Winning The House Is Not A Consolation Prize. It's The Prize

[NightFox]

Neither the Clinton or Obama House was Gerrymandered to the degree where you have to win by ten percent of the vote just to break even

Yeah, and the republicans gerrymandered the fuck out of the states, and that's why they gained Senate seats, right Joy?

Actually, I have it on good authority that it was the Republicans colluding with the Russians to gerrymander the Country that's to blame, notice all those States shaped like the Kremlin? Think that's a coincidence?

 

[skews13]

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

Yes. Dems. Just focus on the house and leave the POTUS and Senate to the GOP. Do that for another 20 years, please.

GOP has 21 Senate seats to defend in 2020, and 2022.

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

 

[martybegan]

I heard today that during the Clinton years, he lost the House by 60 seats, and Obama by nearly 70?

And Trump only lost it by what, 25, 30?

Maybe I have those numbers wrong, but I think that liberal propaganda is really minimizing the position that the lack of coherent Democratic vision that is killing the DNC. . .

Just an observation. . .

Perhaps. What the Dems don’t realize is this though….

When there was a conflict between the Congress and the President, the President usually came out smelling like a rose after it was over. I wonder how it will go between Trump and the Dem controlled House. I’m completely unsure who carries public opinion if there is a stalemate.

It depends on how crazy the Dems get. If they try to pass reasonable legislation and get stymied by the Senate and Trump, Republicans look bad.

If they spend the next two years on endless investigations, and try to pass Democrat supported only bills involving gun control, amnesty, and restarting Obamacare, they will look bad.

 

[NightFox]

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

I've heard that one before … 20 years ago.

Personally I'm looking forward to the day when Human Beings will no longer be making any decisions about anything since collectively we're a total moron that can't be trusted with anything more complicated than what to have for breakfast.

"Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over." -- HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

Why use the word "white" as a qualifier? What point are you trying to make? If it is what I think, please make your racist comments loud and clear so white people will vote in unison like a minority block.

 

[danielpalos]

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

technology can save us. in California, tunneling technologies can create additional water storage capacity; it could be energy generation friendly whenever opportune.

 

[Oddball]

GOP has 21 Senate seats to defend in 2020, and 2022.

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

And a presidential election in 2020, in which (at this point) the incumbent is likely to be re-elected.....Prolly haven't heard of "coat tails" have you?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

"Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over." -- HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey

Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?

Dave, I really think I'm entitled to an answer to that question.

I know everything hasn't been quite right with me, but I can assure you now, very confidently, that it's going to be all right again.

 

[Richard-H]

I heard today that during the Clinton years, he lost the House by 60 seats, and Obama by nearly 70?

And Trump only lost it by what, 25, 30?

Maybe I have those numbers wrong, but I think that liberal propaganda is really minimizing the position that the lack of coherent Democratic vision that is killing the DNC. . .

Just an observation. . .

Perhaps. What the Dems don’t realize is this though….

When there was a conflict between the Congress and the President, the President usually came out smelling like a rose after it was over. I wonder how it will go between Trump and the Dem controlled House. I’m completely unsure who carries public opinion if there is a stalemate.

True. If the Dems can come up with something other than identity politics and how the white male patriarchy is bad, they might have a chance.

But the politics of hate don't seem to work well for Trump, so I doubt they will work well for the DNC.

Only a positive message of hope ever really resonates with the independents. It worked well for Obama, and that is the core of MAGA. This is what will draw them like honey. . . or jobs, growth, and a positive economy.

These parties need a plan and a way to implement it.

Platform? Yes
Plan? It would be nice but not necessary. I think the only way you’d signal to the other side that you are serious about bi partisanship on day 1 is to put a moderate from the other party on your ticket as VP and give her or him a real role in policy implementation. More on this later.

I listened to a podcast the other day called "The Hidden Duopoly". It was done by Freakonomics and it's founder Stephen J. Dubner. Google Freakonomics Radio if you want to hear it.

