Why is Building the Wall Wrong?

[Porter Rockwell]

OK. And I'm pointing out those issues have nothing to do with each other. Opposition to the wall isn't about granting anyone citizenship. It's about the freedom of people to travel here, work here and live here.

They have no such freedom. They can come here if we give them permission. That's it.

Your permission or mine? Please cite me that part of the Constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

OMG. Are you kidding? That was tried once today. The rest of the article deals with a ten dollar tax per person after 1808. One only need to look at the year in which they Chy Lung decision was laid down to see that.

The US Constitution gives a general “OUTLINE” .. if you prefer “ bullet statements” ... regarding each branch of government. In this case, it surrounds the role of the legislative branch, and the authority of Congress. If you NOW want to change the subject to interpretation and original intent, we can talk about the 14th Amendment.

I’m willing to bet you wont be able to establish much surrounding your point of view, without actually taking the time to do the actual research on this subject, as I have.

You're probably right. I've only been involved in court cases surrounding the 14th Amendment for 35 or so years and have written maybe 250 court briefs on the topic. I'm sure you have much more extensive experience. Virtually all you build the wall guys do.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Of course you can all be wrong. Jim Jones got over 900 people to drink cyanide laced Kool Aid based on a lie. You are just as susceptible to being fooled - AND you just proved it with that part "several others have done the same. We all can't be wrong.."

You just inadvertently admitted you're a Democrat - majority rule - might makes right.

Let me tell you something:

Ever since the Israelites began worshiping the golden calf while Moses was receiving the law of God, history has proven that majorities are usually wrong. In the instant case BOTH sides are wrong - and you're wrong basically because the solutions you stand behind belonged to Democrats before they were adopted by the people writing your talking points.

My goodness you are off the charts tonight. Every one of my concerns and points are the exact opposite of the Democrat party. Yours are much more inline with them than mine. Nobody is "ruling" you, just pointing out that I'm not the only one who sees you as an open borders person.

They can see me for what they like. That won't make it true. As I told you, there are two questions they've never asked me. Their entire world is, much like yours, if you don't buy the build the wall solution as being the only solution, you're an open borders liberal.

If you can't understand, after I've defined what you told me, that YOU are a liberal Democrat, then you are less intelligent than I ever dreamed. You should do some self introspection and then say, if I want to make a difference in the future of my nation and my culture, MAYBE I should STFU, do some studying, and figure out what this is all about.

You're so hung up on trying to peg me that you have no clue as to where I stand. You even ignore the hints. It's like someone is needed to bash you in the head with a rock before you understand: There are many sides to this issue and most people have serious flaws with their proposed solutions.

Every person arguing for a wall could not convince a jury. The recent turnover in the House of Representatives should tell you how ineffective your position is. In order to win, you'd have to be able to make the other guy's argument for him and do a better job than he does. You don't have a freaking clue as to where I stand and you end up making some of the most idiotic statements known to God or man.

That is why you're in the same boat the followers of Jim Jones were in.

Yes, you gained seats in the House, but lost them in the Senate. And if you bother to look at the results, you'd see that both parties had an outstanding and historical turnout. It's just that the hatred of the Democrats won over. But Trump supporters are still behind him as they were during the presidential election.

Nobody ever said the wall is the sole solution. You are making up that BS in your head. The wall (as border patrol stated) is a very helpful part of the solution. The solution is multi-level. The sole solution would be to get the Congress to pass a law making being here illegally a first degree felony with a minimum five year prison sentence. Then there would be no need for a wall, no need for e-veryfiy, no need for additional border agents, no need to track down illegals here. Most of them would pack up and leave the country.

I know quite well what this is all about--you don't. You remain ignorant of the long term goals by the Democrat party yet support their initiatives and furthermore claim yourself as a conservative.

I have endured your dumbassery long enough. I didn't win a damn thing Ray as I voted Republican. I don't support Democracy - not in name, not by party, not by ideology. YOU DO and I'm sick and tired of your dishonesty so I'll treat you like you treat me.

