will be unable to attend the university of their choice, but they have to understand that everyone must do his/her part for societal peace and harmony in our unique country.

*****

Personally, I am delighted to hear that Caltech does NOT have quotas. When it comes to the sciences, we want the most competent graduates.


We should NOT forget, however, that there are some non-Asian and non-Caucasian secondary school students who are equally as intelligent as Asians and Caucasians. If given a chance, they CAN do well in the sciences, too. They do not need to major in the fine arts in order to get a degree -- IMHO.

Getting into prestigious universities is simply not the goal of most African American students. Asian parents and many white parents define themselves and their success by acceptance to elite Universities, while many black parents do not. Many black parents, especially those who graduated from HBCUs, want their kids to go to HBCUs like Howard, Morehouse, Spellman, etc. Blacks simply do not value attending such elite universities to the degree that Asians and Whites define themselves by such.

....

What insulting nonsense

 

[AKIP]

Yes, if merit were the only consideration for entrance, then Asian people and Caucasian (especially Jewish) people would fill almost all of the seats.

But it is too hurtful to tell two certain ethnicities that they should forget attending college.

So it is understandable that most universities now use affirmative action to make sure that there is some diversity.

Yes, I know that this means some qualified Asian and Caucasians will be unable to attend the university of their choice, but they have to understand that everyone must do his/her part for societal peace and harmony in our unique country.

*****

Personally, I am delighted to hear that Caltech does NOT have quotas. When it comes to the sciences, we want the most competent graduates.


We should NOT forget, however, that there are some non-Asian and non-Caucasian secondary school students who are equally as intelligent as Asians and Caucasians. If given a chance, they CAN do well in the sciences, too. They do not need to major in the fine arts in order to get a degree -- IMHO.

Getting into prestigious universities is simply not the goal of most African American students. Asian parents and many white parents define themselves and their success by acceptance to elite Universities, while many black parents do not. Many black parents, especially those who graduated from HBCUs, want their kids to go to HBCUs like Howard, Morehouse, Spellman, etc. Blacks simply do not value attending such elite universities to the degree that Asians and Whites define themselves by such.

....

What insulting nonsense

I am 53. My parents generation were not allowed into white universities and neither were their antecedents. Historically Black Colleges and Universities is where they had no choice but to go. Most of those in my generation also went to HCBUs, because they felt more accepted and respected than at majority white institutions. Most African Americans do not want to attend universities where there are few African Americans UNLESS they were raised in environments where there were few African Americans. Even those who are reared in such environments often attend HBCU by choice because they want an experience that they have never had in being in a majority black environment. Also, blacks tend not to choose STEM curriculum, where as Asians seems to gravitate toward those curriculum. Now....I wish more AA were interested in the STEM curriculum but because they are not the best and brightest young AA high school graduates do not seek to matriculate into schools like Cal Tech or MIT.

 

[AKIP]

Want to see what a Bias Free, Quota Free, Top school, admission profile looks like?
First, a focus on arguably the Best college in the country.. and why.
The graph/numbers still above.
This is one of the Only top colleges without a Racial admissions policy. One that's Asian student body keeps climbing along with the number of advanced Asian students, unlike the Bigoted Ivy League schools who've All put/Capped/Quota-ed Asians at app ±16%.

Why Caltech Is in a Class by Itself | Minding The Campus
By Russell K. Nieli - Dec 9, 2010
[....]

Toward a Pure Meritocracy

Of the top two dozen or so elite universities in America only one has managed both to avoid the craziness of the post-60s intellectual fads, and to establish something pretty close to a pure meritocracy - California Institute of Technology, which has not received the general recognition among academics that it clearly deserves.

The stats on Caltech's students and faculty are simply spellbinding. An entering Caltech freshman last year who received a 770 on the math SAT would be exceeded in this area by 3/4 of his fellow entering freshmen. Many Caltech freshmen got a perfect 800 on their math SAT, while a near-perfect 1560 combination score placed an incoming freshmen at only the 75th percentile of his..classmates..

What this means is that at Caltech, there are no dumb jocks, dumb legacies, or dumb Affirmative Action students... Perhaps the most striking difference from all other elite universities - including institutions like MIT and the University of Chicago which forgo athletic recruitment - is Caltech's complete Indifference to Racial balancing.
In a state and a region of the country with the largest Hispanic population, Caltech's entering freshmen class in 2008 was less than 6% Hispanic (13 out of 236). The unwillingness to lower standards for a larger Black representation is even more striking - less than 1% (2/236) of Caltech's 2008 entering freshmen were listed as "non-Hispanic black".
This "Underrepresentation" of Blacks and Hispanics, of course, was more than made up for by the Huge "Overrepresentation" of Asians. Only 4% of the U.S. population, Asians made up a whopping 40% of the incoming freshmen class in 2008, a slightly larger proportion than the 39% figure for whites....
[.....]
​

That's what happens without Quotas/"Holistic" admissions/Racial balancing. (tho they DO seek minorities; just don't bend admissions/lower standards)
Asians, only 4% of the population are 40% of the meritocratic student body. Higher than the percentage for the much larger population group, whites.
`
Yet at Harvard, the last class admission was 14.7% Black, exactly 2% more than their population percentage!
`

The myth of dumb black people getting spots we did not deserve again ?

