Wisconsin Official Instructs Staff Not To Mention Free IDs For Voting

[grunt11b]

Good find jose


the republican party just keep outing itself as the anti democracy party

Great find! I can't believe those bastards aren't out there advertising. Requiring people to go in and ask for their free ID.

This will be one of the countless bullshit excuses pointed to in 2012 while the left screams the racist Tea Party stole the election form Obama and incites riots nation wide.

Its not the tea party doing it.

its the corporate "people" who are supporting this. The Koch Bros , the ones who OWN the tea party and use them like 2 dollar whores to get what they want from this country

So the equivalent would be this:
Koch Brothers = Democrat Party
Tea Party = Welfare Recipients/Minorities/illegal immigrants.
Because the Democrat party whores out illegals,minorities and welfare recipients every election year, they even bus them to the polls because the people really dont care enough to take themselves to vote for Democrats on their own.

 

[grunt11b]

Everything must be free for the useless, how else do we expect them to better themselves! lol

And there you have it.

poor people are useless to the right.

They dont want them eating or voting.

The ones that are poor by choice are pretty useless, as a matter of fact lets just be honest, they ARE useless and should not be given a free ride. The poor that are poor not by their own choice "Handicapped, disabled etc" we are more than willing to help.
I felt I needed to clarify that, because we know how you love class warfare and try and manipulate the facts. Truth really doesn't matter to you does it? Only when it's convenient.

 

[Truthmatters]

grunt you have ANY facts to back those lies?

I have years of court documents to prove the republican party has tried to keep legal American voters from voting for decades.

 

[grunt11b]

This is hardly surprising. It's hard for me to imagine an objective, informed individual who would fail to come to the conclusion that these types of laws are motivated in part by a desire to discourage likely Democratic voters from voting. I expect that in Wisconsin at least the laws will be reversed eventually.

If the left would stop catering to the lazy maybe majority of their constituents could afford to get the Identification. I really dont see this as being any bigger of a deal than acorns voter fraud. At least this is legal.
Heck, Acorn even had the dallas cowboy offensive line registered to vote in arizona in 2008. And the left was silent on that one wasn't you?

 

[Truthmatters]

GOP Memo Admits Plan Could 'Keep Black Vote Down' - Los Angeles Times

 

[Truthmatters]

In 5-Year Effort, Scant Evidence of Voter Fraud - New York Times

 

[Seawytch]

I've worked at an election office for five years now. There have been instances of people claiming that someone else signed in their place on a precinct roster. In every instance it was simply a case of someone having signed on the wrong line. (Same thing in the instances of "dead people voting".

In California, when someone registers to vote, they provide their CA DL number or the last four digits of their SSN on their form. They are then verified through a statewide database. If their identity does not clear the database or they did not provide their ID, the individual is then "flagged" to show ID at the polls.

Title 2, California Code of Regulations, Section 20107(d)(1) defines “photo
identification” as a document prepared by a third party in the ordinary course of
business that includes a photograph and name of the individual presenting it, including
a:

A. driver’s license or identification card of any state;
B. passport;
C. employee identification card;
D. identification card provided by a commercial establishment;
E. credit or debit card;
F. military identification card;
G. student identification card;
H. health club identification card;
I. insurance plan identification card.​

Title 2, California Code of Regulations, Section 20107(d)(2) lists “Other Documents” that
satisfy the proof of identity requirement. These other documents will be sufficient if the
document includes the name and address of the individual presenting it, and is dated
since the date of the last general election, unless the document is intended to be of a
permanent nature such as a pardon or discharge. Other documents include a:

