Why not change the immigration laws if you don't like them?

[Deleted member 53821]

The politicians won't change them because they lose votes either way. It's more politically expedient for pols of all stripes to take this non-committal path and play in the margins so they can all continue to pander to their respective constituents.

It's a sell out, as usual.

That is why you have to stop giving your vote away for free. I don't vote anymore unless I really like the candidate. It is the only thing that keeps from pretending to pander to me but only do something different once they are in office. I'm OK with letting the other side win.

 

[Deleted member 53821]

Means more then that.

I don't support a wall. I think it's a stupid waste of money and will cause more problems then it would solve. I support immigration reform at both ends:

• increased border security and use of modern technology to do that - drones for example
  
• more rapid deportation of those convicted of violent crimes
• a path to citizenship for those who came over as children, and have been good citizens
• some form of amnesty for those who have been good citizens - served in the military, etc
• increasing the number of work visas we give out to encourage legal, temporary immigration for those who do jobs that, truly - Americans won't do
• instead of putting all that money into the frigging wall - put it into modernizing the technology and efficiency of the agencies involved in immigration to speed up the legal bottleneck and also to keep track of people coming in on visas and temporary work permits.

That's comprehensive.

ICE agents.
Amnesty incites more illegals. That would be considered a failure by just about any definition.
Im not into the wall either, really. But if its all i can get...
If we took away all their incentives by fining employers, require everify for renting and buying, no more schooling (that's was a terrible judgement and it would be EASY to come up with reasons why it should be looked at again) things like that, we wouldn't need a wall or technology because they wouldn't come at all. They will leave/stay where they are from if all they are doing is starving, sleeping in the streets and their children are dumb.
Im not into work VISAs right now. I put Americans first. We have around 10M able bodied people not in the workforce. And a kinda high unemployment. Especially in some areas. But maybe one day.

I disagree with education - the kids had no say in what their parents did, and frankly - a large uneducated populace is bad for us overall.

Its not our populace. They are illegal aliens.
Again, the reason they come is incentive. If you want the border fixed, why continue with the main cause? Its completely contradictory. That's why i laugh at all these people that want to "fix it". Bullshit.

I don't agree. The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.

There is also the issue of WHO we are as Americans at play. Are we the kind of people who are going to punish kids for what their parents did? We are a nation of immigrants and that also plays into it. How do we fix the problems but not become barbaric in the process? I see your argument that they wouldn't come over illegally if there aren't incentives but what are the incentives? Kind of depends on what immigrant you are.

There are jobs that pay better than in Mexico. Even if they are piss poor by American terms. Because of that people are willing to take horrendous gambles with their lives (and die) to come here. And they are willing to live in crap conditions if they have to. Others are escaping violence and lawlessness in their countries. What ever they get here is still likely to be better than what they face at home. Seems like some kind of work visa would be good - it would stem some of the illegal immigration, those people who are looking more for jobs then for citizenship and give us better control over who is in our country.

So you think people that are escaping poverty and crime will go through a work visa process? lol
Jobs are incentive. That's why we need mandatory everify and HARSH punishments for employers.
Its punishing to a lot more people to let them stay. Like American citizens. Do they not count?
The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.
We either have laws, or we don't. It should be up to no person to decide what laws we should and shouldn't abide by.

I actually think that making it as difficult as possible for them to enter by providing as many obstacles as possible to get such as a wall might make them realize that it is easier to enter this country legally than go through all the shit that they have to go through when they decide to do so legally. A wall may not stop all of them but by providing enough barriers that it makes them realize the easiest route to go in this country is by getting in line like every other immigrant to this country.

 

[TNHarley]

ICE agents.
Amnesty incites more illegals. That would be considered a failure by just about any definition.
Im not into the wall either, really. But if its all i can get...
If we took away all their incentives by fining employers, require everify for renting and buying, no more schooling (that's was a terrible judgement and it would be EASY to come up with reasons why it should be looked at again) things like that, we wouldn't need a wall or technology because they wouldn't come at all. They will leave/stay where they are from if all they are doing is starving, sleeping in the streets and their children are dumb.
Im not into work VISAs right now. I put Americans first. We have around 10M able bodied people not in the workforce. And a kinda high unemployment. Especially in some areas. But maybe one day.

