Why Is There Controversy Over Confederate Monuments?

[Markle]

Johnson supported Civil Rights because it was the right thing to do. His writings and presidential documents show that

 

[edward37]

Gas in a death camp?? Now you've gone too far Divine You're a liar first class

My apologies. I got my Southerner-haters mixed up.

Damn right. The treasonous bastards. They need to get what they deserved and treated as they treated others.
You know, tearing families apart, whippings and hangings. Making those white trash bastards toil in the fields with no pay.

What is extremely bizarre is still having a controversy over the Civil War. If the North had done the right thing and taken all the land from the treasonous bastards and left them homeless and without. To the victor goes the spoils.
Every traitor needed to have all of their domains taken from them.

Great American General.

Yes, you Yankees fucked up when you didn't march every Confederate to the showers and gassed them.

Should send a picture of it to Divine so it can be hung in her living room

LOL. Haters gonna hate. Figures you don't only hate Southerners.

truth be told I don't care much for republicans anywhere I do my best to avoid them Dems I lke a little more

 

[Markle]

You're not getting it.

There is a formula.

White + evangelical + uneducated + Nascar fan + Gay hater + Republican + dental problems + religious intolerance + trailer park + no plumbing = redneck.

There is a lot more to being a redneck

Why go out of your way to demonstrate your ignorance and prejudice?

 

[rightwinger]

Johnson supported Civil Rights because it was the right thing to do. His writings and presidential documents show that

Conservative propaganda
What LBJ is reported as saying was that he had lost the southern vote

Blacks had been voting Democratic since FDR, LBJ didn't need their vote

 

[JakeStarkey]

You're not getting it.

There is a formula.

White + evangelical + uneducated + Nascar fan + Gay hater + Republican + dental problems + religious intolerance + trailer park + no plumbing = redneck.

There is a lot more to being a redneck

Why go out of your way to demonstrate your ignorance and prejudice?

You are engaged in turn speaking yet again, where_r. Now we will wait for your parroting.

 

[Little-Acorn]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

That's the main reason for the Civil War. But it wasn't the only reason.

The Constitution says that all duties, excises etc, must be the same for all ports, stations etc. Those were the only taxes the Fed govt could collect, since there were no income taxes before the war (they were unconstitutional).So the Northern-dominated house (North had greater population than the South) got into the habit of passing duty and excise taxes on things that were mostly produced or imported/exported by the South, and then announcing that these taxes were to be applied just as much to these materials when they went through Northern ports as Southern, so that made them equal according to the Constitution. And the Senate (equally representing North and South) would approve them once the VP's tiebreaking vote (by a Northern VP) was applied. Except that few of them came through Northern ports. So the South wound up paying huge taxes to the Fed govt, while the North paid little.

Ditto for spending programs. They were designed for things applicable to the North that weren't done much in the South, so the North got the lion's share while the South, who paid the most taxes, got the least benefits.

Slavery was the most important issue of the Civil War, and the war would have been worth fighting even if it were the only issue. But economic tax/spend inequalities also did a lot to cause the South to secede. That's not normally mentioned, since what the North was doing was indefensible. Northerners felt the Southerners were so wicked and eeeevil with their slavery, that economic abuse was justified. So a million people died.

 

[rightwinger]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

That's the main reason for the Civil War. But it wasn't the only reason.

The Constitution says that all duties, excises etc, must be the same for all ports, stations etc. Those were the only taxes the Fed govt could collect, since there were no income taxes before the war (they were unconstitutional).So the Northern-dominated house (North had greater population than the South) got into the habit of passing duty and excise taxes on things that were mostly produced or imported/exported by the South, and then announcing that these taxes were to be applied just as much to these materials when they went through Northern ports as Southern, so that made them equal according to the Constitution. And the Senate (equally representing North and South) would approve them once the VP's tiebreaking vote (by a Northern VP) was applied. Except that few of them came through Northern ports. So the South wound up paying huge taxes to the Fed govt, while the North paid little.