A. utility bill;
B. bank statement;
C. government check;
D. government paycheck;
E. document issued by a governmental agency;
F. sample ballot issued by a governmental agency;
G. voter notification card issued by a governmental agency;
H. public housing identification card issued by a governmental agency;
I. lease or rental statement or agreement issued by a governmental agency;
J. student identification card issued by a governmental agency;
K. tuition statement or bill issued by a governmental agency;
L. insurance plan card issued by a governmental agency;
M. discharge certificate, pardon, or other official document issued to the voter
in connection with the resolution of a criminal case, indictment, sentence,
or other matter;
public transportation authority senior citizen discount card issued by a
governmental agency;
O. identification document issued by governmental disability agencies;
P. identification document issued by government homeless shelters and
other temporary or transitional facilities;
Q. drug prescription issued by a government doctor or other governmental
health care provider;
R. property tax statement issued by a governmental agency;
S. vehicle registration or certificate of ownership issued by a governmental
agency.​

NOTE: A VOTER CAN MEET THE PROOF OF IDENTITY REQUIREMENT BY
PRESENTING EITHER A CURRENT AND VALID PHOTO IDENTIFICATION OR
OTHER ACCEPTABLE DOCUMENT, AS SET FORTH ABOVE. ALSO, THE PROOF
OF IDENTITY REQUIREMENT ONLY APPLIES TO FEDERAL ELECTIONS.
THEREFORE, ALL REGISTRANTS SHALL BE PERMITTED TO VOTE A REGULAR
BALLOT IN ALL NON-FEDERAL ELECTIONS WITHOUT SHOWING ID.​

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/hava/compliance_manual/chpt7_voter_identification_requirements_final.pdf

 

[Wry Catcher]

A new twist in the WI voter ID controversy has some lawmakers and state officials crying foul. Ids are free as part of the law, but an internal memo surfaced which instructs DMV employees not to offer free IDs unless customers ask for them. Otherwise, the IDs cost $28. Critics say the $28 fee amounts to a poll tax which will discourage low-income voters from registering for an ID. Recently, a DMV employee was fired for blasting out an email encouraging his coworkers to ignore the memo and instruct all customers that the IDs are free.

(Reuters) - A Wisconsin official has discouraged state workers from volunteering information about free IDs available under a controversial voter identification law that critics complain is designed to suppress votes, a memo leaked on Wednesday showed.

The memo, provided to the press by Democratic State Senator Jon Erpenbach, was likely to fan concerns among critics of the Republican-backed law that it aimed to suppress votes of thousands of otherwise eligible Wisconsin voters.

In the memo, a top aide in the state transportation department told staffers in the motor vehicle department, which is responsible for issuing the free IDs, to "refrain from offering" them to customers who do not specifically ask for them.

"Questions on what kind of ID is needed for voting," the aide, Steven Krieser, wrote in the July 1 memo, "should be directed to the Government Accountability Board."

The voter ID law was part of a broader conservative program pushed through Wisconsin's Republican-controlled legislature earlier this year by Governor Scott Walker, who took office in January.

That program, which has divided the state along partisan lines and led to a record number of recall elections, has also included curbs on the collective bargaining rights of public workers, deep budget cuts and an easing of restrictions on the carrying of concealed weapons.

Krieser, who confirmed the authenticity of the memo, said he was simply trying to make sure DMV employees honored the intent of lawmakers who passed the law, which does not obligate DMV workers to tell applicants they are entitled to a free ID if they plan to use it to vote.

"The DMV is applying the voter ID law that the legislature provided to it," Krieser told Reuters.

"It says the customer has to request it. So we've taken the strict reading of the statute and that's how we've implemented it. That's all that the memo was getting at."

RECORDS REQUEST

Scot Ross, the head of One Wisconsin Now, a group opposed to the voter ID law, called the memo "a smoking gun" that proved the measure was designed to disenfranchise the poor, students and minorities, who are less likely to have state-issued identification and more likely to vote for Democrats.

Ross said his group would file an open records request with the Wisconsin Department of Transportation to obtain "all communications and e-mails related to the issuance of state identification cards for the purposes of voting under the state's voter identification bill."

Advocates of voter ID laws, which have also been passed this year in Texas, Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee and Rhode Island, say the rules are needed to combat voter fraud.

Opponents say evidence of widespread fraud is nonexistent. The Advancement Project, a national civil rights legal group, has called the laws "the largest legislative effort to scale back voting rights in a century."

