Why the United States DIDN'T Target Tokyo With Atomic Bombs
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Crepitus
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I ain't gonna watch crappy youtube videos, but it was off the target list because it was already pretty much trashed. They wanted to prove there was nowhere to run so they needed unscathed territory.
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Replies such as the above are truly not worth reading.
Crepitus
Diamond Member
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And your crappy, uncommented video from questionable sources isn't worth watching.
I gave you a fact, Do with it what you will.
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This Creeptius clown hardly ever gets anything right but he was uncharacteristically right this time.
The fire bombing of Tokyo did so much damage it wasn't worthwhile nuking it.
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That is what was said in the video I posted.
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Your comment is resting in the toilet tank.
noonereal
Gold Member
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I am not watching, I know my history.
Tokyo had already been totally obliterated. It was firebombed like Dresden in Germany was.
Tornadoes of fire which sucked up all the air and suffocated people who were not burnt alive. Even people who jumped in the river could not escape death.
Crepitus
Diamond Member
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So you frequent toilet tanks I guess, since you're down here reading my comments?
- Banned
- #10
I bet he didn't even watch your video. He just made a wild ass guess and for once in his miserable uneducated life got something right.
ThirdTerm
Severely Conservative
Tokyo was already reduced to rubble by the Great Tokyo Air Raid and there was nothing else to be destroyed to demonstrate the power of the atomic bomb. Tokyo also hosted the Emperor's palace and he had to be kept alive as a puppet who would cooperate with MacArthur's post-war rule. Otherwise, the Japanese population would have fought to the last man literally and a lot more American soldiers would have been killed.
fncceo
Diamond Member
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While huge swathes of Tokyo had been burned to the ground ... there were large and important parts untouched.
Metropolitan Tokyo was huge, even inn1945 and Thr Imperial Palace in Marunouchi and the Diet building in Chiyoda-ku, the seats of power, were unscathed.
I presume, the idea was, if we wanted Japan to surrender, there had to be someone left in charge to do the surrendering.
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Sure looks that way.
- Sep 9, 2022
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Sounds like you made the video.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
Select excerpts of text from Wiki;
......
...In the final year of World War II, the Allies prepared for a costly invasion of the Japanese mainland. This undertaking was preceded by a conventional bombing and firebombing campaign that devastated 64 Japanese cities. The war in the European theatre concluded when Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, and the Allies turned their full attention to the Pacific War. By July 1945, the Allies' Manhattan Project had produced two types of atomic bombs: "Little Boy", an enriched uranium gun-type fission weapon, and "Fat Man", a plutonium implosion-type nuclear weapon. The 509th Composite Group of the United States Army Air Forces was trained and equipped with the specialized Silverplate version of the Boeing B-29 Superfortress, and deployed to Tinian in the Mariana Islands. ...
.......
Hansell's successor, Major General Curtis LeMay, assumed command in January 1945 and initially continued to use the same precision bombing tactics, with equally unsatisfactory results. The attacks initially targeted key industrial facilities but much of the Japanese manufacturing process was carried out in small workshops and private homes.[37] Under pressure from United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) headquarters in Washington, LeMay changed tactics and decided that low-level incendiary raids against Japanese cities were the only way to destroy their production capabilities, shifting from precision bombing to area bombardment with incendiaries.[38] Like most strategic bombing during World War II, the aim of the air offensive against Japan was to destroy the enemy's war industries, kill or disable civilian employees of these industries, and undermine civilian morale.[39][40]
Over the next six months, the XXI Bomber Command under LeMay firebombed 64 Japanese cities.[41] The firebombing of Tokyo, codenamed Operation Meetinghouse, on 9–10 March killed an estimated 100,000 people and destroyed 41 km2 (16 sq mi) of the city and 267,000 buildings in a single night. It was the deadliest bombing raid of the war, at a cost of 20 B-29s shot down by flak and fighters.[42] By May, 75 percent of bombs dropped were incendiaries designed to burn down Japan's "paper cities". By mid-June, Japan's six largest cities had been devastated.[43] The end of the fighting on Okinawa that month provided airfields even closer to the Japanese mainland, allowing the bombing campaign to be further escalated. Aircraft flying from Allied aircraft carriers and the Ryukyu Islands also regularly struck targets in Japan during 1945 in preparation for Operation Downfall.[44] Firebombing switched to smaller cities, with populations ranging from 60,000 to 350,000. According to Yuki Tanaka, the U.S. fire-bombed over a hundred Japanese towns and cities.[45]
........
