Why is naturalism considered scientific and creationism is not ?

[Youwerecreated]

Chimps and gorillas, in fact, suffer from a form of HIV that affects only them. That virus has been used as a model for human HIV in research looking for a cure to human AIDS. How many times do I need to correct your mistakes? You know, there is something available on the internet that might help you find the right answers. It's called Google. Alternatively, you can use Bing. Or you can take some college level science classes. You choose.

Correct me with conjecture

HIV-Like Virus Found in Gorillas
Sean Markey
for National Geographic News
November 9, 2006

A form of HIV has been found in wild gorillas in western central Africa. This is the first time the AIDS-causing virus has been detected in primates other than chimps and humans.

HIV-Like Virus Found in Gorillas

Can you recognize conjecture ?

So, your evidence that I am presenting conjecture is an article that actually verifies that what I was saying is true? Facepalm time.

Simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) is real, dude. You have been corrected. Are you going to acknowledge it, or are you going to sink even further into the quagmire of your own denial?

You are getting desperate.

"We found they were infected—and to our surprise are infected with a virus which is closely related to the one we find in chimpanzees and also in humans."


What Is HIV?

To understand what HIV is, let’s break it down:

H – Human – This particular virus can only infect human beings.

I – Immunodeficiency – HIV weakens your immune system by destroying important cells that fight disease and infection. A "deficient" immune system can't protect you.

V – Virus – A virus can only reproduce itself by taking over a cell in the body of its host.

Human Immunodeficiency Virus is a lot like other viruses, including those that cause the "flu" or the common cold. But there is an important difference – over time, your immune system can clear most viruses out of your body. That isn't the case with HIV – the human immune system can't seem to get rid of it. Scientists are still trying to figure out why.

We know that HIV can hide for long periods of time in the cells of your body and that it attacks a key part of your immune system – your T-cells or CD4 cells. Your body has to have these cells to fight infections and disease, but HIV invades them, uses them to make more copies of itself, and then destroys them.

Over time, HIV can destroy so many of your CD4 cells that your body can't fight infections and diseases anymore. When that happens, HIV infection can lead to AIDS.
What Is AIDS?

To understand what AIDS is, let’s break it down:

A – Acquired – AIDS is not something you inherit from your parents. You acquire AIDS after birth.

I – Immuno – Your body's immune system includes all the organs and cells that work to fight off infection or disease.

D – Deficiency – You get AIDS when your immune system is "deficient," or isn't working the way it should.

S – Syndrome – A syndrome is a collection of symptoms and signs of disease. AIDS is a syndrome, rather than a single disease, because it is a complex illness with a wide range of complications and symptoms.

Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome is the final stage of HIV infection. People at this stage of HIV disease have badly damaged immune systems, which put them at risk for opportunistic infections (OIs).

You will be diagnosed with AIDS if you have one or more specific OIs, certain cancers, or a very low number of CD4 cells. If you have AIDS, you will need medical intervention and treatment to prevent death.

For more information, see CDC’s Basic Information About HIV And AIDS.
Where Did HIV Come From?

Scientists believe HIV came from a particular kind of chimpanzee in Western Africa. Humans probably came in contact with HIV when they hunted and ate infected animals. Recent studies indicate that HIV may have jumped from monkeys to humans as far back as the late 1800s.

For more information, see CDC's Where Did HIV Come From?
HIV/AIDS 101
What Is HIV/AIDS? How Do You Get HIV or AIDS? Signs & Symptoms U.S. Statistics Global Statistics A Timeline of AIDS

Yes double face palm.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What evidence, where?

The evidence of mutation fixation.The mutation rate.Defense mechanisms preventing mutations from taking over a gene pool. The limits on adapting in organisms. Just to name a few.

Making shit up is not the same as presenting scientific evidence.

I can't help it you can't understand you're wrong.

 

[orogenicman]

The evidence of mutation fixation.The mutation rate.Defense mechanisms preventing mutations from taking over a gene pool. The limits on adapting in organisms. Just to name a few.

Making shit up is not the same as presenting scientific evidence.

I can't help it you can't understand you're wrong.