Because voters who do not assert that they are seeking the free ID will be charged a $28 fee for the document, critics see the law as illegal because it may disenfranchise voters who don't pay.

Last week, a top official with the Wisconsin state bar asked the U.S. Department of Justice to review the law, which was passed by the state legislature and signed into law in May.

Wisconsin official told DMV not to push free voter ID cards | Reuters

And? you go in and ask for your free ID and get one.

THE OUTRAGE available upon request.

Boo!

 

[J.E.D]

Asshats think there is no cost in providing these I.D.'s, like they just fall from the sky.

****, we need free toilet paper too. How about free Metro Cards and Cell Phones including air time. It should all be free right? Why not free gasoline? Free utilities? Or we can all just grow up.

You don't pay to vote in the USA. If WI is going to require people to have a state ID in order to vote, then they must provide those IDs at no charge. The legislators who crafted the law know this, which is why they are free.

The controversy here is not really about the requirement to have an ID, it's that DMV employees are being told not to mention the free IDs unless somebody asks. That will inevitably lead to some uninformed citizens walking out of the DMV without proper ID to vote. There is no reason that DMV employees should not be able to mention the free IDs.

 

[Truthmatters]

They dont want the facts they want to win elections however that has to be done.

 

[J.E.D]

why are you against proving you are who you say you are before you vote !! and do you believe that their is massive voter fraud committed by the left??

Thanks for your input, retarded person.

RETARDED PERSON !!!!! Bwaaa haaaa haaaa !! Why do you have a gay black man for an avatar ?? You have the dumbest looking avatar on this message board !! Oh you can say something derogatory about my avatar if you like ,but at least It's not some stupid simian on the down low ****** like yours is !!............I mean seriously LOOK AT THAT ******* HAT!!!! .............Bwaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaa

Wow, nice racism. You must be very proud of yourself.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The actual text of the Bill is clearly contradictory, and clarification is needed as to what constitutes ‘ongoing outreach’ and ‘assistance in obtaining’ an ID for voting:

The bill also directs the Government Accountability Board, in conjunction with
the first regularly scheduled primary and election at which the voter identification
requirements created by the bill initially apply, to conduct a public informational
campaign for the purpose of informing prospective voters of the voter identification
requirements created by the bill. In addition, the bill directs the board to conduct
an ongoing outreach effort to identify and contact groups of electors who may need
assistance in obtaining or renewing licenses or identification cards for voting
purposes and to provide assistance in obtaining or renewing those licenses or
identification cards.

The outreach and assistance requirement says noting about withholding information that the ID can be obtained free of charge and inclusion of that information would certainly be part of a comprehensive outreach and assistance effort.

The next paragraph then contains the conflicting stipulation:

The bill also permits an elector who is eligible to obtain a Wisconsin
identification card to obtain the card from DOT free of charge, if the elector
specifically requests not to be charged.

If the Bill instructs the Government Accountability Board to initiate an education campaign and an ongoing outreach program to ensure all potential voters are able to obtain an ID, it makes little sense in this context that information with regard to an ID being obtained free of charge should be withheld.

At the very least the conflicting requirements of the Bill warrant clarification with regard to the meaning and intent of the ongoing outreach and education provision of the measure, as the memo in question clearly does not address that issue.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/SB-6.pdf

 

[WorldWatcher]

If the Bill instructs the Government Accountability Board to initiate an education campaign and an ongoing outreach program to ensure all potential voters are able to obtain an ID, it makes little sense in this context that information with regard to an ID being obtained free of charge should be withheld.

No information is "withheld".

If the State ID is for voting purposes it is free, if the State ID is for purposes of proving age for being able to buy alcohol, cash checks, travel on airlines, etc. the ID costs $28.

Signs at the DOT show that the cost is $28 for a State ID and that for Voting it is Free. The DOT website clearly indicates there is a cost for State ID for other purposes but if you are obtaining one for the purpose of voting it is free.

If the customer asks the clerk at the DOT the difference, then the clerk will clarify with no problems. No information is withheld.


