Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[JRK]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Yes you have. Iraq like Yugoslavia was created by the Treaty of Versailles. At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together. With the death of the dictator Tito and the fall of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia blew apart finally resulting in the bloody wars between Croatia and Bosnia.

Iraq is a power keg waiting to blow. Sadaam's iron fist control held the country together. Now you have a rather weak central government backed up by the US military. Iran, the only real winner in the Iraqi war is committed to extending it's influence into Iraq.

I would hardly call maintaining a permanent military presence in Iraq and sacrificing American lives to support Iraq in all internal and external wars a success.

62% of the iraqi people voted in there last election 2010
we will have at the moxt 10,000 troops there in 2012, maybe none
Those kids who went there by ther choice give there lives by there choice, for this country
your thread has nothing in it but an opinion
I am sorry you feel that way and ignore the facts as they are

Saddam killed close to if not more than 1 milllion of his own people
thats an iron fist this world has not seen
Hitler killed millions
I guess thats the iron fist you were to referring to

 

[idb]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Yes you have. Iraq like Yugoslavia was created by the Treaty of Versailles. At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together. With the death of the dictator Tito and the fall of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia blew apart finally resulting in the bloody wars between Croatia and Bosnia.

Iraq is a power keg waiting to blow. Sadaam's iron fist control held the country together. Now you have a rather weak central government backed up by the US military. Iran, the only real winner in the Iraqi war is committed to extending it's influence into Iraq.

I would hardly call maintaining a permanent military presence in Iraq and sacrificing American lives to support Iraq in all internal and external wars a success.

62% of the iraqi people voted in there last election 2010
we will have at the moxt 10,000 troops there in 2012, maybe none
Those kids who went there by ther choice give there lives by there choice, for this country
your thread has nothing in it but an opinion
I am sorry you feel that way and ignore the facts as they are

Saddam killed close to if not more than 1 milllion of his own people
thats an iron fist this world has not seen
Hitler killed millions
I guess thats the iron fist you were to referring to

62%?
That's way less than when Saddam was in power... BBC NEWS | Middle East | Saddam 'wins 100% of vote'

 

[idb]

It's a travesty that the US saw fit to remove what was surely the most popular adminstration on the planet!

Saddam Wins 100 Percent in Referendum
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi President Saddam Hussein won 100 percent of votes in a referendum for a new term in office, official results showed on Wednesday.

Saddam's top deputy Izzat Ibrahim, reading official results at a news conference in Baghdad, said turnout was also 100 percent in Tuesday's referendum.

Nearly 12 million Iraqis were eligible to answer a simple "Yes" or "No" for another seven-year term for Saddam, who has ruled Iraq for 23 years through the tight grip of the military and police.

The authorities had urged voters to turn out in force to show massive support for Saddam in the face of U.S. threats of military action and President Bush's declared desire to remove him from power.

Iraq - Saddam Wins 100 Percent in Referendum with 100 Percent Turnout - 11,454,638 say yes, 0 say no

So much for democracy, eh?

 

[NoNukes]

The war isn't about oil, the war is about terrorism. But without oil we wouldn't be in the middle east and we wouldn't be the target of middle eastern terrorists. We are between despots and religious fanatics, I'm not seeing a win in that.

JRK and the Republicans want to use the military to secure oil and then go hunt down every nut job that attacks us. Democrats want to use the military to secure oil then sit there and let them attack us. I am saying there is a better way...

The war has nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing to do with 9/11.

The better way is alternative fuel sources. Prepare today for the future.

Saddam killed 1 million people
Saddam had 6500 munitions that were WMDs according to the UN, we found about 500
Saddam had 800 ltrs of anthrax we have not found, according to the UN
Saddam had control of 550 metric tons of yellow cake until we inveded 2003
by the way, why did ethanol fail?
alternative fuel?
not about terror?

One more thing, the 93 WTC bombing was done by a man who was a Iraqi citizen

now what do you have to add tho that?
terror?
ot about terror

do your DD you would see that iraq supplies 3% of the worlds oil

So, you are denying that America's interest in the middle east stems from oil?
9/11 was done by Saudis, why did Bush not attack saudi Arabia?
You are denying that we need to head towards alternative energy sources. You are full of denial.

