Unkotare
Diamond Member
- Aug 16, 2011
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... I never did a course in economics------.......
And you're not an economist. Neither was marx.
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... I never did a course in economics------.......
She might just be saying he took a course on economics included with his philosophy and political science classes, which is possible.
Still doesn't make him an actual economist.
But he didn't even go into detail when it came to economics, all he did basically was criticize capitalism and call for socialism. He hardly touched on how socialism would actually work as an economic system.She might just be saying he took a course on economics included with his philosophy and political science classes, which is possible.
Still doesn't make him an actual economist.
I dont think that Marx regarded himself as an economist - not sure the concept of such a profession even existed at that time. If I recall Correctly he considered himself a historian and philosopher, you know a useless humanities major, lol.
But as he wrote one of the biggest economic impacting set of book in the history of the world, maybe we could give him a pass and say that he was effectively an economist?
It is definitely time to find alternatives to the present system.
He laid the foundation to all Capitalism critiques for the next 150 years and you think that is not an economist for the mid 1800's?But he didn't even go into detail when it came to economics, all he did basically was criticize capitalism and call for socialism. He hardly touched on how socialism would actually work as an economic system.
I have to disagree with him being an economist.
Critiquing an economy does not an economist make. Hitler would fit that description of an economist if Marx is considered an economist for critiquing capitalism. Any guy on the street who holds a sign saying "Down with capitalism!" would qualify as an economist.He laid the foundation to all Capitalism critiques for the next 150 years and you think that is not an economist for the mid 1800's?But he didn't even go into detail when it came to economics, all he did basically was criticize capitalism and call for socialism. He hardly touched on how socialism would actually work as an economic system.
I have to disagree with him being an economist.
Lol, if you think Das Kapial is comparable to Hitlers ramblings in Mein Kamph or to a dude holding up a sign, well, you need to read up on the topic more.Critiquing an economy does not an economist make. Hitler would fit that description of an economist if Marx is considered an economist for critiquing capitalism. Any guy on the street who holds a sign saying "Down with capitalism!" would qualify as an economist.He laid the foundation to all Capitalism critiques for the next 150 years and you think that is not an economist for the mid 1800's?But he didn't even go into detail when it came to economics, all he did basically was criticize capitalism and call for socialism. He hardly touched on how socialism would actually work as an economic system.
I have to disagree with him being an economist.
Oh I've read plenty on it, and I have read Das Kapital. In fact I own two copies of it. Days Kapital is little more than an emotional appeal in my view.Lol, if you think Das Kapial is comparable to Hitlers ramblings in Mein Kamph or to a dude holding up a sign, well, you need to read up on the topic more.Critiquing an economy does not an economist make. Hitler would fit that description of an economist if Marx is considered an economist for critiquing capitalism. Any guy on the street who holds a sign saying "Down with capitalism!" would qualify as an economist.He laid the foundation to all Capitalism critiques for the next 150 years and you think that is not an economist for the mid 1800's?But he didn't even go into detail when it came to economics, all he did basically was criticize capitalism and call for socialism. He hardly touched on how socialism would actually work as an economic system.
I have to disagree with him being an economist.
I have read Das Kapital. In fact I own two copies of it.
I always try to buy two copies of every book, one is for making notations and the other remains in it's original state.I have read Das Kapital. In fact I own two copies of it.
One wasn't enough? LOL (just messing with you)
I always try to buy two copies of every book, one is for making notations and the other remains in it's original state.I have read Das Kapital. In fact I own two copies of it.
One wasn't enough? LOL (just messing with you)
I like this idea as it will smooth out the transition from a wage based economy to a new technologically based barter economy that will arrive within 30 years if not much sooner.
Now before you start yelling 'But the lazy dindus wont work!' well, the way technology is advancing in such a way that very few people will work no matter how hard they try to find a job; there simply wont be enough jobs to employ more than about 15% of the population, if passed slave economies are any valid comparison economically. Just as there were some jobs one could not train a slave to do well, or a slave was too expensive to have them do those jobs, so too there will be jobs that an android wont do because of the same reasons. Of course the economy has changed quite a bit since 1860, but I think morphologically the analogy is valid.