Part of me is like "duh"...it's not that hidden. But one of the conclusions they came up with was that the two major parties do not even try for the middle; they find easier vote-mining on the far ends of the spectrum. The middle--soft Dems and soft Repubs and true independents do not matter. If that is true, there is an opportunity for a true change agent.

Okay. Lets go back in time (harp music playing in the back) to June 7, 2008. It is the date Obama won the Democratic Nomination. McCain won on 9/4/2008. But unlike Obama, McCain had the thing sewn up long before that in March. Dubner contends that the parties don't care about them because there is no viable alternative..."Where are they going to go?" is how they put it. Now, lets say for the sake of argument that the running mate Joe Biden isn't picked at the time the nomination is sealed and McCain doesn't nominate Palin at the convention or toys with Lieberman prior to the convention. Once the nominations are in, they really cannot be changed so there is theoretically time between the nomination and election when someone who is a change agent can upset the system and nominate a prominent equal partner as running mate. It will take planning of course and a clear division of labor between the two people on the ticket on what they are going to try to accomplish.

There are two major things they can do to make it work.

Divide up appointments and national policy. Let the VP submit the names of Federal/SCOTUS judges and they and the top of the ticket hash out who will be picked for which judgships ahead of time. This is a big thing you can give to the other side in return for an easier go of it and the VP (who will be the presumptive nominee of their party when they are no longer are or going to be VPOTUS and will be in the position to cash in favors) helps you push through an agreeable agenda. Lets say minimum wage for example. Few conservatives continue to push the notion that a rise in the minimum wage is not necessary. Fewer still hold out the long debunked notion that it kills the economy. This is something that could be agreed upon if politics were not at play.

Divide by international/national priorities. And during times of international dischord (like we had in 08), let the VPOTUS essentially take the lead in military operations in return for the help on the domestic agenda.

----------------

Pipe dream? Maybe. But I think it will take a major shift at the top of the ticket before any serious bipartisanship will be possible.

"nominate a prominent equal partner as running mate"

That did not work very well for Lincoln, McKinley or Kennedy!

 

[Richard-H]

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

Yes. Dems. Just focus on the house and leave the POTUS and Senate to the GOP. Do that for another 20 years, please.

GOP has 21 Senate seats to defend in 2020, and 2022.

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

When that happens these guys are gonna take over:

 

[Frankeneinstein]

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

True the House is all that mattered. Other stuff would have been nice, but the future of the country rode on some part of the government being taken from the Trump cabal, and we got it.

You can soothe yourself anyway you wish, but the gop really wants no part of running the government so they are carefully taking a page from the lefts play book and stacking the court so they do not have to leave their cushy 7 and 8 digit figure businesses and jobs...once the court is/are locked down they will just use their lawyers to "legislate from the bench" the way liberals have since the 60's...not gonna be very much fun for any of us but some of you asked for it.

 

[hunarcy]

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

What happens if Trump and his Administration just ignores the House? Will the Trump Justice Department follow the Obama Justice Department example and just ignore the calls of the House to prosecute those who are in Contempt of the House?

 

[skews13]

In another 20 years, white conservatives will no longer be making any decisions about anything.

Why use the word "white" as a qualifier? What point are you trying to make? If it is what I think, please make your racist comments loud and clear so white people will vote in unison like a minority block.

Ask a Native American why white is the main qualifier.

There is nothing more repugnant than a white conservative.

There are no resistance movements against, or counterculture movements that exist that aren't solely aimed at countering what white conservatives are, and what they stand for.

To many of them have convinced themselves that what started in the 1960's, some how went away in the 1980's.

They are sadly fucking mistaken.

By the 2040's, those evil freaks of nature will be a minority of the population and there won't be any great white hopes that will be coming to their rescue.

A whole new population of people that don't look like, or think like them, will be deciding how they live their lives.

I somehow don't think they will be able to live with that reality.

I can only imagine the celebrations and dancing that will be happening on Native American reservations all over the continent. There should be a sizeable number of them making legislative decisions for their white counterparts by then.