 

[sparky]

well folks, what say we dig this thread up in 2021?

~S~

 

[NoNukes]

well folks, what say we dig this thread up in 2021?

~S~

Good idea.

 

[OODA_Loop]

At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together.

It doesn't work in the US today.

 

[JRK]

The war has nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing to do with 9/11.

The better way is alternative fuel sources. Prepare today for the future.

Saddam killed 1 million people
Saddam had 6500 munitions that were WMDs according to the UN, we found about 500
Saddam had 800 ltrs of anthrax we have not found, according to the UN
Saddam had control of 550 metric tons of yellow cake until we inveded 2003
by the way, why did ethanol fail?
alternative fuel?
not about terror?

One more thing, the 93 WTC bombing was done by a man who was a Iraqi citizen

now what do you have to add tho that?
terror?
ot about terror

do your DD you would see that iraq supplies 3% of the worlds oil

So, you are denying that America's interest in the middle east stems from oil?
9/11 was done by Saudis, why did Bush not attack saudi Arabia?
You are denying that we need to head towards alternative energy sources. You are full of denial.

sing your logic then we did the right thing invading Iraq. The person who did the first WTC bombing in 93 was an Iraqi citizen
Denial?
There is nothing but information in that thread.
Ethanol failed
Obama gave GM 50 billion of our wealth and the they cannot give the volt away still

What does Iraq suppling 3% of the worlds oil or have to do with denial, in fact i am a firm supporter of nuclear energy as well as the oil shale we have in abundance right here in this country. Obama is the one holding that up.

Understanding a liberal is so hard for us that live in realville. Stop an re read mu thread
its just information, thats all
how many people Saddam killed
Info on WMDs
how much oil that Iraq supplies the world

etc....

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK continues fail in this OP: nothing new, nothing valid, same old rightwing progressive neo-con failed talking points. Move on, JRK.

 

[JRK]

The war has nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing to do with 9/11.

The better way is alternative fuel sources. Prepare today for the future.

Saddam killed 1 million people
Saddam had 6500 munitions that were WMDs according to the UN, we found about 500
Saddam had 800 ltrs of anthrax we have not found, according to the UN
Saddam had control of 550 metric tons of yellow cake until we inveded 2003
by the way, why did ethanol fail?
alternative fuel?
not about terror?

One more thing, the 93 WTC bombing was done by a man who was a Iraqi citizen

now what do you have to add tho that?
terror?
ot about terror

do your DD you would see that iraq supplies 3% of the worlds oil

So, you are denying that America's interest in the middle east stems from oil?
9/11 was done by Saudis, why did Bush not attack saudi Arabia?
You are denying that we need to head towards alternative energy sources. You are full of denial.

using your logic then we did the right thing invading Iraq. The person who did the first WTC bombing in 93 was an Iraqi citizen
Denial?
There is nothing but information in that thread.
Ethanol failed
Obama gave GM 50 billion of our wealth and the they cannot give the volt away still

What does Iraq suppling 3% of the worlds oil or have to do with denial, in fact i am a firm supporter of nuclear energy as well as the oil shale we have in abundance right here in this country. Obama is the one holding that up.

Understanding a liberal is so hard for us that live in realville. Stop an re read my thread
its just information, thats all
how many people Saddam killed
Info on WMDs
how much oil that Iraq supplies the world

etc....

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK, you are making your readers' eyes bleed. Stop the failed talking points and give us something.

 

[JRK]

well folks, what say we dig this thread up in 2021?

~S~

Good idea.

I have no issue with that, I pray I will be here to see it

 

[GHook93]

(1) No WMD: We went in on faulty intelligence of WMD!

(2) No Iran Polarizing Force:Sadam was a bad man, but he created a polarizing force to the Ayatollahs in Iran! That polarizing force was deperately needed. By weaking Sadam in first Iraq War to save a very very ungrateful Kuwait and then knocking him out in Iraq II, we only helped the Ayatollahs in Iran nothing more.

(3) Iran Victory:Iran is taking over and is the main influencing force in Iraq. When ASSSSad in Syria goes down in is replace with an antiIran Sunni government, Iran will concentrate on Iraq. We created a perfect situation for Iran.