You have one standard. If someone does not back the silly wall, they are a liberal, etc. THAT is what separates you from others with an IQ higher than their shoe size.

If you had ANY IQ, you would know why Congress can pass no such law as you suggest. My only point to you is that we are restricted by the parameters of the Constitution and SCOTUS rulings in what kind of legislation we an pass.

You have proven to be a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a poseur. YOU adopted Bill Clinton's philosophy and have your head stuck so far up the liberals ass that if they fart, you will choke to death or get your first breath of air.

Now, you've called me a liberal for the last time. Put up, shut up or get ready for a nasty back and forth. Enough of this B.S. You didn't know what an unalienable Right is so you don't have a clue when you advocate withholding one or denying one to someone. You would have to kill me Ray in order to do some of the things you propose. My Rights are unalienable. You cannot take them; you cannot impose on them. To even suggest it shows that YOU ARE NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN.

You should start at post #2806. Read it and then cull through those 500 posts so you can see the number of times you LIED, called me names and tried to deflect when asked direct questions. It's not my fault that the left misled you and made a socialist out of you. Now, you want a discussion or a pissing match?

Put up a wall and no rights of yours will be taken away. If that happens, you let me know what right you lost, and I'll join your side. This "losing rights' nonsense is some sort of black helicopter scare tactic that will never work. You want to prove yourself as a conservative? Then join the conservatives on this issue.

Your issue is not a conservative one. It was the view of the Democrats BEFORE they sold you a pig in a poke. I'm going out to breakfast right now. After church I will have a message just for you.

In the mean time, you should pray. The Bible says by what measure you've judged me, you will be judged. You have still failed to ask two important questions. So I'm not going to answer them; just allow you to keep digging that pit deeper and deeper so you can't climb out. Later.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

After reading your first sentence I realize that you are a mindless fool. You don’t respect those who risk their lives on the frontlines. You can go and jump in a frozen lake.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

My goodness you are off the charts tonight. Every one of my concerns and points are the exact opposite of the Democrat party. Yours are much more inline with them than mine. Nobody is "ruling" you, just pointing out that I'm not the only one who sees you as an open borders person.

They can see me for what they like. That won't make it true. As I told you, there are two questions they've never asked me. Their entire world is, much like yours, if you don't buy the build the wall solution as being the only solution, you're an open borders liberal.

If you can't understand, after I've defined what you told me, that YOU are a liberal Democrat, then you are less intelligent than I ever dreamed. You should do some self introspection and then say, if I want to make a difference in the future of my nation and my culture, MAYBE I should STFU, do some studying, and figure out what this is all about.

You're so hung up on trying to peg me that you have no clue as to where I stand. You even ignore the hints. It's like someone is needed to bash you in the head with a rock before you understand: There are many sides to this issue and most people have serious flaws with their proposed solutions.

Every person arguing for a wall could not convince a jury. The recent turnover in the House of Representatives should tell you how ineffective your position is. In order to win, you'd have to be able to make the other guy's argument for him and do a better job than he does. You don't have a freaking clue as to where I stand and you end up making some of the most idiotic statements known to God or man.

That is why you're in the same boat the followers of Jim Jones were in.

Yes, you gained seats in the House, but lost them in the Senate. And if you bother to look at the results, you'd see that both parties had an outstanding and historical turnout. It's just that the hatred of the Democrats won over. But Trump supporters are still behind him as they were during the presidential election.

Nobody ever said the wall is the sole solution. You are making up that BS in your head. The wall (as border patrol stated) is a very helpful part of the solution. The solution is multi-level. The sole solution would be to get the Congress to pass a law making being here illegally a first degree felony with a minimum five year prison sentence. Then there would be no need for a wall, no need for e-veryfiy, no need for additional border agents, no need to track down illegals here. Most of them would pack up and leave the country.

