Why Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum was killed, etc.

[Old Rocks]

Teddy, you painted yourself into a corner as a fruitloop. Finicum committed suicide by cop. Evident for all to see. And the last holdouts at the Refuge demonstrated the state of mind of the cretins that created the problem. Ain't none of them going to get their pot for a good long while.

 

[Skylar]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

This whole 'oregon occupation' was a complete clusterfuck for the militia movement. An embarrassment that demonstrated the absurdity of their narrative. There aren't enough palms for these poor souls to put their their face in on that last, hour long rant given by the final 'occupier'.

Ranging in topics from aliens to how world war 2 was faked to a weed shortage to how he didn't want to have anal sex in prison. There's a reason why when the militia 'put out the call'.....

No one answered.

There's a furious attempt to polish this turd.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop. We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

The worst thing LaVoy did was to reach into his coat. It's not clear, especially at the time, whether he was reaching for a gun or his lottery tickets. And by doing so, yes the cops had every right and responsibility to shoot him dead. Death by suicide by cop.

 

[Skylar]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop.

Finnicum and Ammon had been ordered to surrender to lawful felony warrants for their arrest. Finnicum refused. For 7 full minutes he wouldn't get out of his car, he wouldn't surrender. Here's the video:



Ammon surrendered and was fine. Finnicum refused and instead tore off down the road, leading the cops on a high speed chase.

After running from the cops trying to serve a lawful warrant.....why would the cops at the blockade have ANY expectation that Finnicum would stop? He barely swerved in time, coming within inches of hitting one of the police vehicles and running a cop down.

We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

Could they? Remember, Lavoy was reaching for a very real gun. And had already sworn he wouldn't spend a day in a concrete box. Why would the cops endanger themselves after Finnicum had already resisted arrest, fled from the FBI, led the cops on a high speed chase, tried to run a police blockade, almost hit a cop and then refused to get on the ground as instructed?

Especially when he was reaching for a real gun?

The cops weren't spectators or outsiders. They were participants. And I think they're in a far better position to know what was necessary than you or I are.

 

[WorldWatcher]

>

People might find the information released by the Sheriff interesting.


http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Finicum_Redacted_Web_3102016.pdf


>>>>

 

[TheOldSchool]

Finnicum likely would have spent the rest of his life in jail. The officer saved the taxpayers some money.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop.

Finnicum and Ammon had been ordered to surrender to lawful felony warrants for their arrest. Finnicum refused. For 7 full minutes he wouldn't get out of his car, he wouldn't surrender. Here's the video:



Ammon surrendered and was fine. Finnicum refused and instead tore off down the road, leading the cops on a high speed chase.

After running from the cops trying to serve a lawful warrant.....why would the cops at the blockade have ANY expectation that Finnicum would stop? He barely swerved in time, coming within inches of hitting one of the police vehicles and running a cop down.

We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

Could they? Remember, Lavoy was reaching for a very real gun. And had already sworn he wouldn't spend a day in a concrete box. Why would the cops endanger themselves after Finnicum had already resisted arrest, fled from the FBI, led the cops on a high speed chase, tried to run a police blockade, almost hit a cop and then refused to get on the ground as instructed?

Especially when he was reaching for a real gun?

The cops weren't spectators or outsiders. They were participants. And I think they're in a far better position to know what was necessary than you or I are.

yes, by outside spectators, I had meant us as the people, not the cops. (psst....I am agreeing with you that the cops didn't have any other recourse BUT to shoot him)

 

[Skylar]

>

People might find the information released by the Sheriff interesting.


http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Finicum_Redacted_Web_3102016.pdf


>>>>

So this is interesting:

_________________
Officer No. 4 said "We are the State police. You are under arrest, and you need to come out of your vehicle with your hands up. Turn your vehicle off."

He said: I'm not going to turn my vehicle off. You are going to have to shoot me.

And I looked over at Officer No. 4 and said "What did he just say to you?" Because I wanted to confirm that's what I'd heard and he said that we are going to have to shoot him. He's not coming out.

So there was, at that point I was organizing a gas plan. So our plan was to use less lethal with orange tips that have an OC chemical in them and fire them through the open window of the passenger side, bounce it of the front windshield on the inside so that could put some gas inside the vehicle and perhaps that would be enough to prevent him from driving off, maybe weaken the constitution, so they might at that point comply with our lawful commands.

While I was organizing that, and they were -the people in the van were dealing with Mr. Payne, Mr. Finicum decided to flee.

So the vehicle -- and I should say that prior to that, when he had said that we were going to shoot him and he wasn't coming out, I got on the radio and informed the team to the north that he's non-compliant, he's stated that he's not going to surrender, and we're go to have to shoot him.