Besides, what else do we have to guess with?
But this concept of a Universal Basic Income is the kind of thing we will need to salve the insecure who have alwayus thought of employment = financial security. In the coming technological Utopia we will have far deeper challenges, like finding a purpose to our lives when employment is not a realistic option..
Zoltan Istvan: 'Half of Americans Will Probably Have a Robot in Their House' Within 5 Years - Breitbart
We’ve followed two seemingly disparate lines of thought, so let’s take them to their logical conclusion: Let’s say that we do that. Let’s say that we accomplish sort of “science-industrial complex,” that we can win this battle against mortality itself. At the same time, we’re developing these technologies with increasing automation, and we’re making human workers literally redundant. What happens when those two concepts meet? It seems to me that we would have a more and more long-lived population, with fewer and fewer occupations available for them. How can those conclusions co-exist without becoming hopelessly entangled?
Oh yeah, no. Indeed it will be tangled. But, you know, this is where I think that in my own campaign and the Transhumanist party, we support, very deeply, a Universal Basic Income. Now when you hear the words “Universal Basic Income,” it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s some kind of socialist perspective. There’s also ways to create a universal basic income through Libertarian means and our Libertarian ideas and stuff like that.
One of our ideas is that with a Universal Basic Income, with the automation coming that’s going to replace so many workers, is going to be a huge amount of prosperity for the companies who are replacing the human workers with machines. That prosperity can go towards creating Universal Basic Income, so that we don’t create a society even moreso of the “haves” and the “have-nots.”
And, I think more prosperity is going to mean more money in the system. Let’s spend more taking care of those Americans who have lost their jobs. In fact, it’s not just those Americans who have lost their jobs. I’m not just interested in only those Americans who have lost their jobs. I’m actually interested in every single American.
The reason I’ve always liked the Universal Basic Income is because it allows for every single person to get a certain amount of money — enough to feed and clothe themselves, and house themselves — and on top of that, they can create whatever kind of world they want. They can build empires. But nobody is left out of that system.
And a Universal Basic Income can do a lot of other things too. It would wipe — it would essentially replace — welfare. ....
This or something very much like it is coming, and we need to evaluate our options and take responsible action to alleviate the most disruptive technology driven change that mankind has ever seen occur in one generation.
I like this idea as it will smooth out the transition from a wage based economy to a new technologically based barter economy that will arrive within 30 years if not much sooner.
Now before you start yelling 'But the lazy dindus wont work!' well, the way technology is advancing in such a way that very few people will work no matter how hard they try to find a job; there simply wont be enough jobs to employ more than about 15% of the population, if passed slave economies are any valid comparison economically. Just as there were some jobs one could not train a slave to do well, or a slave was too expensive to have them do those jobs, so too there will be jobs that an android wont do because of the same reasons. Of course the economy has changed quite a bit since 1860, but I think morphologically the analogy is valid.
Besides, what else do we have to guess with?
But this concept of a Universal Basic Income is the kind of thing we will need to salve the insecure who have alwayus thought of employment = financial security. In the coming technological Utopia we will have far deeper challenges, like finding a purpose to our lives when employment is not a realistic option..
Zoltan Istvan: 'Half of Americans Will Probably Have a Robot in Their House' Within 5 Years - Breitbart
We’ve followed two seemingly disparate lines of thought, so let’s take them to their logical conclusion: Let’s say that we do that. Let’s say that we accomplish sort of “science-industrial complex,” that we can win this battle against mortality itself. At the same time, we’re developing these technologies with increasing automation, and we’re making human workers literally redundant. What happens when those two concepts meet? It seems to me that we would have a more and more long-lived population, with fewer and fewer occupations available for them. How can those conclusions co-exist without becoming hopelessly entangled?
