With gun violence down, is America arming against an imagined threat?

[Spoonman]

Irrelevant. Much like your opinion on America's right to bear arms.

That's really an open minded approach, and a sure way to solve America's problems.

It's better that lying, as you have done.

Spesking of open-mindedness, what relevance do you belive the fact gun-related homicide involves ~0.003% of the guns inthe US has to the issue?

actually that is .00003%

 

[Spoonman]

34 million people in Canada - Constitutional Monarch
64 million people in the UK - Constitutional Monarch
314 million people in the USA - Constitutional Republic

That is why the statistics we use here are largely PER CAPITA, genius.

the fact is gun violence rates in the UK or Canada have not dropped any faster with their strict gun laws than they have in the USA with an ever increasing amount of guns and the removal of an assault weapons ban

 

[Spoonman]

Rabbi -

Because when you did back up the claim (and it is obviously true) he would a) demean the source, b) deflect to something unrelated, c) wimp out and never be heard from until he posted the same nonsense elsewhere

Please take a look at the reports, and get back to us when you have read and understood them.

I already explained earlier that this is not about causation. Please read back through the thread if you need to confirm that. It is about enabling suicide.

enabling my ass. if you ar going to kill yourself you are going to kill yourself.

 

[Spoonman]

What's wrong with enabling suicide? Liberals are always fighting for the right to die.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with suicide, but any serious discussion about guns needs to take into consideration that more guns in society does mean more suicides.

Bullshit. you really are a lying spin doctor turd.

Suicides per 100,000 people per year[1] Rank Country Male Female Average Year
1 Greenland[2][3] (more info) 133.6 79.2 108.1 2010[4]
2 South Korea[5] (more info) 31.7 2011
3 Lithuania[6] (more info) 54.6 11.6 31.6 2011
4 Guyana (more info) 26.4 2006
5 Kazakhstan (more info) 25.6 2008
6 Belarus[7][8] 22.9 2011
7 China[9] (more info) 22.23 2011
8 Slovenia[10] 34.6 9.4 21.8 2011
9 Hungary[11] 21.7 2009
10 Japan (more info)[12] 21.7 2012
11 Sri Lanka[13](more info) 21.6 1996
12 Ukraine (more info) 21.2 2009
13 Russia[14] (more info) 20.2 2012
14 Croatia[15] 19.7 2002
15 Serbia and Montenegro 19.5 2006
16 Latvia 18.2 2010 [16]
17 Moldova 17.4 2008
18 Belgium[note 1][11][note 2] 17[17] 2009
19 Finland[18] 16.8 2010
20 Uruguay 15.8 2004
21 South Africa[19] 15.4 2005
22 Poland 15.4 2010
23 Estonia 14.8 2010 [20]
24 France (more info) 14.7 2010 [21]
25 Suriname 14.4 2005
26 Bosnia and Herzegovina[22] 13.3 2011
27 New Zealand[23] 13.2 2008
28 Austria 12.8 2009
29 Czech Republic 12.8 2010
30 Cuba 12.3 2008
31 Bulgaria 12.3 2008
32 Romania 12.0 2009
33 United States[24] (more info) 19.5 5.5 12.0 2009
34 Sweden 11.9 2009
35 Norway 11.9 2011
36 Ireland[25] 11.4 2011
37 United Kingdom (more info) 23 11.8 2011[26]
38 Portugal[11] 11.5 2011[27]
39 Canada (more info) 17.9 5.3 11.5 2009[28]
40 Denmark 16.6 6.2 11.3 2010[29]
41 Iceland[30] 11.3 2009
42 Chile 11.2 2007
43 Switzerland 11.1 2007
44 Trinidad and Tobago 10.7 2006
45 India (more info) 10.5 2009
46 Slovakia[11] 17.4 2.8 9.9 2011
47 Germany[11] 9.9 2009
48 Australia[31] 14.9 4.4 9.7 2009
49 Kyrgyzstan 8.8 2009
50 Turkmenistan 13.8 3.5 8.6 1998

 

[M14 Shooter]

That's really an open minded approach, and a sure way to solve America's problems.

It's better that lying, as you have done.

Spesking of open-mindedness, what relevance do you belive the fact gun-related homicide involves ~0.003% of the guns inthe US has to the issue?

actually that is .00003%

The raw number is .00003. x100 for %

 

[Spoonman]

It's the same level of "ok" as vehicular homicides.

Does the US experience 10 times as many road deaths per capita than any other western country?

No, it doesn't.

So then it is not the same, is it?

the usa has 12.3 deaths per 100,000 the UK 3.5. So it looks like once again, you are wrong

 

[The Rabbi]

And saigon has left the room.

 

[HUGGY]

What's wrong with enabling suicide? Liberals are always fighting for the right to die.

I didn't say there was anything wrong with suicide, but any serious discussion about guns needs to take into consideration that more guns in society does mean more suicides.

Bullshit. you really are a lying spin doctor turd.

