Why is it always Atheists vs Christians?

[newpolitics]

If the Bible is correct it is the World vs. Christians. Atheists are just humans given over to seducing spirits.
Christianity is presently the most persecuted religion on the earth. And it's about to get worse.

This is so pathetic. POOR CHRISTIANS. All that oppression and murder over the centuries has turned them into victims because people now see right through their bullshit. WHA!

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Really.

Share again your mealy-mouthed support of abortion....

I get it. Any statement that does not support outright protection by the government of all unborn life under all circumstances must be mealy-mouthed support of abortion.

Let me tell you a story. I was once married to a woman whom I got pregnant. She was unable to carry the baby to term without out risking her own life. I am not making this up in any way, shape, or form, although I am sure you are going to accuse me of lying. I wanted very much to have a child, but she was so sick from the pregnancy that there was genuine risk that she may not survive the pregnancy.

Making the decision to terminate was the most harrowing experience of our lives. There's not a day that goes by that it doesn't bother me. So, we made a decision" terminate that life or risk losing both her, or even both of them. So there, is that good enough for you? I made a choice, a choice that haunts me to this day. It was a choice in which there is nothing to feel but regret, no words to describe the choice that had to be made.

So, did I trample any rights? Hmmm? Any judgments you care to throw my way? Should the law have demanded her to carry the child even at the risk of her own life?

No, I'm not going to define for you every situation in which I feel that unborn life should be protected by law and every circumstance in which a choice must be made otherwise where it is none of the ******* government's business. You don't deserve to know. Because the truth of life is that we are not God. The government is not God. Now, you have every right to condemn me for the choice that I made, and I have every right to tell you that you are full of shit. But tell me, have we trampled each others rights by doing so?

So, whatever judgmental tripe you care to respond with I will happily read as always, but do yourself a favor, show some of the humility that the Bible tells you you should have, and don't even pretend to know anything about me or my beliefs, or how they might serve your arrogant self-serving agenda.

Really. So what was her condition called?

Because I think you're full of shit.

At any rate, it has NEVER been illegal for medically necessary abortion to take place...and it ever will be. Yet another lie perpetuated by the lying progressive nutbags who insist we must kill babies to save lives. It's a crock of shit, as it was when the Nazis claimed the same thing.

That's what I thought you would think. Ooh, and Nazis too. You're every bit as sensationalist as the progressive nutbags.

The condition is Uterus didelphys. It also manifested itself more severely than normal. In some cases a woman with a double-horned uterus can have only minor pregnancy complications. In the majority of cases the condition causes decreased fertility in women. However, in rarer cases, such as with my ex-wife, it causes increase fertility. Getting pregnant was almost too easy.

It's been a while since that experience. Since then, through Internet research, I have suspected that endometriosis was also involved, but I'm not a doctor. The severe complications and violent illness she suffered go beyond what is typical for uterus didelphys, which leads me to suspect that endometriosis, which sometimes accompanies uterus didelphys, was involved. For all I know the doctor even mentioned it, but I was so distraught at the time that I may not have processed everything clearly.

The OB/GYN in our case remarked that her situation was uncommon even for the condition. Such pregnancies have to be watched carefully because premature birth and miscarriage are common. Why she was so violently ill during the pregnancy is still not fully explained, but she literally could not eat or even keep any fluids down. Nothing. She started to waste away and before the end of the first trimester she almost started looking like Christian Bale from The Machinist.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to believe me, but the story is true. It is a situation I would not wish on anybody, even you. It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, I believe that unborn life deserves to be protected under the law, and I also believe there are situations in which an abortion is justified. I am not about to get into a detailed discussion with you about it because you lack the ability to discuss it maturely.Your knee-jerk assumption that I am lying makes any meaningful or even remotely productive discussion an impossibility.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Answer me this. Why do you feel the need to put your religious symbols on government buildings or property?

It's not about compelling anyone. It's about promoting one belief system over others on government land. And if that isn't establishing state religion it's damn close.

