Why is Obamacare unconstitutional but Medicare is not?

[SpidermanTuba]

Why is Obamacare unconstitutional but Medicare is not?

Do you get fined and/or go to jail if you don't participate in Medicare ? ......

If by "participate" you mean "pay for" - then yes. Not paying your Medicare tax is a crime.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

@ blue - SS is unsustainable ponzi scheme that government use as their own personal bank account.

The government by definition does not have a personal bank account.

Ponzi schemes aren't backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

Think again. Where SS money is now? IOU?

What else SS is then one giant ponzi scheme. You pay into it now, while someone else getting money. You also don't know if you'll ever be able to get any money. Think, dammit.

Ponzi schemes by definition are backed by no assets. If you think the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government is worthless, WTF are you doing posting here?!?! You should be busy liquidating you all assets valued in U.S. dollars, buying foreign assets, and adjusting your tinfoil hat, because if treasury obligations fail, so does the entire dollar.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

@ blue - SS is unsustainable ponzi scheme that government use as their own personal bank account.

The government by definition does not have a personal bank account.

Ponzi schemes aren't backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

Neither is Social Security

The IOU's in the SS fund carry the same level of faith and credit as any other treasury obligation.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

If you cannot at least admit this then you are incapable of a debate

Translation - "you don't agree with me, therefore, you are stupid."



Sorry bub, but that thing that shows up on your pay stub every week called "FICA" - it stands for "Federal Insurance Contributions Act" - that means you're being forced to buy insurance in the form of a tax.

Live with it.

 

[Terral]

Hi Spiderman:

Why is Obamacare unconstitutional but Medicare is not?

The Text of U.S. House's ObamaCare Bill is here. The unconstitutional apsect of the House/Senate Bills pertains to the 'Individual Mandates' (townhall.com) requiring every American to go out and buy health insurance. In case you are unaware (and you are), the president and his czars are part of the Executive Branch of our Three-branch Govt and the "Legislative Branch" (Senate and House of Representatives) is responsible for initiating this kind of 'Legislation' WITHOUT any arm twisting and STUPIDITY from ANYONE inside the corrupt Executive Branch.

In short: Obama is NOT supposed to have a health care bill and all of this ObamaCare STUPIDITY points to a 'broken government' in Washington DC ...

If Obama really wanted to create one job in the USA, he would deport one Illegal Alien Foreign National that is right now 'displacing' U.S. Workers from their JOBS. That is the responsibility of the out-of-control and corrupt Kenyan Foreign National now squatting in the White House. The fact that he even has an ObamaCare Bill speaks VOLUMES about our corrupt U.S. Federal Govt ...

These corrupt idiots in Washington D.C. allow millions and millions and millions of Illegal Aliens to run around loose EVERYWHERE to take our JOBS, then they have the nerve to force Americans to buy health insurance cuckoo ...

GL,

Terral

 

[sboyle24]

You shall not pass!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The government by definition does not have a personal bank account.

Ponzi schemes aren't backed by the full faith and credit of the United States of America.

Neither is Social Security

The IOU's in the SS fund carry the same level of faith and credit as any other treasury obligation.

Which is as worthless as the paper they are printed on. The U.S. is going bankrupt and not too soon down the road will eventually default on our debt if we don't get the deficits under control.

Social Security has been on an unsustainable path for years and the baby boomers will completely destroy the program once they are all drawing from it. There aren't going to be enough of the younger generation to sustain the benefits that are currently paid out and it will eventually collapse.

You forget that Social Security is a government program and like any government program can be scaled back or completely eliminated at any time by a simple vote of the Congress. There is no guarantee they won't do that some day.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Hi Spiderman:

Why is Obamacare unconstitutional but Medicare is not?

The Text of U.S. House's ObamaCare Bill is here. The unconstitutional apsect of the House/Senate Bills pertains to the 'Individual Mandates' (townhall.com) requiring every American to go out and buy health insurance.

Have you even read the bill? This is enforced through a 2.5% tax on income, not to exceed the average cost of a health-care plan. See section 401 of the bill you linked.


It is Constitutional to tax income.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Which is as worthless as the paper they are printed on.

Seriously, if you think U.S. Treasury obligations are worthless, why are busy posting here instead of shorting treasury ETF's ?!?

 

[Bern80]

Hi Spiderman:

Why is Obamacare unconstitutional but Medicare is not?

The Text of U.S. House's ObamaCare Bill is here. The unconstitutional apsect of the House/Senate Bills pertains to the 'Individual Mandates' (townhall.com) requiring every American to go out and buy health insurance.

Have you even read the bill? This is enforced through a 2.5% tax on income, not to exceed the average cost of a health-care plan. See section 401 of the bill you linked.


It is Constitutional to tax income.

IT IS NOT A TAX. When you are you going to get that through your skull? It is a law requiring you to do something. No tax is being collected for it and no tax pertains to it's enforcement. How does levying a tax on a mandate enforce said mandate?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

IT IS NOT A TAX. When you are you going to get that through your skull? It is a law requiring you to do something. No tax is being collected for it and no tax pertains to it's enforcement. How does levying a tax on a mandate enforce said mandate?

It is a tax. Says so right here, in the bill that lays it out:

15 PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES
SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
‘(A) IN GENERAL.—
The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.

There you go buddy. Its a tax, levied on income, under the authority of the 16th amendment. Suck on it.


But hey, I know you're not one to let FACTS get in your way!

