Why would a God even need a hell?

[Mickiel]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

So more proof that the NT is bullshit. Thanks.

Well I can see and respect that its not your thing, but I kind of dig it myself;

Why You Can Believe the Bible

 

[james bond]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

 

[Taz]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

 

[james bond]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

 

[Taz]

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

 

[james bond]

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

 

[Taz]

Bible Reality Check--A Case Against Hell

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

 

[james bond]

She is correct about sheol or hades. This is a dark place where Jesus went after he died physically. We all go to sheol and wait until being judged. However, the writer doesn't realize there is another place called gehenna (hell). Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead. At physical death, our spirits are separated from our bodies. Being spiritually dead means your soul is separated from God. Once you die, then your final destination is set, but it won't be until Judgement Day that we'll be judged. The spiritually dead won't be able to rise into the sky and they'll see their perfect bodies burn in the lake of fire. Now, whether their spirits are in the body and suffer burning is not made clear, but it's not a pleasant experience. I'm not sure what happens after that. I have to think that Jesus has some fitting punishment to fit the unholiness committed by that person. Catholics believe there is place in purgatory where souls who aren't so bad can be saved. For others, such as babies who died before being baptized, they will go to limbo a less ominous place in hell. Christians think it's either one or the other and no place for Jesus to send you to do repentance for the final time. One needs guidance from more experienced readers of the Bible to understand it.

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

Theories are the spirit still lives and goes to a place called hades, a dark resting place. Birds are dinosaurs. After one dies, the spirit goes to hades and one is still conscious. Humans came from ape-humans. These are hypotheses that explain the evidence and we disagree based on what is our worldview. Our worldview aren't all facts.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

 

[Taz]

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Let me guess, you read that in a book of fiction?

"Those who do not believe in Jesus and that he died to save us become the spiritually dead."

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

Theories are the spirit still lives and goes to a place called hades, a dark resting place. Birds are dinosaurs. After one dies, the spirit goes to hades and one is still conscious. Humans came from ape-humans. These are hypotheses that explain the evidence and we disagree based on what is our worldview. Our worldview aren't all facts.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

How do you make the link between a being possibly found in a 4th dimension, and the god of the bible?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

Theories are the spirit still lives and goes to a place called hades, a dark resting place. Birds are dinosaurs. After one dies, the spirit goes to hades and one is still conscious. Humans came from ape-humans. These are hypotheses that explain the evidence and we disagree based on what is our worldview. Our worldview aren't all facts.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

How do you make the link between a being possibly found in a 4th dimension, and the god of the bible?

Actually, that's kinda easy. The Sefirot number 10, and they each control a different part of creation and the higher dimensions. Kabbalah can explain it for you, but that is some deep stuff if you do.

Sefirot - Wikipedia

Wiki gives you a rough outline of it, but if you REALLY wanna delve into the subject, I would suggest using the Sacred Texts Archive that is on the internet.

 

[james bond]

Is it really fiction? Can you disprove the spirit, i.e. that what keeps us alive, using science?

You remember that I said that I compared both evolution, includes ToE, and creation and thought creation better explained reality.

Let's theorize that there exists spirits (not ghosts) and that is what keeps us alive. Secular science has not explained how we are alive unless you have an explanation. We can't bring back someone who is dead. That's sci fi.

...

It means that when we physically die, then the spirit leaves us. Thus, we have a physically dead body. However, we assume the spirit dies, too. Whatever keeps our heart beating, oxygen going to the brain, blood and nutrients going to the cells ceases to work anymore. The personality or how they were perceived by others and any legacy that they left is gone, too. All the living can do is have memories of that person. That's what life and science tells us.

However, the Bible tells us that's not what happens. The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place. The spirit is still conscious, but does not have a body so can't go anywhere. Otherwise, how does a spirit die?

I'll stop here in order to see what you think.

Theories are the spirit still lives and goes to a place called hades, a dark resting place. Birds are dinosaurs. After one dies, the spirit goes to hades and one is still conscious. Humans came from ape-humans. These are hypotheses that explain the evidence and we disagree based on what is our worldview. Our worldview aren't all facts.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

How do you make the link between a being possibly found in a 4th dimension, and the god of the bible?

Perhaps it's difficult for you to understand because you are not treating the spiritual lving and dead it as a theory. You only live twice. Many people believe in an afterlife.

The link goes back to the title of this thread. Jesus said that hell was “prepared” for Satan and the demons (Matthew 25:41). It is a just punishment for the wicked one. Hell, or the lake of fire, will also be the destination for those who reject Christ and were evil people. Hell isn't found on earth. It doesn't appear to be in our universe. It seems to be where God is in the heavenly realm.

 

[Mickiel]

Theories are the spirit still lives and goes to a place called hades, a dark resting place. Birds are dinosaurs. After one dies, the spirit goes to hades and one is still conscious. Humans came from ape-humans. These are hypotheses that explain the evidence and we disagree based on what is our worldview. Our worldview aren't all facts.

"The spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol or hades, a dark resting place." And it's total hearsay, none of the big things in the bible can be proven.

Science at least is still looking, they don't just settle on some fairy tales for no reason.

