Why the money system is flawed and why the debt cannot be paid off even if they want to?

[Natural Citizen]

In other words the US government cannot pay of the debt ever even if it spend not even dollar in a year.

If we stop borrowing, then no new ''currency'' is created to replace the ''currency'' that was used to make payments on the debt.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

That debt also extinguishes the currency.

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire currency supply would vanish.

So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

Any talk of balancing the budget or bringing down the debt or living within our means and just any of those same old cookie-cutter arguments that get tossed out there are deflationary.

It is impossible to do under our current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy.

This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is ridiculous because the system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue.

And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finally collapses under its own weight.

They do this so that it doesn't happen on their watch.

 

[Woodznutz]

It is said that our kids and grandkids will inherit the debts this generation has incurred. However, they will also inherit the assets that this generation has produced.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If we stop borrowing, then no new ''currency'' is created to replace the ''currency'' that was used to make payments on the debt.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

That debt also extinguishes the currency.

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire currency supply would vanish.

So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

Any talk of balancing the budget or bringing down the debt or living within our means and just any of those same old cookie-cutter arguments that get tossed out there are deflationary.

It is impossible to do under our current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy.

This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is ridiculous because the system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue.

And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finally collapses under its own weight.

They do this so that it doesn't happen on their watch.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

That debt also extinguishes the currency.

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If I hand you 5 $20s to pay off my $100 debt to you, the $20s are destroyed?

What if I hand you a $100 check, is that $100 destroyed? If you want to turn around and spend that $100, you can't? It's gone?

 

[Woodznutz]

There is always more debt in the system than there is 'currency' in existence to pay the debt. That's what makes the entire system finite.

The velocity, or 'trade turn' makes it nearly infinite. For example, the same $100 can retire the debts of multiple debtors.

John pays Pete off with $100.
Pete then pays Sam off with same $100.
Sam then pays George off with same $100.
George then pays Stan off with same $100,
and so on.

 

[Flopper]

If we stop borrowing, then no new ''currency'' is created to replace the ''currency'' that was used to make payments on the debt.

Whether you're making a payment on a loan or paying a tax to make a payment on a Treasury bond, the portion of the payment that goes to pay off the principal extinguishes that portion of the debt.

That debt also extinguishes the currency.

When currency and debt meet, they destroy each other.

If we just pay off the principal only, all of the loans and Treasury bonds that exist, the entire currency supply would vanish.

So, if we don't go deeper into debt every year, the whole thing goes into a deflationary collapse under the weight of those payments.

Any talk of balancing the budget or bringing down the debt or living within our means and just any of those same old cookie-cutter arguments that get tossed out there are deflationary.

It is impossible to do under our current monetary system without collapsing the entire economy.

This is why any talk of a debt ceiling is ridiculous because the system is designed to require ever-increasing levels of debt just to continue.

And that's why politicians will always kick the can down the road and raise the so-called debt ceiling over and over again until the whole system finally collapses under its own weight.

They do this so that it doesn't happen on their watch.

I didn't follow your entire post.
We issue treasure bills each year using most of the funds we receive to pay off lenders whose treasury bills are coming due. That we must do or default. We also must pay the borrowers interest on debt. So even if we bring down our spending to equal our revenue, we still issuing treasure bills to payoff lenders as treasuries come due plus the interest on the debt.

Paying off our debt would be a terrible idea. Reducing our deficit would be a good idea but no one, republican or democrat are willing cut spending and increase revenues to do it.

 

[Red Front]

It's an inherent flaw with any usury (interest). The aggregate obligation (principal & interest) far exceeds the whole set of available money tokens. In other words, the money needed for all to pay their creditors DOES NOT EXIST.
Look at the USA's national debt.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
NATIONAL DEBT = $32.726 trillion dollars
(Debt per citizen = $97,606 dollars)
INTEREST = $664.93 billion dollar bills

Federal Reserve Balance Sheet: Factors Affecting Reserve Balances - H.4.1 - November 16, 2023
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Aug. 23, 2023
Currency in circulation . . . 2,328,554 millions (2.3 trillions)

[Note: “Dollar bills” being debt, are part of the 32.7 T national debt. They cannot grow without an increase in the debt. Debt cannot pay debt, having a minus value. Even if the dollar bills could, there isn't enough of them.]

