Why is media claiming the GOP is shutting down the govt?

[JRK]

There is a bill from the house that funds the federal govt
why is the press claiming other?

Same old lies

Because the GOP will not pass a budget without getting their way with Obamacare.

No.....the Senate will not pass a budget without getting their way with Obamacare.

One vote has already been taken. The next no vote is the one that shuts down government. That would be a vote to deny the House bill.

The Democrats aren't even pretending to work with the GOP.

My point exactly with the press
This is a 2 way street and the press has made it a 1 way street

The govt was set up by the people for the people

People in Wheeler Texas have the same say as do the people of NY city

this is why it is called the house of rep.
as you well know

 

[JRK]

I'm posting about this in another thread.

Will summarize a little.

The Gov't doesn't actually SHUT DOWN. The Spending Gap is SHUT DOWN. We still receive 200 Billion a month to pay the bills, while the actual outlays are 290 to 300 Billion a month. Part of those outlays are 50 Billion a month on the Interest on the Debt. So, the sectors that get shut down are completely in the areas of non essential spending, and some essential to a tune of 90 to 100 BILLION A MONTH.

Therefore, the Gov't doesn't SHUT DOWN COMPLETELY as the IDIOTS running around continue to say. The Chicken Little Sky is falling BS that goes on with this Staged Act by both sides.

Why are they funding 987 or so Billion for 2 months when the actual cost for 2 months is about 580 to 600 BILLION.............................

News flash, the Treasury has been cooking the books to delay this BS and we will be paying for 2 months worth of creative financing......................................

Why only until December...........................

Round 2 of the Staged Standard play...........Temporary measures can no longer be justified BS, played on stage Act 2 Scene 98................1 year battle in December with all the standard BS..........Just in time for Christmas and for a year.....................

next battle after the elections next year...........................

And so it continues.

It's not "staged" at all.

The government is set to default on making payments.

This has dire consequences to all sorts of financial institutions and agencies..and that's world wide.

This isn't some "abstract and esoteric" argument, it's very real.

The government bought things on the installment plan. Reneging on that installment plan will trash the credit rating of the government.

Spare me. This battle should have taken place in August. The Feds cooked the books so part of the battle is bills already incurred because we are already past due.

Only creative financing of the Treasury prolonged this BS. Finally, you simply ignore the data that it's NOT A COMPLETE SHUTDOWN.

It's a GAP PER MONTH. So the Gov't doesn't actually SHUT DOWN. The Gap is LARGE, and will absolutely have large effects, but spare me the WHOLE DAMN HOUSE IS GOING TO FALL DOWN ROUTINE.

I wonder why the press is doing so much harm to this country?

 

[Nyvin]

"press" is rather confusing, you should at least say "pres"

 

[editec]

The GOP is in trouble because some of its t-baggers junior POLs actually believe the crap that the GOP pretends to believe about how evil government is and how much they want to reduce it..

Of course, in reality (for those of you not too damned stupid or lazy or partisan to look at the history of both parties) the leadership of both parties are big spending, big goverment statists.

 

[Darkwind]

The Senate "and" President won't pass a budget without funding Obamacare. Last I knew 2/3 > 1/3

Last time I checked, the House was the only branch of government that could pass a spending bill

Three branches of government. Legislative = Executive = Judicial

In Congress...House > Senate because the House represents the people and the Senate represents the States (another government body.

So, it does not matter what party holds what chamber or what branch. Neither chamber nor branch of government can dictate to the other what they will do with regard to their individual responsibilities.

Why is it that the Democrats won't even consider working with the GOP? Isn't compromise a big catch-phrase with you people these days?

Actually it's widely believed the Senate is the more powerful body.

Democrats have firmly stated ACA is not something to negotiate. Besides the fact that 80% of it is mandatory spending and mostly won't be affected by a shutdown.

Nobody is saying anything about "dictating" but that doesn't mean the house just gets it's way on whatever it wants. ACA is not on the table, sequester cuts and the like are.

Widely believed by whom? People who do not understand how our government works? Why would that even matter?

When Democrats firmly state that they will not negotiate, that is the same thing as saying "We will not compromise with you."

However, why is it that you believe that the Democrats are the ONLY ones who can say such things? The GOP in the House has already sent a bill that states that "We will not negotiate with keeping Obamacare in the CR."