Here is how it works, YWC.
You present a thesis. Then you make an argument supporting your thesis using EVIDENCE. Then using that evidence, you try to convince others that your thesis is valid. You present statistical error to root out bias and other issues. Then we read it, and present our pros and cons. In this way, we have what is called a "diaologue". Want to try it? You might find it entertaining.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's not I that doubts his power.

Excellent. So if God took billions of years and pond scum to get to us, that would be okay with you?

According to the evidence he didn't though so what is your point ?

According to your evidence? LOL!
You don't even understand the 2nd Law.

If you mean the scientific evidence, yes, it points to billions of years and pond scum.

 

[Youwerecreated]

So, your evidence that I am presenting conjecture is an article that actually verifies that what I was saying is true? Facepalm time.

Simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) is real, dude. You have been corrected. Are you going to acknowledge it, or are you going to sink even further into the quagmire of your own denial?

That is your sides faulting reasoning because something is similar they must be the same. Same argument as Dna similarity.

If one species of immunodeficiency virus needs a different protein coating to become viral in its host as compared to another species of immunodeficiency virus, that doesn't mean that it is no longer an immunodeficiency virus. A leopard frog and a bull frog are two different species of frogs. But they are both still frogs.

So your response is going to be to delve even further into your quagmire of denial. That's just sad.

Do you understand the difference between inherited genetic disorders and ones that come from a break down of an individuals system ?

Why I raised the Hiv virus was because of the rarity. You got exposed, maybe google isn't your friend.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Making shit up is not the same as presenting scientific evidence.

I can't help it you can't understand you're wrong.

Here is how it works, YWC.
You present a thesis. Then you make an argument supporting your thesis using EVIDENCE. Then using that evidence, you try to convince others that your thesis is valid. You present statistical error to root out bias and other issues. Then we read it, and present our pros and cons. In this way, we have what is called a "diaologue". Want to try it? You might find it entertaining.

I would suggest learning what inheritance means first.

 

[orogenicman]

That is your sides faulting reasoning because something is similar they must be the same. Same argument as Dna similarity.

If one species of immunodeficiency virus needs a different protein coating to become viral in its host as compared to another species of immunodeficiency virus, that doesn't mean that it is no longer an immunodeficiency virus. A leopard frog and a bull frog are two different species of frogs. But they are both still frogs.

So your response is going to be to delve even further into your quagmire of denial. That's just sad.

Do you understand the difference between inherited genetic disorders and ones that come from a break down of an individuals system ?

Do you understand that in some individuals, a breakdown in individual systems can be inherited (i.e., can be a genetic disorder)?

Why I raised the Hiv virus was because of the rarity. You got exposed, maybe google isn't your friend.

What does the relative rarity of HIV have to do with anything?

 

[orogenicman]

I can't help it you can't understand you're wrong.

Here is how it works, YWC.
You present a thesis. Then you make an argument supporting your thesis using EVIDENCE. Then using that evidence, you try to convince others that your thesis is valid. You present statistical error to root out bias and other issues. Then we read it, and present our pros and cons. In this way, we have what is called a "diaologue". Want to try it? You might find it entertaining.

I would suggest learning what inheritance means first.

Dude, I have forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know. But hey, test me on it. I'm game.

By the way, you realize that you are moving the goalpost, right? RIGHT???

 

[Youwerecreated]

Excellent. So if God took billions of years and pond scum to get to us, that would be okay with you?

According to the evidence he didn't though so what is your point ?

According to your evidence? LOL!
You don't even understand the 2nd Law.

If you mean the scientific evidence, yes, it points to billions of years and pond scum.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law. You gave a weak argument and did not realize the important role genetic programming plays. The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

 

[Youwerecreated]

If one species of immunodeficiency virus needs a different protein coating to become viral in its host as compared to another species of immunodeficiency virus, that doesn't mean that it is no longer an immunodeficiency virus. A leopard frog and a bull frog are two different species of frogs. But they are both still frogs.

So your response is going to be to delve even further into your quagmire of denial. That's just sad.

Do you understand the difference between inherited genetic disorders and ones that come from a break down of an individuals system ?