(4) Cost of War in Dollars and Lives:The war in Iraq cost 4K+ US lives and billions of dollars and we are getting nothing for it. Not even oil contracts!

(5) Emboldened Iran: Since the Iraq war has been such a long mess, even Iran knows we aren't going to do anything militarily against them. Not even a no fly zone, naval embargo, Kosovo style bombing raids. Nothing! It has emboldened our true enemy in Iran.

(6) Iraqi Theocracy: The fragile democracy is turning into a theocracy! It won't be long before the Sunnis, Christians (who are getting ethnically cleansed) and Kurds are completely knocked out of the government and the power is solely with the Shia majority.

(7) Christian Holocaust: Christians are getting slaughtered and ethnically cleansed from Iraq. They were a small minority, now they are nearly extincted!

(8) Coming Civil War: We temporarily stablized the country. As soon as we leave, hell between the Sunnis and Shia will take place. Shortly after that the Kurds will justifiably cause trouble by declaring Kurdistan independent. Heck it's run like an independent country now (own government, own border, collects independent taxes, own police force, own military, own currency etc). They are buying their time. US leaves, Sunni and Shia civil war starts, Kurds leave!

(9) Hotbed for Extremism: It keeps happening. We fight to save Muslims (Kosovo, Lebanon, Afghanistan-Soviet war, Somolia, Kuwait etc) and they always become antiAmerican, antiWestern theocratic, Islamic hotbeds! Iraq will be no different.

(10) Left Afghanistan Cold: We were attacked by Afghanistan and that is the country we should have been blowing to pieces. It got ignored for Iraq.

(11) Iraq lost us world support: Now that 9/11 tenth anverisary has come and gone, not sure people remember the world support we had. Everyone and their brother was up for invading and kicking the shit out of Afghanistan! We had major world support on the war on terror! That ended with the invasion of Iraq!


Iraq will go down as a failed campaign! We provided we could go in and kick ass, but installing a government of our choosing is a failed mission! If we want to take out dictator armies so be it, but nation building is a tough task. Heck building a nation that isn't at war and has no terrorist or crime problems is a tough job!

 

[JRK]

(1) No WMD: We went in on faulty intelligence of WMD!

(2) No Iran Polarizing Force:Sadam was a bad man, but he created a polarizing force to the Ayatollahs in Iran! That polarizing force was deperately needed. By weaking Sadam in first Iraq War to save a very very ungrateful Kuwait and then knocking him out in Iraq II, we only helped the Ayatollahs in Iran nothing more.

(3) Iran Victory:Iran is taking over and is the main influencing force in Iraq. When ASSSSad in Syria goes down in is replace with an antiIran Sunni government, Iran will concentrate on Iraq. We created a perfect situation for Iran.

(4) Cost of War in Dollars and Lives:The war in Iraq cost 4K+ US lives and billions of dollars and we are getting nothing for it. Not even oil contracts!

(5) Emboldened Iran: Since the Iraq war has been such a long mess, even Iran knows we aren't going to do anything militarily against them. Not even a no fly zone, naval embargo, Kosovo style bombing raids. Nothing! It has emboldened our true enemy in Iran.

(6) Iraqi Theocracy: The fragile democracy is turning into a theocracy! It won't be long before the Sunnis, Christians (who are getting ethnically cleansed) and Kurds are completely knocked out of the government and the power is solely with the Shia majority.

(7) Christian Holocaust: Christians are getting slaughtered and ethnically cleansed from Iraq. They were a small minority, now they are nearly extincted!

(8) Coming Civil War: We temporarily stablized the country. As soon as we leave, hell between the Sunnis and Shia will take place. Shortly after that the Kurds will justifiably cause trouble by declaring Kurdistan independent. Heck it's run like an independent country now (own government, own border, collects independent taxes, own police force, own military, own currency etc). They are buying their time. US leaves, Sunni and Shia civil war starts, Kurds leave!

(9) Hotbed for Extremism: It keeps happening. We fight to save Muslims (Kosovo, Lebanon, Afghanistan-Soviet war, Somolia, Kuwait etc) and they always become antiAmerican, antiWestern theocratic, Islamic hotbeds! Iraq will be no different.