Oh yeah, no. Indeed it will be tangled. But, you know, this is where I think that in my own campaign and the Transhumanist party, we support, very deeply, a Universal Basic Income. Now when you hear the words “Universal Basic Income,” it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s some kind of socialist perspective. There’s also ways to create a universal basic income through Libertarian means and our Libertarian ideas and stuff like that.
One of our ideas is that with a Universal Basic Income, with the automation coming that’s going to replace so many workers, is going to be a huge amount of prosperity for the companies who are replacing the human workers with machines. That prosperity can go towards creating Universal Basic Income, so that we don’t create a society even moreso of the “haves” and the “have-nots.”
And, I think more prosperity is going to mean more money in the system. Let’s spend more taking care of those Americans who have lost their jobs. In fact, it’s not just those Americans who have lost their jobs. I’m not just interested in only those Americans who have lost their jobs. I’m actually interested in every single American.
The reason I’ve always liked the Universal Basic Income is because it allows for every single person to get a certain amount of money — enough to feed and clothe themselves, and house themselves — and on top of that, they can create whatever kind of world they want. They can build empires. But nobody is left out of that system.
And a Universal Basic Income can do a lot of other things too. It would wipe — it would essentially replace — welfare. ....
This or something very much like it is coming, and we need to evaluate our options and take responsible action to alleviate the most disruptive technology driven change that mankind has ever seen occur in one generation.
Howdy. I told you I'd share my thoughts on the matter of UBI. I am sorry that my efforts to read the materials in my self-composed reading list on the matter have been delayed, having only begun a couple hours before I began this post, but I have begun and below are my initial thoughts inspired from what I have read so far.
Please note, that my comments are nothing other than the notes I've made during and after reading the noted sources. I haven't arrived at any conclusion of which I'm certain, only at thoughts about what I've read as viewed through the lens of what I do already know or believe. As one would expect of any objective approach to discovery and analysis, my notes will one way or another be used to inform my final thoughts on the matter, but the interim conclusions in my notes may or may not be those presented or even articulated by me as my final conclusion(s).
I'm sharing my reading notes mainly and literally to drag you along my process of discovery re: UBI, seeing as you've "forced" me into it and I let that happen. <winks> More importantly, I'm sharing my notes to see if you have thoughts you may care to share as a consequence of your having read (already known) the content found in the documents I'm reading.
P.S.
The nature of my notes varies with the nature of the document I read, but in all cases I note what I want to recall later.
- A Brief History of Basic Income Ideas
- Foundational overview of the nascence and development of the concept.
- Document purpose: provide insight to the nature of UBI and the nature of various approaches to enabling/providing UBI to people.
- Document use: identify high level changes over time in the UBI provision implementations and so as to gain/glean ideas on how those changes affect achieving the goal of ensuring UBI for "everyone"
- UBI is not a new concept; it's been around and prominent in Western sociopolitical thought and policy since the Renaissance.
- The document subtly calls attention to key differences in how the idea of UBI has changed over the past 600 years.
- Seems unlikely that society as a whole objects to the core principle of "everyone" having, at the very least, whatever sum equates, at the time, to the UBI.
- Means testing is a relatively new aspect incorporated into UBI aimed policies.
- Question: Why were means tests adopted? Was it to lower (keep as low as possible) the cost of UBI programs? Was it for some other reason? [look for possible plausible answer(s) to this in subsequent readings; may need to look beyond them to find the answer(s)]
- My observations on how, over time, the UBI concept's mode of implementation changed fundamentally and how those changes affected the outcome of enabling/ensuring "everyone" has at least that minimal level of economic and financial resources has changed over time:
- Key difference between pre and post 20th century ideas:
- Before the end of the Homestead Act, people were given the key tool needed to be financially successful (i.e., earn a decent sum of money) in the economy in which they lived, that is the prevailing economy, which then was primarily agrarian, the idea being that given that tool, one can and will use it effectively and efficiently enough to at least sustain oneself (one's family) in reasonable comfort.
Under the pre-20th century implementation of the UBI concept, leaders recognized that land, labor and capital are the "levers" of an economy; thus they aimed to ensure "everyone" had possession of the one lever that with the least amount of effort could in turn provide access to the other two. Prior to about the mid-20th century, the lever that could do that was land, for at the very least, one could farm it and thereby feed, house and clothe oneself, and done well, one could even sell some of one's produced goods to earn income.
