Why only a "progressive" income tax?

[jc456]

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

I'll disagree with you on that.

So you want to leave in all the tax crap like tax credits for buying a certain car? Or for buying a certain water heater?

That is not the purpose of taxes

The sole purpose of taxation is to raise the revenue the government needs to perform its functions nothing else

taxes are not to steal from the rich and it isn't to make the middle class poor either. People buy houses and use deductions as a way to afford those houses. You have no idea what your ripple would look like.

 

[jc456]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

 

[Skull Pilot]

The OP has proposed raising taxes dramatically on people making as low as minimum wage, or even lower I guess. He wants to tax every dollar earned, anywhere, any way.

You can either agree with him or debate him. It's his thread.

I haven't proposed a rate at all

I've said I'm not sure what the rate would be but yes those paying no tax would have to pay tax why do you have a problem with that?

So we have people hardly making ends meet. And you want to take more money away from them, increasing the demand for welfare and charity, decreasing consumer spending, creating more poverty. .. all in the name of fairness to the fat cats?

Absurd.

I'm thinking we could be revenue neutral with a flat tax of 10% sorry but no one is going to have a huge lifestyle change if they take home 90 cents on the dollar

10% on a 20,000/year income is a $2000 tax where probably there was none before.

That is a huge 'lifestyle' change.

Currently (2016) a single person making $20,000 a year income would pay $1,592.69 in income tax. That is with no deductions at all, and there's always something to deduct or an earned income tax credit lurking.

So yes, the 10% flat tax would hurt that person.

so that 8 dollars a week difference is going to be the difference if someone starves or not

I think not

 

[jc456]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

you have to define income.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

I'll disagree with you on that.

So you want to leave in all the tax crap like tax credits for buying a certain car? Or for buying a certain water heater?

That is not the purpose of taxes

The sole purpose of taxation is to raise the revenue the government needs to perform its functions nothing else

taxes are not to steal from the rich and it isn't to make the middle class poor either. People buy houses and use deductions as a way to afford those houses. You have no idea what your ripple would look like.

People would still but houses for the same reasons they do now.

They just wouldn't get the tax returns they do now ans no one who buys a house and noe one who lends for a house uses the income deduction on a tax return in their financial calculations

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

Yes I've already said this

Any and all income no matter the source

 

[Timmy]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

you have to define income.

Word.

That's the problem with flat tax proposals . They don't address the complexity of what equals income .

Not everyone is an hourly employee.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

you have to define income.

Word.

That's the problem with flat tax proposals . They don't address the complexity of what equals income .

Not everyone is an hourly employee.

I'm not an hourly employee and yet every year I know how much income I made.

So let's use this

Income is any and all money received for work or through investments

 

[Timmy]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

Yes I've already said this

Any and all income no matter the source

The guy down my street has his own roofing biz. Works out of his home , has a couple work trucks, pays a couple of guys to help . How would you calculate his income ?

And this is a simple example !

 

[Skull Pilot]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

Yes I've already said this

Any and all income no matter the source

The guy down my street has his own roofing biz. Works out of his home , has a couple work trucks, pays a couple of guys to help . How would you calculate his income ?

And this is a simple example !

Just like you would any other business.

 

[Timmy]

What if I work as a manager in an apartment complex . Part of my job is that I live rent free. Do you count that free apartment ? The full rent as income ? How about utilities ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if I work as a manager in an apartment complex . Part of my job is that I live rent free. Do you count that free apartment ? The full rent as income ? How about utilities ?

Free rent would be considered as compensation to be taxed today in our current tax code why would that change?

 

[dblack]

Yes churches are nothing but businesses I'll add charities to that list too

I thought you'd all giggly about getting rid of deductions for charity after all it's how all those rich assholes pay less in taxes

well that will really kill off the poor and needy.

I doubt that

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

What about criminal and civil law to influence behaviour?

No. Those are a proper use of legislative authority, and it's important to understand the difference.

Criminal and civil laws are subject to constitutional limits that tax incentives aren't. Using the tax laws to influence behavior allows Congress to do an end run around the Constitution. They can dictate behavior via the tax code that would would never pass muster if implemented via straightforward laws.

The obvious recent example of the ACAs "individual mandate" makes this very clear. If Congress had passed a national law requiring everyone to buy insurance or face stiff fines, it would have been struck down immediately. But Roberts signed off on the mandate when it was framed as an incentive.

