Will this usher in socialism?

[elvis]

My cousin thinks socialism is on the way. He is a socialist. He thinks the free market went too far and the government will not allow it to get out of hand again.

Karl Marx once said if you give a capitalist too much rope, he will hang himself with it. That is an eerie quote today.

If we had real capitalism where the government doesn't bail companies out, but they just fall on their faces, would these loans have been given out?

 

[Zoomie1980]

My cousin thinks socialism is on the way. He is a socialist. He thinks the free market went too far and the government will not allow it to get out of hand again.

Karl Marx once said if you give a capitalist too much rope, he will hang himself with it. That is an eerie quote today.

If we had real capitalism where the government doesn't bail companies out, but they just fall on their faces, would these loans have been given out?

Today's vote is a clear indication that it is not. Not sure what they will get done, but it is clear a nationalization of mortages and banks has NO support from the country. Congressional calls and e-mails were 9 to 1 AGAINST the bill.

We, as a people, would rather go into a DEPRESSION before agreeing to a socialist takeover of our finances.

 

[AshamedAmerican]

Tell your cousin that we don't have to worry about socialists taking over the country.

Because the fascists who are already in control will never allow that.

 

[Diuretic]

The only way America will get socialism is if America votes for it. I can't see it, there hasn't been enough of a breakdown yet for a nation to lose faith in its whole economic system.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The only way America will get socialism is if America votes for it. I can't see it, there hasn't been enough of a breakdown yet for a nation to lose faith in its whole economic system.

There hasn't been enough of a breakdown that Americans will trust the government to run their lives. And there probably never will be.

 

[Diuretic]

There hasn't been enough of a breakdown that Americans will trust the government to run their lives. And there probably never will be.

Governments run your lives, like it or not. The existence of government says your lives - and mine too - are being run by government. The point is will you take the opportunity to begin the slow move towards abolition of government? It has to start somewhere, may as well be now. I don't mean the Grover Norquist model of drowning government so corporations can take over, that's just replacing one form of plutocracy with another. I mean the actual move towards the dismantling of the state to be replaced by a pure communist society.

How does that strike you?

 

[editec]

Tell your cousin that we don't have to worry about socialists taking over the country.

Because the fascists who are already in control will never allow that.

Spot on.

 

[editec]

Dismantle the government and who wins?

The bastards who bankrupted it, that's who.

Declare a moratorium on all national debt and who loses?

The bastards who bankrupted it, that's who.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Governments run your lives, like it or not. The existence of government says your lives - and mine too - are being run by government. The point is will you take the opportunity to begin the slow move towards abolition of government? It has to start somewhere, may as well be now. I don't mean the Grover Norquist model of drowning government so corporations can take over, that's just replacing one form of plutocracy with another. I mean the actual move towards the dismantling of the state to be replaced by a pure communist society.

How does that strike you?

I'll give you that. I guess it's the degree of government control with which one is comfortable that is the question.

As for "pure communism", I just don't believe it can work with large populations.

 

[Diuretic]

I'll give you that. I guess it's the degree of government control with which one is comfortable that is the question.

As for "pure communism", I just don't believe it can work with large populations.

And to be fair I'm banging on about a counsel of perfection. It may take another thousand years to get there but as the Chinese saying goes, the longest journey starts with the first step,.

I'm getting out of my intelliigence grade here but I would agree that large populations will just mean more of the same, the same old dictatorship just under a new name. I suppose that means we - humans - need to redefine ourselves along different lines. I know it's a bit obvious but I think that's a starting point. And it can be done. I mean, look at Europe, historically speaking I mean. The political entity of "Italy" is less than a couple of hundred years old. Our Earth is composed of land masses with people on them. They weren't always divided as they are now. It is entirely possible for them to be divided along different functional lines in the future.

 

[editec]

The GOVERNMENT, one ACTUALLT RUN AS A DEMOCRACY needs to be the source of all money.

Not a group of insiders, but the PEOPLE.

This whole problem stems from that, ya know.

 

[AshamedAmerican]

Dismantle the government and who wins?

The bastards who bankrupted it, that's who.

Declare a moratorium on all national debt and who loses?

The bastards who bankrupted it, that's who.

Very good point, but you left one tiny detail out.
The "bastards who bankrupted it" (and I could not have said it better myself)
Can't win if we rounded them up and executed every last one of them as we should, for treason.