US Population = 335,145,075
Currency (per capita) = $6,947.89 dollar bills.
Discrepancy : $6,947 - $97,606 = -90,659 (shortfall)

This problem extends to all private debt, as well. Outstanding obligations far exceed the volume and value of circulating medium. This is partly masked by the preponderance of "electronic" money transfers. If everyone tried to "cash out" the system would implode, and folks would be fortunate to get microcents on the dollar bill.

The so-called "national debt" isn't really a debt in the sense of a household debt, but it's rather a ledger of how much USD it has inserted into the economy or "spent" into the private sector, without it being returned in taxes:

​

The US Federal Government being the exclusive issuer of the USD, makes it impossible for it to go insolvent. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and provided our country has a GDP (production capacity), in the trillions, our economy will continue to function. There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP, which is now approximately 26 trillion dollars. 26 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

As long as there isn't too much money chasing after to few goods and services and our Fed Gov is allocating its funds towards infrastructural projects/public goods and services that serve and enhance the public's productive capacity, improving people's standard of living, our GDP will continue to grow. We're fine, our economy will continue to expand and there will never be a catastrophic collapse (The USD is a sovereign fiat currency backed by America's GDP/American Muscle).

So your fear of an economic catastrophic failure, due to you comparing our so-called "national debt" to a household debt or private debt is misleading and just wrong. So-called "balanced budgets" at a macroeconomic scale, always hurt the economy. Look at the facts of our history with respect to balanced budgets and recessions. Balanced budgets mean less money in the private sector (in our nation's economy), less private investment, less savings, less less less across the board, for the American people. How is that good? It's not.

More so-called "government debt", more money in the hands of the American people. The government's "red ink" is the American people's "black ink".

You're being misguided by those who hate the government doing anything for the American people. You've been hood-winked by big-money capitalist elites, who abhor the government doing anything other than serving them:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,388,954,161	952
2	Intel	$8,355,503,416	127
3	Ford Motor	$7,718,954,966	684
4	General Motors	$7,494,705,750	783
5	Micron Technology	$6,786,681,915	19
6	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
7	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
8	Amazon.com	$5,532,086,473	433
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
11	Volkswagen	$3,880,517,317	209
12	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
13	NRG Energy	$3,405,383,876	264
14	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Nucor	$2,518,064,340	171
20	Walt Disney	$2,483,328,762	255
21	SkyWest	$2,418,120,282	981
22	Iberdrola	$2,380,537,196	109
23	Toyota	$2,304,226,689	237
24	Shell PLC	$2,210,816,246	131
25	Samsung	$2,178,196,443	83
26	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	90
27	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
28	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
29	Hyundai Motor	$2,048,610,159	17
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,010,825,527	124
31	Brookfield Asset Management	$1,968,826,437	231
32	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,963,051,772	61
33	Exxon Mobil	$1,906,554,975	227
34	Paramount Global	$1,845,796,313	332
35	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
36	Apple Inc.	$1,833,837,442	61
37	Comcast	$1,827,808,120	390
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,821,579,761	1,190
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	General Electric	$1,737,066,990	994
41	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,726,928,435	87
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	Energy Transfer	$1,680,763,748	155
45	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,593,063	1,147
46	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
47	Duke Energy	$1,580,417,759	86
48	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,560,125,015	63
49	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
50	IBM Corp.	$1,495,438,545	367
51	General Atomics	$1,476,687,046	111
52	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
53	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,363,926,937	111
56	Lockheed Martin	$1,334,594,360	319
57	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
58	Northrop Grumman	$1,275,514,883	284
59	Corning Inc.	$1,262,885,869	389
60	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
61	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
62	RTX Corporation	$1,168,240,858	779
63	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,144,919,260	17
64	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
65	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
66	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
67	AES Corp.	$1,030,194,632	132
68	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$1,018,366,272	417
69	Abengoa	$988,188,652	43
70	Exelon	$982,955,949	57
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
74	Apollo Global Management	$896,345,186	586
75	LG	$881,567,511	87
76	Delta Air Lines	$878,093,932	17
77	Centene	$877,508,496	56
78	Bayer	$850,128,391	212
79	Honda	$849,832,301	92
80	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
82	SunEdison	$813,584,873	113
83	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
84	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
85	Archer Daniels Midland	$771,819,773	1,116
86	EDF-Electricite de France	$766,205,550	36
87	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$764,594,690	217
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	Bank of America	$744,566,157	929
90	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
91	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
92	Koch Industries	$673,998,188	495
93	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	29
94	Wells Fargo	$653,074,103	540
95	Entergy	$638,345,893	234
96	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
97	FedEx	$621,948,452	624
98	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
99	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1