 

[Timmy]

Do you consider peoples disposable income vs full income in your "fairness analysis ". Lower income people spend a lot of their income on bare necessities . Not so much higher income people .

By the way , this thread assumes that rich people are paying a higher % of taxes .

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

Yes I've already said this

Any and all income no matter the source

The guy down my street has his own roofing biz. Works out of his home , has a couple work trucks, pays a couple of guys to help . How would you calculate his income ?

And this is a simple example !

Just like you would any other business.

There's the rub. Self employed people have all kinds of write offs . You may be surprised what ends be being their "taxable income " .

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if I work as a manager in an apartment complex . Part of my job is that I live rent free. Do you count that free apartment ? The full rent as income ? How about utilities ?

Tax implications of living rent-free

 

[Timmy]

What if I work as a manager in an apartment complex . Part of my job is that I live rent free. Do you count that free apartment ? The full rent as income ? How about utilities ?

Free rent would be considered as compensation to be taxed today in our current tax code why would that change?

How about free lunches ? Health insurance ?

People on disability . Is that income ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Income is income just like a gallon of gas of a gallon of gas.

is capital gains income?

Yes I've already said this

Any and all income no matter the source

The guy down my street has his own roofing biz. Works out of his home , has a couple work trucks, pays a couple of guys to help . How would you calculate his income ?

And this is a simple example !

Just like you would any other business.

There's the rub. Self employed people have all kinds of write offs . You may be surprised what ends be being their "taxable income " .

Legally they are restricted to what they can write off

For example they can't write off their entire mortgage for a home office.

But no one with half a brain in their head would be a sole proprietor these days chances are he's an LLC or an s Corp

 

[jc456]

who will give to charities? The rich keep the money coming in on charities, you take away that loophole goodbye to money going there. I'm just sayin, where would the money come from?

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

I'll disagree with you on that.

So you want to leave in all the tax crap like tax credits for buying a certain car? Or for buying a certain water heater?

That is not the purpose of taxes

The sole purpose of taxation is to raise the revenue the government needs to perform its functions nothing else

taxes are not to steal from the rich and it isn't to make the middle class poor either. People buy houses and use deductions as a way to afford those houses. You have no idea what your ripple would look like.

People would still but houses for the same reasons they do now.

They just wouldn't get the tax returns they do now ans no one who buys a house and noe one who lends for a house uses the income deduction on a tax return in their financial calculations

well I get 18k deduction on my two homes, and I can tell you what if I had to pay more taxes, I couldn't afford two. you're nuts.

you do understand monthly interest and property taxes are also paid on homes, as is insurance per month. I do that times two, along with flood insurance for one home. you're a nut case if you think folks will buy into that. Especially when I haven't had a pay increase in over 12 years.

 

[Skull Pilot]

What if I work as a manager in an apartment complex . Part of my job is that I live rent free. Do you count that free apartment ? The full rent as income ? How about utilities ?

Free rent would be considered as compensation to be taxed today in our current tax code why would that change?

How about free lunches ? Health insurance ?

People on disability . Is that income ?

If any of those things are part of a compensation package for work provided then yes

Disability is not money derived from work or investments is it?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Tax policies to influence behavior should be done away with

I'll disagree with you on that.

So you want to leave in all the tax crap like tax credits for buying a certain car? Or for buying a certain water heater?

That is not the purpose of taxes

The sole purpose of taxation is to raise the revenue the government needs to perform its functions nothing else

taxes are not to steal from the rich and it isn't to make the middle class poor either. People buy houses and use deductions as a way to afford those houses. You have no idea what your ripple would look like.

People would still but houses for the same reasons they do now.

They just wouldn't get the tax returns they do now ans no one who buys a house and noe one who lends for a house uses the income deduction on a tax return in their financial calculations

well I get 18k deduction on my two homes, and I can tell you what if I had to pay more taxes, I couldn't afford two. you're nuts.

you do understand monthly interest and property taxes are also paid on homes, as is insurance per month. I do that times two, along with flood insurance for one home. you're a nut case if you think folks will buy into that. Especially when I haven't had a pay increase in over 12 years.

So?

It's not the government's job to make it easier for you to own a house