Why would a God even need a hell?

[Asclepias]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

Hell exists for adults much like the boogey man exists for children. To enforce compliance. Once a person is brainwashed they will self correct.

 

[hadit]

[QUOTE="hadit, post: 14324721,
I mean, seriously. Do you really need me to cite all the places where God rejects sinful man?

Sure, why not; lets have them. Then I will respond each time with some verses of my own, such as Job 23:13, " But he is of one mind, and who can turn him? What his soul desires, THAT he DOES!" This is speaking about God. He does what he desires. Well, what does he desire? 1 Tim. 2:3-4, " For this is GOOD and ACCEPTABLE in the sight of God our Savior, who Desires that ALL men be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

God desires ALL men to be saved, even those who reject him, and those he rejected. And God GETS what he desires. Now the believers in God may not see this as good and they may not accept unbelievers, but salvation is not in their hands.

Oh, please do. From Matthew 7:

22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

From 1 John:

16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

There would be no reason whatsover to specify "whoever does the will of God" unless those who do not have a different fate. Now, as I said, please do continue trying to convince me that the entire theme of the Bible to have your life changed and to live a certain way is meaningless because in the end God's going to ignore your rebellion against Him. Go ahead.

Certainly, I'll do so with much pleasure. In Romans 5:18, "Therefore as by the offense of one , judgment came upon ALL men unto condemnation, even so, by the righteousness of one man the FREE GIFT came upon ALL men unto the Justification of Life." All of mankind, good and evil, were condemned because of Adam, just as remarkable, those SAME ALL of humanity are saved by what Jesus did! Its incredible!

All the people that some believers in God are condemning, they are saved as a free token gesture by God himself. Its his gift; and I understand there are a lot of Christians who want to take that free gift away and condemn humans; but its too late, Jesus already paid for their sins. No Christian can use the bible to condemn anyone.

I mean I know they are still going to try to condemn people, because its their thing to do that. But Jesus has done his salvation thing; and its a done deal.

Also from Romans:

16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.

The promise is for those who have the faith of Abraham.

But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Again, TO ALL WHO BELIEVE.

John 3:

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

Finally, since you cite Romans:

Chapter 2

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.

In short, Scripture is clear that God WILL save those who trust and obey Him, but will reject those who do not. It is also painfully obvious that the early Church leaders would have spent no time or effort evangelizing if there were no need to do so. On the contrary, Jesus made it clear that they were to spread the good news, baptize new believers, and make disciples of them. Again, why bother to do any of that if all are saved no matter what?[/quote]

 

[Mickiel]

In Rom. 3:3, " For what if some did not believe? Would that unbelief make their faith without effect? No, God forbid!" You see because the salvation of humans is based on the faith of God in himself, not the humans faith. Religion has no faith in unbelievers, which is why they condemn them. Again Jesus in John 12:47, " And if any man hears my words and does not believe, I judge him NOT; for I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world!" Again the real truth is that God and Christ will save the WORLD; everyone, not this limited condemning gospel that Christianity is teaching. They completely love us all, and have completely forgiven us all.

Religious people are teaching a limited salvation, because that is what they believe in. Its all they can see. Unbelief is not stopping the salvation of God.

 

[hadit]

In Rom. 3:3, " For what if some did not believe? Would that unbelief make their faith without effect? No, God forbid!" You see because the salvation of humans is based on the faith of God in himself, not the humans faith. Religion has no faith in unbelievers, which is why they condemn them. Again Jesus in John 12:47, " And if any man hears my words and does not believe, I judge him NOT; for I came NOT to judge the world, but to save the world!" Again the real truth is that God and Christ will save the WORLD; everyone, not this limited condemning gospel that Christianity is teaching. They completely love us all, and have completely forgiven us all.

Religious people are teaching a limited salvation, because that is what they believe in. Its all they can see. Unbelief is not stopping the salvation of God.

1. You are perverting the plain meaning of that passage in Romans. Here is the context:

3 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God.

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

You should be able to easily see that the Scripture clearly refers to the Jews, being given that great blessing in the Word of God, cannot nullify God's faithfulness with their unfaithfulness. IOW, the messenger cannot destroy the message. Note that, again, God being the judge and judging is referenced. Your "theology" requires that God NOT be judge, but simply ignore every person's free choice to reject Him. That is not Biblical, as I have demonstrated multiple times. You have to deal with God's judgement of mankind.