Ditto for spending programs. They were designed for things applicable to the North that weren't done much in the South, so the North got the lion's share while the South, who paid the most taxes, got the least benefits.

Slavery was the most important issue of the Civil War, and the war would have been worth fighting even if it were the only issue. But economic tax/spend inequalities also did a lot to cause the South to secede. That's not normally mentioned, since what the North was doing was indefensible. Northerners felt the Southerners were so wicked and eeeevil with their slavery, that economic abuse was justified. So a million people died.

Revenue issues could have been resolved without a war

When 40% of your population is slave, you have a lot of capital tied up in that "property". They panicked when Lincoln got elected and started a war that led to them losing their slaves in four years instead of the decades it would have taken otherwise

 

[paperview]

And all the bells was ringing........

NOte the focus on the soldiers, the fight, and the complete absence of any racism or reference to slavery.

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

Indeed.

"The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism.
All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[paperview]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

That's the main reason for the Civil War. But it wasn't the only reason.

The Constitution says that all duties, excises etc, must be the same for all ports, stations etc. Those were the only taxes the Fed govt could collect, since there were no income taxes before the war (they were unconstitutional).So the Northern-dominated house (North had greater population than the South) got into the habit of passing duty and excise taxes on things that were mostly produced or imported/exported by the South, and then announcing that these taxes were to be applied just as much to these materials when they went through Northern ports as Southern, so that made them equal according to the Constitution. And the Senate (equally representing North and South) would approve them once the VP's tiebreaking vote (by a Northern VP) was applied. Except that few of them came through Northern ports. So the South wound up paying huge taxes to the Fed govt, while the North paid little.

.....

Piles of crapola.


These are the facts:



<click image to upsize>

 

[paperview]

I always love Lost Cause line about how it was the South paying "paying most of the cost for the federal government" or somesuch derivative thereof.

Tariffs!!!

They obviously haven't given it much though (and this bull****tery was first pushed by the Sons & Daughters of the Confederacy - as I stated earlier, in the late 19th, early 20th Century) who tried to whitewash history and change the southern textbooks for many, many generations.

Nine million southerners of which more than a third (3.5 million) were in bondage somehow accounted for most (!) of the revenue collected in the country (before the Civil War, the tariff the main source of pretty much all Federal revenue) of the goods that were imported -- not

not!...the 23 million who lived in the North.

OOOkkkay. lol.

I always wonder if they thought: Did consumers in the Northern states have a tariff discount card that we haven't heard about?

 

[paperview]

The Vice President of the Confederacy (who said "African Slavery was the cornerstone of the CSA")

Here he is on the tariff issue --

From an Alexander Stephens address to the Georgia legislature in November 1860:

"The next evil that my friend complained of, was the Tariff. Well, let us look at that for a moment.

About the time I commenced noticing public matters, this question was agitating the country almost as fearfully as the Slave question now is. In 1832, when I was in college, South Carolina was ready to nullify or secede from the Union on this account. And what have we seen?

The tariff no longer distracts the public councils. Reason has triumphed. The present tariff was voted for by Massachusetts and South Carolina. The lion and the lamb lay down together-- every man in the Senate and House from Massachusetts and South Carolina, I think, voted for it, as did my honorable friend himself.

And if it be true, to use the figure of speech of my honorable friend, that every man in the North, that works in iron and brass and wood, has his muscle strengthened by the protection of the government, that stimulant was given by his vote, and I believe every other Southern man. So we ought not to complain of that...Yes, and Massachusetts, with unanimity, voted with the South to lessen them, and they were made just as low as Southern men asked them to be, and those are the rates they are now at."

Alec Stephen's Speech to the Georgia Legislature

 

[paperview]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

That's the main reason for the Civil War. But it wasn't the only reason.