(10) Left Afghanistan Cold: We were attacked by Afghanistan and that is the country we should have been blowing to pieces. It got ignored for Iraq.

(11) Iraq lost us world support: Now that 9/11 tenth anverisary has come and gone, not sure people remember the world support we had. Everyone and their brother was up for invading and kicking the shit out of Afghanistan! We had major world support on the war on terror! That ended with the invasion of Iraq!


Iraq will go down as a failed campaign! We provided we could go in and kick ass, but installing a government of our choosing is a failed mission! If we want to take out dictator armies so be it, but nation building is a tough task. Heck building a nation that isn't at war and has no terrorist or crime problems is a tough job!

1) what do you call this if not WMDs?
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
let us add this

Quote, July 7, 2008: "At Iraq's request, the US military this year transferred hundreds of metric tons of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada in a secret, weeks-long operation, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

The 550 metric tons of uranium, which was sold to a Canadian company, was moved by truck convoy to Baghdad's "Green Zone," then flown by military aircraft to a third country where it was put on a ship for Canada, said Bryan Whitman, the spokesman.

The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
evidence-of-wmds-presence-in-iraq.htm

2 and 3 have nothing to back p what ever your trying to say, makes no sense

4) cost about the same the failed stimulus did and in the long run we will get all of that money back with bases being close in Saudi as well as far less money to support the UNs efforts there, a long time yes, but in time
CBO: Eight Years Of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act | Fox News

5) Means nothing, see next point (its babble, your making no sense)

6) 62% of there total population voted in the last election

7) you have proof? by the way Christians are getting killed in this country by the thousands also. more people killed in this country by violence than in Iraq from 03 to the present day

8) See # 6, just opinions, #6 is a fact

9) one of the reasons we went there, it became a hot bed of death for those extremist
(fact)

10) That war had to be fought out of Iraq, thats the one thing the left never got. We are doing exactly what we needed to do both places, (opinions)

11) 44 countries invaded with us, are you joking? United StatesUnited States
Iraq
Peshmerga
Awakening Councils
Withdrawn forces:
United Kingdom (2003–11)
Australia (2003–09)
Poland (2003–08)
Republic of Korea (2003–08)
Italy (2003–06)
Georgia (2003–08)
Ukraine (2003–08)
Netherlands (2003–05)
Spain (2003–04)
MNF–I (2004–10)
and 30 other countries in the Multi-National Force

PLEASE DO YOUR DD BEFORE STATING IN ACCURATE AND UN TRUE THREADS ABOUT THIS VICTORY
THANK YOU

 

[JakeStarkey]

JRK did not adequately address one of Ghook's points: mere, failed talking points.

 

[Flopper]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Yes you have. Iraq like Yugoslavia was created by the Treaty of Versailles. At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together. With the death of the dictator Tito and the fall of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia blew apart finally resulting in the bloody wars between Croatia and Bosnia.

Iraq is a power keg waiting to blow. Sadaam's iron fist control held the country together. Now you have a rather weak central government backed up by the US military. Iran, the only real winner in the Iraqi war is committed to extending it's influence into Iraq.

I would hardly call maintaining a permanent military presence in Iraq and sacrificing American lives to support Iraq in all internal and external wars a success.

62% of the iraqi people voted in there last election 2010
we will have at the moxt 10,000 troops there in 2012, maybe none
Those kids who went there by ther choice give there lives by there choice, for this country
your thread has nothing in it but an opinion
I am sorry you feel that way and ignore the facts as they are

Saddam killed close to if not more than 1 milllion of his own people
thats an iron fist this world has not seen
Hitler killed millions
I guess thats the iron fist you were to referring to

The purpose of the American military is not to invade nations that posed no threat to us in order to kill dictators and build nations. We have now firmly entrenched ourselves in the Middle East. When fighting between Iraq and Iran once again resume, we will find ourselves in the middle of it.

The United States can no longer afford, politically or monetarily to be the policemen of the world.

 

[GHook93]

I tend to fall on the right side of the equation (but not the Ron Paul side if you were wondering), but admitting a failed policy is a failed policy doesn't make you a leftist it just right!