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

How do you make the link between a being possibly found in a 4th dimension, and the god of the bible?

Perhaps it's difficult for you to understand because you are not treating the spiritual lving and dead it as a theory. You only live twice. Many people believe in an afterlife.

The link goes back to the title of this thread. Jesus said that hell was “prepared” for Satan and the demons (Matthew 25:41). It is a just punishment for the wicked one. Hell, or the lake of fire, will also be the destination for those who reject Christ and were evil people. Hell isn't found on earth. It doesn't appear to be in our universe. It seems to be where God is in the heavenly realm.

Those who reject Christ and the evil humans , actually " Need" Christ more than you believers do. You cannot remove them from the incredible grace of God. I am glad that you have absolutely nothing to do with their salvation.

 

[Gracie]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

We are already in hell. Heaven is absence of all this bullshit.

"On earth as it is in heaven", when the time comes.

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

We are already in hell. Heaven is absence of all this bullshit.

"On earth as it is in heaven", when the time comes.

Amen. Very well stated! Nothing like the Christian hell was even remotely mentioned or suggested to Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham , Lot, Moses, David , Solomon , Cain , or even the people of Sodom. There is no mention of the creation of hell in the entire NT , or even the purpose of it. And its nowhere in the entire OT; is that not strange? Hell is not explained and no one is " Threatened with it as well."

 

[Mickiel]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

We are already in hell. Heaven is absence of all this bullshit.

"On earth as it is in heaven", when the time comes.

Yes, the Christians want us to live in hell all our lives , then die and go to an even worse hell.

Good grief.

 

[james bond]

If you state that, then it's like a creation scientist saying that we didn't evolve from a single cell fairy tale. A theory has to have some assumption or hypothesis based on the evidence of what we find exists. After all, no one has shown that a single cell can become a person or an animal. We did not see this. Thus, from the evidence we assume in evolution that eukaryotic cells evolved after millions of years into animal, plant and fungi mitochondria cells.

Thus, based on the Bible creation scientists accept that our spirit still lives and goes to a place called sheol, a dark resting place. Then, they look for the evidence just like the evo scientists did. We find through neurology that people are conscious of their own death.

"Consciousness after death

Death just became even more scary: scientists say people are aware they’re dead because their consciousness continues to work after the body has stopped showing signs of life.

That means that, theoretically, someone may even hear their own death being announced by medics.

The claim was made by Dr Sam Parnia, director of critical care and resuscitation research at NYU Langone School of Medicine in New York City.

He and his team are looking at people who suffered cardiac arrest, technically died, but were later revived. It’s the largest study of its type ever carried out.

Some of those studied say they had awareness of full conversations and seeing things that were going on around them, even after they were pronounced dead.

These accounts were then verified by the medical and nursing staff who were present at the time.

Death is defined as the point at which the heart no longer beats, and blood flow to the brain is cut
off. Dr Sam Parnia said: “Technically, that's how you get the time of death – it's all based on the moment when the heart stops.


“Once that happens, blood no longer circulates to the brain, which means brain function halts almost instantaneously.

“You lose all your brain stem reflexes – your gag reflex, your pupil reflex, all that is gone.”

However, there’s evidence to suggest that there’s a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

In 2013 researchers at the University of Michigan looked at the electrical signals inside the brains of nine anaesthetised rats having an induced heart attack."

pediatric neurology: Consciousness after death

What about sheol or hades? Hades is a place under the earth or a grave for our spirits. (Our physical bodies are buried or burned and put in an urn, scattered or transformed.)

Where is it? First, it's not those pits that release gases and ignited and continue to burn for a long time. That describes hell, and is shaped like the hell in Dante's illustrations, but hell isn't on earth despite what you have heard. This I agree is hearsay or mythology even though the fiery pits are real. However, there are various places on Earth where people think they are the portals to hell. These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. These are the places which we think is hades. We don't know the exact location, but it's deep underground.

Evolution is called a theory for a reason.

Consciousness after death has never been proven to be any thing other than the brain taking a little longer to shut off.

"These portals have been explored and they lead to a dark mysterious place that keep going and going until one can't continue. " This has never been proven.

So basically, everything you've put forward can only by classified under "just a theory". Not fact.

Science isn't about proofs, but who has the best theory. Math is about proofs.

Consciousness can't go beyond the line between life and death because we don't know what happens after one dies or passes the point of no return. We only know what we know about consciousness because these people came back to life. In the future, we may find some way or an experiment to know but not now.

If we are discussing creation science, then it's a theory. Facts are something we can all use such as the sky is blue. The earth is a sphere. Math was invented by humans, but is found in nature.

One of the areas, creation scientists are looking at is whether there is a 4th dimension and how spacetime is represented. We understand 2-dimensions very well because we are 3-dimensional beings. We see things in 2-D, but our brains convert it to 3-D. However, we have a harder time envisioning 4-D objects. Not impossible, but not intuitive. We are doing experiments with the LHC trying to see if there is a gravitron. If the gravitron particle is discovered, then it is likely that the 4th dimension exists. This is where I believe God exists.
Thus, we assume that a hell exists for the angels who rose up against God and are fallen. This may or may not be the same hell (gehenna) that God will create after Judgement Day for human spirits or the spiritually dead. It is likely that it will be in the 4th dimension.