>>>>

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The actual text of the Bill is clearly contradictory, and clarification is needed as to what constitutes ‘ongoing outreach’ and ‘assistance in obtaining’ an ID for voting:

The bill also directs the Government Accountability Board, in conjunction with
the first regularly scheduled primary and election at which the voter identification
requirements created by the bill initially apply, to conduct a public informational
campaign for the purpose of informing prospective voters of the voter identification
requirements created by the bill. In addition, the bill directs the board to conduct
an ongoing outreach effort to identify and contact groups of electors who may need
assistance in obtaining or renewing licenses or identification cards for voting
purposes and to provide assistance in obtaining or renewing those licenses or
identification cards.

The outreach and assistance requirement says noting about withholding information that the ID can be obtained free of charge and inclusion of that information would certainly be part of a comprehensive outreach and assistance effort.

The next paragraph then contains the conflicting stipulation:

The bill also permits an elector who is eligible to obtain a Wisconsin
identification card to obtain the card from DOT free of charge, if the elector
specifically requests not to be charged.

If the Bill instructs the Government Accountability Board to initiate an education campaign and an ongoing outreach program to ensure all potential voters are able to obtain an ID, it makes little sense in this context that information with regard to an ID being obtained free of charge should be withheld.

At the very least the conflicting requirements of the Bill warrant clarification with regard to the meaning and intent of the ongoing outreach and education provision of the measure, as the memo in question clearly does not address that issue.

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/data/SB-6.pdf

FYI, a bill is something that has not passed, a law is something that has passed and is in effect. We are talking about a law, not a bill. No one on the planet has standing to sue to stop a bill.

Now that I have educated you on basic ;aw, what conflicting requirements?

The first part of the law you quoted is the responsibility of the government to make sure everyone learns about the free ID program. The second part of the law states that an individual, if he wants a free ID, does not have to wait until the program is announced to get one. These two provisions of the law conflict no more than a law that requires the state to set up polling places for elections, but allows individuals to request mail in ballots from the county clerk.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MT3CihStFQ]Forrest Gump stupid is - YouTube[/ame]

 

[freedombecki]

Links to voter fraud please...come on, you can do it.

Hack.

Well, believe it or not, Zona, I'm an American citizen, and a few years ago, I posted on a board hosted by Time, Inc. One evening I ran into a liberal gabfest, and each was bragging how in the preceding election they had voted between 20 and 30 times apiece in their various precincts. One poster said he was a precinct chairperson and had personally voted 30 times under different aliases. The next morning I went back to print out what they said, but they had deleted the entire conversation.

It left the distinct impression on me that a lot of voter fraud was going on in their sundry states. Those things were said 12 - 15 years ago. Time, Inc. closed their Pathfinder Board down a couple of years later. I'm sure there is no way to link it, and it wouldn't matter because of the amount of deletions that were made on a constant basis to prevent the editors from knowing what they were up to.

But I know. And in 2008, there were upward of 30 lawsuits against precincts which had egregious voter anomalies coming from none other than ACORN.

Some of those voter irregularities and lawsuits are at this linked location. Another RICO lawsuit is discussed at this linked location.

Plaintiffs Jennifer Miller of Mason, Ohio and Kimberly Grant of Loveland, allege that ACORN’s actions deprive them of the right to participate in an honest and effective elections process. They allege fraudulent voter registrations submitted by ACORN dilute the votes of legally registered voters.
​

Have a thoughtful evening. It's too bad some people think they're so important that they can vote 30 times because someone gave them a position of trust that is abused. They're out there. They brag about it. Then they try to conceal it from other people, because they know it's not only wrongful to other voters, it is a crime as well, and they are criminals, undeserving of anybody's trust.

well, it's 2011, do you know if any of these 30 lawsuits won theirr cases?

you misunderstand what happened with acorn.....none of the mickey mouses or donald ducks or the thousands across our country being reported that Acorn members got to fraudulently register to vote, made it through the State's verification and vetting process, so none of them were ever legally processed by the States....which means NONE OF THEM were ever registered by the state so none of them ever got to cast a vote!

