Why would anyone continue to claim the iraqi war was a failure?

[kaz]

America is interested in the middle east because of oil.

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

 

[Contumacious]

It may have had something to do with oil.

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.

OK then, provide EVIDENCE that Saddam was suicidal.

Provide EVIDENCE that he preferred "terrorism" to taking care of his numerous women;

Provide EVIDENCE that Iraq granted Kuwait its independence

Don't come back with repugnant warmongering bullshit.

I want FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

[JRK]

It may have had something to do with oil.

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.

My point is to first show that Saddam had the very things he said he did not have, he was lying to the UN
After 9-11 those lies were no longer acceptable

what evry-one forgot in this mess is the speech Hans Blix gave late Jan 2003. Saddam own documets shown he had 6500 munitions missing (we found over 500 of them) as well as a large stock pile of anthrax and nerve gas that as well as the 6000 munitions have never been found
It amazes me that the CIA and GWB said about the same thing, we remeber them (some do) as liars

This speech is the smoking gun. It validated the very things we had been saying as well as the finding og 550 metric tons of yellow cake

my goal has been to de bunk the lies

What no-one discusses is no 9-11 from deficts to the Iraq invasion, much of this is mute

The left used these events with the presses help to politically destroy the GOP. In retrospect it is a good thing, we got Obama and the country has seen what real change from the GWB years lokks like

there was allot of good decsions made with Saddam after 9-11. its sad, and I pray this world will find a way to live in peace
but there was no rash and un thought out times with these events
Oil?
all Iraqs oil would have done was end the kick backs the UN was getting from the oil for food and drive the price of gas down

 

[kaz]

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.

OK then, provide EVIDENCE that Saddam was suicidal.

Provide EVIDENCE that he preferred "terrorism" to taking care of his numerous women;

Provide EVIDENCE that Iraq granted Kuwait its independence

Don't come back with repugnant warmongering bullshit.

I want FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.

I'm a warmongerer who not only opposed being in Iraq, but I'm against being in the middle east at all? What are you smoking, and can I have some? Sounds like some good shit...

 

[kaz]

It may have something to do with the anthrax that has never been found
the close to 1 million Iraqis that Saddam killed
It may have to do with the lies Saddam had been telling the world
It may have something to do with the 550 metric tons of yellow cake he had control of
Oil?
Iraq supplies about 3% of the worlds oil

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.

My point is to first show that Saddam had the very things he said he did not have, he was lying to the UN
After 9-11 those lies were no longer acceptable

what evry-one forgot in this mess is the speech Hans Blix gave late Jan 2003. Saddam own documets shown he had 6500 munitions missing (we found over 500 of them) as well as a large stock pile of anthrax and nerve gas that as well as the 6000 munitions have never been found
It amazes me that the CIA and GWB said about the same thing, we remeber them (some do) as liars

This speech is the smoking gun. It validated the very things we had been saying as well as the finding og 550 metric tons of yellow cake

my goal has been to de bunk the lies

What no-one discusses is no 9-11 from deficts to the Iraq invasion, much of this is mute

The left used these events with the presses help to politically destroy the GOP. In retrospect it is a good thing, we got Obama and the country has seen what real change from the GWB years lokks like

there was allot of good decsions made with Saddam after 9-11. its sad, and I pray this world will find a way to live in peace
but there was no rash and un thought out times with these events
Oil?
all Iraqs oil would have done was end the kick backs the UN was getting from the oil for food and drive the price of gas down

I agree, but it doesn't counter anything I said.

 

[JRK]

America is interested in the middle east because of oil.

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

 

[JRK]

Arguing that Hussein wasn't a threat in the middle east is a non-starter. He clearly was. The technology is the threat far more then the stockpiles. We know he had them because he used them against Iran as well as in Kuwait and to murder his own people. This is why I don't support my own anti-war "allies." They have to keep going to this brain dead argument.

The reason not to do it is because we don't belong in the middle east at all. We have to remove our troops and not be involved in every conflict. Let them handle their own problems and let the Euros deal with it. In that way we would have fewer enemies in the world. Just because someone's a bad guy or a bully doesn't mean I need to challenge them to a fight. But to argue that Hussein wasn't a threat because we didn't find stockpiles of WMD's is just frankly retarded. You've got the right side, now argue the right reason.