Do you understand that in some individuals, a breakdown in individual systems can be inherited (i.e., can be a genetic disorder)?

Why I raised the Hiv virus was because of the rarity. You got exposed, maybe google isn't your friend.

What does the relative rarity of HIV have to do with anything?

Pay attention.

To understand what HIV is, let’s break it down:

H – Human – This particular virus can only infect human beings.

I – Immunodeficiency – HIV weakens your immune system by destroying important cells that fight disease and infection. A "deficient" immune system can't protect you.

V – Virus – A virus can only reproduce itself by taking over a cell in the body of its host.

Human Immunodeficiency Virus is a lot like other viruses, including those that cause the "flu" or the common cold. But there is an important difference – over time, your immune system can clear most viruses out of your body. That isn't the case with HIV – the human immune system can't seem to get rid of it. Scientists are still trying to figure out why.

We know that HIV can hide for long periods of time in the cells of your body and that it attacks a key part of your immune system – your T-cells or CD4 cells. Your body has to have these cells to fight infections and disease, but HIV invades them, uses them to make more copies of itself, and then destroys them.

Over time, HIV can destroy so many of your CD4 cells that your body can't fight infections and diseases anymore. When that happens, HIV infection can lead to AIDS.
What Is AIDS?

To understand what AIDS is, let’s break it down:

A – Acquired – AIDS is not something you inherit from your parents. You acquire AIDS after birth.

I – Immuno – Your body's immune system includes all the organs and cells that work to fight off infection or disease.

D – Deficiency – You get AIDS when your immune system is "deficient," or isn't working the way it should.

S – Syndrome – A syndrome is a collection of symptoms and signs of disease. AIDS is a syndrome, rather than a single disease, because it is a complex illness with a wide range of complications and symptoms.

Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome is the final stage of HIV infection. People at this stage of HIV disease have badly damaged immune systems, which put them at risk for opportunistic infections (OIs).

You will be diagnosed with AIDS if you have one or more specific OIs, certain cancers, or a very low number of CD4 cells. If you have AIDS, you will need medical intervention and treatment to prevent death.

For more information, see CDC’s Basic Information About HIV And AIDS.
Where Did HIV Come From?

Scientists believe HIV came from a particular kind of chimpanzee in Western Africa. Humans probably came in contact with HIV when they hunted and ate infected animals. Recent studies indicate that HIV may have jumped from monkeys to humans as far back as the late 1800s.

What Is HIV/AIDS?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Here is how it works, YWC.
You present a thesis. Then you make an argument supporting your thesis using EVIDENCE. Then using that evidence, you try to convince others that your thesis is valid. You present statistical error to root out bias and other issues. Then we read it, and present our pros and cons. In this way, we have what is called a "diaologue". Want to try it? You might find it entertaining.

I would suggest learning what inheritance means first.

Dude, I have forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know. But hey, test me on it. I'm game.

By the way, you realize that you are moving the goalpost, right? RIGHT???

it has always been about inheritance your ignorance on what you're arguing got exposed. Not moving the goalposts.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Also you do not understand viruses and that is why you made a foolish argument. You thought that Hiv was passed from parents through inheritance.

 

[orogenicman]

Do you understand the difference between inherited genetic disorders and ones that come from a break down of an individuals system ?

Do you understand that in some individuals, a breakdown in individual systems can be inherited (i.e., can be a genetic disorder)?

Why I raised the Hiv virus was because of the rarity. You got exposed, maybe google isn't your friend.

What does the relative rarity of HIV have to do with anything?

Pay attention.

To understand what HIV is, let’s break it down:

H – Human – This particular virus can only infect human beings.

I – Immunodeficiency – HIV weakens your immune system by destroying important cells that fight disease and infection. A "deficient" immune system can't protect you.

V – Virus – A virus can only reproduce itself by taking over a cell in the body of its host.

Listen up. I'm, only going to say this once (unless it goes right over your pointy little head, in which case, I may repeat it). Be it an HIV or a SIV, both are immunodeficiency viruses. Both have the same effect on their respective hosts.

Human Immunodeficiency Virus is a lot like other viruses, including those that cause the "flu" or the common cold. But there is an important difference – over time, your immune system can clear most viruses out of your body. That isn't the case with HIV – the human immune system can't seem to get rid of it. Scientists are still trying to figure out why.

