Why is climate science political?

[Old Rocks]

The other problem is transmission of wind generated power. Look at most output numbers for wind. They use the graph at 28mph. Average wind speed where I live is 13mph. Look at what that does to power output.

Are they putting the turbines where you live?

 

[saveliberty]

The other problem is transmission of wind generated power. Look at most output numbers for wind. They use the graph at 28mph. Average wind speed where I live is 13mph. Look at what that does to power output.

Are they putting the turbines where you live?

They are trying. Its all about building them and getting the funding/tax credits. Then you let them rot.

 

[Old Rocks]

Blunder, under the dictionary entry for D-K effect is your picture...just sayin!

I'm trying to figure out which of the bomb throwers in this thread to put on ignore.

Well, they're all olfraud socks so it doesn't really matter. They are all cut from the same cloth and I find them wildly entertaining.

Well, I don't find you fellows entertaining. But then I never liked the Three Stooges movies, either.

 

[Old Rocks]

The other problem is transmission of wind generated power. Look at most output numbers for wind. They use the graph at 28mph. Average wind speed where I live is 13mph. Look at what that does to power output.

Are they putting the turbines where you live?

They are trying. Its all about building them and getting the funding/tax credits. Then you let them rot.

Was in Eastern Oregon, used I-84 out to Arlington. All of the turbines were turning in the wind, didn't look like they were rotting to me. In fact, they are putting out enough juice that we have to shut them down for periods to avoid spilling too much water over the dams. Were our grid adaquete, we could be shipping power to anywhere in the US.

 

[saveliberty]

Are they putting the turbines where you live?

They are trying. Its all about building them and getting the funding/tax credits. Then you let them rot.

Was in Eastern Oregon, used I-84 out to Arlington. All of the turbines were turning in the wind, didn't look like they were rotting to me. In fact, they are putting out enough juice that we have to shut them down for periods to avoid spilling too much water over the dams. Were our grid adaquete, we could be shipping power to anywhere in the US.

Okay, see Oregon on the coast has winds averaging fast enough to warrant use. In Southern Central Michigan not so much. You apparently don't understand grids very well. You can only transmit power over short distances. Grids shift that power from one area to the next, but not from Oregon to Michigan.

 

[Old Rocks]

They are trying. Its all about building them and getting the funding/tax credits. Then you let them rot.

Was in Eastern Oregon, used I-84 out to Arlington. All of the turbines were turning in the wind, didn't look like they were rotting to me. In fact, they are putting out enough juice that we have to shut them down for periods to avoid spilling too much water over the dams. Were our grid adaquete, we could be shipping power to anywhere in the US.

Okay, see Oregon on the coast has winds averaging fast enough to warrant use. In Southern Central Michigan not so much. You apparently don't understand grids very well. You can only transmit power over short distances. Grids shift that power from one area to the next, but not from Oregon to Michigan.

You are speaking out of ignorance. We have a direct DC line from a dam on the Columbia to San Diego. That is about the distance of Michigan. Very high voltage DC can be economicaly tranmitted long distances. The problem with the US grid is that it is in three sections, and is an antique.

 

[Old Rocks]

And the Eastern side of Oregon is not the coast. Our wind potential pales beside that of Wyoming and Montana. Or either of the Dakotas.

 

[Old Rocks]

High Voltage DC Transmission Systems (HVDC) - Siemens

 

[Big Fitz]

They are trying. Its all about building them and getting the funding/tax credits. Then you let them rot.

Was in Eastern Oregon, used I-84 out to Arlington. All of the turbines were turning in the wind, didn't look like they were rotting to me. In fact, they are putting out enough juice that we have to shut them down for periods to avoid spilling too much water over the dams. Were our grid adaquete, we could be shipping power to anywhere in the US.

Okay, see Oregon on the coast has winds averaging fast enough to warrant use. In Southern Central Michigan not so much. You apparently don't understand grids very well. You can only transmit power over short distances. Grids shift that power from one area to the next, but not from Oregon to Michigan.

What? Weather and climate are different between Michigan and Oregon? Next you'll be trying to tell me they have different geography too!

 

[Saigon]

I have never seen windpower get a favorable review whenever it is honestly analyzed. Add to that the slaughter of wildlife and there is no reason why windpower should even be considered. Wind farms kills more birds than all the oil spills of the world combined ever, in a single year.

I think wind power has been over-hyped, but it is still useful in countries like Spain and Denmark that have excellent wind conditions.

The bird thing always struck me as a bit of a red herring:

According to the CSE, for every bird killed by a turbine, 5,820, on average, are killed striking buildings, typically glass windows.

The CSE recommends building wind mills out of known migratory routes. That doesn't seem too hard.

Wind myths: Turbines kill birds and bats | Environment | guardian.co.uk

 

[Trakar]

And how many MILLIONS of years ago was the Sahara seabed?

Good question! I'd like referenced answer to that question as well.

 

[Trakar]

And of course you haven't given any thought to why this might not be considered the best idea ever in Japan, California, Italy or Turkey?

Haven't given thought as to why vastly reducing the amount of highly radioactive waste that is currently stored on site at dozens of reactors is better than the status quo?

You continue to display your ignorance.

Todd -

Please answer the question.

Not Todd, but, earthquakes and tsunami's should be appropriate design conditions, the problem associated with building nuclear power plants at any location is appropriate consideration to the unique natural issues associated with that area. The problem with the nuclear power facillity in Japan wasn't that they built a nuclear power plant in Japan, its that they didn't adequately consider the somewhat obvious issues with that particular site and either choose a different site, or incorporate appropriate design features to handle the issues involved.

 

[westwall]

And how many MILLIONS of years ago was the Sahara seabed?

Good question! I'd like referenced answer to that question as well.

