Will austerity destroy England?

[Avatar4321]

Why is it there are those who presume that living within ones means is impossible and will destroy them?

we really need to grow in maturity in this world.

 

[pgm]

It won't destroy England, but all historic evidence says it'll hurt. The hope is that once England gets through this, they'll be stronger.

 

[Polk]

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

I didn't. The conclusion was provided by Britain keeping it's credit rating, which is more than we managed to achieve.

I tend to avoid partisan bullshit and use logic for my opinions.

Hold on a second - let me see if I have this right:

We are supposed to interpret the move to "negative" outlook for Britain by a private credit rating firm to mean that "International economists think <austerity> is a good way forward?"

Let's take a look at some other measure of how "international economists" perceive a nation's outlook: The price they'll accept to buy its bonds.

There you go, invoking those crazy markets.

 

[MiddleClass]

And America is trying tor recover from a decade of right wing dishonest handling of the economy. It took eight years of Republican Rule to dig this deep economic hole, it may take that long for Democrats to dig us back out.

 

[Avatar4321]

And America is trying tor recover from a decade of right wing dishonest handling of the economy. It took eight years of Republican Rule to dig this deep economic hole, it may take that long for Democrats to dig us back out.

You mean it took 100 years of progressive policies to dig us into this whole. That's what you get when you have politicians lying to you and believing them when they tell you that they will take care of everything. That's what you get when policians lie and tell you we can continually spend more than we take in with no consequences.

This is what we get when people are lied to and told it doesn't matter who they are or how they live, the government will make things right.

when you see the lie for what it is, it's obvious what caused our current situation. And it wasn't one party doing one thing wrong. It was a joint effort.

But I doubt you are interested in the truth or fixing the problem. Just blaming Republicans.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The increase in unemployment was driven by a large fall in public sector jobs.

In the three months to June, public sector employment fell by 111,000 whilst private sector jobs grew by only 41,000. In other words the private sector only created 1 job for every 2.7 jobs lost in the public sector.

Crucially the three months to June (that these figures cover) saw the start of the new financial year and the beginnings of real austerity from the government. On these numbers, the government’s cuts agenda is off to a truly awful start.

NOW the cuts are biting

Yes. I know when times in my life were hard, the worst thing I did was cut back. What was I thinking? I should have taken out five more credit cards and gone to Jamaica.

 

[pgm]

All that is happening in England, along with most of Europe, is that they are trying to recover from a decade of left wing dishonest handling of their economies.

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

 

[8537]

Why is it there are those who presume that living within ones means is impossible and will destroy them?

Who is saying that? It's a question of how you define one's means.

 

[Polk]

The increase in unemployment was driven by a large fall in public sector jobs.

In the three months to June, public sector employment fell by 111,000 whilst private sector jobs grew by only 41,000. In other words the private sector only created 1 job for every 2.7 jobs lost in the public sector.

Crucially the three months to June (that these figures cover) saw the start of the new financial year and the beginnings of real austerity from the government. On these numbers, the government’s cuts agenda is off to a truly awful start.

NOW the cuts are biting

Yes. I know when times in my life were hard, the worst thing I did was cut back. What was I thinking? I should have taken out five more credit cards and gone to Jamaica.

Fallacy of composition.

 

[California Girl]

And America is trying tor recover from a decade of right wing dishonest handling of the economy. It took eight years of Republican Rule to dig this deep economic hole, it may take that long for Democrats to dig us back out.

8 years of 'Republican Rule'? You're rather hysterical whining is not based in reality... you probably don't know that, huh?

 

[8537]

All that is happening in England, along with most of Europe, is that they are trying to recover from a decade of left wing dishonest handling of their economies.

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

 

[Polk]

All that is happening in England, along with most of Europe, is that they are trying to recover from a decade of left wing dishonest handling of their economies.

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

Ayup. And to think, a little bit of inflation in Germany could resolve much of these problems.

 

[Avatar4321]

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

Ayup. And to think, a little bit of inflation in Germany could resolve much of these problems.

So now we want inflation in Germany? Because we all know that nothing could possibly go wrong because of inflation in Germany right?

 

[Polk]

It would be beneficial for the Eurozone economies (and therefore positive for the global economy as a whole).

 

[Avatar4321]

And how would inflation benefit germans?

 

[8537]

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

Ayup. And to think, a little bit of inflation in Germany could resolve much of these problems.

So now we want inflation in Germany? Because we all know that nothing could possibly go wrong because of inflation in Germany right?

Yes, we want inflation in Germany. The ECB wants inflation across the entire European Union - in fact, it's their top policy function.

 

[Polk]

A large portion of the German economy is based on exports. A massive decline in consumption through the rest of the Eurozone is bad for German firms. And that's assuming the lack of growth won't result in the breakup of the Euro.

 

[pgm]

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

Yes.

My point is that Europe is not in trouble because of years of leftist rule. Europe is in trouble because you have many diverse countries with diverse problems and causes of problems trying to unify on under a single system.

Italy is also in a situation that is essentially a bank run. It's in worse fiscal shape and Berlusconi's record has been pretty laughable, but it was nowhere near default until investors started demanding high interest rates.

 

[8537]

Spain had a left-wing prime minister and a budget surplus and low debt before the financial crisis. Italy had a right-wing prime minister and a low budget deficit (but high debt) before the crisis. Both countries are in trouble right now, despite being in a very different situation than Greece or even England.

Spain's in trouble almost exclusively because people have decided that Spain is in trouble. There is very little balance sheet problem in Spain relative to other nations - what's killing them is primarily the national equivalent of bank panic.

Yes.

My point is that Europe is not in trouble because of years of leftist rule. Europe is in trouble because you have many diverse countries with diverse problems and causes of problems trying to unify on under a single system.

Yes! And it all worked so well until, well...Until it stopped working so well. Then it didn't work so well.

<to be fair, I still think the idea behind a monetary union makes sense, it just needs to have some form of fiscal union as well, imho.>

Italy is also in a situation that is essentially a bank run. It's in worse fiscal shape and Berlusconi's record has been pretty laughable, but it was nowhere near default until investors started demanding high interest rates.

Agreed.

 

[pgm]

Yes! And it all worked so well until, well...Until it stopped working so well. Then it didn't work so well.

<to be fair, I still think the idea behind a monetary union makes sense, it just needs to have some form of fiscal union as well, imho.>

Yeah, we're in complete agreement.