Answer me this. Do you believe that free speech and free press and free assembly is constitutional on public land while free exercise of religion, which is included in the 1st Amendment along with those others, is unconstitutional? Why? Religious belief is something held my millions of Americans. It would seem that secular free expressions and beliefs on public land are what is actually held over religious expression on public land when the 1st Amendment clearly includes it.

There is a clear difference between state endorsement of religion and allowing free expression of religious ideas or beliefs. The former is unconstitutional while the latter is not. If free speech, free press, and free assembly are allowed on public land while free exercise is also mentioned in the same context, then either it is ALL allowed on public land or NONE of it is.

There is the rub. Yes, I would be fine with religious groups using public land for meetings, gatherings etc... so long as all are allowed to do the same.

Where I draw the line is a monument specifically designed to trumpet your religion, on public lands, to other people. It is placing your mark on the government.

If you are honest, you would admit that if the roles were reversed, and muslims were the majority in this country, you as a christian, would be dead set against them putting their monuments on public land. So why would you expect any different for your group?

These things protect you too. Christianity may not always be the majority religion in the country.

The assumptions people make on this board never cease to amaze me. It is as if NOBODY pays attention. I am not a Christian. Your scenario as a premise means nothing to me.

 

[FA_Q2]

I get it. Any statement that does not support outright protection by the government of all unborn life under all circumstances must be mealy-mouthed support of abortion.

Let me tell you a story. I was once married to a woman whom I got pregnant. She was unable to carry the baby to term without out risking her own life. I am not making this up in any way, shape, or form, although I am sure you are going to accuse me of lying. I wanted very much to have a child, but she was so sick from the pregnancy that there was genuine risk that she may not survive the pregnancy.

Making the decision to terminate was the most harrowing experience of our lives. There's not a day that goes by that it doesn't bother me. So, we made a decision" terminate that life or risk losing both her, or even both of them. So there, is that good enough for you? I made a choice, a choice that haunts me to this day. It was a choice in which there is nothing to feel but regret, no words to describe the choice that had to be made.

So, did I trample any rights? Hmmm? Any judgments you care to throw my way? Should the law have demanded her to carry the child even at the risk of her own life?

No, I'm not going to define for you every situation in which I feel that unborn life should be protected by law and every circumstance in which a choice must be made otherwise where it is none of the ******* government's business. You don't deserve to know. Because the truth of life is that we are not God. The government is not God. Now, you have every right to condemn me for the choice that I made, and I have every right to tell you that you are full of shit. But tell me, have we trampled each others rights by doing so?

So, whatever judgmental tripe you care to respond with I will happily read as always, but do yourself a favor, show some of the humility that the Bible tells you you should have, and don't even pretend to know anything about me or my beliefs, or how they might serve your arrogant self-serving agenda.

Really. So what was her condition called?

Because I think you're full of shit.

At any rate, it has NEVER been illegal for medically necessary abortion to take place...and it ever will be. Yet another lie perpetuated by the lying progressive nutbags who insist we must kill babies to save lives. It's a crock of shit, as it was when the Nazis claimed the same thing.

That's what I thought you would think.

The condition is Uterus didelphys. It also manifested itself more severely than normal. In some cases a woman with a double-horned uterus can have only minor pregnancy complications. In the majority of cases the condition causes decreased fertility in women. However, in rarer cases, such as with my ex-wife, it causes increase fertility. Getting pregnant was almost too easy.

The OB/GYN in our case remarked that her situation was uncommon even for the condition. Such pregnancies have to be watched carefully because premature birth and miscarriage are common. Why she was so violently ill during the pregnancy is still not fully explained, but she literally could not eat or even keep any fluids down. Nothing. She started to waste away and before the end of the first trimester she almost started looking like Christian Bale from The Machinist.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to believe me, but the story is true. It is a situation I would not wish on anybody, even you. It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, I believe that unborn life deserves to be protected under the law, and I also believe there are situations in which an abortion is justified. I am not about to get into a detailed discussion with you about it because you lack the ability to discuss it maturely. Your knee-jerk assumption that I am lying makes any meaningful or even remotely productive discussion an impossibility.

