Why socialism will always end up the same way

[justoffal]

While all of us are taken with the happily ever after scenarios that make some fairy tales so popular we know that reality is not that way. No…reality is instead cruel, pragmatic and totally unaffected by preference. This is why socialism never works. The mainstream schools of thought that promote it are always depending upon the shame factor to help people ignore the harsh realities of proven existence. Whether you look to history or you simply look to your own neighborhood success in life depends on more than just a good feeling or the idea that everyone can succeed regardless of their abilities. It just isn’t true. There’s a reason why the top one percent is the top one percent….like it or not the numbers themselves bear witness to life’s realities. Anyone who doubts this has only to look at how effectively socialism creates a top one percent or even a top .1 percent more quickly and more profoundly than capitalism ever did or ever will.

Indeed the yearning for this mindless egalitarianism produces philosophy that borders on the ludicrous and élan moral that borders on extremism and the ultimate forms of societal intolerance. In effect you have humans taking to the street to protest reality…..the word retarded comes to mind but unfortunately it just doesn’t do the job. So each generation must have its Stalin or its Mao before it learns the lesson again and again and again. We cycle through each catastrophic morphing of the deadly philosophy before we bust back down to the inescapable reality that life is not necessarily fair, that not everyone can achieve levels of dominance like the top one percent does and that all of the reasons we offer to explain that sad collection of facts usually fall short of the simple truth that the pattern is inescapable and will never stop repeating.

JO

 

[danielpalos]

Government is social-ism (socialism). True free market Capitalism only exists in the third world since the fall of Mogadishu. And, Capitalism in the US "died in 1929" and was bailed out by FDR's brand of socialism.

 

[midcan5]

Socialism like capitalism like any ism is just a word, a concept and not a reality. America has many elements of socialism already, but for some reason concepts become sticks and not ways of managing society. It's what you do that matters as Stalin Hitler Mao demonstrated so clearly.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright

"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly." Norman Thomas

"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'

Ill Fares the Land

Something is profoundly wrong with the way we think abo…

www.goodreads.com

 

[justoffal]

Government is social-ism (socialism). True free market Capitalism only exists in the third world since the fall of Mogadishu. And, Capitalism in the US "died in 1929" and was bailed out by FDR's brand of socialism.

Sure to a certain extent but the socialism on the lips of todays activists is devoid of that depth of thought. They simply see inequality and have no way of translating that into real time data and reading it for what it is. Their cause is ultimately doomed.

 

[danielpalos]

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

 

[justoffal]

Socialism like capitalism like any ism is just a word, a concept and not a reality. America has many elements of socialism already, but for some reason concepts become sticks and not ways of managing society. It's what you do that matters as Stalin Hitler Mao demonstrated so clearly.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright

"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly." Norman Thomas

"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'

Ill Fares the Land

Something is profoundly wrong with the way we think abo…

www.goodreads.com

Well said.....I tried to access the book through Amazon but the source is a european server exchange that does not ship to the US..... I will go to Barnes and Noble today.
Having said that there is much, much more wrong with the idea of pure socialism than I see in some of the quotes.....I look at it from the standpoint of an engineer....
It lacks the necessary elements to create a successful machine .... that simple. While it is true that many parts or our system are socialistic.... Social security for instance is a rather pure form of it....it is also true that any social elements we enjoy today are more or less totally dependent on the underlayment of the capitalist construct that is already there IMO.

 

[occupied]

Socialism rises from the failures of the market to serve some crucial need in society. There are some things you can't squeeze a profit from.

 

[justoffal]

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.

Good point

 

[justoffal]

Socialism rises from the failures of the market to serve some crucial need in society. There are some things you can't squeeze a profit from.

Oh I absolutely agree and once again I would never see capitalism as a perfect system only the most successful one. A wise man from Nazareth once said " You will always have the poor with you "......

 

[Penelope]

“America will never be a socialist country,” Donald Trump declared in his State of the Union address. Someone should alert Trump that America is now a hotbed of socialism. But it is socialism for the rich. Everyone else is treated to harsh capitalism.
snip


Trump is promoting socialism for the rich and harsh capitalism for everyone else in other ways. GM has got more than $600m in federal contracts, plus $500m in tax breaks. Some of this has gone into the pockets of GM executives. Chairman and CEO Mary Barra raked in almost $22m in total compensation in 2017 alone.

But GM employees are subject to harsh capitalism. GM is planning to lay off more than 14,000 workers and close three assembly plants and two component factories in North America by the end of 2019.

When he was in business, Trump perfected the art of using bankruptcy to shield himself from the consequences of bad decisions – socialism for the rich at its worst – while leaving employees twisting in the wind.