(1) No WMD: We went in on faulty intelligence of WMD!

(2) No Iran Polarizing Force:Sadam was a bad man, but he created a polarizing force to the Ayatollahs in Iran! That polarizing force was deperately needed. By weaking Sadam in first Iraq War to save a very very ungrateful Kuwait and then knocking him out in Iraq II, we only helped the Ayatollahs in Iran nothing more.

(3) Iran Victory:Iran is taking over and is the main influencing force in Iraq. When ASSSSad in Syria goes down in is replace with an antiIran Sunni government, Iran will concentrate on Iraq. We created a perfect situation for Iran.

(4) Cost of War in Dollars and Lives:The war in Iraq cost 4K+ US lives and billions of dollars and we are getting nothing for it. Not even oil contracts!

(5) Emboldened Iran: Since the Iraq war has been such a long mess, even Iran knows we aren't going to do anything militarily against them. Not even a no fly zone, naval embargo, Kosovo style bombing raids. Nothing! It has emboldened our true enemy in Iran.

(6) Iraqi Theocracy: The fragile democracy is turning into a theocracy! It won't be long before the Sunnis, Christians (who are getting ethnically cleansed) and Kurds are completely knocked out of the government and the power is solely with the Shia majority.

(7) Christian Holocaust: Christians are getting slaughtered and ethnically cleansed from Iraq. They were a small minority, now they are nearly extincted!

(8) Coming Civil War: We temporarily stablized the country. As soon as we leave, hell between the Sunnis and Shia will take place. Shortly after that the Kurds will justifiably cause trouble by declaring Kurdistan independent. Heck it's run like an independent country now (own government, own border, collects independent taxes, own police force, own military, own currency etc). They are buying their time. US leaves, Sunni and Shia civil war starts, Kurds leave!

(9) Hotbed for Extremism: It keeps happening. We fight to save Muslims (Kosovo, Lebanon, Afghanistan-Soviet war, Somolia, Kuwait etc) and they always become antiAmerican, antiWestern theocratic, Islamic hotbeds! Iraq will be no different.

(10) Left Afghanistan Cold: We were attacked by Afghanistan and that is the country we should have been blowing to pieces. It got ignored for Iraq.

(11) Iraq lost us world support: Now that 9/11 tenth anverisary has come and gone, not sure people remember the world support we had. Everyone and their brother was up for invading and kicking the shit out of Afghanistan! We had major world support on the war on terror! That ended with the invasion of Iraq!


Iraq will go down as a failed campaign! We provided we could go in and kick ass, but installing a government of our choosing is a failed mission! If we want to take out dictator armies so be it, but nation building is a tough task. Heck building a nation that isn't at war and has no terrorist or crime problems is a tough job!

1) what do you call this if not WMDs?
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
let us add this

Quote, July 7, 2008: "At Iraq's request, the US military this year transferred hundreds of metric tons of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada in a secret, weeks-long operation, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

The 550 metric tons of uranium, which was sold to a Canadian company, was moved by truck convoy to Baghdad's "Green Zone," then flown by military aircraft to a third country where it was put on a ship for Canada, said Bryan Whitman, the spokesman.

The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
evidence-of-wmds-presence-in-iraq.htm

2 and 3 have nothing to back p what ever your trying to say, makes no sense

4) cost about the same the failed stimulus did and in the long run we will get all of that money back with bases being close in Saudi as well as far less money to support the UNs efforts there, a long time yes, but in time
CBO: Eight Years Of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act | Fox News

5) Means nothing, see next point (its babble, your making no sense)

6) 62% of there total population voted in the last election

7) you have proof? by the way Christians are getting killed in this country by the thousands also. more people killed in this country by violence than in Iraq from 03 to the present day

8) See # 6, just opinions, #6 is a fact

9) one of the reasons we went there, it became a hot bed of death for those extremist
(fact)

10) That war had to be fought out of Iraq, thats the one thing the left never got. We are doing exactly what we needed to do both places, (opinions)

11) 44 countries invaded with us, are you joking? United StatesUnited States
Iraq
Peshmerga
Awakening Councils
Withdrawn forces:
United Kingdom (2003–11)
Australia (2003–09)
Poland (2003–08)
Republic of Korea (2003–08)
Italy (2003–06)
Georgia (2003–08)
Ukraine (2003–08)
Netherlands (2003–05)
Spain (2003–04)
MNF–I (2004–10)
and 30 other countries in the Multi-National Force

PLEASE DO YOUR DD BEFORE STATING IN ACCURATE AND UN TRUE THREADS ABOUT THIS VICTORY
THANK YOU

 

[BlindBoo]

So you can just ignore document after document, post after post that says your wrong?