That is an interesting and unusual situation (sorry, I don’t want to marginalize/degrade your experience and I feel for you but I have not heard of a case similar to this before). I am interested in your stance though. It is unusual to find a secular pro-life individual. When you state certain circumstances are you referring to anything specific like IDLH, rape etc. or do you support limited abortion based on other factors like time?

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Really. So what was her condition called?

Because I think you're full of shit.

At any rate, it has NEVER been illegal for medically necessary abortion to take place...and it ever will be. Yet another lie perpetuated by the lying progressive nutbags who insist we must kill babies to save lives. It's a crock of shit, as it was when the Nazis claimed the same thing.

That's what I thought you would think.

The condition is Uterus didelphys. It also manifested itself more severely than normal. In some cases a woman with a double-horned uterus can have only minor pregnancy complications. In the majority of cases the condition causes decreased fertility in women. However, in rarer cases, such as with my ex-wife, it causes increase fertility. Getting pregnant was almost too easy.

The OB/GYN in our case remarked that her situation was uncommon even for the condition. Such pregnancies have to be watched carefully because premature birth and miscarriage are common. Why she was so violently ill during the pregnancy is still not fully explained, but she literally could not eat or even keep any fluids down. Nothing. She started to waste away and before the end of the first trimester she almost started looking like Christian Bale from The Machinist.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to believe me, but the story is true. It is a situation I would not wish on anybody, even you. It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, I believe that unborn life deserves to be protected under the law, and I also believe there are situations in which an abortion is justified. I am not about to get into a detailed discussion with you about it because you lack the ability to discuss it maturely. Your knee-jerk assumption that I am lying makes any meaningful or even remotely productive discussion an impossibility.

That is an interesting and unusual situation (sorry, I don’t want to marginalize/degrade your experience and I feel for you but I have not heard of a case similar to this before). I am interested in your stance though. It is unusual to find a secular pro-life individual. When you state certain circumstances are you referring to anything specific like IDLH, rape etc. or do you support limited abortion based on other factors like time?

Thanks. I edited the post to add the part about endometriosis if you care to scroll up.

I understand that pro-life and pro-choice are labels, and I understand they are labels that most people seem to need in order to identify the line in the sand.

Unfortunately, real life sometimes defies that line in the sand. It would seem that religious belief and pro-life are inextricably linked, but this is not so. My problem is that I support the legal protection of unborn life but I am not as absolute about it as most religious fanatics are. Unborn life sometimes dies at the hands of people. Even the most justified war has resulted in the killing of innocent life, and even the most innocent of all life, the unborn child. It's life. It gets messy.

One of the most outspoken pro-life advocates I ever met was a positive atheist. He was also extremely articulate about it. A recent coworker I met, who is one of the most outspoken Christians I ever met, had a stance that was almost pro-choice. Unusual, yes, but such individuals exist.

I appreciate and respect your desire to know more about specific scenarios and how they affect my stance. My refusal to go into detail with KG about the issue is something I am resolute about, and so I regret I have painted myself into a corner here. I do not think KG is capable of a mature discussion about it.

 

[koshergrl]

I get it. Any statement that does not support outright protection by the government of all unborn life under all circumstances must be mealy-mouthed support of abortion.

Let me tell you a story. I was once married to a woman whom I got pregnant. She was unable to carry the baby to term without out risking her own life. I am not making this up in any way, shape, or form, although I am sure you are going to accuse me of lying. I wanted very much to have a child, but she was so sick from the pregnancy that there was genuine risk that she may not survive the pregnancy.

Making the decision to terminate was the most harrowing experience of our lives. There's not a day that goes by that it doesn't bother me. So, we made a decision" terminate that life or risk losing both her, or even both of them. So there, is that good enough for you? I made a choice, a choice that haunts me to this day. It was a choice in which there is nothing to feel but regret, no words to describe the choice that had to be made.

So, did I trample any rights? Hmmm? Any judgments you care to throw my way? Should the law have demanded her to carry the child even at the risk of her own life?