The big-money capitalists hate the government unless it's a plutocratic, oligarchal system under their control. Capitalists hate democratic, republican governments because they serve the public good and hence due to that, capitalists are regulated, taxed, and told "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHIT" and they don't like being told they can't do whatever they want to do, even if it hurts the public. They want to do whatever they want to do, hence they hate democratic, republican governments that aren't under their heel and control.

This bullshit about a "national debt" serves to scare the American public and force the government to privatize everything, placing all of the nation's resources and industries in the hands of the rich. It unnecessarily limits what the government can do to serve the public, as far as developing and maintaining infrastructure and providing public goods and services.

The big-money capitalists (not small business owners/mom-and-pop pizzeria, I'm referring to the big-boys, the Fortune 500s, big corporations) want to control all public resources and assets, capitalizing on EVERYTHING. That's where this fearmongering about the "national debt" comes from. Why don't they ever talk about the "national asset" and only talk about the supposed "national debt"? All debts have assets, right? Who's holding the assets of America's so-called "national debt "? The American people.

The vast majority of assets are in American hands and that which isn't, is mostly in treasury bonds that can very easily be paid by the US Fed Gov. Easy-peasy, bara-bing-bara-boom, the Fed can easily pay any foreign investor who wants to "cash out" their investments. Don't believe whoever tells you otherwise. China doesn't own the USD or our economy, don't believe the hype.

Don't fall for the national debt bullshit. America is the most productive, hardworking country in the world and it has a government with a sovereign fiat currency, which can never go insolvent. Not only do we have a sovereign fiat currency but our USD is the reserve currency of the world, and there's no sign of that changing anytime soon. Even if that happens, we're fine, don't worry, be happy. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and it will always meet its obligations, without going into hyperinflation. Fret not America, don't drink their "national debt" fearmongering Kool-Aid. Relax.

 

[Red Front]

The so-called "national debt" isn't really a debt in the sense of a household debt, but it's rather a ledger of how much USD it has inserted into the economy or "spent" into the private sector, without it being returned in taxes:

​

The US Federal Government being the exclusive issuer of the USD, makes it impossible for it to go insolvent. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and provided our country has a GDP (production capacity), in the trillions, our economy will continue to function. There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP, which is now approximately 26 trillion dollars. 26 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

As long as there isn't too much money chasing after to few goods and services and our Fed Gov is allocating its funds towards infrastructural projects/public goods and services that serve and enhance the public's productive capacity, improving people's standard of living, our GDP will continue to grow. We're fine, our economy will continue to expand and there will never be a catastrophic collapse (The USD is a sovereign fiat currency backed by America's GDP/American Muscle).