They have as much right to do this as the Democrats.

The problem that the left has is that they are second position on this. The first party to promote an answer takes the lead. In other words, the ball is in the Democrats (Senate) court. To say no to the bill ( within their right ) is the no vote that stops the funding of the government.

Hence, the Democrats would be responsible for missing the October deadline.

If the Democrats has been honest and had some integrity, they would have started this discussion back in January. At that time, both sides could have taken the hard line and then began to work toward a compromise. And take My word seriously.

A compromise means that the Dems have to give ground on Obamacare, meaning that they have to give something up.

 

[JRK]

The GOP is in trouble because some of its t-baggers junior POLs actually believe the crap that the GOP pretends to believe about how evil government is and how much they want to reduce it..

Of course, in reality (for those of you not too damned stupid or lazy or partisan to look at the history of both parties) the leadership of both parties are big spending, big goverment statists.

NO
when you have a president as well as all of congress approve a 2.7 trillion dollar spending bill
no child left behind (A dem SENATE)
Medicare d
there not scared of big govt

Partisan?
The dems who are not negotiating

 

[Darkwind]

The GOP is in trouble because some of its t-baggers junior POLs actually believe the crap that the GOP pretends to believe about how evil government is and how much they want to reduce it..

Of course, in reality (for those of you not too damned stupid or lazy or partisan to look at the history of both parties) the leadership of both parties are big spending, big goverment statists.

NO
when you have a president as well as all of congress approve a 2.7 trillion dollar spending bill
no child left behind (A dem SENATE)
Medicare d
there not scared of big govt

Partisan?
The dems who are not negotiating

When editec starts saying teabagger's it is deep into its stash and has no rationality to discuss higher order concepts......Like clipping toenails or climbing out of bed.

Best to ignore it until rationality returns.

 

[Nyvin]

Widely believed by whom? People who do not understand how our government works? Why would that even matter?

When Democrats firmly state that they will not negotiate, that is the same thing as saying "We will not compromise with you."

However, why is it that you believe that the Democrats are the ONLY ones who can say such things? The GOP in the House has already sent a bill that states that "We will not negotiate with keeping Obamacare in the CR."

They have as much right to do this as the Democrats.

The problem that the left has is that they are second position on this. The first party to promote an answer takes the lead. In other words, the ball is in the Democrats (Senate) court. To say no to the bill ( within their right ) is the no vote that stops the funding of the government.

Hence, the Democrats would be responsible for missing the October deadline.

If the Democrats has been honest and had some integrity, they would have started this discussion back in January. At that time, both sides could have taken the hard line and then began to work toward a compromise. And take My word seriously.

A compromise means that the Dems have to give ground on Obamacare, meaning that they have to give something up.

/Sigh....okay education time.

The house's unique powers are largely restricted to being the chamber that originates spending bills and raising revenues. However any legislature they pass must still be approved of by the Senate and President, thus making it very difficult to put this power to practical use. Also a lot of times the Senate merely amends the house's bill to suit their interest. (Another power being the prosecution of a presidential impeachment)

The Senate's unique powers are approving treaties and approving executive appointments...which are largely independant of the house and thus much more empowering. (Another thing to mention is basically acting as Juror's for a presidential impeachment)

In conclusion...the house cannot act independently from the other bodies of government, while the Senate largely can.

This also brings up a response to your issue of "the first party to promote an answer" thing....they HAVE TO be the first party to promote an answer. It's their responsibility to promote an answer that is acceptable to the Senate and President. If what you're saying is right then in virtually EVERY SINGLE BUDGET SHOWDOWN IN HISTORY...the house would never have any blame for anything...ever. That is obviously nonsense.

 

[Darkwind]

Widely believed by whom? People who do not understand how our government works? Why would that even matter?

When Democrats firmly state that they will not negotiate, that is the same thing as saying "We will not compromise with you."

However, why is it that you believe that the Democrats are the ONLY ones who can say such things? The GOP in the House has already sent a bill that states that "We will not negotiate with keeping Obamacare in the CR."

They have as much right to do this as the Democrats.

The problem that the left has is that they are second position on this. The first party to promote an answer takes the lead. In other words, the ball is in the Democrats (Senate) court. To say no to the bill ( within their right ) is the no vote that stops the funding of the government.