No, I'm not going to define for you every situation in which I feel that unborn life should be protected by law and every circumstance in which a choice must be made otherwise where it is none of the ******* government's business. You don't deserve to know. Because the truth of life is that we are not God. The government is not God. Now, you have every right to condemn me for the choice that I made, and I have every right to tell you that you are full of shit. But tell me, have we trampled each others rights by doing so?

So, whatever judgmental tripe you care to respond with I will happily read as always, but do yourself a favor, show some of the humility that the Bible tells you you should have, and don't even pretend to know anything about me or my beliefs, or how they might serve your arrogant self-serving agenda.

Really. So what was her condition called?

Because I think you're full of shit.

At any rate, it has NEVER been illegal for medically necessary abortion to take place...and it ever will be. Yet another lie perpetuated by the lying progressive nutbags who insist we must kill babies to save lives. It's a crock of shit, as it was when the Nazis claimed the same thing.

That's what I thought you would think. Ooh, and Nazis too. You're every bit as sensationalist as the progressive nutbags.

The condition is Uterus didelphys. It also manifested itself more severely than normal. In some cases a woman with a double-horned uterus can have only minor pregnancy complications. In the majority of cases the condition causes decreased fertility in women. However, in rarer cases, such as with my ex-wife, it causes increase fertility. Getting pregnant was almost too easy.

It's been a while since that experience. Since then, through Internet research, I have suspected that endometriosis was also involved, but I'm not a doctor. The severe complications and violent illness she suffered go beyond what is typical for uterus didelphys, which leads me to suspect that endometriosis, which sometimes accompanies uterus didelphys, was involved. For all I know the doctor even mentioned it, but I was so distraught at the time that I may not have processed everything clearly.

The OB/GYN in our case remarked that her situation was uncommon even for the condition. Such pregnancies have to be watched carefully because premature birth and miscarriage are common. Why she was so violently ill during the pregnancy is still not fully explained, but she literally could not eat or even keep any fluids down. Nothing. She started to waste away and before the end of the first trimester she almost started looking like Christian Bale from The Machinist.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to believe me, but the story is true. It is a situation I would not wish on anybody, even you. It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, I believe that unborn life deserves to be protected under the law, and I also believe there are situations in which an abortion is justified. I am not about to get into a detailed discussion with you about it because you lack the ability to discuss it maturely.Your knee-jerk assumption that I am lying makes any meaningful or even remotely productive discussion an impossibility.

Still you seem to believe that pro-life today means even in the case where the mother's life really is in danger. As you obviously know, that is a VERY rare instance indeed, and has NEVER been illegal. We didn't need RvW to save the lives of the few women who really must choose between their own life and the life of their baby. We don't need abortion clinics or abortion on demand now to accomodate them.

Yes, I do have a knee-jerk response to the topic. I've heard every lie under the sun (read through joeb & noomi's posts for a slew of them) to justify killing babies....in the womb, and shorly after they depart their mother's body. I've been in the clinics and I know what goes on there. I've counseled women who were coerced into abortions, and I've spent time with women who were brutally raped and got abortions. I don't judge the women who get legal abortions. I feel sorry for them because abortion is a man's game, and it's sole purpose is to keep women available for sex and reduce the amount of care and money men must contribute to the raising of children. It's nauseating, and it's not surprising that this "woman's" choice enjoys a LOT more support from men than it does from women.

 

[Jimmy_Jam]

Really. So what was her condition called?

Because I think you're full of shit.

At any rate, it has NEVER been illegal for medically necessary abortion to take place...and it ever will be. Yet another lie perpetuated by the lying progressive nutbags who insist we must kill babies to save lives. It's a crock of shit, as it was when the Nazis claimed the same thing.

That's what I thought you would think. Ooh, and Nazis too. You're every bit as sensationalist as the progressive nutbags.

The condition is Uterus didelphys. It also manifested itself more severely than normal. In some cases a woman with a double-horned uterus can have only minor pregnancy complications. In the majority of cases the condition causes decreased fertility in women. However, in rarer cases, such as with my ex-wife, it causes increase fertility. Getting pregnant was almost too easy.