For example, upon receiving 50 acres of land, one might sell one or two acres of it to a non-agrarian capitalist (industrialist or service provider) and use the proceeds to:
- Buy one sheep, one pig, a dozen chickens, and two horses, all of which one will allow to feed off of some share of the remaining land.
- Allow each pair of animals to breed (with one's neighbor's similar creature where one has only one such beast) at least once, some more than once.
- Buy a hoe or a plow, some seeds, an axe or saw, and a basic firearm (explosive or nonexplosive) to fend of animal predators or to hunt them for food.
- Harvest vines to tether the livestock until one can....
- Harvest the trees/saplings from the land to build a small home and some fences to corral ones livestock.
- Plant seeds to grow vegetables.
- Etc., etc., etc....
One may or may not have "made it," and "making it" wasn't easy, but one was at least given the key tool needed to "make it" and become a capitalist who can then, say, buy that "acre or two" from a later homesteader who is just starting out, and in so doing, expand one's own foothold as a capitalist, which, upon being given land, one instantly became.
Succinctly, our forebears understood that under capitalism, the way to help everyone succeed is to make everyone a capitalist and/or indispensable to (other) capitalists, thus the land grant rather than a gift of money. Did it work? I'd say it did. It produced the America that saw its industrial revolution not long after Jefferson's time, and that produced the gilded age by the late 19th century, the America that was the breadbasket of the world and the industrial powerhouse of the world certainly by the mid 20th century, if not before then.
- After the end of the Homestead act, what's given isn't the thing needed to achieve one's own financial success through one's own efforts. "The system" instead begins to give that which defines the measure of financial success -- money itself and the necessities it buys -- but leaves recipients devoid of any means to achieve financial sufficiency absent the actual handout.
In other words, the modern paradigm for UBI assuages our emotional need to feel good about helping folks and not letting them starve, go homeless and naked -- as well we should not allow those things to happen to our fellow men -- but it also ensures that those whom we help don't get so much help that they can likely join the ranks of capitalists and compete with existing capitalists.
The thing is that in the present, it's not land that enables full participation in the capitalist, nee American, dream. These days, it's knowledge and information that does that. Why? Because this is the Information Age. Duh. Could it be any more plainly identified? The information that generates profits these days is the sort that can only be gained from education, education beyond what is offered in K-12 schools.
So, even though we begrudgingly give folks food, housing and money, we ensure they get the one thing they must have to eventually not need the food, housing and money gifts. People regard schools as "all that's needed" in the quest to educate their kids, and, we as a society, allow our school system to function as a "babysitter" rather than an educator when and where parents abdicate or cannot in the first place provide the needed supplements to the information teachers attempt to impart to their kids.
I can't say why some parents behave that way, but I know some do, and I know that to the extent that those who do are currently among the "left out" segment of society, neither their nor their kids situation will improve as long as they continue to do so.- Basic Income in a Globalized Economy
Selected statements from the document and thoughts about them:
- "If nations are no longer able to perform their redistributive function because of their immersion in a global market, let us globalize redistribution."
- Questions:
- What structural economic reasons constrain or prohibit nations from performing this function?
- Answer: The two noted on the prior pages: economic and political exigencies (some potentially avoidable and some plausibly unavoidable) resulting from transnational migration: the "race to the bottom" (term defined by them) and social/political heterogeneity. (re-read this section later to see if it still jibes)
- Do they think national borders and the consequences of them be the drivers to the challenge noted in this section's heading?
- Do they think that globalization itself or nationhood in an evolving global economy be the, that is, is the challenge transient or self solving?
- "Globalized redistribution can of course hardly be expected to take the form of a complex, subtly structured welfare state that stipulates precisely what qualifies as a relevant need and the conditions under which, the way in which and the extent to which social solidarity will cover it. If it is ever to come into being, it will need to take the crude form of very simple benefits funded in a very simple way."
