Will we ever have single payer health care in this country?

[Mac1958]

This issue is a perfect example of how politics poisons everything.

Wingers "analyze" everything backwards. They BEGIN with the position they want (SINGLE PAYER! FREE MARKET!), and then work backwards, considering only that information which supports their position and ignoring the rest. And no matter how flimsy or shallow or controvertible their "support" for their "conclusion" is, they continue to ignore, avoid and distort all contrary evidence and ideas. Zero logic whatsoever.

Gawd, I wish our wingers would find another ******* hobby.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Medicare, basic Medicare, is farmed out to private insurance companies, just like the employer provided variety.

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

With Medicare Advantage plans -

Read the first link a gain. Medicare itself, not the supplemental policies but the program itself, is administered, for a profit, by private insurance companies.

So it is a partnership. Gee, what a nice idea.

No, it's a horrible idea. And it's what happens with pretty much every attempt to inject the socialist ethos into US government. They simply create another corporate feeding trough.

Most importantly, there is a healthy, regular, ongoing tension between the two parties on costs and restrictions, keeping each other in line and keeping each other a little more efficient. There is nothing even NEAR a monopoly. The system is fully ready to be scaled up, with some important tweaks. Hopefully we'll end up just expanding THIS strategy to all, and not Single Payer, a massive, sloth-like monopoly.

I couldn't disagree more. If you're going to socialize health care, Medicare is the WRONG model to follow. There's nothing healthy about it. People think Medicare for All will remove corporate profits from the equation, but it won't. It will remove consumers from the equation. It will simply have Congress and the insurance industry divvying up the spoils at our expense.

What is your plan?
.

 

[dblack]

Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

"Medicare for All" is just a political line. What they're after is pure Single Payer, not "Medicare (as it actually exists) for All".

In other words, they're lying.

Exactly. The single biggest selling point of "Medicare for All" is that it's a simple expansion of an existing system, that it requires no new infrastructure. And that's probably how it will play out, despite the intent.

And compensation to MA companies can easily be fixed. It's an issue that can be addressed. We can't just see a problem and give up. When did that start happening?

We can at least recognize our past mistakes and not double down on stupid.

 

[dblack]

Medicare, basic Medicare, is farmed out to private insurance companies, just like the employer provided variety.

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

With Medicare Advantage plans -

Read the first link a gain. Medicare itself, not the supplemental policies but the program itself, is administered, for a profit, by private insurance companies.

So it is a partnership. Gee, what a nice idea.

No, it's a horrible idea. And it's what happens with pretty much every attempt to inject the socialist ethos into US government. They simply create another corporate feeding trough.

Most importantly, there is a healthy, regular, ongoing tension between the two parties on costs and restrictions, keeping each other in line and keeping each other a little more efficient. There is nothing even NEAR a monopoly. The system is fully ready to be scaled up, with some important tweaks. Hopefully we'll end up just expanding THIS strategy to all, and not Single Payer, a massive, sloth-like monopoly.

I couldn't disagree more. If you're going to socialize health care, Medicare is the WRONG model to follow. There's nothing healthy about it. People think Medicare for All will remove corporate profits from the equation, but it won't. It will remove consumers from the equation. It will simply have Congress and the insurance industry divvying up the spoils at our expense.

What is your plan?
.

First, do no harm. I'm trying to convince health care reformers not to make the same mistake they made with ACA. There is tremendous pressure in our political system to serve corporate interests first. It happens every goddamned time, and you all are getting ready to do it again.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I think the very next time the dems the presidency and both chambers of Congress we’re headed for single payer healthcare.

/----/ The best Single Payer is: You buy it - You pay for it.

 

[Redfish]

If that happens we will become what Venezuela is today, get ready to eat your dogs and cats and zoo animals.

We'll become an oil based economy with massive corruption because we have affordable healthcare?

I don't think so

Venezuela was one of the most prosperous countries in the world before socialism took over, now it is literally a shit hole where the people are eating their pets, zoo animals, and wild parrots. socialized medicine is always where it starts, corruption and poverty is always where it ends. Socialism never works, never has, never will.