The Constitution says that all duties, excises etc, must be the same for all ports, stations etc. Those were the only taxes the Fed govt could collect, since there were no income taxes before the war (they were unconstitutional).So the Northern-dominated house (North had greater population than the South) got into the habit of passing duty and excise taxes on things that were mostly produced or imported/exported by the South, and then announcing that these taxes were to be applied just as much to these materials when they went through Northern ports as Southern, so that made them equal according to the Constitution. And the Senate (equally representing North and South) would approve them once the VP's tiebreaking vote (by a Northern VP) was applied. Except that few of them came through Northern ports. So the South wound up paying huge taxes to the Fed govt, while the North paid little.

Ditto for spending programs. They were designed for things applicable to the North that weren't done much in the South, so the North got the lion's share while the South, who paid the most taxes, got the least benefits.

Slavery was the most important issue of the Civil War, and the war would have been worth fighting even if it were the only issue. But economic tax/spend inequalities also did a lot to cause the South to secede. That's not normally mentioned, since what the North was doing was indefensible. Northerners felt the Southerners were so wicked and eeeevil with their slavery, that economic abuse was justified. So a million people died.

Revenue issues could have been resolved without a war

When 40% of your population is slave, you have a lot of capital tied up in that "property". They panicked when Lincoln got elected and started a war that led to them losing their slaves in four years instead of the decades it would have taken otherwise

Had a republican been elected 4 years earlier (and almost was - the KnowNothings split the vote) the South would have seceded in 1857.

Why are so many republicans defending the southern racist conservative democrats, and spitting on the GOP Party of Lincoln?


Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

 

[Correll]

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

compare MLK with the radical leftists at Berkley. Then lets talk about which side MLK would be on today.

Conservatives opposed MLK his whole life, they put him in jail, harassed his home

Stop trying to claim you supported him

You'r playing games with labels across time periods. DIshonest games.


Was Nixon a conservative?

 

[Correll]

The South should be celebrating moving beyond their racist past. Embrace the progress that has been made since the Civil Rights era. Make monuments to key Civil Rights leaders not to those who fought to maintain a slave state

And all the bells was ringing........

NOte the focus on the soldiers, the fight, and the complete absence of any racism or reference to slavery.

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

The only outrage I feel is that the City of NO had to do remove it in the middle of the night, under guard, wearing body armor.

I hope they preserve it and display it. I hope they even restore the inscription too so future generations can marvel at mans inhumanity to man.

Nothing in your post addressed my point.

in 1965 Joan Baez walked in Selma.

In 1971 she recorded a cover of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down.

She saw no contradiction.

MOre importantly neither did the rest of this nation, white or black.

No one came back at her and attacked her lefty activist cred because of it.


Which demonstrates, my point. For many generations, America as a whole has accepted the celebration of aspects of the Confederacy as harmless regional culture. Even lefties.


Until very recently, as race baiters have had to work harder and harder to find "racism" to pretend to be "outraged" about.

 

[Correll]

the South started the Civil War because they believed Lincoln would dismantle slavery. Not because he said he would, because he didn't, but because they believed he would.

That's the main reason for the Civil War. But it wasn't the only reason.

The Constitution says that all duties, excises etc, must be the same for all ports, stations etc. Those were the only taxes the Fed govt could collect, since there were no income taxes before the war (they were unconstitutional).So the Northern-dominated house (North had greater population than the South) got into the habit of passing duty and excise taxes on things that were mostly produced or imported/exported by the South, and then announcing that these taxes were to be applied just as much to these materials when they went through Northern ports as Southern, so that made them equal according to the Constitution. And the Senate (equally representing North and South) would approve them once the VP's tiebreaking vote (by a Northern VP) was applied. Except that few of them came through Northern ports. So the South wound up paying huge taxes to the Fed govt, while the North paid little.

Ditto for spending programs. They were designed for things applicable to the North that weren't done much in the South, so the North got the lion's share while the South, who paid the most taxes, got the least benefits.