The Target Committee nominated five targets: Kokura (now Kitakyushu), the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Yokohama, an urban center for aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:
These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids, and the Army Air Forces agreed to leave them off the target list so accurate assessment of the damage caused by the atomic bombs could be made. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."[73]
..........
Hiroshima was the primary target of the first atomic bombing mission on 6 August, with Kokura and Nagasaki as alternative targets. The 393d Bombardment Squadron B-29 Enola Gay, named after Tibbets's mother and piloted by Tibbets, took off from North Field, Tinian, about six hours' flight time from Japan.[126] Enola Gay was accompanied by two other B-29s: The Great Artiste, commanded by Major Charles Sweeney, which carried instrumentation, and a then-nameless aircraft later called Necessary Evil, commanded by Captain George Marquardt. Necessary Evil was the photography aircraft.[127]
Special Mission 13, primary target Hiroshima, 6 August 1945[127][128]
After leaving Tinian, the aircraft made their way separately to Iwo Jima to rendezvous with Sweeney and Marquardt at 05:55 at 2,800 meters (9,200 ft),[129] and set course for Japan. The aircraft arrived over the target in clear visibility at 9,470 meters (31,060 ft).[130] Parsons, who was in command of the mission, armed the bomb in flight to minimize the risks during takeoff. He had witnessed four B-29s crash and burn at takeoff, and feared that a nuclear explosion would occur if a B-29 crashed with an armed Little Boy on board.[131] His assistant, Second Lieutenant Morris R. Jeppson, removed the safety devices 30 minutes before reaching the target area.[132]
..........
The Bockscar B-29 and a post war Mk III nuclear weapon painted to resemble the Fat Man bomb, at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, Dayton, Ohio
Responsibility for the timing of the second bombing was delegated to Tibbets. Scheduled for 11 August against Kokura, the raid was moved earlier by two days to avoid a five-day period of bad weather forecast to begin on 10 August.[188] Three bomb pre-assemblies had been transported to Tinian, labeled F-31, F-32, and F-33 on their exteriors. On 8 August, a dress rehearsal was conducted off Tinian by Sweeney using Bockscar as the drop airplane. Assembly F-33 was expended testing the components and F-31 was designated for the 9 August mission.[189]
Special Mission 16, secondary target Nagasaki, 9 August 1945[190]
At 03:47 Tinian time (GMT+10), 02:47 Japanese time,[191] on the morning of 9 August 1945, Bockscar, flown by Sweeney's crew, lifted off from Tinian island with the Fat Man, with Kokura as the primary target and Nagasaki the secondary target. The mission plan for the second attack was nearly identical to that of the Hiroshima mission, with two B-29s flying an hour ahead as weather scouts and two additional B-29s in Sweeney's flight for instrumentation and photographic support of the mission. Sweeney took off with his weapon already armed but with the electrical safety plugs still engaged.[192]
.................
en.wikipedia.org
...........
Other than the test in the New Mexico dessert, extent and effect of atomic bomb was varied calculations and speculations. Reported a few scientists on the project thought there might be a chance the detonation would spark a chain reaction across the whole planet.
As pointed out above, a handful of target cities were left out of the larger bomber raids so that full effects of the two types of bombs could be measured/gauged.
Bomb production in the USA was still at a trickle rate, about one bomb every few weeks and slowly increasing in ones and two over the next several months, so a "rain of atom bombs" would have take most of a year in time. And if Japan didn't surrender after the first two(three), the Allies likely would have been engaged in the mainland invasion of the Home Islands.
......