So your fear of an economic catastrophic failure, due to you comparing our so-called "national debt" to a household debt or private debt is misleading and just wrong. So-called "balanced budgets" at a macroeconomic scale, always hurt the economy. Look at the facts of our history with respect to balanced budgets and recessions. Balanced budgets mean less money in the private sector (in our nation's economy), less private investment, less savings, less less less across the board, for the American people. How is that good? It's not.

View attachment 903698​

More so-called "government debt", more money in the hands of the American people. The government's "red ink" is the American people's "black ink".

You're being misguided by those who hate the government doing anything for the American people. You've been hood-winked by big-money capitalist elites, who abhor the government doing anything other than serving them:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,388,954,161	952
2	Intel	$8,355,503,416	127
3	Ford Motor	$7,718,954,966	684
4	General Motors	$7,494,705,750	783
5	Micron Technology	$6,786,681,915	19
6	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
7	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
8	Amazon.com	$5,532,086,473	433
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
11	Volkswagen	$3,880,517,317	209
12	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
13	NRG Energy	$3,405,383,876	264
14	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Nucor	$2,518,064,340	171
20	Walt Disney	$2,483,328,762	255
21	SkyWest	$2,418,120,282	981
22	Iberdrola	$2,380,537,196	109
23	Toyota	$2,304,226,689	237
24	Shell PLC	$2,210,816,246	131
25	Samsung	$2,178,196,443	83
26	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	90
27	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
28	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
29	Hyundai Motor	$2,048,610,159	17
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,010,825,527	124
31	Brookfield Asset Management	$1,968,826,437	231
32	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,963,051,772	61
33	Exxon Mobil	$1,906,554,975	227
34	Paramount Global	$1,845,796,313	332
35	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
36	Apple Inc.	$1,833,837,442	61
37	Comcast	$1,827,808,120	390
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,821,579,761	1,190
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	General Electric	$1,737,066,990	994
41	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,726,928,435	87
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	Energy Transfer	$1,680,763,748	155
45	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,593,063	1,147
46	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
47	Duke Energy	$1,580,417,759	86
48	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,560,125,015	63
49	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
50	IBM Corp.	$1,495,438,545	367
51	General Atomics	$1,476,687,046	111
52	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
53	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,363,926,937	111
56	Lockheed Martin	$1,334,594,360	319
57	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
58	Northrop Grumman	$1,275,514,883	284
59	Corning Inc.	$1,262,885,869	389
60	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
61	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
62	RTX Corporation	$1,168,240,858	779
63	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,144,919,260	17
64	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
65	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
66	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
67	AES Corp.	$1,030,194,632	132
68	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$1,018,366,272	417
69	Abengoa	$988,188,652	43
70	Exelon	$982,955,949	57
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
74	Apollo Global Management	$896,345,186	586
75	LG	$881,567,511	87
76	Delta Air Lines	$878,093,932	17
77	Centene	$877,508,496	56
78	Bayer	$850,128,391	212
79	Honda	$849,832,301	92
80	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
82	SunEdison	$813,584,873	113
83	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
84	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
85	Archer Daniels Midland	$771,819,773	1,116
86	EDF-Electricite de France	$766,205,550	36
87	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$764,594,690	217
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	Bank of America	$744,566,157	929
90	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
91	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
92	Koch Industries	$673,998,188	495
93	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	29
94	Wells Fargo	$653,074,103	540
95	Entergy	$638,345,893	234
96	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
97	FedEx	$621,948,452	624
98	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
99	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1

The big-money capitalists hate the government unless it's a plutocratic, oligarchal system under their control. Capitalists hate democratic, republican governments because they serve the public good and hence due to that, capitalists are regulated, taxed, and told "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHIT" and they don't like being told they can't do whatever they want to do, even if it hurts the public. They want to do whatever they want to do, hence they hate democratic, republican governments that aren't under their heel and control.