There have been people who have tried (And failed) to be prove that this is true

Let me introduce Vijay Chokalingam

He's Mindy Kalling’s brother. That’s Mindy Kaling the actress who starred in the the Mindy Project

Chokalingam wrote a book about how he pretended to be a black man to get into uni’s with the same score that he could not get into as Asian man to prove that this system is racist to Asians and white and biased to black.

"These dumb negros getting all these undeserved spots !! Why did I as a superior high IQ Asian have to suffer to allow one of these bastards in" !!!!!

Google (Vijay Chokalingam) if you think I'm making it up.

So this is what he did. He shaved the hair of his head off n all that shit and applied as a black man

He had a 3.1 GPA and MCAT score of 31Q. He submitted applications to medical school and an essay to 26 top and middle-tier medical schools around the country named “Jojo Chokalingam”

He claims he was admitted to St. Louis University School of Medicine. This is ranked #57th in the country and that was evidence of “less stringent” standards for black applicants.

What he did not say was that he was rejected from most of the medical schools he applied to:

• Columbia University,
• Cornell University
• George Washington University
• Mount Sinai
• University of Nebraska
• Nobay
• University of Pittsburgh
• University of Rochester
• University of Pennsylvania
• Washington University
• University of Wisconsin
• Yale University
• Case Western.

He withdrew his application from quite a few schools when he realized that those rejections would go against his agenda; those include: Vanderbilt University and Harvard University and a few others.

But he made a big deal that he received an invitation to apply from other schools based on his MCAT score (mostly lower-tier schools such as Ohio University) without noting that he received those letters for no other reason than because his MCAT score actually was within the range acceptable to these schools.

Fact is this clown as a black man was rejected from 93% of those he applied to but he wanted everyone to focus on the fact that he was accepted into a single medical school: St. Louis University School of Medicine.

Of course, he concludes, he only got in St. Louis because he was (playing at) Black, right?

St. Louis University School of Medicine isn’t that great a medical school. His application while mediocre, was not weak enough to disqualify him. Nothing to do with whether he lied or was honest about his race..

Getting on black people is easy.

Why don’t you get angry at the University of Michigan (And many uni's in America) who give out 16 points to kids from certain lily-white Upper Peninsulas ?

• And 4 points for children of overwhelmingly white alumni ?
• And 10 points for students who went to the state’s “top” schools ?
• And 8 points for those who took a full slate of Advanced Placement classes in high schools (which classes are far less available in schools serving students blk students) ?

Na. To you this is seen as perfectly fair, and not at all racially preferential. Right ?

People say blacks should "work hard and stop looking for handouts" but when blacks achieve they are chomping at the bits to find reasons why blacks don’t deserve to sit at the table ?

Which is it ?

They are letting dumb-ass white students in there all day because of their fathers or uncles. Most blacks applying could run circles around them academically but they would never ever be admitted.

College admissions is nothing but game.

It’s not just a cold statistical numbers score that you naively think it is..

They can and do say anything to black students "your application was late" "it got lost" "We don’t like your essay"............. ANYTHING.

Our black ass is not getting in - No matter what.

They reserve over 60% of seats for white students at most schools, graduate and undergraduate and then about 10-20% for asians and Indians.

If your lame cry baby ass can't wiggle in one of those spots, that's your own fault.

We are taking no one's spots trust me.

You have a legacy and being a legacy only works if you have a trust fund and your parents have been donating a good % of their annual salary to the school or your dad holds political office or your parents are fortune 500 CEOs, COOs, CFOs or CAOs. Anyone else, it's still a crap shot.

It might get your resume an extra 5 second glance but if they see average jobs and medium income zip-code on your application, you can forget about it.

Blaming the handful of black people that get in is ridiculous. More Black Americans are becoming doctors (despite the obstacles set for black people) and non-blacks hate to see a black person who is superior to them in anything and become bitter and jealous.

One of the sad things about this is that India, as a nation, has a long history of color bias with the darker "Dravidian" generally being the lower class. They have their own system of affirmative action called "reservations". They should no full well how colorism plays out.....yet many come to America and caste aspersion upon black people. Surprisingly it often comes from darker skinned Indians.