You ignore things like this, from Rev 20:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

If, as you maintain, all will be saved, this cannot happen.

 

[Mickiel]

See religions are primed to condemn a lot of people, because THEY must see humans punished harshly; THEY NEED to see unbelievers made to pay, for what Christ has already paid the price for. Many believers themselves have become the biggest roadblock to unbelievers. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13, " For woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, ( or believers), for you " Shut up the Kingdom from men." Jesus meant they were teaching things that limit his Kingdom from people. These believers, ( because the Scribes and Pharisees were believers in God), had a condemning mindset, they were so self righteous, they could see themselves in the Kingdom, and see others out.

And notice verse 15, a stunning revelation from Jesus that these believers would take the converts from their churches and make them " Twice the child of hell than they were." Teaching them this eternal hell punishing mess.

 

[hadit]

See religions are primed to condemn a lot of people, because THEY must see humans punished harshly; THEY NEED to see unbelievers made to pay, for what Christ has already paid the price for. Many believers themselves have become the biggest roadblock to unbelievers. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13, " For woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, ( or believers), for you " Shut up the Kingdom from men." Jesus meant they were teaching things that limit his Kingdom from people. These believers, ( because the Scribes and Pharisees were believers in God), had a condemning mindset, they were so self righteous, they could see themselves in the Kingdom, and see others out.

And notice verse 15, a stunning revelation from Jesus that these believers would take the converts from their churches and make them " Twice the child of hell than they were." Teaching them this eternal hell punishing mess.

Dude, again you're ignoring the clear import of Scripture that God is judge and will judge mankind. No one takes joy in the condemnation of others. Think about what you're saying. You're saying that Jesus' commandments to take His Gospel to the world doesn't matter, that His command to make disciples of all people doesn't matter. Why would it, if there is no eternal consequence for sin? You have to deal with things like the Great White Throne judgement, the clear passages where people ARE thrown into the lake of fire, etc, before you can make that claim. Thus far, you've ignored them.

 

[Mickiel]

3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be tru

entrusted with the very words of God.
e, and every human being a liar. As it is written:

“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge."

You should be able to easily see that the Scripture clearly refers to the Jews, being given that great blessing in the Word of God, cannot nullify God's faithfulness with their unfaithfulness. IOW, the messenger cannot destroy the message. Note that, again, God being the judge and judging is referenced. Your "theology" requires that God NOT be judge, but simply ignore every person's free choice to reject Him. That is not Biblical, as I have demonstrated multiple times. You have to deal with God's judgement of mankind.
You ignore things like this, from Rev 20:

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave ]

See religions are primed to condemn a lot of people, because THEY must see humans punished harshly; THEY NEED to see unbelievers made to pay, for what Christ has already paid the price for. Many believers themselves have become the biggest roadblock to unbelievers. Again Jesus in Matt. 23:13, " For woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, ( or believers), for you " Shut up the Kingdom from men." Jesus meant they were teaching things that limit his Kingdom from people. These believers, ( because the Scribes and Pharisees were believers in God), had a condemning mindset, they were so self righteous, they could see themselves in the Kingdom, and see others out.

And notice verse 15, a stunning revelation from Jesus that these believers would take the converts from their churches and make them " Twice the child of hell than they were." Teaching them this eternal hell punishing mess.

Dude, again you're ignoring the clear import of Scripture that God is judge and will judge mankind. No one takes joy in the condemnation of others. Think about what you're saying. You're saying that Jesus' commandments to take His Gospel to the world doesn't matter, that His command to make disciples of all people doesn't matter. Why would it, if there is no eternal consequence for sin? You have to deal with things like the Great White Throne judgement, the clear passages where people ARE thrown into the lake of fire, etc, before you can make that claim. Thus far, you've ignored them.

I am not ignoring scripture, I am ignoring your view of it, because I hold to a totally differing view. You salvation sight is sorely limited. I disagree that God will judge the world. John 5:22, " For the Father Judges no man, but has given all judgment to the Son." God is NOT going to judge humans. Now, Jesus clearly taught in John 12:47 that he came not to judge humanity. Your judgment mentality was created by religion, not by the bible.