This bullshit about a "national debt" serves to scare the American public and force the government to privatize everything, placing all of the nation's resources and industries in the hands of the rich. It unnecessarily limits what the government can do to serve the public, as far as developing and maintaining infrastructure and providing public goods and services.

The big-money capitalists (not small business owners/mom-and-pop pizzeria, I'm referring to the big-boys, the Fortune 500s, big corporations) want to control all public resources and assets, capitalizing on EVERYTHING. That's where this fearmongering about the "national debt" comes from. Why don't they ever talk about the "national asset" and only talk about the supposed "national debt"? All debts have assets, right? Who's holding the assets of America's so-called "national debt "? The American people.

The vast majority of assets are in American hands and that which isn't, is mostly in treasury bonds that can very easily be paid by the US Fed Gov. Easy-peasy, bara-bing-bara-boom, the Fed can easily pay any foreign investor who wants to "cash out" their investments. Don't believe whoever tells you otherwise. China doesn't own the USD or our economy, don't believe the hype.

Don't fall for the national debt bullshit. America is the most productive, hardworking country in the world and it has a government with a sovereign fiat currency, which can never go insolvent. Not only do we have a sovereign fiat currency but our USD is the reserve currency of the world, and there's no sign of that changing anytime soon. Even if that happens, we're fine, don't worry, be happy. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and it will always meet its obligations, without going into hyperinflation. Fret not America, don't drink their "national debt" fearmongering Kool-Aid. Relax.

Typo: "..too few goods" not "...to few goods".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The so-called "national debt" isn't really a debt in the sense of a household debt, but it's rather a ledger of how much USD it has inserted into the economy or "spent" into the private sector, without it being returned in taxes:

​

The US Federal Government being the exclusive issuer of the USD, makes it impossible for it to go insolvent. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and provided our country has a GDP (production capacity), in the trillions, our economy will continue to function. There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP, which is now approximately 26 trillion dollars. 26 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

As long as there isn't too much money chasing after to few goods and services and our Fed Gov is allocating its funds towards infrastructural projects/public goods and services that serve and enhance the public's productive capacity, improving people's standard of living, our GDP will continue to grow. We're fine, our economy will continue to expand and there will never be a catastrophic collapse (The USD is a sovereign fiat currency backed by America's GDP/American Muscle).

So your fear of an economic catastrophic failure, due to you comparing our so-called "national debt" to a household debt or private debt is misleading and just wrong. So-called "balanced budgets" at a macroeconomic scale, always hurt the economy. Look at the facts of our history with respect to balanced budgets and recessions. Balanced budgets mean less money in the private sector (in our nation's economy), less private investment, less savings, less less less across the board, for the American people. How is that good? It's not.

View attachment 903698​

More so-called "government debt", more money in the hands of the American people. The government's "red ink" is the American people's "black ink".

You're being misguided by those who hate the government doing anything for the American people. You've been hood-winked by big-money capitalist elites, who abhor the government doing anything other than serving them:

RANK	PARENT	SUBSIDY VALUE.	NUMBER OF AWARDS
1	Boeing	$15,388,954,161	952
2	Intel	$8,355,503,416	127
3	Ford Motor	$7,718,954,966	684
4	General Motors	$7,494,705,750	783
5	Micron Technology	$6,786,681,915	19
6	Alcoa	$5,727,691,764	134
7	Cheniere Energy	$5,617,152,523	43
8	Amazon.com	$5,532,086,473	433
9	Foxconn Technology Group (Hon Hai Precision Industry Company)	$4,820,110,112	74
10	Texas Instruments	$4,286,328,869	69
11	Volkswagen	$3,880,517,317	209
12	Sempra Energy	$3,828,022,782	51
13	NRG Energy	$3,405,383,876	264
14	Venture Global LNG	$3,285,883,566	6
15	NextEra Energy	$3,008,691,129	116
16	Sasol	$2,836,049,845	72
17	Tesla Inc.	$2,829,855,494	114
18	Stellantis	$2,795,436,436	213
19	Nucor	$2,518,064,340	171
20	Walt Disney	$2,483,328,762	255
21	SkyWest	$2,418,120,282	981
22	Iberdrola	$2,380,537,196	109
23	Toyota	$2,304,226,689	237
24	Shell PLC	$2,210,816,246	131
25	Samsung	$2,178,196,443	83
26	Oracle	$2,167,890,528	90
27	Mubadala Investment Company	$2,124,035,097	62
28	Nike	$2,104,917,829	153
29	Hyundai Motor	$2,048,610,159	17
30	Alphabet Inc.	$2,010,825,527	124
31	Brookfield Asset Management	$1,968,826,437	231
32	Meta Platforms Inc.	$1,963,051,772	61
33	Exxon Mobil	$1,906,554,975	227
34	Paramount Global	$1,845,796,313	332
35	Nissan	$1,842,814,165	98
36	Apple Inc.	$1,833,837,442	61
37	Comcast	$1,827,808,120	390
38	Berkshire Hathaway	$1,821,579,761	1,190
39	Summit Power	$1,783,593,414	6
40	General Electric	$1,737,066,990	994
41	Air Products & Chemicals	$1,726,928,435	87
42	Cleveland-Cliffs	$1,705,497,604	129
43	Southern Company	$1,694,958,172	45
44	Energy Transfer	$1,680,763,748	155
45	JPMorgan Chase	$1,663,593,063	1,147
46	Vornado Realty Trust	$1,623,857,336	33
47	Duke Energy	$1,580,417,759	86
48	Wolfspeed Inc.	$1,560,125,015	63
49	Rivian Automotive Inc.	$1,532,854,012	3
50	IBM Corp.	$1,495,438,545	367
51	General Atomics	$1,476,687,046	111
52	OGE Energy	$1,427,570,182	15
53	SCS Energy	$1,419,011,796	5
54	Panasonic	$1,384,147,584	61
55	Microsoft	$1,363,926,937	111
56	Lockheed Martin	$1,334,594,360	319
57	Sagamore Development	$1,320,000,000	2
58	Northrop Grumman	$1,275,514,883	284
59	Corning Inc.	$1,262,885,869	389
60	Vingroup	$1,254,000,000	1
61	Continental AG	$1,244,875,478	111
62	RTX Corporation	$1,168,240,858	779
63	Jefferies Financial Group	$1,144,919,260	17
64	SK Holdings	$1,081,550,283	9
65	Valero Energy	$1,053,812,692	207
66	Dow Inc.	$1,049,354,213	640
67	AES Corp.	$1,030,194,632	132
68	Hyannis Air Service Inc.	$1,018,366,272	417
69	Abengoa	$988,188,652	43
70	Exelon	$982,955,949	57
71	CF Industries	$982,271,715	129
72	Pyramid Companies	$966,050,097	91
73	Mazda Toyota Manufacturing, U.S.A., Inc.	$900,000,000	1
74	Apollo Global Management	$896,345,186	586
75	LG	$881,567,511	87
76	Delta Air Lines	$878,093,932	17
77	Centene	$877,508,496	56
78	Bayer	$850,128,391	212
79	Honda	$849,832,301	92
80	Shin-Etsu Chemical	$828,683,936	106
81	Enterprise Products Partners	$826,988,371	89
82	SunEdison	$813,584,873	113
83	Goldman Sachs	$800,873,386	253
84	E.ON	$782,609,880	38
85	Archer Daniels Midland	$771,819,773	1,116
86	EDF-Electricite de France	$766,205,550	36
87	Warner Bros. Discovery Inc.	$764,594,690	217
88	Triple Five Worldwide	$748,000,000	4
89	Bank of America	$744,566,157	929
90	EDP-Energias de Portugal	$733,674,868	14
91	Related Companies	$687,200,000	1
92	Koch Industries	$673,998,188	495
93	Caithness Energy	$670,379,738	29
94	Wells Fargo	$653,074,103	540
95	Entergy	$638,345,893	234
96	OCI N.V.	$627,879,406	5
97	FedEx	$621,948,452	624
98	Chevron Phillips Chemical	$619,839,444	20
99	Bedrock Detroit	$618,000,000	1