 

[Bern80]

IT IS NOT A TAX. When you are you going to get that through your skull? It is a law requiring you to do something. No tax is being collected for it and no tax pertains to it's enforcement. How does levying a tax on a mandate enforce said mandate?

It is a tax. Says so right here, in the bill that lays it out:




But hey, I know you're not one to let FACTS get in your way!

Wrong yet again. The PENALTY for not COMPLYING with the mandate is a tax. congress can tax FOR the general welfare. Meaning they would somehow have tax people FOR the purpose of funding the mandate. They aren't doing that. YOU are paying for the mandate, the penalty for which is a tax.

 

[Contumacious]

Are you talking about Social Security of Medicare?

Both.

No authority was ever granted to the federal government to tax "A" in order to support "B".

.

I have no idea to what you are referring, its not possible to tax letters.

Parasites don't typically care where "their" income redistribution money come from.

.

 

[Claudette]

Everything I've read in the Constitution leads me to believe that the founders did not want the Govt to have to much control or limitless power.

I can't believe that the founders, who seemed to be pretty wise men, would approve of Meidcare, SS, Welfare and Medicaid. Taking money away from one group of folks and giving it to another??? These programs smack of Govt control and way too much power.

Just doesn't make much sense to me. How can they produce a document that frowns heavily on Govt having to much control and power and then put in a GW clause?

Unless the GW clause has nothing to do with Govt programs that provide money or services to anyone?? Wonder what would have happened if the SC had called FDR's bluff back int he 40's. Very interesting to think about.

It will also be very interesting to see if their are suites filed if the hc clusterfuck gets passed and the Govt tells people they have to buy insurance. Very interesting. It surely will be.

 

[Contumacious]

Everything I've read in the Constitution leads me to believe that the founders did not want the Govt to have to much control or limitless power.

I can't believe that the founders, who seemed to be pretty wise men, would approve of Meidcare, SS, Welfare and Medicaid. Taking money away from one group of folks and giving it to another??? These programs smack of Govt control and way too much power.

Just doesn't make much sense to me. How can they produce a document that frowns heavily on Govt having to much control and power and then put in a GW clause?

Unless the GW clause has nothing to do with Govt programs that provide money or services to anyone?? Wonder what would have happened if the SC had called FDR's bluff back int he 40's. Very interesting to think about.

It will also be very interesting to see if their are suites filed if the hc clusterfuck gets passed and the Govt tells people they have to buy insurance. Very interesting. It surely will be.

The marxists will impose their will no matter what . Resistance is futile and it makes you sound like you are mentally ill.

God bless the hammer and sickle.

.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

IT IS NOT A TAX. When you are you going to get that through your skull? It is a law requiring you to do something. No tax is being collected for it and no tax pertains to it's enforcement. How does levying a tax on a mandate enforce said mandate?

It is a tax. Says so right here, in the bill that lays it out:




But hey, I know you're not one to let FACTS get in your way!

Wrong yet again. The PENALTY for not COMPLYING with the mandate is a tax. congress can tax FOR the general welfare. Meaning they would somehow have tax people FOR the purpose of funding the mandate. They aren't doing that. YOU are paying for the mandate, the penalty for which is a tax.

Exactly. Its a tax. Glad you agree.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Everything I've read in the Constitution leads me to believe that the founders did not want the Govt to have to much control or limitless power.

The authority to tax for health care is Constitutional. The authority to tax for the general welfare is provided for in Article I Section 8 clause 1, and the authority to levy that tax on income is in the 16th amendment.

I can't believe that the founders, who seemed to be pretty wise men, would approve of Meidcare, SS, Welfare and Medicaid.

It doesn't really matter, they don't get a vote, they're dead.

 

[Claudette]

Everything I've read in the Constitution leads me to believe that the founders did not want the Govt to have to much control or limitless power.

The authority to tax for health care is Constitutional. The authority to tax for the general welfare is provided for in Article I Section 8 clause 1, and the authority to levy that tax on income is in the 16th amendment.

I can't believe that the founders, who seemed to be pretty wise men, would approve of Meidcare, SS, Welfare and Medicaid.

It doesn't really matter, they don't get a vote, they're dead.

Yes. Your right. They are dead and being dead they can't cast a vote. I just wonder how they would view how the GW clause has been used in our Govt?? It does seem to be open to interpritation. Depending on who's looking at it of course.

I just wonder what they would think of our Govt today??

Somehow I don't think they would be pleased at all.

 

[Bern80]

It is a tax. Says so right here, in the bill that lays it out:




But hey, I know you're not one to let FACTS get in your way!

Wrong yet again. The PENALTY for not COMPLYING with the mandate is a tax. congress can tax FOR the general welfare. Meaning they would somehow have tax people FOR the purpose of funding the mandate. They aren't doing that. YOU are paying for the mandate, the penalty for which is a tax.

Exactly. Its a tax. Glad you agree.

mandating that people purchase health care IS NOT A TAX. which is different from taxing people for not purchasing it. They are not taxing FOR the purpose of funding the mandate, which is what the general welfare clause says they can tax for. They are taxing you if you don't comply with the mandate. I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

 

[Bern80]

Everything I've read in the Constitution leads me to believe that the founders did not want the Govt to have to much control or limitless power.

The authority to tax for health care is Constitutional. The authority to tax for the general welfare is provided for in Article I Section 8 clause 1, and the authority to levy that tax on income is in the 16th amendment.

Which is NOT what they would be doing by mandating that people purchase health insurance.