Ask and ye shall receive.......

it's general but fairly accurate.

Tectonic movements

The first major folding of the Tell Atlas Mountains of North Africa took place in the Oligocene Epoch. In the Miocene, North African flysch (thick and extensive deposits composed largely of sandstone) formed layers that, from the Er-Rif to northern Tunisia, were pushed from the north toward the south. The High Plains area, farther south, which as a whole was only mildly deformed, was bounded on the south by the northern Atlas Mountains, which intervened between it and the Saharan Atlas. Continental movements lifted the Aurès mountains to a height of about 3,300 feet during the middle of the Miocene; the Aurès are bounded on the south by the northern Sahara structural line, which extends from Agadir in Morocco in the west to the Gulf of Gabes in Tunisia in the east, dividing the African Shield from the folded Mediterranean, or Alpine, zone.


Africa : Marine formations -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

 

[westwall]

I have never seen windpower get a favorable review whenever it is honestly analyzed. Add to that the slaughter of wildlife and there is no reason why windpower should even be considered. Wind farms kills more birds than all the oil spills of the world combined ever, in a single year.

I think wind power has been over-hyped, but it is still useful in countries like Spain and Denmark that have excellent wind conditions.

The bird thing always struck me as a bit of a red herring:

According to the CSE, for every bird killed by a turbine, 5,820, on average, are killed striking buildings, typically glass windows.

The CSE recommends building wind mills out of known migratory routes. That doesn't seem too hard.

Wind myths: Turbines kill birds and bats | Environment | guardian.co.uk

I'll listen to these people a little more closely.....


The number of birds killed by wind turbines is highly variable. And biologists believe Altamont, which uses older turbine technology, may be the worst example. But that said, the carnage there likely represents only a fraction of the number of birds killed by windmills. Michael Fry of the American Bird Conservancy estimates that U.S. wind turbines kill between 75,000 and 275,000 birds per year. Yet the Justice Department is not bringing cases against wind companies.

or.......



ALTAMONT PASS, Calif. — The big turbines that stretch for miles along these rolling, grassy hills have churned out clean, renewable electricity for two decades in one of the nation's first big wind-power projects.

SeaWest Windpower wind turbine generators stand near Tracy, Calif.
By Ben Margot, AP

But for just as long, massive fiberglass blades on the more than 4,000 windmills have been chopping up tens of thousands of birds that fly into them, including golden eagles, red-tailed hawks, burrowing owls and other raptors.

After years of study but little progress reducing bird kills, environmentalists have sued to force turbine owners to take tough corrective measures. The companies, at risk of federal prosecution, say they see the need to protect birds. "Once we finally realized that this issue was really serious, that we had to solve it to move forward, we got religion," says George Hardie, president of G3 Energy.

The size of the annual body count — conservatively put at 4,700 birds
USATODAY.com - Wind turbines taking toll on birds of prey

And that is for a single wind farm.

 

[westwall]

Haven't given thought as to why vastly reducing the amount of highly radioactive waste that is currently stored on site at dozens of reactors is better than the status quo?

You continue to display your ignorance.

Todd -

Please answer the question.

Not Todd, but, earthquakes and tsunami's should be appropriate design conditions, the problem associated with building nuclear power plants at any location is appropriate consideration to the unique natural issues associated with that area. The problem with the nuclear power facillity in Japan wasn't that they built a nuclear power plant in Japan, its that they didn't adequately consider the somewhat obvious issues with that particular site and either choose a different site, or incorporate appropriate design features to handle the issues involved.

The plant did fine with the earthquake and it would have weathered the tsunami as well if they had bothered to place the back up generators on the roofs of the containment buildings like they had been told to do. The tsunami wiped out the generators and that is what led to the meltdown.

Basically the Japanese got complacent because they think they know everything there is to know about earthquakes and tsunamis. Complacency kills.

 

[Trakar]

How many trillions do you want us to waste on CO2 reduction?

How much is western civilization worth to you?

How much lower will the temperature be in 2080 if we follow your advice?

Unlikely enough lower to avoid a lot of expensive consequences, but hopefully enough lower to avoid the irrecoverable consequences. Most of the next century is already in the pipeline, at least as far as the changes we are likely to see in the next 50 years, we can make things worse, but due to lags in system response and the momentum the system has already been given, there isn't much we can do that will make the next half century retreat from the course we are currently influencing.

 

[Trakar]

I have never seen windpower get a favorable review whenever it is honestly analyzed. Add to that the slaughter of wildlife and there is no reason why windpower should even be considered. Wind farms kills more birds than all the oil spills of the world combined ever, in a single year.

Please supply reliable reference for these statistics and analyses, they sound fabricated.

 

[Trakar]

They did as good a job as I've seen of trying to make them look aesthetic, but they're still ugly buggers wherever they are. But the Copenhagen ones weren't as ugly as the Pickens group south of Lamar all the way down the road through Oklahoma's panhandle to Amarillo. Barf.

They aren't as ugly, nor as smelly and health hazardous as oil derricks, strip mines and smoke stacks, but we still seem to have them all around the nation.

 

[Trakar]

And how many MILLIONS of years ago was the Sahara seabed?

Good question! I'd like referenced answer to that question as well.

Ask and ye shall receive.......

it's general but fairly accurate.
Africa : Marine formations -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

So 55-65Mya?

More recent than I would have guessed.
Oh, and thank you very much!

 

[Trakar]

The plant did fine with the earthquake and it would have weathered the tsunami as well if they had bothered to place the back up generators on the roofs of the containment buildings like they had been told to do. The tsunami wiped out the generators and that is what led to the meltdown.

Basically the Japanese got complacent because they think they know everything there is to know about earthquakes and tsunamis. Complacency kills.

That will probably always be an issue of concern and consideration.