Hence, the Democrats would be responsible for missing the October deadline.

If the Democrats has been honest and had some integrity, they would have started this discussion back in January. At that time, both sides could have taken the hard line and then began to work toward a compromise. And take My word seriously.

A compromise means that the Dems have to give ground on Obamacare, meaning that they have to give something up.

/Sigh....okay education time.

The house's unique powers are largely restricted to being the chamber that originates spending bills and raising revenues. However any legislature they pass must still be approved of by the Senate and President, thus making it very difficult to put this power to practical use. Also a lot of times the Senate merely amends the house's bill to suit their interest. (Another power being the prosecution of a presidential impeachment)

The Senate's unique powers are approving treaties and approving executive appointments...which are largely independant of the house and thus much more empowering. (Another thing to mention is basically acting as Juror's for a presidential impeachment)

In conclusion...the house cannot act independently from the other bodies of government, while the Senate largely can.

This also brings up a response to your issue of "the first party to promote an answer" thing....they HAVE TO be the first party to promote an answer. It's their responsibility to promote an answer that is acceptable to the Senate and President.

You think to lecture Me with statements like that?

The Senate cannot act without approval of the House, the same as the House cannot act without approval of the Senate. The chambers are considered equal in law. In regard to the Founding documents, the House is called the Peoples house because they are more directly involved with the citizens of this country. The Senate was to be representatives of the State from which they originate. This if 5th grade stuff and you seem to have failed to learn it.

There is only one issue at stake here. To pass legislation that spends money, the Congress must have a bill that has the approval of BOTH chambers.

I think you need to educate yourself before believing you are qualified to educate anyone else.

Now that your basic civics lesson is over, will you answer the question?

Why won't the Democrats work with the GOP?

Be quick about it. I don't have all day to sit on a forum teaching rudimentary government functions.

 

[Nyvin]

If what you're saying is right then in virtually EVERY SINGLE BUDGET SHOWDOWN IN HISTORY...the house would never have any blame for anything...ever. That is obviously nonsense.

Funny how you chopped off this last sentence as it does have a bearing of truth.

The same could be said in reverse...

Why won't the GOP work with the Democrats?

Actually I would argue the Senate's position is stronger having the approval of the sitting president.

 

[eagle1462010]

Widely believed by whom? People who do not understand how our government works? Why would that even matter?

When Democrats firmly state that they will not negotiate, that is the same thing as saying "We will not compromise with you."

However, why is it that you believe that the Democrats are the ONLY ones who can say such things? The GOP in the House has already sent a bill that states that "We will not negotiate with keeping Obamacare in the CR."

They have as much right to do this as the Democrats.

The problem that the left has is that they are second position on this. The first party to promote an answer takes the lead. In other words, the ball is in the Democrats (Senate) court. To say no to the bill ( within their right ) is the no vote that stops the funding of the government.

Hence, the Democrats would be responsible for missing the October deadline.

If the Democrats has been honest and had some integrity, they would have started this discussion back in January. At that time, both sides could have taken the hard line and then began to work toward a compromise. And take My word seriously.

A compromise means that the Dems have to give ground on Obamacare, meaning that they have to give something up.

/Sigh....okay education time.

The house's unique powers are largely restricted to being the chamber that originates spending bills and raising revenues. However any legislature they pass must still be approved of by the Senate and President, thus making it very difficult to put this power to practical use. Also a lot of times the Senate merely amends the house's bill to suit their interest. (Another power being the prosecution of a presidential impeachment)

The Senate's unique powers are approving treaties and approving executive appointments...which are largely independant of the house and thus much more empowering. (Another thing to mention is basically acting as Juror's for a presidential impeachment)

In conclusion...the house cannot act independently from the other bodies of government, while the Senate largely can.

This also brings up a response to your issue of "the first party to promote an answer" thing....they HAVE TO be the first party to promote an answer. It's their responsibility to promote an answer that is acceptable to the Senate and President. If what you're saying is right then in virtually EVERY SINGLE BUDGET SHOWDOWN IN HISTORY...the house would never have any blame for anything...ever. That is obviously nonsense.

So says you...............Pushing your nonsense equation of blame to the side you don't agree with....................

The House has the power of the purse. And they don't have to agree with a damn thing you say.