 

[hobelim]

Hell exists for adults much like the boogey man exists for children.

The boogey man is real. Many children who are oblivious to the danger get snatched up by them to this day.

And hell is real. The evidence is overwhelming even all over these boards.

If you don't believe me, set aside rational thought for a moment and "just believe" that a three in one god diddled a virgin to father himself so that he could become fully human without a human father and say things that no one understood only to be despised and rejected, tortured and crucified because he loved the roman empire so much.

In no time flat you will lose your mind and descend into the netherworld, the realm of the dead, where you will be tormented day and night by confusion and saying and doing stupid things that injure yourself and the people you love for the rest of your days.

Unfortunately even then you probably won't believe that hell exists or you'll think that it is some make believe superstition of the past. You'll be so far gone that you will think you were saved.

 

[Mickiel]

There is no such thing as a boogy man, and there is no such thing as the hell Christians describe and teach. Its all traditional garbage and it insults the love of God. It insults the mind of God, because its insanity to teach eternal punishing. Its teaching that God is just as insane as human religion.

 

[koshergrl]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

 

[koshergrl]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

It may be nonsense in your view, but in my view, I would speculate that at least 50% of false information about God originates from human opinion. The rest from satan. False teaching from religious people is how most people are deceived.

 

[koshergrl]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

It may be nonsense in your view, but in my view, I would speculate that at least 50% of false information about God originates from human opinion. The rest from satan. False teaching from religious people is how most people are deceived.

Let's have an example, if you don't mind.

I rather agree, except that truly religious (Christian) people don't spread false information. The people who claim to be *religious* and spread false information are either not religious at all and are simply con artists, or they are atheists or actively anti-Christian bigots who pretend to have a history in the church and a knowledge of scripture..that they do not have. People like Care4All, who portrayed herself as a Catholic during her early days on this board, in order to lend teeth to her pro-abortion arguments.

 

[Mickiel]

I have asked myself why a God would need a hell, ( and by hell I mean the Christian version of it). I mean here this great being of life and love , is said to have created a place of eternal misery? And something is just not right with that, because it makes no sense at all. But a lot of things in religion make no sense, but religion rains on humanity, getting all of our consciousness wet in one manner or another.

My view of God, and I don't know God, have never seen him or heard his voice; is a view that I know is already distorted by many things; but I view him as merciful, loving, kind, forgiving, longsuffering, all the things that this Christian hell is not. So I don't think this hell is God's creation, I think the Christians created it. I think this eternal hell punishing is what Christians would do with unbelievers, not God. I think its moreso what the Christians want.

Why would God make an eternal monument out of evil? For what? Why would such a being of great power of change, co-exist with misery forever? Why? I can't see it. I think something is seriously wrong with this myopic view of hell! The powers that exist which can seduce the consciousness of humanity into believing nonsense, is simply stunning.

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

It may be nonsense in your view, but in my view, I would speculate that at least 50% of false information about God originates from human opinion. The rest from satan. False teaching from religious people is how most people are deceived.

Let's have an example, if you don't mind.

I rather agree, except that truly religious (Christian) people don't spread false information. The people who claim to be *religious* and spread false information are either not religious at all and are simply con artists, or they are atheists or actively anti-Christian bigots who pretend to have a history in the church and a knowledge of scripture..that they do not have. People like Care4All, who portrayed herself as a Catholic during her early days on this board, in order to lend teeth to her pro-abortion arguments.

I totally disagree with you. In Rev. 12:9, satan deceives the whole world. Stunning, the whole world. In my view, one of the ways he has done that, is by using Christianity. There are 2.8 billion Christian's, and 6.9 billion people, that's one third of humanity right there. A perfect way to deceive the whole earth, use 1/3 of its religious people to help you deceive.

 

[koshergrl]

If God is to be righteous, then there has to be a place for unrighteousness to reside.

That place is hell.

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

It may be nonsense in your view, but in my view, I would speculate that at least 50% of false information about God originates from human opinion. The rest from satan. False teaching from religious people is how most people are deceived.

Let's have an example, if you don't mind.