They've long ago figured out why HIV cannot be eliminated by the human immune system. It can't be eliminated because it DESTROYS the immune system. HIV doesn't kill people. Because it destroys the immune system, it leaves one vulnerable to many other bacteria and viruses. And those diseases are what ultimately kill people.

We know that HIV can hide for long periods of time in the cells of your body and that it attacks a key part of your immune system – your T-cells or CD4 cells. Your body has to have these cells to fight infections and disease, but HIV invades them, uses them to make more copies of itself, and then destroys them.

 

[orogenicman]

I would suggest learning what inheritance means first.

Dude, I have forgotten more about the subject than you will ever know. But hey, test me on it. I'm game.

By the way, you realize that you are moving the goalpost, right? RIGHT???

it has always been about inheritance your ignorance on what you're arguing got exposed. Not moving the goalposts.

That you actually believe that you've made any sort of rational case for your argument is just sad.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

According to the evidence he didn't though so what is your point ?

According to your evidence? LOL!
You don't even understand the 2nd Law.

If you mean the scientific evidence, yes, it points to billions of years and pond scum.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law. You gave a weak argument and did not realize the important role genetic programming plays. The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law.

I'm not the one claiming the 2nd Law makes evolution impossible.
Look, when you take in energy, you can evolve.
Sorry you haven't taken in any energy or information for so long.

The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

So what?

 

[orogenicman]

Also you do not understand viruses and that is why you made a foolish argument. You thought that Hiv was passed from parents through inheritance.

Erm, what? Do point out where I ever made that case.

Having said that, and since YOU brought it up, here, HIV is passed from mother to fetus, though not via inheritance. What is interesting, though is not that the mother can infect the fetus; what is interesting is the research that made that determination in the first place. In trying to learn how the fetus became infected from the mother, it was discovered that the human genome contains fragments, and in a few cases, entire genomes of viruses. These are called endogenous retroviruses. HIV is a retrovirus, but is not endogenous.

Demystified . . . Human endogenous retroviruses

Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are a family of viruses within our genome with similarities to present day exogenous retroviruses. HERVs have been inherited by successive generations and it is possible that some have conferred biological benefits. However, several HERVs have been implicated in certain cancers and autoimmune diseases. This article demystifies these retroviruses by providing an insight into HERVs, their means of classification, and a synopsis of HERVs implicated in cancer and autoimmunity. Furthermore, the biological roles of HERVs are explored.

More at the link - highly recommended reading.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Do you understand that in some individuals, a breakdown in individual systems can be inherited (i.e., can be a genetic disorder)?



What does the relative rarity of HIV have to do with anything?

Pay attention.

To understand what HIV is, let’s break it down:

H – Human – This particular virus can only infect human beings.

I – Immunodeficiency – HIV weakens your immune system by destroying important cells that fight disease and infection. A "deficient" immune system can't protect you.

V – Virus – A virus can only reproduce itself by taking over a cell in the body of its host.

Listen up. I'm, only going to say this once (unless it goes right over your pointy little head, in which case, I may repeat it). Be it an HIV or a SIV, both are immunodeficiency viruses. Both have the same effect on their respective hosts.

Human Immunodeficiency Virus is a lot like other viruses, including those that cause the "flu" or the common cold. But there is an important difference – over time, your immune system can clear most viruses out of your body. That isn't the case with HIV – the human immune system can't seem to get rid of it. Scientists are still trying to figure out why.

They've long ago figured out why HIV cannot be eliminated by the human immune system. It can't be eliminated because it DESTROYS the immune system. HIV doesn't kill people. Because it destroys the immune system, it leaves one vulnerable to many other bacteria and viruses. And those diseases are what ultimately kill people.

We know that HIV can hide for long periods of time in the cells of your body and that it attacks a key part of your immune system – your T-cells or CD4 cells. Your body has to have these cells to fight infections and disease, but HIV invades them, uses them to make more copies of itself, and then destroys them.

I don't disagree with anything you said here but what does this have to do with genetic inheritance which is what this whole discussion was about ?