So Mr. Finicum starts to drive off. Pursuit is initiated. I hop back in my vehicle and so does Officer No. 4 and Officer No. 13, and we are a little bit behind the game, because they have sped off and we have to stuff ourselves with all our gear on back inside this vehicle.

As soon as I got back in the vehicle, I got on the radio and informed Officer No 1 that the vehicle was fleeing and it was heading in their direction.

http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Finicum_Redacted_Web_3102016.pdf

 

[Skylar]

Finicum's commitment to die by cop began before he even reached the roadblock.

 

[Skylar]

More from the police report:

"As I'm pulling up, I see Mr. Finicum exit out the driver's door and run through the snow. Initially he had his hands kind of to his side, about shoulder height, and I'm still rollup and I see him, the fi9rst time, take his right hand and dig inside his jacket pocket as if he were reaching for something, and based on my training and experience, and have been in very similar situations numerous times, it appeared to me that he was reaching for a handgun.

I also saw something on his waist band that I couldn't identify at that distance, although I had seen videos before on Youtube of him having a knife that he carried on the front of his belt.

But it didn't look he was reaching for that. It looked like he was digging deeper and reaching for, i n my mind I was thinking a shoulder holster or something like that. ....

....I could see my backdrop, and I could see that there was nobody behind us. And in my mind, I could see where Officer No. 1 was focusing, and I saw that Officer No. 3, and I knew from previous briefing that Officer No. 3 was the less lethal, was going to attempt to use less lethal means if possible. To apprehend if it went to that. I knew he only had a pistol and I knew he was only, in my mind, 10, 15 feet away from Mr. Finicum.

As I stepped up and was moving, I saw Mr. Finicum turn his back toward me and Officer No. 1, and then I saw his right arm again digging deeply toward what I would term as maybe a shoulder holster or something in that vicinity, and he seemed to struggle for a second.

And as I was pulling my scope up, this was occurring. I was pulling my weapon up to shoulder as I'm moving, and trying to take in where Officer No 1 and Officer No. 3 are.

And just as soon as I pulled my rifle up and put the cross hairs on Mr. Finicum, Officer No 1 fired , and I distinctly heard him fire, and I knew it was him firing for whatever reason.

As soon as he fired and my scope came up and was right in the middle of the back of Mr. Finicum, and I squeezed off a single round."

http://sheriff.deschutes.org/Finicum_Redacted_Web_3102016.pdf



They saw Finicum reaching into his jacket twice before they shot. There's also zero indication they had been ordered to kill Finicum. But instead, to apprehend him.

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop. We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

The worst thing LaVoy did was to reach into his coat. It's not clear, especially at the time, whether he was reaching for a gun or his lottery tickets. And by doing so, yes the cops had every right and responsibility to shoot him dead. Death by suicide by cop.

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

 

[Skylar]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop. We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

The worst thing LaVoy did was to reach into his coat. It's not clear, especially at the time, whether he was reaching for a gun or his lottery tickets. And by doing so, yes the cops had every right and responsibility to shoot him dead. Death by suicide by cop.

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

Who says that he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney?

The police on the scene both put the shots from officers as coming AFTER Finicum reached into his jacket. Twice.

Not before.

 

[WorldWatcher]

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

 

[Steve_McGarrett]

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

There is no proof he was reaching for an alleged pistol.

 

[Skylar]

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

There is no proof he was reaching for an alleged pistol.

Other than the video of him reaching for it, two different police officers witnessing him reach for a pistol and the police actually finding a pistol...

....nope, none at all.

And remember, if you're going to malign local law enforcement as liars and unreliable.....then there's no reason to believe anything coming from Maricopa county either.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Check this, here is LaVoy's main video of his grievances:

*snip*

he was killed because he raised arms against federal officers.

how many threads do you net-confederate insurrectionists need to post on this subject?

His arms were not raised AGAINST officers. It's standard procedure when getting out of the vehicle to raise your hands with any police involvement.

The cops were wrong in shooting into the vehicle before they knew if he was going to stop or not, especially if they knew there was a kid in there. Although what sounded like gun shots could have been something else non-lethal. I don't know.

I disagree with this, I believe the officers had every right to shoot that truck as it barreled down on the police barricade. Attempting to stop the truck from hitting fellow officers in the blockade would be under the umbrella of "self-defense" and not only justified, but kind of recommended. At some point the vehicle must be stopped regardless, when he didn't break at all it looked like he was going to ram the barricade, then you have a situation where fellow officers lives are in danger and deadly force is called for.

