why is it so important to prove god does not exist.....

[KittenKoder]

Nobody gets a pass for killing anybody. What is important, however, is why they killed millions. If it is in the name of religion, then they should be held to account for it.

how do you hold dead people accountable.....believers and non-belivers have killed millions because of their beliefs.....evil people are evil....people have been killed because they believe...because they don't believe....atheists and popes have commited genocide.....

still don't get why it is important to prove god doesn't exist.....

I'm not saying God doesn't exist. I'm a Christian, albeit a lazy one.

However, if God did not exist, I would want to know.

Have to ask, why would you want to know?

 

[Avatar4321]

Have to ask, why would you want to know?

Why wouldnt you? I would. I want to know the truth just to know the truth.

Granted, my life is at a point where i have no doubt there is a God.

 

[KittenKoder]

Have to ask, why would you want to know?

Why wouldnt you? I would. I want to know the truth just to know the truth.

Granted, my life is at a point where i have no doubt there is a God.

Fair enough. Though I wouldn't care either way, it wouldn't change my personal beliefs in any way. If they did prove it either way (though no one really is) then it wouldn't even change science much really.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

So, what was god doing the holocaust? On vacation or something? It's OK, it dosent matter anymore. God does his thing and we just keep on tuckin' like nothing was wrong. Or perhaps, it's all ranmdom meaneingles hapenstance and read too much into things.

 

[manu1959]

So, what was god doing the holocaust? On vacation or something? It's OK, it dosent matter anymore. God does his thing and we just keep on tuckin' like nothing was wrong. Or perhaps, it's all ranmdom meaneingles hapenstance and read too much into things.

god is not a genie that grants wishes.......it would seem to me that those that found strength from their beliefs defeated evil....

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

God doesn't do much of anything but be ambiguous. Yep, we can depend on GOD to do absolutely nothing. Proves everything, because it proves nothing. I don't care. All that stuff about the universe being manufactured like watch? You know what I mean? Well, who made GOD? Oh, yeah, he just always existed and that ends the argument. No, it doesn't. It doesn't matter, one way or the other, any more than how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. You want to argue that, TOO?

 

[catzmeow]

it would seem to me that those that found strength from their beliefs defeated evil....

Except for the ones who were burnt to death.

 

[SW2SILVERQUASI]

I forgot, it's about faith. Faith, divinity transcendence and all that crap. Yep, How many angels can REALLY dance on the head of a pin? Who's gunna know? God exist, and YOU don't need proof. You have something else.

 

[Avatar4321]

So, what was god doing the holocaust? On vacation or something? It's OK, it dosent matter anymore. God does his thing and we just keep on tuckin' like nothing was wrong. Or perhaps, it's all ranmdom meaneingles hapenstance and read too much into things.

He has already paid a price in blood to make sure that everyone who dies will rise from the grave into Immortal glory. What on earth more do you expect Him to do?

 

[Avatar4321]

Except for the ones who were burnt to death.

You act like death is the end. It's not its just the beginning of the next stage.

If there was no life after death, you might have a point.

 

[KittenKoder]

Except for the ones who were burnt to death.

You act lie death is the end. It's not its just the beginning of the next stage.

If there was no life after death, you might have a point.

This is where you lose ground, many do not believe there is a life after, while I myself believe in the "it's just another step" this is not the only belief out there. However that still does not excuse any such acts as taking the life of someone innocent for any reason.

 

[Avatar4321]

This is where you lose ground, many do not believe there is a life after, while I myself believe in the "it's just another step" this is not the only belief out there. However that still does not excuse any such acts as taking the life of someone innocent for any reason.

I understand that not everyone believes. I also realize that it doesnt excuse such acts.

But if you are going to judge God, then you have to judge him in the standards of spiritual reality.

If God exists, there is an afterlife. Which means looking at things through the prism of "Bad things happen then you die" and then saying that proves God doesnt exist is missing the mark. If death is the end then it does seem logical that there would be no God because there would be injustice in the world.

However, when you are open to the possibility of life after death, then its really easy to see how God can be fixing the evils in this life. Everyone in life dies, whether in a horrible way or very natural way. And all will be restored to life.

God will restore what's lost.