It's been a while since that experience. Since then, through Internet research, I have suspected that endometriosis was also involved, but I'm not a doctor. The severe complications and violent illness she suffered go beyond what is typical for uterus didelphys, which leads me to suspect that endometriosis, which sometimes accompanies uterus didelphys, was involved. For all I know the doctor even mentioned it, but I was so distraught at the time that I may not have processed everything clearly.

The OB/GYN in our case remarked that her situation was uncommon even for the condition. Such pregnancies have to be watched carefully because premature birth and miscarriage are common. Why she was so violently ill during the pregnancy is still not fully explained, but she literally could not eat or even keep any fluids down. Nothing. She started to waste away and before the end of the first trimester she almost started looking like Christian Bale from The Machinist.

Anyway, I didn't expect you to believe me, but the story is true. It is a situation I would not wish on anybody, even you. It will haunt me for the rest of my life.

Yes, I believe that unborn life deserves to be protected under the law, and I also believe there are situations in which an abortion is justified. I am not about to get into a detailed discussion with you about it because you lack the ability to discuss it maturely.Your knee-jerk assumption that I am lying makes any meaningful or even remotely productive discussion an impossibility.

Still you seem to believe that pro-life today means even in the case where the mother's life really is in danger. As you obviously know, that is a VERY rare instance indeed, and has NEVER been illegal. We didn't need RvW to save the lives of the few women who really must choose between their own life and the life of their baby. We don't need abortion clinics or abortion on demand now to accomodate them.

Yes, I do have a knee-jerk response to the topic. I've heard every lie under the sun (read through joeb & noomi's posts for a slew of them) to justify killing babies....in the womb, and shorly after they depart their mother's body. I've been in the clinics and I know what goes on there. I've counseled women who were coerced into abortions, and I've spent time with women who were brutally raped and got abortions. I don't judge the women who get legal abortions. I feel sorry for them because abortion is a man's game, and it's sole purpose is to keep women available for sex and reduce the amount of care and money men must contribute to the raising of children. It's nauseating, and it's not surprising that this "woman's" choice enjoys a LOT more support from men than it does from women.

By "knee-jerk" I am referring to your automatic assumption that my experience was a lie.

I have no reason to believe that your experiences are true, or a lie, or that there is embellishment. I simply do not know so I'm not going to accuse you of any of the above. So I must take your experience on its own terms and deal with the scenarios as rationally as I possibly can. If you were lying, or embellishing, that would truly be despicable, but how on Earth would I know that?

Your accusation was truly despicable, and based on that I cannot accept that you are capable of a meaningful discussion on this topic. How would you treat my accusation that your experiences detailed above were made up? I don't trust you KG, and at this point it doesn't matter much what we agree or disagree on. I made a choice to share a very painful experience, one that I rarely share with anybody, and your response was to assume I was making it up. Certainly it was my choice to share it, but by what measure could I possibly trust you with such a sensitive topic?

 

[The Irish Ram]

If you are honest, you would admit that if the roles were reversed, and muslims were the majority in this country, you as a christian, would be dead set against them putting their monuments on public land. So why would you expect any different for your group?

The roles are already reversed. Only one religion is under attack in this country, Christianity, public and private.

An example is the established church near the Twin Towers, that was destroyed in the attack. They spent 9 years trying to get a permit to rebuild before they finally just gave up. But a Muslim tribute to their success? Sure, why not.

 

[FA_Q2]

I appreciate and respect your desire to know more about specific scenarios and how they affect my stance. My refusal to go into detail with KG about the issue is something I am resolute about, and so I regret I have painted myself into a corner here. I do not think KG is capable of a mature discussion about it.

I respect your choice then. If you are ever up to it though, I would not mind going into it in another thread. I am interested to debate someone that is against abortion (or at least more than I am) without the bullshit. Too many threads devolve on that subject.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If the Bible is correct it is the World vs. Christians. Atheists are just humans given over to seducing spirits.
Christianity is presently the most persecuted religion on the earth. And it's about to get worse.

This is so pathetic. POOR CHRISTIANS........

We'll live........