My point is to first show that Saddam had the very things he said he did not have, he was lying to the UN
After 9-11 those lies were no longer acceptable

what evry-one forgot in this mess is the speech Hans Blix gave late Jan 2003. Saddam own documets shown he had 6500 munitions missing (we found over 500 of them) as well as a large stock pile of anthrax and nerve gas that as well as the 6000 munitions have never been found
It amazes me that the CIA and GWB said about the same thing, we remeber them (some do) as liars

This speech is the smoking gun. It validated the very things we had been saying as well as the finding og 550 metric tons of yellow cake

my goal has been to de bunk the lies

What no-one discusses is no 9-11 from deficts to the Iraq invasion, much of this is mute

The left used these events with the presses help to politically destroy the GOP. In retrospect it is a good thing, we got Obama and the country has seen what real change from the GWB years lokks like

there was allot of good decsions made with Saddam after 9-11. its sad, and I pray this world will find a way to live in peace
but there was no rash and un thought out times with these events
Oil?
all Iraqs oil would have done was end the kick backs the UN was getting from the oil for food and drive the price of gas down

I agree, but it doesn't counter anything I said.

I agree to dis agree

 

[Nic_Driver]

JRK is posting mere demagoguery.

And you feel he's treading on your territory?

to start with Jake is on my ignore list, Kaz you quoting him is the only reason I knew what he said
I post factual linked information
If people do not like it they can do there DD and post info that will show mine to be wrong

Which you're forced to ignore to continue with your falsehoods.

While I think you are innocent of the origin of the deciept (an assesment of your ignorance), your continued use of lies after they've been proven lies shows at least some level of deciet.

***For anyone who might be reading this thread and doesn't already know this, here it is again***

snopes.com: Yellowcake Uranium Removed from Iraq

And;

Blix Says Iraq War Was Illegal - CBS News

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iraq war illegal, says Annan

 

[JakeStarkey]

America is interested in the middle east because of oil.

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

We have less job workers today than in 2001 thanks to right wing progressivism.

 

[Full-Auto]

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

We have less job workers today than in 2001 thanks to right wing progressivism.

You missed the turn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

YOur gun jammed.

 

[kaz]

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

We have less job workers today than in 2001 thanks to right wing progressivism.

Since 2001 government in addition to controlling the energy industry has massively increased control over healthcare, financial markets and the auto industry. We added prescription drug to the medicare welfare program, increased payroll taxes, have the highest corporate tax rates in the left and have massively increased regulation on employers and corporations. Which you describe as "right wing progressivism."

Oh, and you're a "Republican." Then again so is Toro...



You're a couple of bozos...

 

[NoNukes]

America is interested in the middle east because of oil.

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

In a roundabout way, you are admitting it is about oil.

 

[kaz]

Absolutely we are. That's why we're not in places like Africa or other places with similar conflicts without oil.

The solution is free markets. Open up the US to exploration, development and refining, let companies and not government deal with securing what oil they can overseas. And let prices rise to market levels to drive change in technology and behavior. It really is that easy.

and create millions of jobs

In a roundabout way, you are admitting it is about oil.

The war isn't about oil, the war is about terrorism. But without oil we wouldn't be in the middle east and we wouldn't be the target of middle eastern terrorists. We are between despots and religious fanatics, I'm not seeing a win in that.

JRK and the Republicans want to use the military to secure oil and then go hunt down every nut job that attacks us. Democrats want to use the military to secure oil then sit there and let them attack us. I am saying there is a better way...

 

[JakeStarkey]

and create millions of jobs

We have less job workers today than in 2001 thanks to right wing progressivism.

Since 2001 government in addition to controlling the energy industry has massively increased control over healthcare, financial markets and the auto industry. We added prescription drug to the medicare welfare program, increased payroll taxes, have the highest corporate tax rates in the left and have massively increased regulation on employers and corporations. Which you describe as "right wing progressivism."

Oh, and you're a "Republican." Then again so is Toro...



You're a couple of bozos...

You are such a fool. To think your kind can competently dis Republicans. You make a statement but make no connection. The more likely reasons for the recession is out of control poorly regulated institutions throwing money every which way in the tech, dollar, oil, and housing booms.