The big-money capitalists hate the government unless it's a plutocratic, oligarchal system under their control. Capitalists hate democratic, republican governments because they serve the public good and hence due to that, capitalists are regulated, taxed, and told "NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT SHIT" and they don't like being told they can't do whatever they want to do, even if it hurts the public. They want to do whatever they want to do, hence they hate democratic, republican governments that aren't under their heel and control.

This bullshit about a "national debt" serves to scare the American public and force the government to privatize everything, placing all of the nation's resources and industries in the hands of the rich. It unnecessarily limits what the government can do to serve the public, as far as developing and maintaining infrastructure and providing public goods and services.

The big-money capitalists (not small business owners/mom-and-pop pizzeria, I'm referring to the big-boys, the Fortune 500s, big corporations) want to control all public resources and assets, capitalizing on EVERYTHING. That's where this fearmongering about the "national debt" comes from. Why don't they ever talk about the "national asset" and only talk about the supposed "national debt"? All debts have assets, right? Who's holding the assets of America's so-called "national debt "? The American people.

The vast majority of assets are in American hands and that which isn't, is mostly in treasury bonds that can very easily be paid by the US Fed Gov. Easy-peasy, bara-bing-bara-boom, the Fed can easily pay any foreign investor who wants to "cash out" their investments. Don't believe whoever tells you otherwise. China doesn't own the USD or our economy, don't believe the hype.

Don't fall for the national debt bullshit. America is the most productive, hardworking country in the world and it has a government with a sovereign fiat currency, which can never go insolvent. Not only do we have a sovereign fiat currency but our USD is the reserve currency of the world, and there's no sign of that changing anytime soon. Even if that happens, we're fine, don't worry, be happy. The US Fed Gov will never run out of USD and it will always meet its obligations, without going into hyperinflation. Fret not America, don't drink their "national debt" fearmongering Kool-Aid. Relax.

There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP, which is now approximately 26 trillion dollars. 26 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

The federal government can spend 100% of GDP without hyperinflation?
What economic theory taught you that?

 

[Red Front]

There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP, which is now approximately 26 trillion dollars. 26 TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!

The federal government can spend 100% of GDP without hyperinflation?
What economic theory taught you that?

Who said that? I didn't.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Who said that? I didn't.

If GDP is $26 trillion, can the federal government spend $25 trillion with no hyperinflation?

 

[Red Front]

If GDP is $26 trillion, can the federal government spend $25 trillion with no hyperinflation?

​

It's not self-evident to you that the US Federal Government budget shouldn't be 96% of GDP? Is it necessary to spend 25 trillion dollars in a year? What the hell would the government be spending that money on? Infrastructure? By the time the US Federal Government's annual budget is 25 trillion, our GDP will be more than triple or quadruple that. That's perhaps 70+ years from now. Can you imagine the technology that will be available 50, 70 years from now? How efficient production will be at that time? Our nation's production capacity is going to expand exponentially in the next few decades, but I wouldn't be in favor of a Fed Gov yearly budget of 96% GDP. That's absurd.

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

​

It's not self-evident to you that the US Federal Government budget shouldn't be 96% of GDP? Is it necessary to spend 25 trillion dollars in a year? What the hell would the government be spending that money on? Infrastructure? By the time the US Federal Government's annual budget is 25 trillion, our GDP will be more than triple or quadruple that. That's perhaps 70+ years from now. Can you imagine the technology that will be available 50, 70 years from now? How efficient production will be at that time? Our nation's production capacity is going to expand exponentially in the next few decades, but I wouldn't be in favor of a Fed Gov yearly budget of 96% GDP. That's absurd.