Slavery was the most important issue of the Civil War, and the war would have been worth fighting even if it were the only issue. But economic tax/spend inequalities also did a lot to cause the South to secede. That's not normally mentioned, since what the North was doing was indefensible. Northerners felt the Southerners were so wicked and eeeevil with their slavery, that economic abuse was justified. So a million people died.

Revenue issues could have been resolved without a war

When 40% of your population is slave, you have a lot of capital tied up in that "property". They panicked when Lincoln got elected and started a war that led to them losing their slaves in four years instead of the decades it would have taken otherwise

Had a republican been elected 4 years earlier (and almost was - the KnowNothings split the vote) the South would have seceded in 1857.

Why are so many republicans defending the southern racist conservative democrats, and spitting on the GOP Party of Lincoln?


Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

Ask yourself why the Union that won that war, including the actual vets that won that war, embraced and celebrated their former enemies instead of "spitting on them"?

If you can answer that, you will be able to answer your own question.

 

[Correll]

Johnson supported Civil Rights because it was the right thing to do. His writings and presidential documents show that

Conservative propaganda
What LBJ is reported as saying was that he had lost the southern vote

Blacks had been voting Democratic since FDR, LBJ didn't need their vote

Not in the percentages they are now.

 

[Correll]

NOte the focus on the soldiers, the fight, and the complete absence of any racism or reference to slavery.

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

Indeed.

"The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism.
All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

The conservatives in question are either honestly believing the more scripted and inspirational quotes of his, or dishonestly using him as a foil to show the degeneration of the "Civil Rights" movement.


Still, it is hard to believe that if he could see today, with "issues" like Confederate Monuments, driving the "Civil Rights" movement, that he would really empathize with your pain, and not tell you to just enjoy the fruits of his victories and move on.


Also, he was just wrong about the Republican Party. Having real issues in his time doesn't prevent him from being stupidly wrong about other issues.

 

[rightwinger]

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

compare MLK with the radical leftists at Berkley. Then lets talk about which side MLK would be on today.

Conservatives opposed MLK his whole life, they put him in jail, harassed his home

Stop trying to claim you supported him

You'r playing games with labels across time periods. DIshonest games.


Was Nixon a conservative?

Nixon was mostly conservative but had liberal views on the environment and civil rights protections. We even had liberal Republucans back then

 

[Redfish]

"Old Dixie" is reference enough. They weren't just defeated they were driven down in a war of attrition.

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

compare MLK with the radical leftists at Berkley. Then lets talk about which side MLK would be on today.

Conservatives opposed MLK his whole life, they put him in jail, harassed his home

Stop trying to claim you supported him

was Robert KKK Byrd a conservative republican? Was George Wallace? Lester Maddox? Bull Conner? Hughey Long?

At the time I did support what King was doing. Peaceful correction of societal wrongs. As usual, you know nothing about which you speak.

 

[rightwinger]

Here is Joan Baez marching at selma in 1965

Here is JOan Baez covering The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, in 1971






IN 1971, the nation as a whole has for over 100 years, accepted as normal and harmless the South's celebration of various portions of the Confederacy as part of their Heritage.



This "outrage" is the manufacture of modern lefties that are just ginning up bullshit.

Agreed. The problem with racial politics is that, when they win, they lose by virtue of the fact they have nothing left to fight for. Therefore, they must continue to manufacture reasons to generate interest and, of course, funds and donations in which to line their pockets.

Interesting how Conservatives now honor the memory of MLK
When he was alive, they called him a commie, a racial agitator, a criminal
When MLK Day was proposed, conservatives fought against it every step of the way
Now they claim MLK as one of their own

compare MLK with the radical leftists at Berkley. Then lets talk about which side MLK would be on today.

Conservatives opposed MLK his whole life, they put him in jail, harassed his home

Stop trying to claim you supported him

was Robert KKK Byrd a conservative republican? Was George Wallace? Lester Maddox? Bull Conner? Hughey Long?

At the time I did support what King was doing. Peaceful correction of societal wrongs. As usual, you know nothing about which you speak.

They were all staunch CONSERVATIVES