Will we ever have single payer health care in this country?

[Markle]

I have always been torn on this issue. I have paid up to $25,000 per year for health insurance premiums. If we had Medicare for all, I would pay higher taxes instead of the premium, but would the new tax exceed the $25,000? I have no idea how it would really effect anyone.

Here's your answer. I prepared this, based on real numbers, a couple of years ago before our tax-cut.

 

[Markle]

I think the very next time the dems the presidency and both chambers of Congress we’re headed for single payer healthcare.

No chance, at least not in my lifetime.

Any candidate running with that as a promise will be destroyed by the Republicans. I can only hope that all the front runner Democrats run on that as part of their platform. Republicans will simply post the FACT that it is unaffordable, not by a smidge, but by TRILLIONS of dollars.

 

[dblack]

Medicare, basic Medicare, is farmed out to private insurance companies, just like the employer provided variety.

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

You're an idiot.

You posted a link about Medicare Advantage...NOT basic Medicare.

Fukken dunce

Nope.

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

"Most people think Medicare is a government program. That’s only partly true. While Congress created Medicare, and continues to develop Medicare coverage and appeal rules, decisions to pay claims are actually made by private companies. The government does not make those decisions. This was one of the compromises made in order to pass Medicare in 1965 – and the public-private partnership continues to date.

Indeed, the entities granting or denying coverage, and those deciding whether or not to pay claims, are mostly private insurance companies. For example, Anthem is the parent company of “National Government Services,” one of the major Medicare claims administrators. Another Medicare administrative contractor, “MAXIMUS,” is a for-profit company that helps state, federal and foreign governments administer programs.

In addition, about 30% of Medicare beneficiaries are enrolled in private “Medicare Advantage” plans. These plans are also run by private companies, mostly within the insurance industry, and they make Medicare initial coverage decisions for their enrollees.

We know that when Medicare is working right and covering necessary care, everyone is content. But, if coverage is denied unfairly… don’t blame the government. It’s probably not “Medicare” that made the decision; it’s most likely a private insurance company that’s paid by Medicare to make coverage decisions."

 

[Markle]

and the people receiving it PAID for it out of every paycheck for their entire working lives.

No, that's not true.

I am receiving...Medicare. Since I have been on Medicare, I have cost Medicare more than double the total of what I paid into Medicare from day one. Easily that will go to three or four times what I paid into Medicare by the time I croak. I don't believe that to be unusual.

 

[Markle]

No, I'm against Single Payer.

If you don't know the difference between our current Medicare system and Single Payer, go and educate yourself.

If I use Medicare, which I do, other than the government, who pays for my health care?

Since my retirement, I have used more than double everything I ever paid into Medicare. By the time I croak, that could rise to three or four times easily. How do you propose that is paid for by other taxpayers?

Medicare doesn't pay for all your health care. It has gaps, and co-insurance. It also has no built-in drug plan or out of pocket maximums.

If you have a Medicare Supplement to cover those gaps, you're going through an insurance company. If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, that is a partnership between CMS and the insurer.

Very, very few people have Medicare alone.
.

Your point?

 

[Mac1958]

Medicare, basic Medicare, is farmed out to private insurance companies, just like the employer provided variety.

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

With Medicare Advantage plans, the participant's entire Medicare coverage responsibility is shifted to the MA insurance company, and the company is paid a PM/PM (Per Member Per Month) fee to take over that coverage.

The MA company then can add extra features, such as the very popular Silver Sneakers exercise program usually delivered at YMCA locations. It keeps our seniors healthier (literally), and that's crucial, since nearly 50% of our lifetime health costs are incurred after age 65. Then they all COMPETE and INNOVATE on pricing, networks, quality and medical benefits in each county, with bottom-line requirements for each plan.

So it is a partnership. Gee, what a nice idea.

Medicare Supplements are different. The traditional Medicare foundation remains, and the Med Supp fills in the substantial gaps in coverage - the few people who have Medicare alone think they are "covered" and they are not. They have "coverage", but still have high potential exposure to out-of-pocket costs.

