Why should a hamburger flipper make the same as a highly skilled worker???

[Marxist]

Really? Tell me more about our role in stopping the vietnam elections when we knew Ho chi would get the people's support.

What elections and where exactly?

the non-communist Vietnamese delegation objected strenuously to any division of Vietnam, but lost out when the French accepted the proposal of Viet Minh delegatePhạm Văn Đồng,[60] who proposed that Vietnam eventually be united by elections under the supervision of "local commissions".[61] The United States countered with what became known as the "American Plan," with the support of South Vietnam and the United Kingdom.[62] It provided for unification elections under the supervision of the United Nations, but was rejected by the Soviet delegation and North Vietnamese.[62]

I thought you said we stopped election and your own link says otherwise. Why they rejected it?

Bottom line, communists cant win election unless they're only choice on the ballot.

Maybe because it was called the american plan and was going to be supervised by the UN, who, with the US, didn't have a good track record at this point.

 

[Ame®icano]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

 

[Marxist]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

 

[Ame®icano]

[

This is a misattribution. This was not said by Hitler, this was said by Gregor Strasser, an early Nazi who was purged from the party in 1934.

Talk Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Are you saying Hitler was member of the party that he didnt agree with.

And in "night of long knives", everyone who did not accepted Hitler was killed.

 

[Marxist]

[

This is a misattribution. This was not said by Hitler, this was said by Gregor Strasser, an early Nazi who was purged from the party in 1934.

Talk Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Are you saying Hitler was member of the party that he didnt agree with.

And in "night of long knives", everyone who did not accepted Hitler was killed.

The party that did nothing even close to socialism? He did this to appeal to the lower class, that was it, quit being an idiot.

 

[Ame®icano]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

 

[Marxist]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

 

[Ame®icano]

[

This is a misattribution. This was not said by Hitler, this was said by Gregor Strasser, an early Nazi who was purged from the party in 1934.

Talk Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Are you saying Hitler was member of the party that he didnt agree with.

And in "night of long knives", everyone who did not accepted Hitler was killed.

The party that did nothing even close to socialism? He did this to appeal to the lower class, that was it, quit being an idiot.

Thats what every socialist and communist dictator does until he gains power. Its all about the workers, proletariat, and don't forget children. We are just like you...

 

[Ame®icano]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

 

[Marxist]

They were not socialist in any way, and straight out lied if they said they were, and they were all bad to some degree, but I happen to know a capitalist dictator who threw pregnant women out of helicopters..

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

There was never socialism in the first place.

 

[Marxist]

[

This is a misattribution. This was not said by Hitler, this was said by Gregor Strasser, an early Nazi who was purged from the party in 1934.

Talk Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Are you saying Hitler was member of the party that he didnt agree with.

And in "night of long knives", everyone who did not accepted Hitler was killed.

The party that did nothing even close to socialism? He did this to appeal to the lower class, that was it, quit being an idiot.

Thats what every socialist and communist dictator does until he gains power. Its all about the workers, proletariat, and don't forget children. We are just like you...

Not socialism, look at some actual examples. .-.

 

[Ame®icano]

Sure, traditional leftist deception of saying one and doing the other, that continues to today date.

Nazi Germany was socialist state ruled by National Socialist German Workers Party. What other system would you expect from the government ruled by the party that has socialist in its name?

Only communists and liberals claim that Nazi's were capitalists because most of industries in Nazi Germany appeared to be left in private hands. The truth is, government and not private owners were holding all powers of ownership, meaning decision making what is to be produced, how much is to be produced, where is to be produced and where is to be distributed and for what price. They also controlled wages of the workers and profit or dividends paid to private owners. Not to mention, what would happen to private owners that did not agree to the offered deal.

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

There was never socialism in the first place.

There were intentions that resulted in all I mentioned above. Hitler was national socialist. Nazi Germany policies were de facto socialist policies where the government exercises all the powers over private ownership. At that point it doesn't matter who own the means of production, but who controls it.

 

[Marxist]

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

There was never socialism in the first place.

There were intentions that resulted in all I mentioned above. Hitler was national socialist. Nazi Germany policies were de facto socialist policies where the government exercises all the powers over private ownership. At that point it doesn't matter who own the means of production, but who controls it.

Socialism doesn't advocate anything you've said, it advocates workers owning production. Keep up the BS

 

[Ame®icano]

I know, it doesn't fit your agenda...

Under Nazi Socialists everything was about the state, about collectivism, about common good before private good, individuals (ant his property) exist as a mean to support the state. They introduced price and wage control to stop, or slow down the inflation caused by their own money printing needed to support government spending on social programs, public works and military spending.

Does it sounds familiar? Every socialist country did that, from USSR and all eastern block, to China and south American communists today.