 

[KittenKoder]

This is where you lose ground, many do not believe there is a life after, while I myself believe in the "it's just another step" this is not the only belief out there. However that still does not excuse any such acts as taking the life of someone innocent for any reason.

I understnad that not everyone believes. I also realize that it doesnt excuse such acts.

But if you are going to judge God, then you have to judge him in the standards of spiritual reality.

If God exists, there is an afterlife. Which means looking at things through the prism of "Bad things happen then you die" and then saying that proves God doesnt exist is missing the mark. If death is the end then it does seem logical that there would be no God because there would be injustice in the world.

However, when you are open to the possibility of life after death, then its really easy to see how God can be fixing the evils in this life. Everyone in life dies, whether in a horrible way or very natural way. And all will be restored to life.

God will restore what's lost.

Okay, I concede to the logic. It was just unclear when I read the other post.

 

[pagankmck]

well.....seems odd in america a country partly founded by people fleeing religious persecution with laws protecting us from a government run by the church or a church run by the government and laws protecting ones right to practice whatever religion one wants....

that there are people that seek to denigrate people that believe in god and seem bent on trying to prove god doesn't exist......

why do some of you feel so compelled......

ifferent people feel different ways. Not all irreligious people denigrate believers. Many believers denigrate believers. People denigrate others who don't see things their way.

 

[pagankmck]

Yeah, even though the believers have done more torturing, killing, and persecuting than the nonbelievers.

And Stalin didn't kill people for believing in God. Mao Tse Tung didn't either. They killed them because Stalin and General Mao were insane. Its like saying that we fought the Nazis because they didn't believe in Christianity. They didn't, but that's not why we fought them. And added together with the Kamir Rouge, etc. they still haven't killed, tortured, or persecuted as many believers as monotheistic religions have nonbelievers.

so the non-belivers of the last 1/2 century get a pass for killing millions ..... but christians who haven't done shit in what 500 years are still guility .....

It has been more recent than 500 years, maybe 100 years for last big one they were involved in as a large number (still nowhere near enough to blame all of them). But I won't argue your point because it is very valid.

Christians have doen lots of shit.

 

[Dr Grump]

based on what you have posted you would like to restrict them from voicing their opinion or voting on gay marriage.....

Absolutely. When their opinion encroaches on others' rights. Using your analogy, I should be allowed to vote on what religion you practice. In reality, it's none of my business because your religion should have no bearing on my life. Ditto bum bandits

 

[FactFinder]

well.....seems odd in america a country partly founded by people fleeing religious persecution with laws protecting us from a government run by the church or a church run by the government and laws protecting ones right to practice whatever religion one wants....

that there are people that seek to denigrate people that believe in god and seem bent on trying to prove god doesn't exist......

why do some of you feel so compelled......

They have been trying for thousands of years now and still are not successful. I think it is a self will issue and matter of egomania so let them keep beating their head against the wall. It appears that is all their head is good for.

 

[KittenKoder]

so the non-belivers of the last 1/2 century get a pass for killing millions ..... but christians who haven't done shit in what 500 years are still guility .....

It has been more recent than 500 years, maybe 100 years for last big one they were involved in as a large number (still nowhere near enough to blame all of them). But I won't argue your point because it is very valid.

Christians have doen lots of shit.

So have many non-christians. We just focus more on them because they are "closer" to us. Look at the M.E. for some others (and the most recent), as well as the Vikings for much older. There are also the Native American wars pre-invasion. Aztecs and Incans were pretty messed up to.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It has been more recent than 500 years, maybe 100 years for last big one they were involved in as a large number (still nowhere near enough to blame all of them). But I won't argue your point because it is very valid.

Christians have doen lots of shit.

So have many non-christians. We just focus more on them because they are "closer" to us. Look at the M.E. for some others (and the most recent), as well as the Vikings for much older. There are also the Native American wars pre-invasion. Aztecs and Incans were pretty messed up to.

But they had their own gods and none were atheists or agnostics, at least the cultures weren't. Recent religious wars: Al Qaida fights a holy war. Israel fights a holy war. Bosnia in the late 90s. Iran and Iraq in the 80s. The Taliban fight a holy war.