I rather agree, except that truly religious (Christian) people don't spread false information. The people who claim to be *religious* and spread false information are either not religious at all and are simply con artists, or they are atheists or actively anti-Christian bigots who pretend to have a history in the church and a knowledge of scripture..that they do not have. People like Care4All, who portrayed herself as a Catholic during her early days on this board, in order to lend teeth to her pro-abortion arguments.

I totally disagree with you. In Rev. 12:9, satan deceives the whole world. Stunning, the whole world. In my view, one of the ways he has done that, is by using Christianity. There are 2.8 billion Christian's, and 6.9 billion people, that's one third of humanity right there. A perfect way to deceive the whole earth, use 1/3 of its religious people to help you deceive.

You haven't provided me with an example that supports your comment.

 

[Mickiel]

If God be righteous, then everything humans say about him has to be ignored; because that's how unrighteous opinions start.

Nonsense.

It may be nonsense in your view, but in my view, I would speculate that at least 50% of false information about God originates from human opinion. The rest from satan. False teaching from religious people is how most people are deceived.

Let's have an example, if you don't mind.

I rather agree, except that truly religious (Christian) people don't spread false information. The people who claim to be *religious* and spread false information are either not religious at all and are simply con artists, or they are atheists or actively anti-Christian bigots who pretend to have a history in the church and a knowledge of scripture..that they do not have. People like Care4All, who portrayed herself as a Catholic during her early days on this board, in order to lend teeth to her pro-abortion arguments.

I totally disagree with you. In Rev. 12:9, satan deceives the whole world. Stunning, the whole world. In my view, one of the ways he has done that, is by using Christianity. There are 2.8 billion Christian's, and 6.9 billion people, that's one third of humanity right there. A perfect way to deceive the whole earth, use 1/3 of its religious people to help you deceive.

You haven't provided me with an example that supports your comment.

Here are a few biblical examples; Rev. 6:2, the first seal is unleashed on humanity, which in my view is false religion. The rider on a " White horse", so the world thinks this is pure. The rider has a crown, or authority, just like religion. The rider has a bow, or a weapon, which I think may be a bible, and religion misuses that.

Or we can look at examples of actual churches of God and look at what Jesus saw in these people OF HIS! Rev. 2:4, Jesus had things against the church of Ephesus. In Rev. 2:15 this church of God in Pergamos is doing things that Jesus hates! In 2:20 Jesus has things against his church in Thyatira. In Rev. 3: 16-20 Jesus has things against HIS church in Laodicea, in verse 20 he is standing at their door and knocking; he is on the outside!

Religious people in God's own church spreading lies and deception! Its right there in the book of Revelations for all to see.

 

[Mickiel]

More of religious believers deceiving people or they themselves being deceived;
Matt. 7:22-23, again Jesus teaching; "many will say to me in that day, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? And in your name cast out devils? And in your name done wonderful works? But I will tell them that I never knew them." These are real serious believers in Christ, they did good works and preached in Jesus name. But they had problems that they were not aware of, ( a deceived person does not know they are deceived). These believers then infected others with their deception, a false interpretation of scripture being spread by believers in God, or you can say Christians. Jesus said in Matt. 8 : 12 that even " The children of the Kingdom will be cast out!" Children of the Kingdom means converted believers in God. In my view it does.

In Rev. 13:11-18 , one of the beast it describes had two horns " Like a Lamb". But it spoke like a dragon! That means it looked like a converted believer in God, but it spoke deception. It did great wonders on the earth, ( like healing people in these large meetings, collecting large sums of money and feeding the poor, building these great church buildings, having very large giant memberships, ect...) in verse 14 it clearly states that they deceived people on the earth by means of " Miracles"; these are RELIGIOUS deceptions, a miracle is a religious event! Mostly done by religious leaders, pastors and evangelist.

These religious believers, or Christians, are trying to take the Kingdom of God by force of their own will; that is the " Violence" spoken of in Matt. 11:12; the Kingdom of God suffers violence from its own residents! Because they are stubborn and hard headed, teaching this free will doctrine, that the Kingdom is a place that only those who choose to be there, will be there; a stunning deception.

 

[Mickiel]

Why would a God need a hell, when he has a heaven?

 

[hobelim]

Why would a God need a hell, when he has a heaven?

Why are wild animals kept in a cage when the city has lots of public parks and open spaces?

Hell is the realm where the dead are kept until the final awakening.