How do you make the link between a being possibly found in a 4th dimension, and the god of the bible?

Perhaps it's difficult for you to understand because you are not treating the spiritual lving and dead it as a theory. You only live twice. Many people believe in an afterlife.

The link goes back to the title of this thread. Jesus said that hell was “prepared” for Satan and the demons (Matthew 25:41). It is a just punishment for the wicked one. Hell, or the lake of fire, will also be the destination for those who reject Christ and were evil people. Hell isn't found on earth. It doesn't appear to be in our universe. It seems to be where God is in the heavenly realm.

Those who reject Christ and the evil humans , actually " Need" Christ more than you believers do. You cannot remove them from the incredible grace of God. I am glad that you have absolutely nothing to do with their salvation.

Maybe they do, but it's up to them to seek Jesus and be saved. Will they actually change their ways and talk the talk and walk the walk? Otherwise, they have the trial by fire and lake of fire to contend with.

 

[james bond]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

We are already in hell. Heaven is absence of all this bullshit.

"On earth as it is in heaven", when the time comes.

We are on the fallen earth. Maybe we are in that I've heard some people say that we make our own hell on earth. However, the Bible says that hell (gehenna) doesn't exist on earth. The grave (hades) exists on earth. Hell for Satan and the fallen angels and those humans doomed to hell will come later.

 

[Nia88]

It’s actually petty when you think of hell. God is the one who is supposed to create people’s destinys, so why only some to be guided into his light while making others disbelievers.

Why should I go to hell because he decreed I don’t believe in him?

It’s really messed up when you think about it.

Why doesn’t God make us all believers so we can go to heaven?

 

[james bond]

The Christian contribution to this sick world, is they gave the world the sick concept of eternal hell punishing. They created this sick serious doctrine of devils. How is that going to help someone?

The sickening thing is that even some believers in God have been seduced into thinking that their concept of hell - helps humanity? Nothing could be more evil than a punishing hell that last forever.

Too much ignorance here. There are two schools of thought in Christianity. Catholic vs Christians.

Christians


Catholics

We are already in hell. Heaven is absence of all this bullshit.

"On earth as it is in heaven", when the time comes.

Amen. Very well stated! Nothing like the Christian hell was even remotely mentioned or suggested to Adam, Eve, Noah, Abraham , Lot, Moses, David , Solomon , Cain , or even the people of Sodom. There is no mention of the creation of hell in the entire NT , or even the purpose of it. And its nowhere in the entire OT; is that not strange? Hell is not explained and no one is " Threatened with it as well."

It's mentioned several times in the Bible. Most versions, it thirteen times in the NT.

One of the key ones is OT Romans 6:23
"23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Death means spiritually dead and the spiritually dead will go into the lake of fire. Hell or gehenna, directly stated, isn't in the OT.

NT Matthew 25:41
"41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Is hell real? Is hell eternal?

Finally, the Bible scholars don't think the audience for the Bible thought about heaven and hell that much. They were more concerned with getting their next meal and being in a comfortable home. Today, believers do not think about heaven and hell that much. While it is a topic of interest and debate, we do not know what it entails. Here's some of my takes. Heaven, originally was on earth with God and Adam and Eve. There was a heaven where God resided, but that was a different place than the paradise on earth. If Adam and Eve had not sinned, then there would be a lot of peoples living in heaven today. However, after the original sin, we were fallen and death was created. If only Adam and Eve had strong faith in God, then I don't think they would've sinned. Today, we have John 3:16 as the starting point. We have to atone for our sins and change our behavior in order to be redeemed. Through our faith and good works, we will try to be as holy as we can through help from the Holy Spirit. And then if we reach heaven, then Jesus' hand on our shoulder deems us holy enough to approach and be greeted by God the Father on his throne.

 

[Mickiel]

It’s actually petty when you think of hell. God is the one who is supposed to create people’s destinys, so why only some to be guided into his light while making others disbelievers.

Why should I go to hell because he decreed I don’t believe in him?

It’s really messed up when you think about it.

Why doesn’t God make us all believers so we can go to heaven?

Hello Nia88,

God does not make us all believers because he knows that he does not need to. God knows and is aware that he will save All of mankind, 1 Tim.2:3-4, " For God our Saviour has accepted it as a good thing that all men be saved and eventually come to understand the real truth." The real truth is 1 Tim. 4:10, " God is the actual savior of ALL MEN, ( which is literal , meaning everybody), specially those who believe. " Those who believe are somewhat special because they are among the first wave of humans to believe, but this verse shows a definite distinction in that there are two groups of humanity saved; Believers, and then every one else. Which is stunning amazing grace. ALL Men , and especially believers; its very clear, but many salvation robbers will try to exclude unbelievers from this, but they cannot, its already sealed. That is the true meaning of Col. 3:11, where Christ is described as being ALL- and IN ALL Humans! Unbelievers cannot take Christ out of selfish stuck up blinded believers, and believers cannot remove Christ from blinded unbelievers; both groups have an issue with blindness.