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

There was never socialism in the first place.

There were intentions that resulted in all I mentioned above. Hitler was national socialist. Nazi Germany policies were de facto socialist policies where the government exercises all the powers over private ownership. At that point it doesn't matter who own the means of production, but who controls it.

Socialism doesn't advocate anything you've said, it advocates workers owning production. Keep up the BS

If government controls the production, controls the wages and prices, it doesn't matter who owns the means of production.

Even in USSR workers did not own the means of production, although they were let to believe so, the government did. So if government own something, it belong to the people, right? Could people sell that was theirs? Nope. Then, they don't own it.

 

[Marxist]

That's not socialism.

True, that's aftermath of socialism.

There was never socialism in the first place.

There were intentions that resulted in all I mentioned above. Hitler was national socialist. Nazi Germany policies were de facto socialist policies where the government exercises all the powers over private ownership. At that point it doesn't matter who own the means of production, but who controls it.

Socialism doesn't advocate anything you've said, it advocates workers owning production. Keep up the BS

If government controls the production, controls the wages and prices, it doesn't matter who owns the means of production.

Even in USSR workers did not own the means of production, although they were let to believe so, the government did. So if government own something, it belong to the people, right? Could people sell that was theirs? Nope. Then, they don't own it.

 

[Ame®icano]

Btw, Marxist... I was waiting for you to answer, but you keep ignoring my question.
It's not first time, you did it in another thread few days ago.

If that continues, there is no point of having further conversation.

 

[Marxist]

Btw, Marxist... I was waiting for you to answer, but you keep ignoring my question.
It's not first time, you did it in another thread few days ago.

If that continues, there is no point of having further conversation.

The government has to be democratic, and truly democratic, not influenced by capitalists. Hitler was influenced by industrial capitalists.

 

[bripat9643]

True, but you read the later, not the former.

Are you telling me america never put in place a psychopatic dictator in chile who slaughtered his own people? That batista was better off then castro?

The United States had nothing to do with putting Pinochet in power, and he was hardly a psychopath. He was a true patriot who saved his country from communist scum like you.

The people of Cuba were most definitely better off than they are under the Castro regime. Just ask any Cuban living in Florida.

Pinochet was a psychopath.

And yes, we did help him gain power.

Chile is an economic success story - especially when you compare it to Cuba, as both were roughly about as wealthy as each other in 1960. But whitewashing history doesn't help your argument.

If you have any evidence aside from your opinion that Pinochet was a psychopath, please post it. I'm interested in seeing it.

And, no, the U.S. government did nothing to help Pinochet gain power. That's a left-wing myth. during the election where Allende was elected the CIA gave some of the opposition parties assistance with their campaigns. That's the extent of U.S. involvement.

Before Castro came to power, Cuba was the wealthiest country in Latin America.

Among the most infamous methods of murder involved Pinochet's henchmen dropping pregnant women out of aeroplanes. He believed this was a way of avenging soldiers killed by Allende's supporters. He was quoted to have said "If you kill the *****, you kill off the offspring."[23]

Sounds like a ******* psychopath to me.

I notice there's no link for your "quote." That means it's bullshit.

 

[bripat9643]

Chileans didn't prosper under Pinochet. Quite the opposite. Wages dropped, prices rose. The rich got fabulously wealthy and the poor died miserably. Capitalism has boom and bust cycles, under which the poor survive during boom times, and suffer when the bubbles burst.

Under capitalism, poor people get poorer. In a social democracy, the boom and bust cycles are blunted by the social safety net. It is the social safety net that keeps the poor from suffering.

You need to study history and economics.

It's hard to get facts into your thick head. Under Pinochet, Chile was controlled by military. You keep talking about capitalism and there wasn't. It was necessity to prevent communist from taking power. It happened in Brasil, Bolivia, Argentina, Colombia, Uruguay, Peru... and they all pretty much ended up military rule and returned to democracy and constitutional republics.

Communism from taking power? So, we can't let other countries decide what to do democratically if we don't agree with it?

They did it themselves. Their own military stepped in to prevent countries being destroyed by commies and ending up like Cuba. Btw, Castro is pure example of getting in power democratic way.

Really? Tell me more about our role in stopping the vietnam elections when we knew Ho chi would get the people's support.

You mean when the commies started murdering anyone who didn't support the communists?

 

[bripat9643]

Btw, Marxist... I was waiting for you to answer, but you keep ignoring my question.
It's not first time, you did it in another thread few days ago.

If that continues, there is no point of having further conversation.

The government has to be democratic, and truly democratic, not influenced by capitalists. Hitler was influenced by industrial capitalists.

So a government that is "influenced by capitalists" isn't democratic? How do you solve that problem, by murdering anyone with money?