Trump offers socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else | Robert Reich

It’s the wealthiest Americans who are getting something for nothing, writes Robert Reich, a former US secretary of labor

www.theguardian.com

 

[justoffal]

“America will never be a socialist country,” Donald Trump declared in his State of the Union address. Someone should alert Trump that America is now a hotbed of socialism. But it is socialism for the rich. Everyone else is treated to harsh capitalism.
snip


Trump is promoting socialism for the rich and harsh capitalism for everyone else in other ways. GM has got more than $600m in federal contracts, plus $500m in tax breaks. Some of this has gone into the pockets of GM executives. Chairman and CEO Mary Barra raked in almost $22m in total compensation in 2017 alone.

But GM employees are subject to harsh capitalism. GM is planning to lay off more than 14,000 workers and close three assembly plants and two component factories in North America by the end of 2019.

When he was in business, Trump perfected the art of using bankruptcy to shield himself from the consequences of bad decisions – socialism for the rich at its worst – while leaving employees twisting in the wind.

Trump offers socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else | Robert Reich

It’s the wealthiest Americans who are getting something for nothing, writes Robert Reich, a former US secretary of labor

www.theguardian.com

Gonna agree with you here....though I must warn you that all successful businessmen of every stripe use Bankruptcy frequently because it is an essential element of doing business in our society. Michael Bloomberg has many, many more legal declarations of chapter 7,11 and 13 than does Trump. Like it or not all of us who have anything at all to speak of got it from some rich guy somewhere in the past or the present....nuff said.

Look....it's not that I ever cared for Trump as a person....I never did. However our system is what it is and that is far beyond any of the historical why's and what-nots that partisans like to promote as to why that happened. In a world where the ant overcomes the elephant in a battle of strength the idealists rejoice...but none of them would bet a nickel on the ant.

JO

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism rises from the failures of the market to serve some crucial need in society. There are some things you can't squeeze a profit from.

Oh I absolutely agree and once again I would never see capitalism as a perfect system only the most successful one. A wise man from Nazareth once said " You will always have the poor with you "......

Why is there any Government on Earth if (free market) Capitalism is so successful?

 

[occupied]

Socialism rises from the failures of the market to serve some crucial need in society. There are some things you can't squeeze a profit from.

Oh I absolutely agree and once again I would never see capitalism as a perfect system only the most successful one. A wise man from Nazareth once said " You will always have the poor with you "......

Too many people think capitalism is the same thing as free enterprise. American capitalism is thing of big banks, billionaires and pet politicians while small businesses get to pretend they are part of the club. They are not.

 

[pknopp]

Sorry, who is yearning for Stalin? You go on about "retarded" but your mind works like this.

I say we have to look after those who are at the bottom.

You read that as I am yearning for Stalin.

There is something wrong with your head.

 

[frigidweirdo]

While all of us are taken with the happily ever after scenarios that make some fairy tales so popular we know that reality is not that way. No…reality is instead cruel, pragmatic and totally unaffected by preference. This is why socialism never works. The mainstream schools of thought that promote it are always depending upon the shame factor to help people ignore the harsh realities of proven existence. Whether you look to history or you simply look to your own neighborhood success in life depends on more than just a good feeling or the idea that everyone can succeed regardless of their abilities. It just isn’t true. There’s a reason why the top one percent is the top one percent….like it or not the numbers themselves bear witness to life’s realities. Anyone who doubts this has only to look at how effectively socialism creates a top one percent or even a top .1 percent more quickly and more profoundly than capitalism ever did or ever will.

Indeed the yearning for this mindless egalitarianism produces philosophy that borders on the ludicrous and élan moral that borders on extremism and the ultimate forms of societal intolerance. In effect you have humans taking to the street to protest reality…..the word retarded comes to mind but unfortunately it just doesn’t do the job. So each generation must have its Stalin or its Mao before it learns the lesson again and again and again. We cycle through each catastrophic morphing of the deadly philosophy before we bust back down to the inescapable reality that life is not necessarily fair, that not everyone can achieve levels of dominance like the top one percent does and that all of the reasons we offer to explain that sad collection of facts usually fall short of the simple truth that the pattern is inescapable and will never stop repeating.

JO

The problem is very few countries have done Socialism (rather than socialism).

But China, Vietnam, Laos are all pushing ahead and have a sort of Socialism.