Much more reasonable than your nonsense.

 

[kaz]

We have less job workers today than in 2001 thanks to right wing progressivism.

Since 2001 government in addition to controlling the energy industry has massively increased control over healthcare, financial markets and the auto industry. We added prescription drug to the medicare welfare program, increased payroll taxes, have the highest corporate tax rates in the left and have massively increased regulation on employers and corporations. Which you describe as "right wing progressivism."

Oh, and you're a "Republican." Then again so is Toro...



You're a couple of bozos...

You are such a fool. To think your kind can competently dis Republicans. You make a statement but make no connection. The more likely reasons for the recession is out of control poorly regulated institutions throwing money every which way in the tech, dollar, oil, and housing booms.

Much more reasonable than your nonsense.

Right, that government is increasing control over industry after industry doesn't mean we're not deregulating and that as government increases control the economy tanks more doesn't mean regulation isn't good for the economy. Oh, I'm a fool, you're a Republican, up is down and Barry is the voice of reason in DC.

Well, you are a hoot, that one's for real. Mr. Goldwater...

 

[JakeStarkey]

kaz, those institutions in the first part of the first decade of this century were very loosely regulated. You can't prove differently, because the last 25 years after Reagan was about 'privatization' and 'less regulation'. So private prisons that are horror stories, private foster care that generally has been far lower than the state orphanages, outpatient mental care that turns lose people who have no reason to be on their own, and a war outsourced to Halliburton and others than helped break the government with their run to the gold.

No, you have nothing to stand on, with everything to pull you down.

 

[NoNukes]

and create millions of jobs

In a roundabout way, you are admitting it is about oil.

The war isn't about oil, the war is about terrorism. But without oil we wouldn't be in the middle east and we wouldn't be the target of middle eastern terrorists. We are between despots and religious fanatics, I'm not seeing a win in that.

JRK and the Republicans want to use the military to secure oil and then go hunt down every nut job that attacks us. Democrats want to use the military to secure oil then sit there and let them attack us. I am saying there is a better way...

The war has nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing to do with 9/11.

The better way is alternative fuel sources. Prepare today for the future.

 

[JRK]

In a roundabout way, you are admitting it is about oil.

The war isn't about oil, the war is about terrorism. But without oil we wouldn't be in the middle east and we wouldn't be the target of middle eastern terrorists. We are between despots and religious fanatics, I'm not seeing a win in that.

JRK and the Republicans want to use the military to secure oil and then go hunt down every nut job that attacks us. Democrats want to use the military to secure oil then sit there and let them attack us. I am saying there is a better way...

The war has nothing to do with terrorism. Nothing to do with 9/11.

The better way is alternative fuel sources. Prepare today for the future.

Saddam killed 1 million people
Saddam had 6500 munitions that were WMDs according to the UN, we found about 500
Saddam had 800 ltrs of anthrax we have not found, according to the UN
Saddam had control of 550 metric tons of yellow cake until we inveded 2003
by the way, why did ethanol fail?
alternative fuel?
not about terror?

One more thing, the 93 WTC bombing was done by a man who was a Iraqi citizen

now what do you have to add tho that?
terror?
ot about terror

do your DD you would see that iraq supplies 3% of the worlds oil

 

[Flopper]

1) REMOVE SADDAM
DONE
2) STABILIZE COUNTRY
DONE
3) HAVE A REPUBLIC BORN OF THESE EVENTS
DONE

Am missing something here?

Yes you have. Iraq like Yugoslavia was created by the Treaty of Versailles. At the time there was a rather stupid idea going around that you can form a country by combining ethnic groups whose hated for each other goes back hundreds of years and they will learn to live together. With the death of the dictator Tito and the fall of the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia blew apart finally resulting in the bloody wars between Croatia and Bosnia.

Iraq is a power keg waiting to blow. Sadaam's iron fist control held the country together. Now you have a rather weak central government backed up by the US military. Iran, the only real winner in the Iraqi war is committed to extending it's influence into Iraq.

I would hardly call maintaining a permanent military presence in Iraq and sacrificing American lives to support Iraq in all internal and external wars a success.