I disagree with education - the kids had no say in what their parents did, and frankly - a large uneducated populace is bad for us overall.

Its not our populace. They are illegal aliens.
Again, the reason they come is incentive. If you want the border fixed, why continue with the main cause? Its completely contradictory. That's why i laugh at all these people that want to "fix it". Bullshit.

I don't agree. The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.

There is also the issue of WHO we are as Americans at play. Are we the kind of people who are going to punish kids for what their parents did? We are a nation of immigrants and that also plays into it. How do we fix the problems but not become barbaric in the process? I see your argument that they wouldn't come over illegally if there aren't incentives but what are the incentives? Kind of depends on what immigrant you are.

There are jobs that pay better than in Mexico. Even if they are piss poor by American terms. Because of that people are willing to take horrendous gambles with their lives (and die) to come here. And they are willing to live in crap conditions if they have to. Others are escaping violence and lawlessness in their countries. What ever they get here is still likely to be better than what they face at home. Seems like some kind of work visa would be good - it would stem some of the illegal immigration, those people who are looking more for jobs then for citizenship and give us better control over who is in our country.

So you think people that are escaping poverty and crime will go through a work visa process? lol
Jobs are incentive. That's why we need mandatory everify and HARSH punishments for employers.
Its punishing to a lot more people to let them stay. Like American citizens. Do they not count?
The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.
We either have laws, or we don't. It should be up to no person to decide what laws we should and shouldn't abide by.

I actually think that making it as difficult as possible for them to enter by providing as many obstacles as possible to get such as a wall might make them realize that it is easier to enter this country legally than go through all the shit that they have to go through when they decide to do so legally. A wall may not stop all of them but by providing enough barriers that it makes them realize the easiest route to go in this country is by getting in line like every other immigrant to this country.

If we just take away their reason for coming, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I always say that going after the cause is better than battling an effect.

 

[Deleted member 53821]

I disagree with education - the kids had no say in what their parents did, and frankly - a large uneducated populace is bad for us overall.

Its not our populace. They are illegal aliens.
Again, the reason they come is incentive. If you want the border fixed, why continue with the main cause? Its completely contradictory. That's why i laugh at all these people that want to "fix it". Bullshit.

I don't agree. The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.

There is also the issue of WHO we are as Americans at play. Are we the kind of people who are going to punish kids for what their parents did? We are a nation of immigrants and that also plays into it. How do we fix the problems but not become barbaric in the process? I see your argument that they wouldn't come over illegally if there aren't incentives but what are the incentives? Kind of depends on what immigrant you are.

There are jobs that pay better than in Mexico. Even if they are piss poor by American terms. Because of that people are willing to take horrendous gambles with their lives (and die) to come here. And they are willing to live in crap conditions if they have to. Others are escaping violence and lawlessness in their countries. What ever they get here is still likely to be better than what they face at home. Seems like some kind of work visa would be good - it would stem some of the illegal immigration, those people who are looking more for jobs then for citizenship and give us better control over who is in our country.

So you think people that are escaping poverty and crime will go through a work visa process? lol
Jobs are incentive. That's why we need mandatory everify and HARSH punishments for employers.
Its punishing to a lot more people to let them stay. Like American citizens. Do they not count?
The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.
We either have laws, or we don't. It should be up to no person to decide what laws we should and shouldn't abide by.

I actually think that making it as difficult as possible for them to enter by providing as many obstacles as possible to get such as a wall might make them realize that it is easier to enter this country legally than go through all the shit that they have to go through when they decide to do so legally. A wall may not stop all of them but by providing enough barriers that it makes them realize the easiest route to go in this country is by getting in line like every other immigrant to this country.

If we just take away their reason for coming, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I always say that going after the cause is better than battling an effect.

That doesn't get enforced either because if you ever worked where there were a lot of hispanics you know that, by some of their conversations, that they are not from this country. I'm not saying that every hispanic person is an illegal but I have worked along side hispanics who were and, despite the background checks, they still are able to get a job.