 

[Redfish]

Yes - I think that the U.S. will eventually implement single-payer healthcare.

It's not all-that-radical a concept in most parts of the world, although it freaks-out Big Insurance and Big Pharma here.

The Devil's in the details, though, and I'm guessing we'll make huge mistakes during the early going.

But, I also think that the planets are going to have to align "just so", before it's even attempted.

Requiring a Democrat -controlled House, Senate, Oval Office and (quite possibly) Supreme Court.

That may take another half-generation or more before we see any such alignment.

If that happens we will become what Venezuela is today, get ready to eat your dogs and cats and zoo animals.

Why would some sort of universal healthcare result in us becoming a Third World $hithole?

because we cannot afford it without massive tax increases and socialized medicine is always the first step to destructive socialist policies. chavez and Maduro started out by promising free medical care for all and punative taxes on the rich. same rhetoric as the socialist dems are preaching in this country today. Wake the **** up before its too late.

 

[Redfish]

lets correct misconceptions about medicare as it stands today

1. it is not single payer
2. the people receiving it paid for it out of every paycheck their entire working lives
3. basic medicare only pays 80% of your medical bills, you are responsible for 20%
4. in order to get most of it paid you must join a medicare advantage or medicare supplement plan, most of which require a monthly payment.
5. Its not FREE.

 

[Redfish]

and the people receiving it PAID for it out of every paycheck for their entire working lives.

No, that's not true.

I am receiving...Medicare. Since I have been on Medicare, I have cost Medicare more than double the total of what I paid into Medicare from day one. Easily that will go to three or four times what I paid into Medicare by the time I croak. I don't believe that to be unusual.

sure, many have that outcome, but there also millions who paid in but did not live long enough to ever collect anything, much like social security. and it is true that both categories paid into it their entire working lives as are those who are working today.

 

[22lcidw]

Medical care was care in the past. People even used clinics at a higher percentage. Now it is a business. With plenty of lawyers involved. When we make laws, we skim past a lot of stuff and sometime down the road it turns rough. Social Security was supposed to be solvent until the 2070's when the SS increases and age increases were made into law in the 1980's. Now it has no more then a dozen years before it goes negative.

Social Security is only "insolvent" because we took that money for wars and tax cuts for billionaires....

Yes, when you have an insurance company that is for profit, they are going to make your life as difficult as possible when you want to use a clinic... that's the point. It's why our metrics are so bad, people don't go to a clinic until something really ******* hurts.

Not entirely true. Government expanded social programs big time. And the CBO spouted 4% growth...p.s...the clinic was different in the 1960's.

 

[Cellblock2429]

lets correct misconceptions about medicare as it stands today

1. it is not single payer
2. the people receiving it paid for it out of every paycheck their entire working lives
3. basic medicare only pays 80% of your medical bills, you are responsible for 20%
4. in order to get most of it paid you must join a medicare advantage or medicare supplement plan, most of which require a monthly payment.
5. Its not FREE.

/-----/
Yeah but it's free healthcare.

 

[SmokeALib]

Medicare for All would be a windfall for insurance companies.

"Medicare for All" is just a political line. What they're after is pure Single Payer, not "Medicare (as it actually exists) for All".

In other words, they're lying.

Exactly. The single biggest selling point of "Medicare for All" is that it's a simple expansion of an existing system, that it requires no new infrastructure. And that's probably how it will play out, despite the intent.

And compensation to MA companies can easily be fixed. It's an issue that can be addressed. We can't just see a problem and give up. When did that start happening?

We can at least recognize our past mistakes and not double down on stupid.

Not real simple. The government will take ownership of all the hospitals. All those employees will become employed by the government. The government will set all pricing and determine all procedures. Research and development - gone.

 

[Lesh]

Not real simple. The government will take ownership of all the hospitals.

Does Medicare do that NOW?

No?

Oh....

 

[Lesh]

lets correct misconceptions about medicare as it stands today

1. it is not single payer
2. the people receiving it paid for it out of every paycheck their entire working lives
3. basic medicare only pays 80% of your medical bills, you are responsible for 20%
4. in order to get most of it paid you must join a medicare advantage or medicare supplement plan, most of which require a monthly payment.
5. Its not FREE.