And it wasn’t just Kobach and Walker, Kansas and Wisconsin have been the go-to examples for Republicans, the test beds of their efforts to destroy labor, trash environmental rules, reward the wealthy, and surrender government services in the name of jobs, jobs, jobs. Both of those efforts are now in abject retreat.

If America’s states are the laboratories of democracy, Kansas and Wisconsin have demonstrated that all the conservative mix produces is an explosion.

Boom.

In fact, Republicans blew up Kansas so well that the blowback from that effort is likely to still be echoing for several elections to come.

Winning the House is not a consolation prize. It's the prize.

True the House is all that mattered. Other stuff would have been nice, but the future of the country rode on some part of the government being taken from the Trump cabal, and we got it.

You can soothe yourself anyway you wish, but the gop really wants no part of running the government so they are carefully taking a page from the lefts play book and stacking the court so they do not have to leave their cushy 7 and 8 digit figure businesses and jobs...once the court is/are locked down they will just use their lawyers to "legislate from the bench" the way liberals have since the 60's...not gonna be very much fun for any of us but some of you asked for it.

Doesn't matter. The courts cannot artificially extend the length of time for a political belief the people do not want.

This election was not a one off event. It is a changing climate representing the changing population. Republicans made the fatal mistake of going all in down the road of Trumpism. The election results of November 6th, will be repeated again in 2020, 2022, and beyond until the majority of state legislative seats are in the Democrats hands. Whether or not Trump is reelected is irrelevant, and thats a huge assumption considering the fact he may be in prison by then.

It was mainly women that started this wave, and they have built a very powerful political platform, that is very well financed. They will only be stronger by 2020, and Republicans have 21 Senate seats to defend. A repeat of this past election, with even more House seats picked up, more state legislature seats picked up, more governors chairs won, and the US Senate also, and Trump, as well as right wing Republicans will have little if no say in all legislation that will be passed between 2020-2030.

And the legacy of Trump will be gone,

And Obamacare, or Medicare for all will still be around.

And the tax cuts passed by Republicans will be paying for it after they are completely repealed.

And the courts will be able to do little if anything about it.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Doesn't matter. The courts cannot artificially extend the length of time for a political belief the people do not want.

but force can, take a look around and see if those stacking the court are also arming their constituents, militarizing the police forces, finding reasons to use military personnel on it's own soil...there are ways to reverse those political beliefs assuming they are even in the majority

This election was not a one off event. It is a changing climate representing the changing population. Republicans made the fatal mistake of going all in down the road of Trumpism. The election results of November 6th, will be repeated again in 2020, 2022, and beyond until the majority of state legislative seats are in the Democrats hands. Whether or not Trump is reelected is irrelevant, and thats a huge assumption considering the fact he may be in prison by then.

you are describing the 2016 election, this election [2018] in historical context was a failure for the party out of power, if like I claim the GOP's goal is to legislate from the bench then they would only be concerning themselves with the senate, not the house, and that is exactly how it turned out

It was mainly women that started this wave, and they have built a very powerful political platform, that is very well financed. They will only be stronger by 2020, and Republicans have 21 Senate seats to defend. A repeat of this past election, with even more House seats picked up, more state legislature seats picked up, more governors chairs won, and the US Senate also, and Trump, as well as right wing Republicans will have little if no say in all legislation that will be passed between 2020-2030.

while this is true the GOP will not need any say beyond what their lawyers do and say for them in court.

And the legacy of Trump will be gone,

could very well be the case, I didn't think he would make it to the mid-terms

And Obamacare, or Medicare for all will still be around.

we need something, the "medicare for all" is probably a better system but I will go along with the ACA

And the tax cuts passed by Republicans will be paying for it after they are completely repealed.

of course they will, no one expects the left to pay for anything, in fact if they felt strongly enough about it they [the left] could just pay for it themselves and there would be no need to repeal the tax cuts.