- Question: So is a world of multiple and competing nation states doomed to inability to provide severally for the people who occupy the planet?
- "Faced with this twofold challenge posed by trans-national migration, is there no better option than to mourn the epoch of tight borders, or perhaps to dream of a world freed of massive international inequalities and of the irresistible migration pressures they feed? Far from it. True, we must honestly recognize that generous solidarity is easier to imagine and implement in a closed homogeneous society cosily protected by robust borders against both opportunistic migration and ethnic heterogeneity. But having done that, we must actively explore and advocate three possible responses to the challenge we face."
- Question: Might "tight national borders" mean not only "well controlled" but also "clearly defined"? Given the context, that seems plausible. Have to keep reading to find out....
- Question: Why is the demise of tight borders necessarily a thing to mourn? Seems to me if the aim is the sufficiency and contentment of humanity, borders shouldn't matter. It's not as though what a human would or does need to be content varies by nation of residence. If the aim of sufficiency is inextricably tied to the nation state itself rather than its residents, well, then, yes, the demise of tight borders is something to mourn.
[Keep an eye open for later in the paper indications of why they have the inherent assumption, given the subject matter and their paper's opening, the existence of tight national borders is something to retain or not retain in the context of achieving the objective of providing UBI for substantively everyone.]- The Many Faces of Basic Income
- The Relative Cost of a Universal Basic Income and a Negative Income Tax
- Two redistributive proposals—universal basic income and stakeholder grants
- Redesigning Distribution: basic income and stakeholder grants as alternative cornerstones for a more egalitarian capitalism
- Arguing for Basic Income: Ethical Foundations for a Radical Reform
- HOW BIG IS BIG ENOUGH: WOULD THE BASIC INCOME GUARANTEE SATISFY THE UNEMPLOYED? (editorial)
- Democratizing Citizenship: Some Advantages of a Basic Income
- Basic Income: A simple and powerful idea for the twenty-first century
- The Pros and Cons of a Guaranteed National Income
There is absolutely no basis in which it is even remotely considerable that technological advancements equate to a lack of productivity or purpose in its citizen base. In fact, there IS precedent in technological advancements allowing for better productivity and MORE purpose in people's lives (everything from the Roman Empire to the Enlightenment indicate this). I mean seriously...the more automated we become the more monotonous tasks we eliminate. How many people grew up and dreamed of pushing a button on an assembly line or filing paperwork? Pretty much nobody. On the other hand, how many people wanted to explore space, be an artist, or help their community? I mean technology has allowed people to stop plowing fields by hand...did that mean that people stopped being productive when they got out of the fields? No. People will find ways to be productive and, in doing so, will find their purpose. As people tend to pay for useful services, people will pay them for their productivity. This is how our world works.I like this idea as it will smooth out the transition from a wage based economy to a new technologically based barter economy that will arrive within 30 years if not much sooner.
Now before you start yelling 'But the lazy dindus wont work!' well, the way technology is advancing in such a way that very few people will work no matter how hard they try to find a job; there simply wont be enough jobs to employ more than about 15% of the population, if passed slave economies are any valid comparison economically. Just as there were some jobs one could not train a slave to do well, or a slave was too expensive to have them do those jobs, so too there will be jobs that an android wont do because of the same reasons. Of course the economy has changed quite a bit since 1860, but I think morphologically the analogy is valid.
Besides, what else do we have to guess with?
But this concept of a Universal Basic Income is the kind of thing we will need to salve the insecure who have alwayus thought of employment = financial security. In the coming technological Utopia we will have far deeper challenges, like finding a purpose to our lives when employment is not a realistic option..