Basic Medicare IS single payer.

As far as the rest..

So?

 

[SmokeALib]

Not real simple. The government will take ownership of all the hospitals.

Does Medicare do that NOW?

No?

Oh....

Don't quite have all your groceries bagged - doya?

 

[dblack]

lets correct misconceptions about medicare as it stands today

1. it is not single payer
2. the people receiving it paid for it out of every paycheck their entire working lives
3. basic medicare only pays 80% of your medical bills, you are responsible for 20%
4. in order to get most of it paid you must join a medicare advantage or medicare supplement plan, most of which require a monthly payment.
5. Its not FREE.

Basic Medicare IS single payer.

Label it however you like. It's another corporate feeding trough. And you want to expand it.

 

[Likkmee]

The correct way is the employEE pays 9% (or so) The employER pays 23% of the employees salary to cover health and pensions, death, etc
Problem over.

 

[Mac1958]

Wrong...Basic Medicare is NOT farmed out...Medicare Advantage is

Wrong...Basic Medicare IS farmed out:

33. Medicare is a Private–Public Partnership || Center for Medicare Advocacy

And it brings them considerable revenue:

Nearly 60 percent of top health insurers' revenue comes from Medicare and Medicaid

Analysis: The 'Big 5' Insurers Are Increasingly Dependent on Medicare and Medicaid for Revenue

What You Need To Know About Medicare For All, Part I

With Medicare Advantage plans -

Read the first link a gain. Medicare itself, not the supplemental policies but the program itself, is administered, for a profit, by private insurance companies.

So it is a partnership. Gee, what a nice idea.

No, it's a horrible idea. And it's what happens with pretty much every attempt to inject the socialist ethos into US government. They simply create another corporate feeding trough.

Most importantly, there is a healthy, regular, ongoing tension between the two parties on costs and restrictions, keeping each other in line and keeping each other a little more efficient. There is nothing even NEAR a monopoly. The system is fully ready to be scaled up, with some important tweaks. Hopefully we'll end up just expanding THIS strategy to all, and not Single Payer, a massive, sloth-like monopoly.

I couldn't disagree more. If you're going to socialize health care, Medicare is the WRONG model to follow. There's nothing healthy about it. People think Medicare for All will remove corporate profits from the equation, but it won't. It will remove consumers from the equation. It will simply have Congress and the insurance industry divvying up the spoils at our expense.

What is your plan?
.

First, do no harm. I'm trying to convince health care reformers not to make the same mistake they made with ACA. There is tremendous pressure in our political system to serve corporate interests first. It happens every goddamned time, and you all are getting ready to do it again.

I think this would be the best approach. I trained on the plans for many years so that I could guide clients. I was the financial guy in the room for one of the main Medicare Advantage plan providers for many years as the plans were assembled, piece by piece, benefit by benefit, county by county in my state. I know the strengths and weaknesses of the system, and I know how easily this could be done.

I think this is just another political matter, and it's hurting us.
.

 

[JWBooth]

I think the very next time the dems the presidency and both chambers of Congress we’re headed for single payer healthcare.

Probably true, not a good thing. GOP does not have the backbone to stand in the way.

 

[Markle]

No, I'm against Single Payer.

If you don't know the difference between our current Medicare system and Single Payer, go and educate yourself.

If I use Medicare, which I do, other than the government, who pays for my health care?

Since my retirement, I have used more than double everything I ever paid into Medicare. By the time I croak, that could rise to three or four times easily. How do you propose that is paid for by other taxpayers?

Medicare doesn't pay for all your health care. It has gaps, and co-insurance. It also has no built-in drug plan or out of pocket maximums.

If you have a Medicare Supplement to cover those gaps, you're going through an insurance company. If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, that is a partnership between CMS and the insurer.

Very, very few people have Medicare alone.
.

Your point?

My point is that you clearly don't understand how the full Medicare system works, and unless/until you do, trying to discuss it with you is pointless.
.

CLEARLY! The countries whose health care you lust for, say Canada and Great Britain, they too have supplemental health insurance and private, cash only, physicians.