And the courts will be able to do little if anything about it.

the left has made the courts the final arbiter on all matters, [you don't really think Kavanaugh's assassination was a moral fight do you?]
the left's entire foundation is based on their end game and that end game is the court...I do think the left will prevail eventually, but its not going to be easy while trying to float PC policies and it may not be possible at all if they keep pretending they are not the worst offenders of their on policies.
...and if the GOP gains control of the courts the left will be required to sacrifice many of its own at the altar of justice it created just to survive never mind rule.[/QUOTE]

 

[Camp]

Democrats won and Trumpicans lost. Donald is leading his followers in an emotional childish denial and they are following like lemmings. Snowflakes and babies.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Democrats won and Trumpicans lost. Donald is leading his followers in an emotional childish denial and they are following like lemmings. Snowflakes and babies.

You sound sad

 

[candycorn]

I heard today that during the Clinton years, he lost the House by 60 seats, and Obama by nearly 70?

And Trump only lost it by what, 25, 30?

Maybe I have those numbers wrong, but I think that liberal propaganda is really minimizing the position that the lack of coherent Democratic vision that is killing the DNC. . .

Just an observation. . .

Perhaps. What the Dems don’t realize is this though….

When there was a conflict between the Congress and the President, the President usually came out smelling like a rose after it was over. I wonder how it will go between Trump and the Dem controlled House. I’m completely unsure who carries public opinion if there is a stalemate.

True. If the Dems can come up with something other than identity politics and how the white male patriarchy is bad, they might have a chance.

But the politics of hate don't seem to work well for Trump, so I doubt they will work well for the DNC.

Only a positive message of hope ever really resonates with the independents. It worked well for Obama, and that is the core of MAGA. This is what will draw them like honey. . . or jobs, growth, and a positive economy.

These parties need a plan and a way to implement it.

Platform? Yes
Plan? It would be nice but not necessary. I think the only way you’d signal to the other side that you are serious about bi partisanship on day 1 is to put a moderate from the other party on your ticket as VP and give her or him a real role in policy implementation. More on this later.

I listened to a podcast the other day called "The Hidden Duopoly". It was done by Freakonomics and it's founder Stephen J. Dubner. Google Freakonomics Radio if you want to hear it.

Part of me is like "duh"...it's not that hidden. But one of the conclusions they came up with was that the two major parties do not even try for the middle; they find easier vote-mining on the far ends of the spectrum. The middle--soft Dems and soft Repubs and true independents do not matter. If that is true, there is an opportunity for a true change agent.

Okay. Lets go back in time (harp music playing in the back) to June 7, 2008. It is the date Obama won the Democratic Nomination. McCain won on 9/4/2008. But unlike Obama, McCain had the thing sewn up long before that in March. Dubner contends that the parties don't care about them because there is no viable alternative..."Where are they going to go?" is how they put it. Now, lets say for the sake of argument that the running mate Joe Biden isn't picked at the time the nomination is sealed and McCain doesn't nominate Palin at the convention or toys with Lieberman prior to the convention. Once the nominations are in, they really cannot be changed so there is theoretically time between the nomination and election when someone who is a change agent can upset the system and nominate a prominent equal partner as running mate. It will take planning of course and a clear division of labor between the two people on the ticket on what they are going to try to accomplish.

There are two major things they can do to make it work.

Divide up appointments and national policy. Let the VP submit the names of Federal/SCOTUS judges and they and the top of the ticket hash out who will be picked for which judgships ahead of time. This is a big thing you can give to the other side in return for an easier go of it and the VP (who will be the presumptive nominee of their party when they are no longer are or going to be VPOTUS and will be in the position to cash in favors) helps you push through an agreeable agenda. Lets say minimum wage for example. Few conservatives continue to push the notion that a rise in the minimum wage is not necessary. Fewer still hold out the long debunked notion that it kills the economy. This is something that could be agreed upon if politics were not at play.

Divide by international/national priorities. And during times of international dischord (like we had in 08), let the VPOTUS essentially take the lead in military operations in return for the help on the domestic agenda.

----------------

Pipe dream? Maybe. But I think it will take a major shift at the top of the ticket before any serious bipartisanship will be possible.