Acorn employees were charged with voter registration fraud, NOT voter fraud.

I doubt any of the lawsuits claiming supposed disenfranchisement through dilution of their votes, won their cases because the state and acorn itself, caught the registration fraud by the acorn workers, before the registrants were processed.

I fail to see the difference between inciting voter fraud and committing voter fraud. They are one and the same on steroids. A number of the cases were decided with a guilty plea on part of the accused. I provided you links. You ignored where they went with this, so in my best play-it-again-sam mode here ya are:

FBI investigation notes reveal ACORN was working for the Democratic Party and told employees not to talk to the FBI, to cause confusion on Election Day and to go "poverty pimpin'" for votes.

Judicial Watch, a corruption-fighting legal group, obtained the notes related to the 2007 investigation and arrest of eight St. Louis, Mo., ACORN workers for violating election laws and committing voter fraud.

'Poverty pimpin,' fraud and work for Democratic Party

The FBI​ investigators interviewed ACORN canvassers working with Project Vote, an ACORN affiliate. Among the documents obtained by Judicial Watch were handwritten notes by FBI officials outlining the group's fraudulent activities. The following are some highlights from the FBI notes:

ACORN "told employees not to talk to the FBI," saying the FBI is "trying to intimidate you." Staff members were restricted on what they were allowed to say to the FBI.

ACORN accepted "fraudulent cards" "to cause confusion on Election Day to keep polls open longer," "to allow people who can't vote to vote" and "to allow voters to vote multiple times."

"Project Vote will pay them whether cards fake or not – whatever they had to do to get the cards was attitude."

Learn what dangers face America's way of choosing its leaders, get "STEALING THE NEXT ELECTION: From amnesty to universal registration, Obama's strategy for maintaining power"

The FBI investigators noted that workers were constantly threatened.

The FBI noted that ACORN had been "poverty pimpin.'"

The notes stated that ACORN headquarters was "working for the Democratic Party."

Project Vote "pays ACORN $6 per card" and said "you treat the cards like (cash)$."

Some registrant names were collected from the phone book and workers made up the rest.

Canvassers were often homeless, volatile, drug users, drunks, etc.

"Anyone who was against PV (Project Vote) or ACORN's goals was 'right wing.'"

Canvasser "thought if she used a completely fake name it would be less like ID theft." She said, "Yeah, it's against the law, I know," but "the fake cards would get her paid."

Judicial Watch posted the uncovered FBI documents on its website.

The FBI documents also include arrest warrants, criminal case cover sheets and court documents. Eight ACORN workers pleaded guilty to registration fraud just months before the 2008 election.

As WND reported, Judicial Watch also obtained another set of FBI documents in March 2010 detailing alleged ACORN corruption and voter registration fraud in Connecticut – but the Obama administration shut down the FBI and Department of Justice investigations in March 2009. While the administration noted ACORN had engaged in "questionable hiring and training practices," it said the group broke no laws.

But the FBI documents showed complaints filed in October 2008 by Lucy Corelli and Joseph Borges, Republican registrars of voters in Stamford and Bridgeport, Conn., respectively, during the 2008 election year.

Corelli reported that on Aug. 1, 2008, her office accessed 1,200 ACORN voter-registration cards from the secretary of state's office – of which, 300 cards were rejected due to "duplicates, underage, illegible and invalid addresses." She said the invalid cards "put a tremendous strain on our office staff and caused endless work hours at taxpayers' expense." Judicial Watch reported Corelli claimed the additional work caused by ACORN corruption cost $20,000.

According to the documents, Borges stated, "The organization ACORN during the summer of 2008 conducted a registration drive which has produced over 100 rejections due to incomplete forms and individuals who are not citizens. …"

Borges reported ACORN even registered a 7-year-old child to vote by using a forged signature and fake birth certificate claiming she was 27 years old.

More to this article here

Judicial Watch version here

 

[freedombecki]

The trouble with voter fraud crimes is that they go for the throat of free elections, and for the very few crimes of these crimes that get noticed and then reported, that's the tip of the iceberg portion that you can see above water. What goes beneath is likely the same crime repeated millions of times.