Has there ever been a war waged by those who were atheists or agnostics against those who have faith for that very reason? Stalin, General Mao, and Pol Pot didn't wage war against their own people because those people were religious. That was one of the "reasons" that they used to justify what they were doing, but it wasn't the reason why those mass killings happened, as religious people weren't the only victims of those totalitarian regimes.

 

[RodISHI]

Christians have doen lots of shit.

So have many non-christians. We just focus more on them because they are "closer" to us. Look at the M.E. for some others (and the most recent), as well as the Vikings for much older. There are also the Native American wars pre-invasion. Aztecs and Incans were pretty messed up to.

But they had their own gods and none were atheists or agnostics, at least the cultures weren't. Recent religious wars: Al Qaida fights a holy war. Israel fights a holy war. Bosnia in the late 90s. Iran and Iraq in the 80s. The Taliban fight a holy war.

Has there ever been a war waged by those who were atheists or agnostics against those who have faith for that very reason? Stalin, General Mao, and Pol Pot didn't wage war against their own people because those people were religious. That was one of the "reasons" that they used to justify what they were doing, but it wasn't the reason why those mass killings happened, as religious people weren't the only victims of those totalitarian regimes.

To say Israel fights a holy war is an error. For the most part the people of Israel are fighting for self preservation. It's certain nut cases claiming superior rights and calling for the detruction of Israel and America who are making that claim of it being a holy war that they are fighting when in fact there is nothing holy about destroying human life.





As for Milosevic and his goons mass murdering Muslims or anyone else who got in his way. Those people being slaughtered were not fighting a holy war they were being eliminated by some nut cases who made claims to being superior. If they were able to fight back it was a self defense measure. Not under some guise of it being holy.

The indictment..online

THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA


Case No. IT-01-51-I


THE PROSECUTOR OF THE TRIBUNAL


AGAINST


SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC


INDICTMENT

The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, pursuant to her authority under Article 18 of the Statute of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia ("the Statute of the Tribunal"), charges:


SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC


with GENOCIDE, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, GRAVE BREACHES OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS and VIOLATIONS OF THE LAWS OR CUSTOMS OF WAR as set forth below:


THE ACCUSED

1. Slobodan MILOSEVIC, son of Svetozar Milosevic, was born on 20 August 1941 in Pozarevac, in the present-day Republic of Serbia, one of the constituent republics of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia ("FRY"). In 1964, he graduated from the Law Faculty of the University of Belgrade and began a career in management and banking. Until 1978, he held the posts of deputy director and later general director at Tehnogas, a major oil company in the then Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia ("SFRY"). Thereafter, he became president of Beogradska banka (Beobanka), one of the largest banks in the SFRY, a post he held until 1983.



2. Slobodan MILOSEVIC, joined the League of Communists of Yugoslavia in 1959. In 1984, he became Chairman of the City Committee of the League of Communists of Belgrade. In 1986, he was elected Chairman of the Presidium of the Central Committee of the League of Communists of Serbia and was re-elected in 1988. On 16 July 1990, the League of Communists of Serbia and the Socialist Alliance of Working People of Serbia united, forming a new party named the Socialist Party of Serbia ("SPS"). On 17 July 1990, Slobodan MILOSEVIC was elected President of the SPS and remained in that post except during the period from 24 May 1991 to 24 October 1992.



3. Slobodan MILOSEVIC was elected President of the Presidency of the then Socialist Republic of Serbia on 8 May 1989 and re-elected on 5 December 1989. After the adoption of a new Constitution, on 28 September 1990, the Socialist Republic of Serbia became the Republic of Serbia, and Slobodan MILOSEVIC was elected to the newly established office of President of the Republic of Serbia in multi-party elections, held in December 1990. He was re-elected to this office in elections held on 20 December 1992.



4. After serving two terms as President of the Republic of Serbia, Slobodan MILOSEVIC was elected President of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia on 15 July 1997, beginning his official duties on 23 July 1997. Following his defeat in the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia’s presidential election of September 2000, Slobodan MILOSEVIC relinquished his position on 6 October 2000.



INDIVIDUAL CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY


Article 7(1) of the Statute of the Tribunal




cont.....at Milosevic "Bosnia and Herzegovina" - Initial Indictment