...In the final year of World War II, the Allies prepared for a costly invasion of the Japanese mainland. This undertaking was preceded by a conventional bombing and firebombing campaign that devastated 64 Japanese cities. The war in the European theatre concluded when Germany surrendered on 8 May 1945, and the Allies turned their full attention to the Pacific War. By July 1945, the Allies' Manhattan Project had produced two types of atomic bombs: "Little Boy", an enriched uranium gun-type fission weapon, and "Fat Man", a plutonium implosion-type nuclear weapon. The 509th Composite Group of the United States Army Air Forces was trained and equipped with the specialized Silverplate version of the Boeing B-29 Superfortress, and deployed to Tinian in the Mariana Islands. ...
.......
Hansell's successor, Major General Curtis LeMay, assumed command in January 1945 and initially continued to use the same precision bombing tactics, with equally unsatisfactory results. The attacks initially targeted key industrial facilities but much of the Japanese manufacturing process was carried out in small workshops and private homes.[37] Under pressure from United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) headquarters in Washington, LeMay changed tactics and decided that low-level incendiary raids against Japanese cities were the only way to destroy their production capabilities, shifting from precision bombing to area bombardment with incendiaries.[38] Like most strategic bombing during World War II, the aim of the air offensive against Japan was to destroy the enemy's war industries, kill or disable civilian employees of these industries, and undermine civilian morale.[39][40]
Over the next six months, the XXI Bomber Command under LeMay firebombed 64 Japanese cities.[41] The firebombing of Tokyo, codenamed Operation Meetinghouse, on 9–10 March killed an estimated 100,000 people and destroyed 41 km2 (16 sq mi) of the city and 267,000 buildings in a single night. It was the deadliest bombing raid of the war, at a cost of 20 B-29s shot down by flak and fighters.[42] By May, 75 percent of bombs dropped were incendiaries designed to burn down Japan's "paper cities". By mid-June, Japan's six largest cities had been devastated.[43] The end of the fighting on Okinawa that month provided airfields even closer to the Japanese mainland, allowing the bombing campaign to be further escalated. Aircraft flying from Allied aircraft carriers and the Ryukyu Islands also regularly struck targets in Japan during 1945 in preparation for Operation Downfall.[44] Firebombing switched to smaller cities, with populations ranging from 60,000 to 350,000. According to Yuki Tanaka, the U.S. fire-bombed over a hundred Japanese towns and cities.[45]
........
The Target Committee nominated five targets: Kokura (now Kitakyushu), the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants; Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters; Yokohama, an urban center for aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries; Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center. The target selection was subject to the following criteria:
- The target was larger than 4.8 km (3 mi) in diameter and was an important target in a large city.
- The blast wave would create effective damage.
- The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945.[73]
These cities were largely untouched during the nightly bombing raids, and the Army Air Forces agreed to leave them off the target list so accurate assessment of the damage caused by the atomic bombs could be made. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarkation in the middle of an urban industrial area. It is a good radar target and it is such a size that a large part of the city could be extensively damaged. There are adjacent hills which are likely to produce a focusing effect which would considerably increase the blast damage. Due to rivers it is not a good incendiary target."[73]
..........
Hiroshima was the primary target of the first atomic bombing mission on 6 August, with Kokura and Nagasaki as alternative targets. The 393d Bombardment Squadron B-29 Enola Gay, named after Tibbets's mother and piloted by Tibbets, took off from North Field, Tinian, about six hours' flight time from Japan.[126] Enola Gay was accompanied by two other B-29s: The Great Artiste, commanded by Major Charles Sweeney, which carried instrumentation, and a then-nameless aircraft later called Necessary Evil, commanded by Captain George Marquardt. Necessary Evil was the photography aircraft.[127]
Special Mission 13, primary target Hiroshima, 6 August 1945[127][128]
Aircraft | Pilot | Call sign | Mission role |
|---|---|---|---|
| Straight Flush | Major Claude R. Eatherly | Dimples 85 | Weather reconnaissance (Hiroshima) |
| Jabit III | Major John A. Wilson | Dimples 71 | Weather reconnaissance (Kokura) |
| Full House | Major Ralph R. Taylor | Dimples 83 | Weather reconnaissance (Nagasaki) |
| Enola Gay | Colonel Paul W. Tibbets | Dimples 82 | Weapon delivery |
| The Great Artiste | Major Charles W. Sweeney | Dimples 89 | Blast measurement instrumentation |
| Necessary Evil | Captain George W. Marquardt | Dimples 91 | Strike observation and photography |
| Top Secret | Captain Charles F. McKnight | Dimples 72 | Strike spare – did not complete mission |
After leaving Tinian, the aircraft made their way separately to Iwo Jima to rendezvous with Sweeney and Marquardt at 05:55 at 2,800 meters (9,200 ft),[129] and set course for Japan. The aircraft arrived over the target in clear visibility at 9,470 meters (31,060 ft).[130] Parsons, who was in command of the mission, armed the bomb in flight to minimize the risks during takeoff. He had witnessed four B-29s crash and burn at takeoff, and feared that a nuclear explosion would occur if a B-29 crashed with an armed Little Boy on board.[131] His assistant, Second Lieutenant Morris R. Jeppson, removed the safety devices 30 minutes before reaching the target area.[132]
..........