It's hidded by oaths of silence, just like the above case where the ACORN supervisors told their workers to NOT TALK TO THE FBI, which is something a supervisor deserves to go to jail for 30 nears, not pay a little fine and be welcomed back to work the next day.

Furthermore, after Congress did take steps to disband ACORN, the Democrat Party formed 30 different organizations to replace the ACORN with in so many hidden parts of various bills for their own benefit, not the benefit of the people of the United States.

Who watches Congress?

Well, who can, considering the latest fad is to publish thousands upon thousands of pages Nancy Pelosi style, deliver it to the Congress, then have President Obama jump up and down on the bully pulpit, telling America what bad people the Congress is for not passing everything he shoves out there.

That's the worst kind of leadership in the world--blindsiding the country and Congress with so much paperwork it hamstrings their efforts to balance the budget, and it has got to stop, America.

Yet here we are on a public forum, hearing after getting linked to some of the problem that the problem doesn't exist. For goodness sakes. Voter fraud exists and it is on steroids because Democrats in Congress crammed its funding down America's throats in so many white papers masquerading as other "bills".

 

[Conservative]

grunt you have ANY facts to back those lies?

I have years of court documents to prove the republican party has tried to keep legal American voters from voting for decades.

you never do.

your documents all stem from a single case, dip shit...as has been proven to you over and over. Go peddle you horse shit someplace else.

 

[Conservative]

You don't pay to vote in the USA. If WI is going to require people to have a state ID in order to vote, then they must provide those IDs at no charge. The legislators who crafted the law know this, which is why they are free.

The controversy here is not really about the requirement to have an ID, it's that DMV employees are being told not to mention the free IDs unless somebody asks. That will inevitably lead to some uninformed citizens walking out of the DMV without proper ID to vote. There is no reason that DMV employees should not be able to mention the free IDs.

big ******* deal. There are SIGNS posted. Do they have to point at the signs? Read them for/to the people?

Get real, ass hat.

 

[Conservative]

If the Bill instructs the Government Accountability Board to initiate an education campaign and an ongoing outreach program to ensure all potential voters are able to obtain an ID, it makes little sense in this context that information with regard to an ID being obtained free of charge should be withheld.

No information is "withheld".

If the State ID is for voting purposes it is free, if the State ID is for purposes of proving age for being able to buy alcohol, cash checks, travel on airlines, etc. the ID costs $28.

Signs at the DOT show that the cost is $28 for a State ID and that for Voting it is Free. The DOT website clearly indicates there is a cost for State ID for other purposes but if you are obtaining one for the purpose of voting it is free.

If the customer asks the clerk at the DOT the difference, then the clerk will clarify with no problems. No information is withheld.


>>>>

But the poor peoples is too dumm to reed the sighens. Tehy nede the DMV workers to do it for themm.

 

[Conservative]

He then decides to show me who is boss, by going to my local polling place, telling them he is me, signing my name, and votes in my place. Since no ID is required in PA, and no one at the polling station knows him or me, done deal.

I go to vote later that day, and guess what? I apparently already voted! Now, MY real vote cannot be counted, as it appears to have already taken place.

You know what would prevent that from happening?

A good VOTER ID LAW... like the ones in various states, and the ones the SCOTUS already found constitutional and NOT a poll tax.

What stops you from speeding on the freeway?
Common sense, and a desire to arrive at my destination in a living manner.

Why don't we just put governors in all cars so they won't be allowed to go over the speed limit?
Seriously flawed analogy.

Voter fraud usually carries a stiff penalty...fines, jail time and disenfranchisement.

The SCOTUS ruling on Voter ID laws left it open to challenge...especially if the laws become too restrictive or there is evidence of voter disenfranchisement.
So far, hasn't happened. I posted a link to one SCOTUS decision. Read it.

If you are disenfranchising 10 voters for every one instance of voter fraud, is it worth it?
No one has been disenfranchised.

comments in BLUE above.