Suicides per 100,000 people per year[1] Rank Country Male Female Average Year
1 Greenland[2][3] (more info) 133.6 79.2 108.1 2010[4]
2 South Korea[5] (more info) 31.7 2011
3 Lithuania[6] (more info) 54.6 11.6 31.6 2011
4 Guyana (more info) 26.4 2006
5 Kazakhstan (more info) 25.6 2008
6 Belarus[7][8] 22.9 2011
7 China[9] (more info) 22.23 2011
8 Slovenia[10] 34.6 9.4 21.8 2011
9 Hungary[11] 21.7 2009
10 Japan (more info)[12] 21.7 2012
11 Sri Lanka[13](more info) 21.6 1996
12 Ukraine (more info) 21.2 2009
13 Russia[14] (more info) 20.2 2012
14 Croatia[15] 19.7 2002
15 Serbia and Montenegro 19.5 2006
16 Latvia 18.2 2010 [16]
17 Moldova 17.4 2008
18 Belgium[note 1][11][note 2] 17[17] 2009
19 Finland[18] 16.8 2010
20 Uruguay 15.8 2004
21 South Africa[19] 15.4 2005
22 Poland 15.4 2010
23 Estonia 14.8 2010 [20]
24 France (more info) 14.7 2010 [21]
25 Suriname 14.4 2005
26 Bosnia and Herzegovina[22] 13.3 2011
27 New Zealand[23] 13.2 2008
28 Austria 12.8 2009
29 Czech Republic 12.8 2010
30 Cuba 12.3 2008
31 Bulgaria 12.3 2008
32 Romania 12.0 2009
33 United States[24] (more info) 19.5 5.5 12.0 2009
34 Sweden 11.9 2009
35 Norway 11.9 2011
36 Ireland[25] 11.4 2011
37 United Kingdom (more info) 23 11.8 2011[26]
38 Portugal[11] 11.5 2011[27]
39 Canada (more info) 17.9 5.3 11.5 2009[28]
40 Denmark 16.6 6.2 11.3 2010[29]
41 Iceland[30] 11.3 2009
42 Chile 11.2 2007
43 Switzerland 11.1 2007
44 Trinidad and Tobago 10.7 2006
45 India (more info) 10.5 2009
46 Slovakia[11] 17.4 2.8 9.9 2011
47 Germany[11] 9.9 2009
48 Australia[31] 14.9 4.4 9.7 2009
49 Kyrgyzstan 8.8 2009
50 Turkmenistan 13.8 3.5 8.6 1998

I suspect all those Japonese suicides are a bit messy with the Hari Kari and everything.

 

[Spoonman]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with suicide, but any serious discussion about guns needs to take into consideration that more guns in society does mean more suicides.

Bullshit. you really are a lying spin doctor turd.

Suicides per 100,000 people per year[1] Rank Country Male Female Average Year
1 Greenland[2][3] (more info) 133.6 79.2 108.1 2010[4]
2 South Korea[5] (more info) 31.7 2011
3 Lithuania[6] (more info) 54.6 11.6 31.6 2011
4 Guyana (more info) 26.4 2006
5 Kazakhstan (more info) 25.6 2008
6 Belarus[7][8] 22.9 2011
7 China[9] (more info) 22.23 2011
8 Slovenia[10] 34.6 9.4 21.8 2011
9 Hungary[11] 21.7 2009
10 Japan (more info)[12] 21.7 2012
11 Sri Lanka[13](more info) 21.6 1996
12 Ukraine (more info) 21.2 2009
13 Russia[14] (more info) 20.2 2012
14 Croatia[15] 19.7 2002
15 Serbia and Montenegro 19.5 2006
16 Latvia 18.2 2010 [16]
17 Moldova 17.4 2008
18 Belgium[note 1][11][note 2] 17[17] 2009
19 Finland[18] 16.8 2010
20 Uruguay 15.8 2004
21 South Africa[19] 15.4 2005
22 Poland 15.4 2010
23 Estonia 14.8 2010 [20]
24 France (more info) 14.7 2010 [21]
25 Suriname 14.4 2005
26 Bosnia and Herzegovina[22] 13.3 2011
27 New Zealand[23] 13.2 2008
28 Austria 12.8 2009
29 Czech Republic 12.8 2010
30 Cuba 12.3 2008
31 Bulgaria 12.3 2008
32 Romania 12.0 2009
33 United States[24] (more info) 19.5 5.5 12.0 2009
34 Sweden 11.9 2009
35 Norway 11.9 2011
36 Ireland[25] 11.4 2011
37 United Kingdom (more info) 23 11.8 2011[26]
38 Portugal[11] 11.5 2011[27]
39 Canada (more info) 17.9 5.3 11.5 2009[28]
40 Denmark 16.6 6.2 11.3 2010[29]
41 Iceland[30] 11.3 2009
42 Chile 11.2 2007
43 Switzerland 11.1 2007
44 Trinidad and Tobago 10.7 2006
45 India (more info) 10.5 2009
46 Slovakia[11] 17.4 2.8 9.9 2011
47 Germany[11] 9.9 2009
48 Australia[31] 14.9 4.4 9.7 2009
49 Kyrgyzstan 8.8 2009
50 Turkmenistan 13.8 3.5 8.6 1998

I suspect all those Japonese suicides are a bit messy with the Hari Kari and everything.

i guess it's better than the chinese jumping off the roof of their factories

 

[Politico]

You hate guns we get it!