 

[Votto]

Socialism like capitalism like any ism is just a word, a concept and not a reality. America has many elements of socialism already, but for some reason concepts become sticks and not ways of managing society. It's what you do that matters as Stalin Hitler Mao demonstrated so clearly.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright

"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly." Norman Thomas

"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'

Ill Fares the Land

Something is profoundly wrong with the way we think abo…

www.goodreads.com

Well said.....I tried to access the book through Amazon but the source is a european server exchange that does not ship to the US..... I will go to Barnes and Noble today.
Having said that there is much, much more wrong with the idea of pure socialism than I see in some of the quotes.....I look at it from the standpoint of an engineer....
It lacks the necessary elements to create a successful machine .... that simple. While it is true that many parts or our system are socialistic.... Social security for instance is a rather pure form of it....it is also true that any social elements we enjoy today are more or less totally dependent on the underlayment of the capitalist construct that is already there IMO.

Pure socialism? What in this world is pure other than BS?

Looking at world history, the reason why Left wing ideology is so popular today and in the past and why tyrants seems to be drawn to socialism and Marxism, which has murdered far more people than any other ideology in the last century, is not because they like the idea, rather, it is because to try and successfully implement it the state needs 100% control over every aspect of your life. Think of it, for the state to monitor every financial transaction and then redistribute the money exchange the way they see fit, it takes a tremendous amount of surveillance and man power to implement this for every citizen. That is the draw of socialism for despots. All they care about is power and control.. Outside of that, they really don't give a damn and, as a result, will never seek "pure" socialism. If they did care about economic justice, they would not all live like kings compared to the average citizen, but they do every single time and always will.

What is ironic is, as those who whine about the top 1% having life so much better and push socialism as an alternative, what they are really attempting to do is shrink the top 1% down even further to maybe the top 0,001%. Maybe then they will all be happy?

LOL.

 

[Votto]

While all of us are taken with the happily ever after scenarios that make some fairy tales so popular we know that reality is not that way. No…reality is instead cruel, pragmatic and totally unaffected by preference. This is why socialism never works. The mainstream schools of thought that promote it are always depending upon the shame factor to help people ignore the harsh realities of proven existence. Whether you look to history or you simply look to your own neighborhood success in life depends on more than just a good feeling or the idea that everyone can succeed regardless of their abilities. It just isn’t true. There’s a reason why the top one percent is the top one percent….like it or not the numbers themselves bear witness to life’s realities. Anyone who doubts this has only to look at how effectively socialism creates a top one percent or even a top .1 percent more quickly and more profoundly than capitalism ever did or ever will.

Indeed the yearning for this mindless egalitarianism produces philosophy that borders on the ludicrous and élan moral that borders on extremism and the ultimate forms of societal intolerance. In effect you have humans taking to the street to protest reality…..the word retarded comes to mind but unfortunately it just doesn’t do the job. So each generation must have its Stalin or its Mao before it learns the lesson again and again and again. We cycle through each catastrophic morphing of the deadly philosophy before we bust back down to the inescapable reality that life is not necessarily fair, that not everyone can achieve levels of dominance like the top one percent does and that all of the reasons we offer to explain that sad collection of facts usually fall short of the simple truth that the pattern is inescapable and will never stop repeating.

JO

The problem is very few countries have done Socialism (rather than socialism).

But China, Vietnam, Laos are all pushing ahead and have a sort of Socialism.

But you have demagogues like Bernie Sanders refer to both Western Europe and North Korea as "socialist". Does he understand that the two have stark differences or is he really that ignorant? Either way, you are looking at those in power in the US today who are either liars or, at best, incompetent law makers who don't know what they are doing. Either way, it is frightening because they are on the verge of changing your country as they lie to its citizens while doing it.

 

[occupied]

Socialism like capitalism like any ism is just a word, a concept and not a reality. America has many elements of socialism already, but for some reason concepts become sticks and not ways of managing society. It's what you do that matters as Stalin Hitler Mao demonstrated so clearly.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright

"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly." Norman Thomas

"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'

Ill Fares the Land

Something is profoundly wrong with the way we think abo…

www.goodreads.com

Well said.....I tried to access the book through Amazon but the source is a european server exchange that does not ship to the US..... I will go to Barnes and Noble today.
Having said that there is much, much more wrong with the idea of pure socialism than I see in some of the quotes.....I look at it from the standpoint of an engineer....
It lacks the necessary elements to create a successful machine .... that simple. While it is true that many parts or our system are socialistic.... Social security for instance is a rather pure form of it....it is also true that any social elements we enjoy today are more or less totally dependent on the underlayment of the capitalist construct that is already there IMO.

Pure socialism? What in this world is pure other than BS?