Bombing of Nagasaki
The Bockscar B-29 and a post war Mk III nuclear weapon painted to resemble the Fat Man bomb, at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, Dayton, OhioResponsibility for the timing of the second bombing was delegated to Tibbets. Scheduled for 11 August against Kokura, the raid was moved earlier by two days to avoid a five-day period of bad weather forecast to begin on 10 August.[188] Three bomb pre-assemblies had been transported to Tinian, labeled F-31, F-32, and F-33 on their exteriors. On 8 August, a dress rehearsal was conducted off Tinian by Sweeney using Bockscar as the drop airplane. Assembly F-33 was expended testing the components and F-31 was designated for the 9 August mission.[189]
Special Mission 16, secondary target Nagasaki, 9 August 1945[190]
Aircraft | Pilot | Call sign | Mission role |
|---|---|---|---|
| Enola Gay | Captain George W. Marquardt | Dimples 82 | Weather reconnaissance (Kokura) |
| Laggin' Dragon | Captain Charles F. McKnight | Dimples 95 | Weather reconnaissance (Nagasaki) |
| Bockscar | Major Charles W. Sweeney | Dimples 77 | Weapon delivery |
| The Great Artiste | Captain Frederick C. Bock | Dimples 89 | Blast measurement instrumentation |
| Big Stink | Major James I. Hopkins, Jr. | Dimples 90 | Strike observation and photography |
| Full House | Major Ralph R. Taylor | Dimples 83 | Strike spare – did not complete mission |
At 03:47 Tinian time (GMT+10), 02:47 Japanese time,[191] on the morning of 9 August 1945, Bockscar, flown by Sweeney's crew, lifted off from Tinian island with the Fat Man, with Kokura as the primary target and Nagasaki the secondary target. The mission plan for the second attack was nearly identical to that of the Hiroshima mission, with two B-29s flying an hour ahead as weather scouts and two additional B-29s in Sweeney's flight for instrumentation and photographic support of the mission. Sweeney took off with his weapon already armed but with the electrical safety plugs still engaged.[192]
.................
Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki - Wikipedia
Other than the test in the New Mexico dessert, extent and effect of atomic bomb was varied calculations and speculations. Reported a few scientists on the project thought there might be a chance the detonation would spark a chain reaction across the whole planet.
As pointed out above, a handful of target cities were left out of the larger bomber raids so that full effects of the two types of bombs could be measured/gauged.
Bomb production in the USA was still at a trickle rate, about one bomb every few weeks and slowly increasing in ones and two over the next several months, so a "rain of atom bombs" would have take most of a year in time. And if Japan didn't surrender after the first two(three), the Allies likely would have been engaged in the mainland invasion of the Home Islands.
Stryder50
Platinum Member
EXCERPTS:
The 509th Composite Group (509 CG) was a unit of the United States Army Air Forces created during World War II and tasked with the operational deployment of nuclear weapons. It conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.