In both cases, the two work together very well. Most importantly, there is a healthy, regular, ongoing tension between the two parties on costs and restrictions, keeping each other in line and keeping each other a little more efficient. There is nothing even NEAR a monopoly. The system is fully ready to be scaled up, with some important tweaks. Hopefully we'll end up just expanding THIS strategy to all, and not Single Payer, a massive, sloth-like monopoly.
.

 

[Mac1958]

No, I'm against Single Payer.

If you don't know the difference between our current Medicare system and Single Payer, go and educate yourself.

If I use Medicare, which I do, other than the government, who pays for my health care?

Since my retirement, I have used more than double everything I ever paid into Medicare. By the time I croak, that could rise to three or four times easily. How do you propose that is paid for by other taxpayers?

Medicare doesn't pay for all your health care. It has gaps, and co-insurance. It also has no built-in drug plan or out of pocket maximums.

If you have a Medicare Supplement to cover those gaps, you're going through an insurance company. If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, that is a partnership between CMS and the insurer.

Very, very few people have Medicare alone.
.

Your point?

My point is that you clearly don't understand how the full Medicare system works, and unless/until you do, trying to discuss it with you is pointless.
.

 

[JoeB131]

I have always been torn on this issue. I have paid up to $25,000 per year for health insurance premiums. If we had Medicare for all, I would pay higher taxes instead of the premium, but would the new tax exceed the $25,000? I have no idea how it would really effect anyone.

Here's your answer. I prepared this, based on real numbers, a couple of years ago before our tax-cut.

Most people don't live in Florida or make 100K. So you really had to cherry pick your numbers to make Single Payer look worse.

Here's the reality- The US Spends 17% of it's GDP on health care.

Canada spends about 11%.

Most of us would benefit greatly from single payer. It would kind of suck for the rich, they'd actually have to pay their fair share. I'll lose about five minutes of sleep over that.

 

[JoeB131]

My point is that you clearly don't understand how the full Medicare system works, and unless/until you do, trying to discuss it with you is pointless.

Vichy Mac thinks the worst part about Medicare is big insurance can't loot more of it than they already are through the Medicare part C scam.

 

[Rustic]

I have always been torn on this issue. I have paid up to $25,000 per year for health insurance premiums. If we had Medicare for all, I would pay higher taxes instead of the premium, but would the new tax exceed the $25,000? I have no idea how it would really effect anyone.

Here's your answer. I prepared this, based on real numbers, a couple of years ago before our tax-cut.

Most people don't live in Florida or make 100K. So you really had to cherry pick your numbers to make Single Payer look worse.

Here's the reality- The US Spends 17% of it's GDP on health care.

Canada spends about 11%.

Most of us would benefit greatly from single payer. It would kind of suck for the rich, they'd actually have to pay their fair share. I'll lose about five minutes of sleep over that.

Lol
Single player would destroy this country in a generation you ******* moron

 

[JoeB131]

Lol
Single player would destroy this country in a generation you ******* moron

Based on what?

Every other country has single payer and they are fine.

 

[22lcidw]

Lol
Single player would destroy this country in a generation you ******* moron

Based on what?

Every other country has single payer and they are fine.

Whether we have single payer or not we are the most unhealthiest major nation on the planet. And it will cost more then they spout because of all of our groups and jealousies and accusations of who gets prioritized for medical care.

 

[Mac1958]

Lol
Single player would destroy this country in a generation you ******* moron

Based on what?

Every other country has single payer and they are fine.

Whether we have single payer or not we are the most unhealthiest major nation on the planet. And it will cost more then they spout because of all of our groups and jealousies and accusations of who gets prioritized for medical care.

That's an important point.

As usual, there's a significant cultural component to this that is rarely addressed because the children are too busy screaming.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Whether we have single payer or not we are the most unhealthiest major nation on the planet. And it will cost more then they spout because of all of our groups and jealousies and accusations of who gets prioritized for medical care.

You don't see a correlation between being "most unhealthiest" and the fact that a quarter of us either have inadequate insurance or no insurance at all? The fact is, we spend more because there are too many people making a profit who contribute nothing to health, such as investors, executives, and bureaucrats... Every doctor's office has four people in it whose only job is to file insurance claims....