You are presenting an image of placid utopia, and I agree that technological utopia is coming, but it has its dark side; drastically reduced incomes, a perception of purposelessness due to lack of viable careers, and the loss of government revenues from taxation.There is absolutely no basis in which it is even remotely considerable that technological advancements equate to a lack of productivity or purpose in its citizen base. In fact, there IS precedent in technological advancements allowing for better productivity and MORE purpose in people's lives (everything from the Roman Empire to the Enlightenment indicate this). I mean seriously...the more automated we become the more monotonous tasks we eliminate. How many people grew up and dreamed of pushing a button on an assembly line or filing paperwork? Pretty much nobody. On the other hand, how many people wanted to explore space, be an artist, or help their community? I mean technology has allowed people to stop plowing fields by hand...did that mean that people stopped being productive when they got out of the fields? No. People will find ways to be productive and, in doing so, will find their purpose. As people tend to pay for useful services, people will pay them for their productivity. This is how our world works.
I'm simply going to point towards history when we have experienced previous periods of large technological advances...when, ever, did the population cease to be productive? The only thing that technological advances mark is GREATER productivity, GREATER purpose.You are presenting an image of placid utopia, and I agree that technological utopia is coming, but it has its dark side; drastically reduced incomes, a perception of purposelessness due to lack of viable careers, and the loss of government revenues from taxation.There is absolutely no basis in which it is even remotely considerable that technological advancements equate to a lack of productivity or purpose in its citizen base. In fact, there IS precedent in technological advancements allowing for better productivity and MORE purpose in people's lives (everything from the Roman Empire to the Enlightenment indicate this). I mean seriously...the more automated we become the more monotonous tasks we eliminate. How many people grew up and dreamed of pushing a button on an assembly line or filing paperwork? Pretty much nobody. On the other hand, how many people wanted to explore space, be an artist, or help their community? I mean technology has allowed people to stop plowing fields by hand...did that mean that people stopped being productive when they got out of the fields? No. People will find ways to be productive and, in doing so, will find their purpose. As people tend to pay for useful services, people will pay them for their productivity. This is how our world works.
If we all ahd part time jobs that paid all out bills and made us feel peachy keen, that would still leave the government with smaller tax base and resulting revenue streams and the consumer market would be less than half of what it was before. Unlike most of the technological innovations over the last 500 years, the new Digital Age tech is not producing the jobs like the old tech did,in fact it is a net job negative impact as even older menial jobs become robotized.
Lets say you can grow your own food and make your own cloths and shoes; how do you pay your mortgage? How do you pay the various property taxes?
I'm simply going to point towards history when we have experienced previous periods of large technological advances...when, ever, did the population cease to be productive? The only thing that technological advances mark is GREATER productivity, GREATER purpose.You are presenting an image of placid utopia, and I agree that technological utopia is coming, but it has its dark side; drastically reduced incomes, a perception of purposelessness due to lack of viable careers, and the loss of government revenues from taxation.There is absolutely no basis in which it is even remotely considerable that technological advancements equate to a lack of productivity or purpose in its citizen base. In fact, there IS precedent in technological advancements allowing for better productivity and MORE purpose in people's lives (everything from the Roman Empire to the Enlightenment indicate this). I mean seriously...the more automated we become the more monotonous tasks we eliminate. How many people grew up and dreamed of pushing a button on an assembly line or filing paperwork? Pretty much nobody. On the other hand, how many people wanted to explore space, be an artist, or help their community? I mean technology has allowed people to stop plowing fields by hand...did that mean that people stopped being productive when they got out of the fields? No. People will find ways to be productive and, in doing so, will find their purpose. As people tend to pay for useful services, people will pay them for their productivity. This is how our world works.
If we all ahd part time jobs that paid all out bills and made us feel peachy keen, that would still leave the government with smaller tax base and resulting revenue streams and the consumer market would be less than half of what it was before. Unlike most of the technological innovations over the last 500 years, the new Digital Age tech is not producing the jobs like the old tech did,in fact it is a net job negative impact as even older menial jobs become robotized.
Lets say you can grow your own food and make your own cloths and shoes; how do you pay your mortgage? How do you pay the various property taxes?