That's the very definition of willful ignorance JRK.

Still willfully ignorant, eh JRK?

I doubt the use of your sophomoric projection (taking your side's fault and blaming it upon your political opponent wrongfully) will carry much weight, Nic-Driver, with American citizens. The left cannot hide everything the Clinton State Department of 1997-2000 said and did on Iraq, although it's done its level best to omit and obfuscate everything they did. Concealing the evidence that Bill Clinton's State Department DID advocate and procure sanctions against Iraq by Madeline Albright is sooooooooo like convicted National Archives robber, Sandy Berger, Hillary Clinton's recent campaign manager.

Robber? Oh you mean when he left there with copies of some documents by accident?

In April 2005, Berger pled guilty to a misdemeanor charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified material from the National Archives in Washington. According to the lead prosecutor in the case Berger only took copies of classified information and no original material was destroyed.

Sandy Berger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh and who on the left is trying to hide the children killing sanctions place on Iraq?

 

[JRK]

Yes you have. Iraq like Yugoslavia was created by the Treaty of Versailles. At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together. With the death of the dictator Tito and the fall of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia blew apart finally resulting in the bloody wars between Croatia and Bosnia.

Iraq is a power keg waiting to blow. Sadaam's iron fist control held the country together. Now you have a rather weak central government backed up by the US military. Iran, the only real winner in the Iraqi war is committed to extending it's influence into Iraq.

I would hardly call maintaining a permanent military presence in Iraq and sacrificing American lives to support Iraq in all internal and external wars a success.

62% of the iraqi people voted in there last election 2010
we will have at the moxt 10,000 troops there in 2012, maybe none
Those kids who went there by ther choice give there lives by there choice, for this country
your thread has nothing in it but an opinion
I am sorry you feel that way and ignore the facts as they are

Saddam killed close to if not more than 1 milllion of his own people
thats an iron fist this world has not seen
Hitler killed millions
I guess thats the iron fist you were to referring to

The purpose of the American military is not to invade nations that posed no threat to us in order to kill dictators and build nations. We have now firmly entrenched ourselves in the Middle East. When fighting between Iraq and Iran once again resume, we will find ourselves in the middle of it.

The United States can no longer afford, politically or monetarily to be the policemen of the world.

Why do you keep saying that we are entrenched in the ME when we will be down to less than 10k people in Iraq?
As far as Afghanistan goes you really think Iran is going to stick there nose over there just so they can get it cut off?

Iran and Iraq is not going to war
they neither can afford it to start with and after 9-11 the world has enough ME crap
If we are to no longer be as you say we should, then we did the right thing by getting the UN out of that mess
It got us out of it also

 

[JRK]

I tend to fall on the right side of the equation (but not the Ron Paul side if you were wondering), but admitting a failed policy is a failed policy doesn't make you a leftist it just right!

(1) No WMD: We went in on faulty intelligence of WMD!

(2) No Iran Polarizing Force:Sadam was a bad man, but he created a polarizing force to the Ayatollahs in Iran! That polarizing force was deperately needed. By weaking Sadam in first Iraq War to save a very very ungrateful Kuwait and then knocking him out in Iraq II, we only helped the Ayatollahs in Iran nothing more.

(3) Iran Victory:Iran is taking over and is the main influencing force in Iraq. When ASSSSad in Syria goes down in is replace with an antiIran Sunni government, Iran will concentrate on Iraq. We created a perfect situation for Iran.

(4) Cost of War in Dollars and Lives:The war in Iraq cost 4K+ US lives and billions of dollars and we are getting nothing for it. Not even oil contracts!