​

I'm trying to get a better understanding of your claim, "There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP".

What is it based on? Any real-world examples supporting your claim?

 

[Red Front]

I'm trying to get a better understanding of your claim, "There will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP".

What is it based on? Any real-world examples supporting your claim?

The very nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending informs us. Too much money following not enough goods and services, is the primary danger of printing too much money, allocating those funds into useless, non-productive projects. That's why almost all of the government's spending should be allocated to national infrastructure and public goods and services. That which expands production, is essentially any spending that is for the public good, improving people's lives. The more practical the spending the better.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The very nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending informs us. Too much money following not enough goods and services, is the primary danger of printing too much money, allocating those funds into useless, non-productive projects. That's why almost all of the government's spending should be allocated to national infrastructure and public goods and services. That which expands production, is essentially any spending that is for the public good, improving people's lives. The more practical the spending the better.

The very nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending informs us.

How did the nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending inform you that there will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP?

 

[Red Front]

The very nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending informs us.

How did the nature of hyperinflation and deficit spending inform you that there will be no hyperinflation provided the US Fed Gov limits its budget below the nation's GDP?

If you believe that the government issuing money at 20% GDP is going to cause hyperinflation, believe that. How would it create hyperinflation? On what grounds do you assume there would be too much money in the economy and too few goods and services to meet the demand? Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you believe that the government issuing money at 20% GDP is going to cause hyperinflation, believe that. How would it create hyperinflation? On what grounds do you assume there would be too much money in the economy and too few goods and services to meet the demand? Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

You have no evidence for your claim? I'm shocked.

 

[Red Front]

You have no evidence for your claim? I'm shocked.

Where is your evidence that if the US government spends 20% of GDP that will create hyperinflation? Too much money in the economy, chasing after an insufficient amount of goods and services. Give me an example of that. You're speaking nonsense, like always.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Where is your evidence that if the US government spends 20% of GDP that will create hyperinflation?

Where is your evidence that if the US government limits its budget below the nation's GDP,
there will be no hyperinflation?

 

[Red Front]

Where is your evidence that if the US government limits its budget below the nation's GDP,
there will be no hyperinflation?

Where is your evidence that if the US Federal Government runs a deficit and doesn't spend more than the nation's GDP, it will result in hyperinflation?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

It's an inherent flaw with any usury (interest). The aggregate obligation (principal & interest) far exceeds the whole set of available money tokens. In other words, the money needed for all to pay their creditors DOES NOT EXIST.
Look at the USA's national debt.
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
NATIONAL DEBT = $32.726 trillion dollars
(Debt per citizen = $97,606 dollars)
INTEREST = $664.93 billion dollar bills

Federal Reserve Balance Sheet: Factors Affecting Reserve Balances - H.4.1 - November 16, 2023
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . Aug. 23, 2023
Currency in circulation . . . 2,328,554 millions (2.3 trillions)

[Note: “Dollar bills” being debt, are part of the 32.7 T national debt. They cannot grow without an increase in the debt. Debt cannot pay debt, having a minus value. Even if the dollar bills could, there isn't enough of them.]

US Population = 335,145,075
Currency (per capita) = $6,947.89 dollar bills.
Discrepancy : $6,947 - $97,606 = -90,659 (shortfall)

This problem extends to all private debt, as well. Outstanding obligations far exceed the volume and value of circulating medium. This is partly masked by the preponderance of "electronic" money transfers. If everyone tried to "cash out" the system would implode, and folks would be fortunate to get microcents on the dollar bill.

Knock, Knock.
Who's There?
Fort Knox.

The government has been selling off its gold to cover the interest on the debt, just like it sold off all its silver. Right now there's $14 trillion in gold, and its value keeps rising because the government manipulates people into buying it.