I will also like to give you evidence that is real, and not conjecture that supports the bibles account of creation.

All groups of organisms have mutations, and all groups of organisms have genetic disorders, and theses genetic disorders gets passed to the next generations.

Unless the first life was free of genetic disorders ,that is for each species ,how could a small group survive ? Then you have to acknowledge that every new family would have to overcome these genetic disorders to survive as well.In smaller populations this would be destructive to that small group.

This fits that all families were created as they were, and through microadaptations and cross breeding is where we get all the diversity in a family group. But I also believe God created many different species within a family group. So the genetic disorders that are found in each family was due to inheritance. The very thing you claimed was an aid in macroevolution would destroy small groups refuting the theory.

Remember the creation account is that each family started with a small group. the same would be for evolution so which theory is supported by the facts ?

If all organisms have genetic disorders and passed them on to their offspring for 2.7 billon years can you imagine the number of genetic disorders found in the human gene pool ? genetic disorders would have been passed to all these small groups which has happened, and we have seen the extinction of many species due to these genetic disorders.

 

[Youwerecreated]

According to your evidence? LOL!
You don't even understand the 2nd Law.

If you mean the scientific evidence, yes, it points to billions of years and pond scum.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law. You gave a weak argument and did not realize the important role genetic programming plays. The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law.

I'm not the one claiming the 2nd Law makes evolution impossible.
Look, when you take in energy, you can evolve.
Sorry you haven't taken in any energy or information for so long.

The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

So what?

You are claiming that order increased after 2 billion years for this planet. Look at the other planets in our solar system compared to Earth. You have no evidence to support this ever happened but your imagination.

So what ? the energy we get helps in reproduction but it is the genetic programming that allows the energy to be put to work. They need each other is that a coincidence ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Also you do not understand viruses and that is why you made a foolish argument. You thought that Hiv was passed from parents through inheritance.

Erm, what? Do point out where I ever made that case.

Having said that, and since YOU brought it up, here, HIV is passed from mother to fetus, though not via inheritance. What is interesting, though is not that the mother can infect the fetus; what is interesting is the research that made that determination in the first place. In trying to learn how the fetus became infected from the mother, it was discovered that the human genome contains fragments, and in a few cases, entire genomes of viruses. These are called endogenous retroviruses. HIV is a retrovirus, but is not endogenous.

Demystified . . . Human endogenous retroviruses

Human endogenous retroviruses (HERVs) are a family of viruses within our genome with similarities to present day exogenous retroviruses. HERVs have been inherited by successive generations and it is possible that some have conferred biological benefits. However, several HERVs have been implicated in certain cancers and autoimmune diseases. This article demystifies these retroviruses by providing an insight into HERVs, their means of classification, and a synopsis of HERVs implicated in cancer and autoimmunity. Furthermore, the biological roles of HERVs are explored.

More at the link - highly recommended reading.

You are trying to spin out of your horrible ignorant argument. What do you think my point was ? here I will tell you a rare genetic disorder that was passed from our ancestors would show genetic inheritance proving we are related.

Just admit this is something you forgot or ignorant of or ask for a refund from your institution.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law. You gave a weak argument and did not realize the important role genetic programming plays. The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

You are the one making an argument against the 2nd law.

I'm not the one claiming the 2nd Law makes evolution impossible.
Look, when you take in energy, you can evolve.
Sorry you haven't taken in any energy or information for so long.

The genetic programming provides the natural cycles.

So what?

You are claiming that order increased after 2 billion years for this planet. Look at the other planets in our solar system compared to Earth. You have no evidence to support this ever happened but your imagination.

So what ? the energy we get helps in reproduction but it is the genetic programming that allows the energy to be put to work. They need each other is that a coincidence ?

You are claiming that order increased after 2 billion years for this planet.

Isn't it obvious?

You have no evidence to support this ever happened but your imagination.

No evidence that things can get more complex when you add energy? Are you daft?

the energy we get helps in reproduction but it is the genetic programming that allows the energy to be put to work.

Awesome. Genetic programming allows things to use energy and get more complex.
Welcome to reality. Most of us have been here for quite some time.