 

[AllieBaba]

News flash, idiots.
We're a republic, not a true democracy.

We have voted resoundingly against socialism in voting against this idiotic bail out. Hopefully congress will not (again) ignore the will of the people and push it down our throats.

And, finally, socialists think socialism is coming everywhere because they make it a point to (attempt to) subjugate those who don't agree.

 

[AshamedAmerican]

News flash, idiots.
We're a republic, not a true democracy.

Go find your self a dictionary and look up fascism and corporatism.
We were FOUNDED as a democratic republic.
Those days are long gone my friend.
Welcome... to the evil empire.
The Greatest Show On Earth!
Please deposit your soul in the collection box to the left and form a straight line.
You will receive antidepressants and an RFID chip shortly.
Anyone who steps out of the straight line will be shot in the head immediately.
Complimentary NWO keychains are available at the gift shop.
Please enjoy your stay.

 

[gonegolfin]

My cousin thinks socialism is on the way. He is a socialist. He thinks the free market went too far and the government will not allow it to get out of hand again.

This is where your cousin is confused. It is precisely because we have not had a free market, that we are having these problems. Government meddling of all sorts has put us in this position. You can start with the Federal Reserve not allowing the free market to determine interest rates. This is just a start ... the list goes on and on. But it all starts with the Federal Reserve.

So obviously, socialism has been here for some time. But the heat is being turned up.

"In his Communist Manifesto, published in 1848, Karl Marx proposed 10 measures to be implemented after the proletariat takes power, with the aim of centralizing all instruments of production in the hands of the state. Proposal Number Five was to bring about the “centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.”

If he were to rise from the dead today, Marx might be delighted to discover that most economists and financial commentators, including many who claim to favour the free market, agree with him."

Read the following post carefully ...
http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/59634-bailout-marks-karl-marxs-comeback.html

Karl Marx once said if you give a capitalist too much rope, he will hang himself with it. That is an eerie quote today.

But again ... it is not a failure of free market capitalism. It is a failure due to socialist intervention.

If we had real capitalism where the government doesn't bail companies out, but they just fall on their faces, would these loans have been given out?

Precisely. We do not have free market capitalism.

Brian

 

[Ultra]

The part of Usher will be played tonight by the War of Northern Aggression.

 

[elvis]

Tell your cousin that we don't have to worry about socialists taking over the country.

Because the fascists who are already in control will never allow that.

Hmmm.
Which is worse?

 

[AshamedAmerican]

How many times can I say this...
Go find a dictionary.
Look up socialism.
Look up fascism.
look up corporatism.

It can be debated whether this is a corporatist or fascist nation, but most will agree it is clearly corporatism that has taken over this country.

The birth of it was in 1913 when the federal reserve was founded.

Our income taxes pay off the debt we incur because of the fact that the federal reserve (a privately owned, unregulated entity, that is no more "federal" than federal express is) prints our money for us, then they lend this imaginary money that they printed out of thin air to us, with interest.



Every time they print this "magic" money that comes from nowhere, and is not backed by gold, the value of our dollar drops.

There are plenty of other arguements to be made, and other things that helped along the way but the creation of the federal reserve was the root cause... of what you are seeing now, and unfortunately what will follow this.

 

[elvis]

Go find your self a dictionary and look up fascism and corporatism.
We were FOUNDED as a democratic republic.
Those days are long gone my friend.
Welcome... to the evil empire.
The Greatest Show On Earth!
Please deposit your soul in the collection box to the left and form a straight line.
You will receive antidepressants and an RFID chip shortly.
Anyone who steps out of the straight line will be shot in the head immediately.
Complimentary NWO keychains are available at the gift shop.
Please enjoy your stay.

Mussolini once defined fascism as corporatism, because he called it the marriage of government and business.
But is this the correct definition?

 

[glockmail]

My cousin thinks socialism is on the way. He is a socialist. He thinks the free market went too far and the government will not allow it to get out of hand again.

Karl Marx once said if you give a capitalist too much rope, he will hang himself with it. That is an eerie quote today.

If we had real capitalism where the government doesn't bail companies out, but they just fall on their faces, would these loans have been given out?

he answer is no, these loans would not have been given out.

The plan by the Democrats all along was for the economy to tank, then blame it on the Republicans. This is illustrated very boldly in Pelosi's "fuck you Republicans" comments before the vote, along with her "GOP ain't patriotic" comments the day earlier.