I did hear somewhere that they had deployed gas shots and flash whatsits but it's unclear what was hitting the truck in the beginning and I've not heard reports confirming nor denying that bullets were hitting the truck (like whatever shattered the passenger window in the cell phone video.)

Yes you are probably right about this because it's unclear as to what was being shot at the vehicle, and whether he was going to stop or not. But he did say in the beginning that he was going to 'meet the sheriff' (or whomever) that would give the idea he did plan to stop. We, as outsiders & spectators can only guess at the true details of the events. The law enforcement could have been firing tear gas or bean bags, not to kill him but to scare him enough to stop.

The worst thing LaVoy did was to reach into his coat. It's not clear, especially at the time, whether he was reaching for a gun or his lottery tickets. And by doing so, yes the cops had every right and responsibility to shoot him dead. Death by suicide by cop.

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

He lowered his arms because he was reaching for his wound after being shot in his kidney while trying to maintain his balance in knee deep snow. He was shot at within seconds as he was exiting the truck. There is cell phone video of this.

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

BULL to both. There were plenty of 'shots' going off even before the truck stopped. I was the one that posted the cell phone video in this thread, if you were paying attention. He came out of the truck with his arms raised. In the heli video you don't see him reacting to being shot as anyone would if having been hit they would jerk or hunch over. LaVoy didn't do that. He stayed on his feet, turning around in deep snow and several times reached into his coat.

HE WAS FATALLY SHOT BECAUSE HE KEPT REACHING INTO HIS COAT. nevermind what he may or may not have been reaching for. Cops anywhere, at any time would shot to kill when a person reaches into their coat like LaVoy did. Then add on top of that, the fact he had already said he wasn't going to jail and told officers to shoot him.

No there is no guarantee he was reaching for a gun, but any resistant suspect would be shot if they reached into their coat as he did. As I said before he could have been reaching for his lottery ticket, but the very act of putting your hands where the surrounding cops can't see.......is asking to get shot. PERIOD

 

[JustAnotherNut]

*shoot*.......not shot

 

[WorldWatcher]

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

BULL to both. There were plenty of 'shots' going off even before the truck stopped. I was the one that posted the cell phone video in this thread, if you were paying attention. He came out of the truck with his arms raised. In the heli video you don't see him reacting to being shot as anyone would if having been hit they would jerk or hunch over. LaVoy didn't do that. He stayed on his feet, turning around in deep snow and several times reached into his coat.

If you watch the video, there is only one shot from the time he opened his door and stepped out. That is the shot that entered the Trucks roof, since it struck the truck - it didn't strick Finicum.

That's what I was pointing out to McGarrett who claims Finicrum was shot when he exited the vehicle and that is what he was reaching for. That is incorrect because there was only one shot in that time frame and that is the roof bullet.

HE WAS FATALLY SHOT BECAUSE HE KEPT REACHING INTO HIS COAT. nevermind what he may or may not have been reaching for. Cops anywhere, at any time would shot to kill when a person reaches into their coat like LaVoy did. Then add on top of that, the fact he had already said he wasn't going to jail and told officers to shoot him.

I agree, no need to be defensive.


>>>>

 

[JustAnotherNut]

If you watch the video from the helicopter and the cell phone sync'd - there was only one shot as he exited the truck, that shot is known to be the whole in the top of the truck roof.

Other than that he had his hands up while moving away from the truck and then later dropped his hands to reach in the jacket for the pistol he had there.


>>>>

BULL to both. There were plenty of 'shots' going off even before the truck stopped. I was the one that posted the cell phone video in this thread, if you were paying attention. He came out of the truck with his arms raised. In the heli video you don't see him reacting to being shot as anyone would if having been hit they would jerk or hunch over. LaVoy didn't do that. He stayed on his feet, turning around in deep snow and several times reached into his coat.

If you watch the video, there is only one shot from the time he opened his door and stepped out. That is the shot that entered the Trucks roof, since it struck the truck - it didn't strick Finicum.

That's what I was pointing out to McGarrett who claims Finicrum was shot when he exited the vehicle and that is what he was reaching for. That is incorrect because there was only one shot in that time frame and that is the roof bullet.

HE WAS FATALLY SHOT BECAUSE HE KEPT REACHING INTO HIS COAT. nevermind what he may or may not have been reaching for. Cops anywhere, at any time would shot to kill when a person reaches into their coat like LaVoy did. Then add on top of that, the fact he had already said he wasn't going to jail and told officers to shoot him.

I agree, no need to be defensive.


>>>>

Yes, fine I agree. I had mistakenly thought you had said there had only been one shot 'throughout' the time his truck approached the road block, until he was shot dead

 

[JakeStarkey]

Finecum would not surrender peacefully and finally made a move toward his gun.

Of course he was killed.