 

[RandallFlagg]

You hate guns we get it!

Yeah, these people literally amaze me. They go on and on, statistic after statistic, arguing with anyone (to include Jesus Christ) to "prove their case. It gets sickening. They HATE GUNS. We get it.

My answer? DON'T BUY GUNS!!!!

But if they think that their self-sanctimonious BS is going to do anything to change ANY gun owners mind - then they are seriously mentally Ill.

Stupid, stupid liberals.

 

[Spoonman]

You hate guns we get it!

Yeah, these people literally amaze me. They go on and on, statistic after statistic, arguing with anyone (to include Jesus Christ) to "prove their case. It gets sickening. They HATE GUNS. We get it.

My answer? DON'T BUY GUNS!!!!

But if they think that their self-sanctimonious BS is going to do anything to change ANY gun owners mind - then they are seriously mentally Ill.

Stupid, stupid liberals.

i know, their other arguments are

Don't like gays? don't be gay

Don't like abortions? don't have one.

Hypocrites. libs are the biggest hypocrites going

 

[legaleagle_45]

M14 and Take a Step Back -

I have provided the source and link. If you have a problem with the figure - take it up with the source.

Personally, I think 12,663 homicides compared to 554 in Canada and 41 in the UK is a tragedy and a damning indictment of the attitudes in the US towards civil rights, freedom and human life, but if you think it's a great number, then go with that.

Your link claims that the UK had almost 20 times the number of intentional homicides which you claim (722)?

Do you also realize that modern gun control in the UK began in 1920 when the homicide rate averaged 0.70 per 100,000. It now is at 1.20 per 100,000.

 

[jon_berzerk]

M14 and Take a Step Back -

I have provided the source and link. If you have a problem with the figure - take it up with the source.

Personally, I think 12,663 homicides compared to 554 in Canada and 41 in the UK is a tragedy and a damning indictment of the attitudes in the US towards civil rights, freedom and human life, but if you think it's a great number, then go with that.

Your link claims that the UK had almost 20 times the number of intentional homicides which you claim (722)?

Do you also realize that modern gun control in the UK began in 1920 when the homicide rate averaged 0.70 per 100,000. It now is at 1.20 per 100,000.

so what you are saying

is that the homicide rate has gone up

not down since gun control was instituted in the UK

imagine that

 

[jon_berzerk]

What's wrong with enabling suicide? Liberals are always fighting for the right to die.

good point

arnt they all supportive of assisted suicide

--LOL

 

[legaleagle_45]

I didn't say there was anything wrong with suicide, but any serious discussion about guns needs to take into consideration that more guns in society does mean more suicides.

Not according to the World Health Organization:

“[R]emoving an easy and favored method of suicide was not likely to affect substantially the overall suicide rate because other methods would be chosen.”

World Health Organization, Changing Patterns in Suicide Behavior

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

No honest person would use the UK or Canada as a point of comparison to the USA, but there you are. Doing just that.

Why on earth not?

Why not compare like with like?

 

[Saigon]

Rabbi completely nailed it on this thread, and I hope everyone keeps his comments in mind while they read comments like those of Take A Step Back, Jon and Spoonman.

Rabb predicted:

Because when you did back up the claim (and it is obviously true) he would a) demean the source, b) deflect to something unrelated, c) wimp out and never be heard from until he posted the same nonsense elsewhere.

There is no persuading the incomprehending.

and the proof from Randall Flagg -

Yeah, these people literally amaze me. They go on and on, statistic after statistic, arguing with anyone (to include Jesus Christ) to "prove their case. It gets sickening. They HATE GUNS. We get it.

Isn't it interesting that Randall suggests the people presenting facts are stupid - but those ignoring the facts presumably are not!

 

[Saigon]

M14 and Take a Step Back -

I have provided the source and link. If you have a problem with the figure - take it up with the source.

Personally, I think 12,663 homicides compared to 554 in Canada and 41 in the UK is a tragedy and a damning indictment of the attitudes in the US towards civil rights, freedom and human life, but if you think it's a great number, then go with that.

Your link claims that the UK had almost 20 times the number of intentional homicides which you claim (722)?

Do you also realize that modern gun control in the UK began in 1920 when the homicide rate averaged 0.70 per 100,000. It now is at 1.20 per 100,000.

This is a literacy issue, so you may need to re-read the material.

There were 41 gun-related homicides in the UK - not 41 homicides total.

And yes, the murder rate in the UK is now at its lowest point since 1983, well down on recent years.

 

[Unkotare]

Rabbi -

No honest person is going to use Mexico as a valid point of comparison for the US.

It seems that as you predicted, you would respond to facts with diversions!

No honest person would use the UK or Canada as a point of comparison to the USA, but there you are. Doing just that.

Why on earth not?

Why not compare like with like?

They are not enough alike for valid comparison, ääliö.