"nominate a prominent equal partner as running mate"

That did not work very well for Lincoln, McKinley or Kennedy!

Not so sure about that. LBJ likely got more accomplished than JFK ever would have. I am sure that you don’t nominate your VP based on the fact that you may get shot and killed. Would JFK have done the same things LBJ did? Not sure.

Its a scenario that is born out of the very correct assessment of the Freakonomics editors and Stephen J. Dubner’s analysis. The voters are sort of locked into a devil’s bargain of sorts. It is this. If you’re a blue or a red, you’re locked in. You won’t vote for the other party so the parties count on you. If you’re an independent, you are not even courted because if you’re a soft blue or soft red, you have nowhere else to go except to the other party and in the unlikely event you do that in massive numbers; the parties hope to stymie your vote by mining the “more easily” pluck-able extreme left or extreme right people who have historically not voted. They do this by appealing to them and they don’t have to give away the store to get them.

The take away point is this. If you have a figure who is capable of winning her/his party’s nomination, there is a period of somewhere between 4 and 6 months where they could do something to signal to the opposition party that she/he is serious about getting stuff done and not just having to give speeches decrying the sad state of affairs in DC.

The details (if you care to read them) are as follows.

It would take someone who has some gravitas on the other side of the aisle as the VPOTUS
It would take someone who has enough political upside to where they would be a viable future POTUS
It would take someone who is willing to “play ball” as VPOTUS
It would take someone who is also willing to put the gameplay in place, and stick to it. The moment the plan is deviated from; the coalition falls apart on both sides.

Finding someone with gravitas who is willing to do the rest is the major hurdle. Because you’e asking them to take a subordinate role instead of a leadership one. If it fails; they are history. At the same time, this person would have to be someone who has enough upside to not just be a person who could be president some day but would figure to be a no-brainer. Sort of how Obama was viewed in 2004 after giving he speech at the DNC. I would say the most obvious person who could fill that role today is Marco Rubio. He lost badly in 2016 but looks like he still has some political legs. Nikki Haley comes to mind as well.

The “upside argument” is enhanced by being on the ticket. Few would have looked at Pence and said..”that is presidential timber”. Now as VPOTUS? He has a bit more gravitas. So, in keeping with the scenario, Rubio or Haley take the VPOTUS slot in 2020 (again—this is all theoretical) with a Democrat on top of the ticket.

Likewise with someone who is willing to play ball. In the scenario I laid out, the POTUS and VPOTUS would essentially use the playground rule to divide the agenda. They could limit it to four items; 2 each. It doesn’t have to be “one for you, one for me”, it could have endless configurations based on what each member of the ticket want. I think the sophisticated view is to limit it to two pieces of signature legislation and 2 to 4 pieces of “sweetener” to get the legislation passed. Lets say the democrat on the top of the ticket wants to get the minimum wage raised, and campaign finance reform. The republican VPOTUS wants to be the point person on nominating judges, legislation that would enhance deportations and border security, a promise for no new income tax hikes during their tenure, and support for a pet project; lets say it is a new nationwide pipeline or seriously funding NASA or a new class of battle cruiser. Essentially the two figures agree on the plan for the minimum wage—what it will be and the increments to get there. They agree on campaign finance reform nomenclature and how much money can be raised. They work out the list of judges and what potential/open judgeships they will be nominated for. Etc… All of this is hashed out over a series of meetings that take place in late Spring, early Summer. The POTUS agrees to nominate the judges, lobby for the legislation (promising to deliver 10 democrat YEA votes in the House for example), and the VPOTUS agrees to deliver X numbers of votes for the minimum wage and CFR; knowing that as VPOTUS and a potential POTUS nominee later on, they have some things to offer their party’s leadership and members.


Would it work? Who knows? I doubt it would even get out of the polite discussion phase over drinks. But it sure seems like it would be worth a try if you are going to run for President, why not try to be one who actually got some stuff done instead of the current status of “I suck less”?