The group was activated on 17 December 1944 at Wendover Army Air Field, Utah. It was commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Paul W. Tibbets. Because it contained flying squadrons equipped with Boeing B-29 Superfortress bombers, C-47 Skytrain, and C-54 Skymaster transport aircraft, the group was designated as a "composite", rather than a "bombardment" formation. It operated Silverplate B-29s, which were specially configured to enable them to carry nuclear weapons.
The 509th Composite Group began deploying to North Field on Tinian, Northern Mariana Islands, in May 1945. In addition to the two nuclear bombing raids, it carried out 15 practice missions against Japanese-held islands, and 12 combat missions against targets in Japan dropping high-explosive pumpkin bombs.
In the postwar era, the 509th Composite Group was one of the original ten bombardment groups assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946 and the only one equipped with Silverplate B-29 Superfortress aircraft capable of delivering atomic bombs. It was standardized as a bombardment group and redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy, on 10 July 1946.
.........
The 393d Bombardment Squadron conducted ground school training only until delivery of three modified Silverplate airplanes in mid-October 1944 allowed resumption of flight training.[12] These aircraft had extensive bomb bay modifications and a "weaponeer" station installed. Initial training operations identified numerous other modifications necessary to the mission, particularly in reducing the overall weight of the airplane to offset the heavy loads it would be required to carry. Five more Silverplates were delivered in November and six in December, giving the group 14 for its training operations. In January and February 1945, 10 of the 15 crews under the command of the Group S-3 (operations officer) were assigned temporary duty at Batista Field, San Antonio de los Baños, Cuba, where they trained in long-range over-water navigation.[13]
..........
en.wikipedia.org
The Silverplate B-29s also had the four remote control gun turrets and their director equipment removed. Only remaining defensive armament being the pair of .50 cal in the tail end.
Post war the 509th was stationed at Roswell Army Air Base in New Mexico. Close to what has become known in UFO history as the July 1947 Roswell Incident (crash).
..........
The 509th Composite Group (509 CG) was a unit of the United States Army Air Forces created during World War II and tasked with the operational deployment of nuclear weapons. It conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.
The group was activated on 17 December 1944 at Wendover Army Air Field, Utah. It was commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Paul W. Tibbets. Because it contained flying squadrons equipped with Boeing B-29 Superfortress bombers, C-47 Skytrain, and C-54 Skymaster transport aircraft, the group was designated as a "composite", rather than a "bombardment" formation. It operated Silverplate B-29s, which were specially configured to enable them to carry nuclear weapons.
The 509th Composite Group began deploying to North Field on Tinian, Northern Mariana Islands, in May 1945. In addition to the two nuclear bombing raids, it carried out 15 practice missions against Japanese-held islands, and 12 combat missions against targets in Japan dropping high-explosive pumpkin bombs.
In the postwar era, the 509th Composite Group was one of the original ten bombardment groups assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946 and the only one equipped with Silverplate B-29 Superfortress aircraft capable of delivering atomic bombs. It was standardized as a bombardment group and redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy, on 10 July 1946.
.........
The 393d Bombardment Squadron conducted ground school training only until delivery of three modified Silverplate airplanes in mid-October 1944 allowed resumption of flight training.[12] These aircraft had extensive bomb bay modifications and a "weaponeer" station installed. Initial training operations identified numerous other modifications necessary to the mission, particularly in reducing the overall weight of the airplane to offset the heavy loads it would be required to carry. Five more Silverplates were delivered in November and six in December, giving the group 14 for its training operations. In January and February 1945, 10 of the 15 crews under the command of the Group S-3 (operations officer) were assigned temporary duty at Batista Field, San Antonio de los Baños, Cuba, where they trained in long-range over-water navigation.[13]
..........
509th Composite Group - Wikipedia
The Silverplate B-29s also had the four remote control gun turrets and their director equipment removed. Only remaining defensive armament being the pair of .50 cal in the tail end.
Post war the 509th was stationed at Roswell Army Air Base in New Mexico. Close to what has become known in UFO history as the July 1947 Roswell Incident (crash).
..........
509th Composite Group - WWII - World War II - Army Air Forces
509th Composite Group - Nuclear Museum
509th Bomb Wing - Wikipedia
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