That's an important point.

As usual, there's a significant cultural component to this that is rarely addressed because the children are too busy screaming.

Hey, Vichy Mac, you ever been to Canada? It's like the alternate universe where the US lost the Revolutionary War, but everything else is pretty much the same. They eat the same unhealthy crap we eat, they smoke, they drink, they don't exercise, just like we do.

The only major difference is that they treat health care as a public service instead of a profit making opportunity.

 

[22lcidw]

Whether we have single payer or not we are the most unhealthiest major nation on the planet. And it will cost more then they spout because of all of our groups and jealousies and accusations of who gets prioritized for medical care.

You don't see a correlation between being "most unhealthiest" and the fact that a quarter of us either have inadequate insurance or no insurance at all? The fact is, we spend more because there are too many people making a profit who contribute nothing to health, such as investors, executives, and bureaucrats... Every doctor's office has four people in it whose only job is to file insurance claims....

That's an important point.

As usual, there's a significant cultural component to this that is rarely addressed because the children are too busy screaming.

Hey, Vichy Mac, you ever been to Canada? It's like the alternate universe where the US lost the Revolutionary War, but everything else is pretty much the same. They eat the same unhealthy crap we eat, they smoke, they drink, they don't exercise, just like we do.

The only major difference is that they treat health care as a public service instead of a profit making opportunity.

Medical care was care in the past. People even used clinics at a higher percentage. Now it is a business. With plenty of lawyers involved. When we make laws, we skim past a lot of stuff and sometime down the road it turns rough. Social Security was supposed to be solvent until the 2070's when the SS increases and age increases were made into law in the 1980's. Now it has no more then a dozen years before it goes negative.

 

[JoeB131]

Medical care was care in the past. People even used clinics at a higher percentage. Now it is a business. With plenty of lawyers involved. When we make laws, we skim past a lot of stuff and sometime down the road it turns rough. Social Security was supposed to be solvent until the 2070's when the SS increases and age increases were made into law in the 1980's. Now it has no more then a dozen years before it goes negative.

Social Security is only "insolvent" because we took that money for wars and tax cuts for billionaires....

Yes, when you have an insurance company that is for profit, they are going to make your life as difficult as possible when you want to use a clinic... that's the point. It's why our metrics are so bad, people don't go to a clinic until something really ******* hurts.

 

[Lesh]

Original Medicare...or Medicare Part A...is single payer.

There...we fixed that

 

[dblack]

My point is that you clearly don't understand how the full Medicare system works, and unless/until you do, trying to discuss it with you is pointless.

Vichy Mac thinks the worst part about Medicare is big insurance can't loot more of it than they already are through the Medicare part C scam.

They profit well enough from basic Medicare. Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

 

[Mac1958]

Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

"Medicare for All" is just a political line. What they're after is pure Single Payer, not "Medicare (as it actually exists) for All".

In other words, they're lying.

And compensation to MA companies can easily be fixed. It's an issue that can be addressed. We can't just see a problem and give up. When did that start happening?
.

 

[dblack]

Medicare, basic Medicare, is farmed out to private insurance companies, just like the employer provided variety.

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

With Medicare Advantage plans -

Read the first link a gain. Medicare itself, not the supplemental policies but the program itself, is administered, for a profit, by private insurance companies.

So it is a partnership. Gee, what a nice idea.

No, it's a horrible idea. And it's what happens with pretty much every attempt to inject the socialist ethos into US government. They simply create another corporate feeding trough.

Most importantly, there is a healthy, regular, ongoing tension between the two parties on costs and restrictions, keeping each other in line and keeping each other a little more efficient. There is nothing even NEAR a monopoly. The system is fully ready to be scaled up, with some important tweaks. Hopefully we'll end up just expanding THIS strategy to all, and not Single Payer, a massive, sloth-like monopoly.

I couldn't disagree more. If you're going to socialize health care, Medicare is the WRONG model to follow. There's nothing healthy about it. People think Medicare for All will remove corporate profits from the equation, but it won't. It will remove consumers from the equation. It will simply have Congress and the insurance industry doubling up on taxpayers and divvying up the spoils on K street.