Fool me once...........shame on you.............

Fool me twice...........shame on me...............

aka Sequester, Obama's plan, where they would cut later to avoid.................Never planned to HONOR HIS WORD back then or NOW.

So why the hell compromise with him when you can't believe a damn word he says...........

Back at you.

 

[eagle1462010]

If what you're saying is right then in virtually EVERY SINGLE BUDGET SHOWDOWN IN HISTORY...the house would never have any blame for anything...ever. That is obviously nonsense.

Funny how you chopped off this last sentence as it does have a bearing of truth.

The same could be said in reverse...

Why won't the GOP work with the Democrats?

Actually I would argue the Senate's position is stronger having the approval of the sitting president.

And no power to force their beliefs on the house.

Both sides are not budging. When you play a game of high stakes Chicken, it's who blinks first.

BTW.

Do you want an INSTANT BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT. Then shut down the gap and force reductions.

Instantly, via not raising the debt ceiling............................

You now have a 200 Billion budget per month. How do you choose to spend it.

 

[Nyvin]

Look....the whole premise to this entire thread is basically saying since the house is the one who proposed a bill they are blameless for any future shutdown that might occur.

I'm saying that's nonsense because by law they "HAVE TO" be the one to originate a spending bill. If passing some crazy bill is all you have to do to avoid the public blaming you for not having a budget then every single house of reps in our entire history is free of guilt unless they sit on their butts and look at the ceiling the whole time.

 

[eagle1462010]

Look....the whole premise to this entire thread is basically saying since the house is the one who proposed a bill they are blameless for any future shutdown that might occur.

I'm saying that's nonsense because by law they "HAVE TO" be the one to originate a spending bill. If passing some crazy bill is all you have to do to avoid the public blaming you for not having a budget then every single house of reps in our entire history is free of guilt unless they sit on their butts and look at the ceiling the whole time.

Then where is the presidential budget plan for the next year............

Where is the Democratic Budget proposal.......................

You talk like there are no Dems in the House at all.................

next.....................

 

[eagle1462010]

It's easy to complain about someone else's proposals while submitting none in return.

It's better to ignore the Budget all together, even when you have control of both houses for 2 years and still don't pass one with a Super Majority.

Only to play the blame game on others, while not even doing your job to begin with.

 

[Nyvin]

It's easy to complain about someone else's proposals while submitting none in return.

It's better to ignore the Budget all together, even when you have control of both houses for 2 years and still don't pass one with a Super Majority.

Only to play the blame game on others, while not even doing your job to begin with.

The Democrat-led Senate last passed a budget on April 29, 2009

they also passed a proposal on on march 23rd, 2013

They dont' have the votes to pass one in the house

 

[eagle1462010]

It's easy to complain about someone else's proposals while submitting none in return.

It's better to ignore the Budget all together, even when you have control of both houses for 2 years and still don't pass one with a Super Majority.

Only to play the blame game on others, while not even doing your job to begin with.

The Democrat-led Senate last passed a budget on April 29, 2009

they also passed a proposal on on march 23rd, 2013

They dont' have the votes to pass one in the house

And the CR's continue with no compromise. The Sequester was the GOP compromising which included cuts to the military if no cuts were found. The Dems promised to go to the table and replace the sequester cuts before they occurred.

Didn't happen. They now have no credibility in any negotiation.

Cuts proposed on a dotted line or else this time. No BS this time.

Or the Semi Trucks collide.

 

[eagle1462010]

President Obama's Predictable Budget: More Spending, More Tax Increases - Forbes

Increased Federal Outlays.................

Increased debt.......................

Refunding Sequester funds.................

and more taxation..........................

Some budget proposal......................

 

[Redfish]

President Obama's Predictable Budget: More Spending, More Tax Increases - Forbes

Increased Federal Outlays.................

Increased debt.......................

Refunding Sequester funds.................

and more taxation..........................

Some budget proposal......................

This is all part of obama's stated goal of fundamentally changing the country--------by destroying the economy and our culture.

And, because of the braindead media, he is succeeding.

We have lost our minds in this country. We are voting for our own destruction. the founders are rolling in their graves watching what this once great country is becoming.

 

[eagle1462010]

LMAO..............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S0nTs6WEk0]Obama on Sequestration, Then and Now - YouTube[/ame]