 

[TNHarley]

Its not our populace. They are illegal aliens.
Again, the reason they come is incentive. If you want the border fixed, why continue with the main cause? Its completely contradictory. That's why i laugh at all these people that want to "fix it". Bullshit.

I don't agree. The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.

There is also the issue of WHO we are as Americans at play. Are we the kind of people who are going to punish kids for what their parents did? We are a nation of immigrants and that also plays into it. How do we fix the problems but not become barbaric in the process? I see your argument that they wouldn't come over illegally if there aren't incentives but what are the incentives? Kind of depends on what immigrant you are.

There are jobs that pay better than in Mexico. Even if they are piss poor by American terms. Because of that people are willing to take horrendous gambles with their lives (and die) to come here. And they are willing to live in crap conditions if they have to. Others are escaping violence and lawlessness in their countries. What ever they get here is still likely to be better than what they face at home. Seems like some kind of work visa would be good - it would stem some of the illegal immigration, those people who are looking more for jobs then for citizenship and give us better control over who is in our country.

So you think people that are escaping poverty and crime will go through a work visa process? lol
Jobs are incentive. That's why we need mandatory everify and HARSH punishments for employers.
Its punishing to a lot more people to let them stay. Like American citizens. Do they not count?
The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.
We either have laws, or we don't. It should be up to no person to decide what laws we should and shouldn't abide by.

I actually think that making it as difficult as possible for them to enter by providing as many obstacles as possible to get such as a wall might make them realize that it is easier to enter this country legally than go through all the shit that they have to go through when they decide to do so legally. A wall may not stop all of them but by providing enough barriers that it makes them realize the easiest route to go in this country is by getting in line like every other immigrant to this country.

If we just take away their reason for coming, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I always say that going after the cause is better than battling an effect.

That doesn't get enforced either because if you ever worked where there were a lot of hispanics you know that, by some of their conversations, that they are not from this country. I'm not saying that every hispanic person is an illegal but I have worked along side hispanics who were and, despite the background checks, they still are able to get a job.

Mandatory everify and HARSH punishment for employment.

 

[Daysahead]

Actually that's not true at all. I want Trumps immigration orders very much and it is a huge reason why people voted for him.MANY people want this

 

[Deleted member 53821]

I don't agree. The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.

There is also the issue of WHO we are as Americans at play. Are we the kind of people who are going to punish kids for what their parents did? We are a nation of immigrants and that also plays into it. How do we fix the problems but not become barbaric in the process? I see your argument that they wouldn't come over illegally if there aren't incentives but what are the incentives? Kind of depends on what immigrant you are.

There are jobs that pay better than in Mexico. Even if they are piss poor by American terms. Because of that people are willing to take horrendous gambles with their lives (and die) to come here. And they are willing to live in crap conditions if they have to. Others are escaping violence and lawlessness in their countries. What ever they get here is still likely to be better than what they face at home. Seems like some kind of work visa would be good - it would stem some of the illegal immigration, those people who are looking more for jobs then for citizenship and give us better control over who is in our country.

So you think people that are escaping poverty and crime will go through a work visa process? lol
Jobs are incentive. That's why we need mandatory everify and HARSH punishments for employers.
Its punishing to a lot more people to let them stay. Like American citizens. Do they not count?
The problem is in viewing it as an all or nothing.
We either have laws, or we don't. It should be up to no person to decide what laws we should and shouldn't abide by.

I actually think that making it as difficult as possible for them to enter by providing as many obstacles as possible to get such as a wall might make them realize that it is easier to enter this country legally than go through all the shit that they have to go through when they decide to do so legally. A wall may not stop all of them but by providing enough barriers that it makes them realize the easiest route to go in this country is by getting in line like every other immigrant to this country.

If we just take away their reason for coming, we wouldn't have to worry about it.
I always say that going after the cause is better than battling an effect.

That doesn't get enforced either because if you ever worked where there were a lot of hispanics you know that, by some of their conversations, that they are not from this country. I'm not saying that every hispanic person is an illegal but I have worked along side hispanics who were and, despite the background checks, they still are able to get a job.

Mandatory everify and HARSH punishment for employment.