Let us take our latest technological innovation...the computer. Now, for sure, this has eliminated some jobs. However...has this led to more or less opportunities for people? The answer is clearly MORE. Even when it has eliminated a lot of administrative jobs or lessened the need for in-house people to analyze / research your company (now you have programs that do that), computers have led to a far larger range of tech jobs and have introduced SEVERAL whole new job markets. The same was true when we moved out of agriculture (due to technological advances) and INTO the industrial revolution. At no time in human history has technological advances done anything other than INCREASE the population's productivity and INCREASE the opportunities for people to find their purpose.
I don't know what sort of obscure, fictional material you are getting your world view from, but history clearly shows that the picture you paint is a picture of fantasy.
Edit: I noticed you are under the impression that our digital age is taking jobs rather than generating them. I'm pretty sure (although I don't have the stats) that this is false. The reason...you point towards robotics doing the work of human as evidence that we are running out of jobs. How so? When we created machines to better perform our farming we saw people move into a new job market(since they didn't have to till the field all day)...industry! The same is true here. Many manufacturing jobs are either being automated or outsourced. The outsourced jobs are obviously not eliminated and the automated jobs simply allow people to do the slew of other things that computers and robotics have opened up for humanity. Everything from data theory, application development, digital design, online marketing, programming, esports, digital marketing, social media networking, IT, information security, I could go on and on and on. There are tons of things that has been opened up with the advent of our technology...and the same will be true of future tech. The only ones that will suffer from technological advances are those too stubborn to adapt to it.
I'm just going to highlight this because it highlights your misunderstanding of tech. Let me be clear. This statement I've isolated is 100% false. It takes A TON of effort to create working programs / robotics etc (I honestly don't know much about robotics but can speak semi-freely about the programming side of the house), it tends to take even more effort to maintain it, and as far as installing it...well that can be about as fun as trying to chop a tree down with a butter knife. You just don't understand modern technology which is why you have such a gross misunderstanding of it.The new tech today is virtually independent of human effort to make it, maintain it and install it.
Selected statements from the document and thoughts about them:
- "If nations are no longer able to perform their redistributive function because of their immersion in a global market, let us globalize redistribution."
- Questions:
- What structural economic reasons constrain or prohibit nations from performing this function?
- Answer: The two noted on the prior pages: economic and political exigencies (some potentially avoidable and some plausibly unavoidable) resulting from transnational migration: the "race to the bottom" (term defined by them) and social/political heterogeneity. (re-read this section later to see if it still jibes)
- Do they think national borders and the consequences of them be the drivers to the challenge noted in this section's heading?
- Do they think that globalization itself or nationhood in an evolving global economy be the, that is, is the challenge transient or self solving?
- "Globalized redistribution can of course hardly be expected to take the form of a complex, subtly structured welfare state that stipulates precisely what qualifies as a relevant need and the conditions under which, the way in which and the extent to which social solidarity will cover it. If it is ever to come into being, it will need to take the crude form of very simple benefits funded in a very simple way."
- Question: So is a world of multiple and competing nation states doomed to inability to provide severally for the people who occupy the planet?
- "Faced with this twofold challenge posed by trans-national migration, is there no better option than to mourn the epoch of tight borders, or perhaps to dream of a world freed of massive international inequalities and of the irresistible migration pressures they feed? Far from it. True, we must honestly recognize that generous solidarity is easier to imagine and implement in a closed homogeneous society cosily protected by robust borders against both opportunistic migration and ethnic heterogeneity. But having done that, we must actively explore and advocate three possible responses to the challenge we face."
- Question: Might "tight national borders" mean not only "well controlled" but also "clearly defined"? Given the context, that seems plausible. Have to keep reading to find out....
- Question: Why is the demise of tight borders necessarily a thing to mourn? Seems to me if the aim is the sufficiency and contentment of humanity, borders shouldn't matter. It's not as though what a human would or does need to be content varies by nation of residence. If the aim of sufficiency is inextricably tied to the nation state itself rather than its residents, well, then, yes, the demise of tight borders is something to mourn.
[Keep an eye open for later in the paper indications of why they have the inherent assumption, given the subject matter and their paper's opening, the existence of tight national borders is something to retain or not retain in the context of achieving the objective of providing UBI for substantively everyone.]