Looking at world history, the reason why Left wing ideology is so popular today and in the past and why tyrants seems to be drawn to socialism and Marxism, which has murdered far more people than any other ideology in the last century, is not because they like the idea, rather, it is because to try and successfully implement it the state needs 100% control over every aspect of your life. Think of it, for the state to monitor every financial transaction and then redistribute the money exchange the way they see fit, it takes a tremendous amount of surveillance and man power to implement this for every citizen. That is the draw of socialism for despots. All they care about is power and control.. Outside of that, they really don't give a damn and, as a result, will never seek "pure" socialism. If they did care about economic justice, they would not all live like kings compared to the average citizen, but they do every single time and always will.

What is ironic is, as those who whine about the top 1% having life so much better and push socialism as an alternative, what they are really attempting to do is shrink the top 1% down even further to maybe the top 0,001%. Maybe then they will all be happy?

LOL.

Any time you see socialism attempted as the main economic system if you look at what happened before you'll never see a prosperous nation. You'll see a brutal monarchy or an entirely corrupt plutocracy of some kind that decided the poor can just rot. Socialism rises from poverty and hunger that went on too long.

 

[danielpalos]

Should we proclaim we have representative Capitalism in our representative Republic?

 

[Votto]

Socialism like capitalism like any ism is just a word, a concept and not a reality. America has many elements of socialism already, but for some reason concepts become sticks and not ways of managing society. It's what you do that matters as Stalin Hitler Mao demonstrated so clearly.

"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice; socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality." Mikhail Bakunin

"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Ronald Wright

"The difference between Democrats and Republicans is: Democrats have accepted some ideas of Socialism cheerfully, while Republicans have accepted them reluctantly." Norman Thomas

"Moreover, if we give the matter a moment's thought, we can see that the 20th century morality tale of 'socialism vs. freedom' or 'communism vs. capitalism' is misleading. Capitalism is not a political system; it is a form of economic life, compatible in practice with right wing dictatorships (Chile under Pinochet), left-wing dictatorships (contemporary China), social-democratic monarchies (Sweden), and plutocratic republics (the United States), whether capitalist economies thrive best under conditions of freedom is perhaps more of an open question than we like to think." Tony Judt 'Ill fares the Land'

Ill Fares the Land

Something is profoundly wrong with the way we think abo…

www.goodreads.com

Well said.....I tried to access the book through Amazon but the source is a european server exchange that does not ship to the US..... I will go to Barnes and Noble today.
Having said that there is much, much more wrong with the idea of pure socialism than I see in some of the quotes.....I look at it from the standpoint of an engineer....
It lacks the necessary elements to create a successful machine .... that simple. While it is true that many parts or our system are socialistic.... Social security for instance is a rather pure form of it....it is also true that any social elements we enjoy today are more or less totally dependent on the underlayment of the capitalist construct that is already there IMO.

Pure socialism? What in this world is pure other than BS?

Looking at world history, the reason why Left wing ideology is so popular today and in the past and why tyrants seems to be drawn to socialism and Marxism, which has murdered far more people than any other ideology in the last century, is not because they like the idea, rather, it is because to try and successfully implement it the state needs 100% control over every aspect of your life. Think of it, for the state to monitor every financial transaction and then redistribute the money exchange the way they see fit, it takes a tremendous amount of surveillance and man power to implement this for every citizen. That is the draw of socialism for despots. All they care about is power and control.. Outside of that, they really don't give a damn and, as a result, will never seek "pure" socialism. If they did care about economic justice, they would not all live like kings compared to the average citizen, but they do every single time and always will.

What is ironic is, as those who whine about the top 1% having life so much better and push socialism as an alternative, what they are really attempting to do is shrink the top 1% down even further to maybe the top 0,001%. Maybe then they will all be happy?

LOL.

Any time you see socialism attempted as the main economic system if you look at what happened before you'll never see a prosperous nation. You'll see a brutal monarchy or an entirely corrupt plutocracy of some kind that decided the poor can just rot. Socialism rises from poverty and hunger that went on too long.

You make a good point, and that is, people turn to socialism in desperation. Thus, socialism usually is sold to the populace as an alternative to bad economic times, and the only way to avoid them in the future. But as history proves, it is all based on a lie and once it is implemented, they are far worse off than before as what little freedoms they had before disappear forever.

There is no going back. That is the chilling aspect.

But in the US, we have an interesting phenomenon. We have a populace who are the wealthiest in the world, yet are being dragged towards socialism day by day. Is it then any wonder that the socialists being elected to government support policies that will help destroy the economy? Yes, they also believe that for people to fully embrace socialism as a nation, they must be so desperate as to feel as though they have no other choice.