That would be OK to. I would like to see entire businesses be confiscated if there is evidence to show that they blatantly violated the law on immigration. That would scare the holy crap out of any business owner who thinks that is a good idea.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

SD, the majority of Americans do not want a round up and mass deportation.

They want a pathway to normalization, at the very least, and the removal of criminal illegals to their home country and the imprisonment of those who hurt illegals.

If you have masses number of people violating the law then you have to enforce the law for all of them because it would seem kind of unfair for some to get exceptions while others have to go. What makes Jose the farm worker any different that Juan the Janitor? Their isn't anything in the law that grants an exception so they all must go. Perhaps not all at once but they must go and get in a line just like every other immigrant to this country has done.

Yup my brothers in law can not get in the Country from the Philippines due to immigration laws but we should legalize millions of law breakers here illegally.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Another thread that starts off with a false premise.

No one wants NO immigration laws , or totally open borders .

Everyone agrees that the current system is not good.

How is it false? No one to my knowledge has ever proposed changing the laws and the people who don't want the immigration laws enforced really don't want immigration laws in the first place and this is there way of accomplishing that goal. I would think that people who vote in the democratic party would actually understand the meaning of it's root...democracy.

It's false because no one is calling for NO immigration laws.

No they are just demanding we not enforce the laws we have. Same thing.

 

[Clementine]

if the people don't want the immigration laws enforced then why did they bother to create them in the first place? It just seems like we have all became slightly detached from democracy if we think that the executive branch is the sole decision maker on what the rules are going to be in this country. The left is pissed off that Trump dares to enforce the laws that the democratic branch of our government created with the consent of the people they represent. How can you be pissed off at Trump for enforcing what is already there and why haven't these same people simply just work to change the immigration laws if they don't like them? I suspect that that route would be beyond their comprehension since it would require getting popular opinion and approval of the people. It is just much easier to ***** at the guy that is enforcing the laws as if he was the only guy who is responsible for their creation. It just seems like to me that they act as if Trump created these immigration laws a few months ago when he got elected.

A very dangerous precedent has been set because of the way laws have been ignored arbitrarily. While people faced consequences for disobeying the Obamacare law, our government was just choosing not to respect immigration laws on the books. When that is allowed, it means we have tyrants in charge and that laws are meaningless because any law can be either upheld or ignored on a whim. All laws become meaningless.

Some states were sued by Obama's DOJ for trying to enforce the immigration law. Let that sink in. Attempts to uphold the law caused the Obama administration to take action. ICE was ordered to ignore what was on the books and do as the president pleased. Tyranny.

Sanctuary cities continue to flout the federal laws. What if some states had opted to ignore the Obamacare law? Would they have gotten away with it? No, because it's a federal law and the IRS would be after you. Despite immigration laws being federal, no one is going after those who break them.

 

[Slyhunter]

SD, the majority of Americans do not want a round up and mass deportation.

They want a pathway to normalization, at the very least, and the removal of criminal illegals to their home country and the imprisonment of those who hurt illegals.

Deport all illegal aliens, and start with my ex-wife and her Mehican second husband.. Deport them all.

 

[BluesLegend]

if the people don't want the immigration laws enforced then why did they bother to create them in the first place? It just seems like we have all became slightly detached from democracy if we think that the executive branch is the sole decision maker on what the rules are going to be in this country. The left is pissed off that Trump dares to enforce the laws that the democratic branch of our government created with the consent of the people they represent. How can you be pissed off at Trump for enforcing what is already there and why haven't these same people simply just work to change the immigration laws if they don't like them? I suspect that that route would be beyond their comprehension since it would require getting popular opinion and approval of the people. It is just much easier to ***** at the guy that is enforcing the laws as if he was the only guy who is responsible for their creation. It just seems like to me that they act as if Trump created these immigration laws a few months ago when he got elected.

They don't dare change them to what they prefer because they know the American people would immediately eject them from office.

BINGO!! The American people would throw a fit, this is why immigration reform aka traitorous amnesty for illegals has been DOA in congress for decades.

 

[Dschrute3]

Let's first start enforcing Immigration Laws. Secure the border and end Illegal Immigration. I won't be satisfied until that happens. But reforming our Immigration System has to happen too. It's a chaotic mess.