(5) Emboldened Iran: Since the Iraq war has been such a long mess, even Iran knows we aren't going to do anything militarily against them. Not even a no fly zone, naval embargo, Kosovo style bombing raids. Nothing! It has emboldened our true enemy in Iran.

(6) Iraqi Theocracy: The fragile democracy is turning into a theocracy! It won't be long before the Sunnis, Christians (who are getting ethnically cleansed) and Kurds are completely knocked out of the government and the power is solely with the Shia majority.

(7) Christian Holocaust: Christians are getting slaughtered and ethnically cleansed from Iraq. They were a small minority, now they are nearly extincted!

(8) Coming Civil War: We temporarily stablized the country. As soon as we leave, hell between the Sunnis and Shia will take place. Shortly after that the Kurds will justifiably cause trouble by declaring Kurdistan independent. Heck it's run like an independent country now (own government, own border, collects independent taxes, own police force, own military, own currency etc). They are buying their time. US leaves, Sunni and Shia civil war starts, Kurds leave!

(9) Hotbed for Extremism: It keeps happening. We fight to save Muslims (Kosovo, Lebanon, Afghanistan-Soviet war, Somolia, Kuwait etc) and they always become antiAmerican, antiWestern theocratic, Islamic hotbeds! Iraq will be no different.

(10) Left Afghanistan Cold: We were attacked by Afghanistan and that is the country we should have been blowing to pieces. It got ignored for Iraq.

(11) Iraq lost us world support: Now that 9/11 tenth anverisary has come and gone, not sure people remember the world support we had. Everyone and their brother was up for invading and kicking the shit out of Afghanistan! We had major world support on the war on terror! That ended with the invasion of Iraq!


Iraq will go down as a failed campaign! We provided we could go in and kick ass, but installing a government of our choosing is a failed mission! If we want to take out dictator armies so be it, but nation building is a tough task. Heck building a nation that isn't at war and has no terrorist or crime problems is a tough job!

1) what do you call this if not WMDs?
Defense.gov News Article: Munitions Found in Iraq Meet WMD Criteria, Official Says
let us add this

Quote, July 7, 2008: "At Iraq's request, the US military this year transferred hundreds of metric tons of yellowcake uranium from Iraq to Canada in a secret, weeks-long operation, a Pentagon spokesman said Monday.

The 550 metric tons of uranium, which was sold to a Canadian company, was moved by truck convoy to Baghdad's "Green Zone," then flown by military aircraft to a third country where it was put on a ship for Canada, said Bryan Whitman, the spokesman.

The yellow cake was discovered by US troops after the 2003 US invasion of Iraq at the Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Facility south of Baghdad, and was placed under the control of the International Atomic Energy Agency."
evidence-of-wmds-presence-in-iraq.htm

2 and 3 have nothing to back p what ever your trying to say, makes no sense

4) cost about the same the failed stimulus did and in the long run we will get all of that money back with bases being close in Saudi as well as far less money to support the UNs efforts there, a long time yes, but in time
CBO: Eight Years Of Iraq War Cost Less Than Stimulus Act | Fox News

5) Means nothing, see next point (its babble, your making no sense)

6) 62% of there total population voted in the last election

7) you have proof? by the way Christians are getting killed in this country by the thousands also. more people killed in this country by violence than in Iraq from 03 to the present day

8) See # 6, just opinions, #6 is a fact

9) one of the reasons we went there, it became a hot bed of death for those extremist
(fact)

10) That war had to be fought out of Iraq, thats the one thing the left never got. We are doing exactly what we needed to do both places, (opinions)

11) 44 countries invaded with us, are you joking? United StatesUnited States
Iraq
Peshmerga
Awakening Councils
Withdrawn forces:
United Kingdom (2003–11)
Australia (2003–09)
Poland (2003–08)
Republic of Korea (2003–08)
Italy (2003–06)
Georgia (2003–08)
Ukraine (2003–08)
Netherlands (2003–05)
Spain (2003–04)
MNF–I (2004–10)
and 30 other countries in the Multi-National Force

PLEASE DO YOUR DD BEFORE STATING IN ACCURATE AND UN TRUE THREADS ABOUT THIS VICTORY
THANK YOU

what has failed here?
and I do support the fair tax