 

[MaryL]

if the people don't want the immigration laws enforced then why did they bother to create them in the first place? It just seems like we have all became slightly detached from democracy if we think that the executive branch is the sole decision maker on what the rules are going to be in this country. The left is pissed off that Trump dares to enforce the laws that the democratic branch of our government created with the consent of the people they represent. How can you be pissed off at Trump for enforcing what is already there and why haven't these same people simply just work to change the immigration laws if they don't like them? I suspect that that route would be beyond their comprehension since it would require getting popular opinion and approval of the people. It is just much easier to ***** at the guy that is enforcing the laws as if he was the only guy who is responsible for their creation. It just seems like to me that they act as if Trump created these immigration laws a few months ago when he got elected.

I can't get my mind around certain aspects of American culture NOW. The near schizophrenic attitude on any law and the enforcement of those laws, there is a major disconnect going on here. I recommend that liberals, conservatives and anyone else that hires or promotes open borders try living with Mexican illegal aliens for a couple of years. Stop the rhetoric and bullshit. Just do IT. When they poison your dog, sideswipe your car, vandalize your property, threaten you with death, molest your kids, trash your neighborhood, keep you awake with loud music, etc etc, you will change your attitude. Until people have to actually LIVE with the consequences of allowing illegals, they will never understand the full scope of the problem.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I propose one bill that (1) better secures the border, (2) makes e-verify mandatory along with the death penalty for businesses that knowingly hire illegals, and that would include triple forfeiture of stockholders' dividends, (3) deportation of violent illegals, and a pathway to normalization.

 

[Unkotare]

When people feel like they need to dramatize and emote; playing the poor, fainting victim in order to try and justify what is obvious and specific ethnic prejudice, they must not be able to support a position rationally.

 

[Clementine]

I propose one bill that (1) better secures the border, (2) makes e-verify mandatory along with the death penalty for businesses that knowingly hire illegals, and that would include triple forfeiture of stockholders' dividends, (3) deportation of violent illegals, and a pathway to normalization.

We need to secure the border.

We should make E-verify the law.

Your comment about death penalty for hiring illegals is stupid and makes me think you are just being facetious and don't mean a thing you said.

Violent illegals have been deported only to return immediately. Some have been deported many, many times.

Pathway to citizenship isn't possible when so many are living under the radar, using fake SSNs or stolen identities. There must be a strict set of conditions before considering this, such as no criminal record and individual must be working and paying taxes.

Also, the left must stop saying we need the cheap labor to keep the cost of fresh produce down.
Those cheap jobs, along with the ability to be subsidized by tax payers for having anchor babies, are why we have the problem with illegals in the first place.

And the left must stop crying about separating families. When a person robs a bank and gets sent to jail, no one cries about them being separated from their family. You realize that they knowingly did something and took that risk.

Mexico should welcome their own citizens and their children back to their country.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Clementine, the only possible honest answer to your scree is "nonsense."

 

[Clementine]

Clementine, the only possible honest answer to your scree is "nonsense."

Instead of the usual hit and run post, how about you explain in detail why you disagree with what I said. I want to know why you disagree.

What is wrong with e-Verify?

Why should we allow illegals to work for dirt cheap wages and get subsidized by tax payers?

Why should we not worry that violent criminals can come back in no matter how many times we deport them?

Should illegals who break the law in non-violent ways, such as stealing identities and ruining people's credit, be allowed to stay? What about those who have been caught selling drugs? How much will the left forgive? Many judges have let illegals off the hook for destroying people financially because the illegal claimed that they didn't know the identity they were using belonged to another person.

What is the point of deporting anyone when they can immediately cross back over the border?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Clemmie, you did not read what I wrote about e-verify, did you? Talk about hit and run.

Put them on a pathway to normalization and immigrants won't have to work for slave wages.

Clemmie, you did not read what I wrote about removing violent criminals, did you?

Why should we not worry that violent criminals can come back in no matter how many times we deport them?

Clemmie, you did not read what I wrote about better border security, did you?

You are on personal ignore for this thread.