I know quite well what this is all about--you don't. You remain ignorant of the long term goals by the Democrat party yet support their initiatives and furthermore claim yourself as a conservative.

I have endured your dumbassery long enough. I didn't win a damn thing Ray as I voted Republican. I don't support Democracy - not in name, not by party, not by ideology. YOU DO and I'm sick and tired of your dishonesty so I'll treat you like you treat me.

You have one standard. If someone does not back the silly wall, they are a liberal, etc. THAT is what separates you from others with an IQ higher than their shoe size.

If you had ANY IQ, you would know why Congress can pass no such law as you suggest. My only point to you is that we are restricted by the parameters of the Constitution and SCOTUS rulings in what kind of legislation we an pass.

You have proven to be a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a poseur. YOU adopted Bill Clinton's philosophy and have your head stuck so far up the liberals ass that if they fart, you will choke to death or get your first breath of air.

Now, you've called me a liberal for the last time. Put up, shut up or get ready for a nasty back and forth. Enough of this B.S. You didn't know what an unalienable Right is so you don't have a clue when you advocate withholding one or denying one to someone. You would have to kill me Ray in order to do some of the things you propose. My Rights are unalienable. You cannot take them; you cannot impose on them. To even suggest it shows that YOU ARE NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN.

You should start at post #2806. Read it and then cull through those 500 posts so you can see the number of times you LIED, called me names and tried to deflect when asked direct questions. It's not my fault that the left misled you and made a socialist out of you. Now, you want a discussion or a pissing match?

Put up a wall and no rights of yours will be taken away. If that happens, you let me know what right you lost, and I'll join your side. This "losing rights' nonsense is some sort of black helicopter scare tactic that will never work. You want to prove yourself as a conservative? Then join the conservatives on this issue.

Your issue is not a conservative one. It was the view of the Democrats BEFORE they sold you a pig in a poke. I'm going out to breakfast right now. After church I will have a message just for you.

In the mean time, you should pray. The Bible says by what measure you've judged me, you will be judged. You have still failed to ask two important questions. So I'm not going to answer them; just allow you to keep digging that pit deeper and deeper so you can't climb out. Later.

Whatever fatty

 

[eagle1462010]

Obviously you don't know what Socialism is. Keeping people out of the country is not socialism, it's protection of the citizens.

You don't bother to read, do you? It is YOUR position that the jobs created are for the American people. That has nothing to do with your immigration argument. You are afraid to separate the two.

You have FINALLY been half honest with me, Ray. Your REAL objective is to keep people out of the United States. If you look back, it wasn't that hard, Ray.

I've always been honest about it, but you never cared for what I said.

Me being against immigration is for several reason, not just one. I've listed several of them, but there are actually more. And if you list those negatives of immigration vs so-called positives, you will find the negative beats the positive three to one.

If you were being honest, then you were ignorant and need to do some reading in several areas: general civics, history, law and constitutional interpretation.

That, most likely, explains why you try to pass me off as a liberal or a moderate instead of answering questions as they are asked of you.

Pretexts are not reasons. They are just that. For example, in my neighborhood, there are PLENTY of jobs almost anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size can get. Most pay between $20 and $40 an hour. When they don't take them and Hispanics show up, I work them.

NOWHERE in that scenario does it give you any indication of where I stand on the issue. But, sometimes I need things done and have to work within a budget. If Americans don't apply for the jobs, I either get the help I need or lose what I own. It's that simple. Do you realize I've been at this for four decades now and not one single time has one of the people wanting a wall and bitching about jobs EVER walked away from their computer and applied for a job that I told them about?

Penalties

CIVIL VIOLATIONS

• Knowingly hired, or to have knowingly recruited or referred for a fee, an unauthorized alien for employment in the United States or to have knowingly continued to employ an unauthorized alien in the United States
• Failing to comply with Form I-9 employment verification requirements
• Committing or participating in document fraud for satisfying a requirement or benefit of the employment verification process or the INA
• Committing document abuse
• Unlawful discrimination against an employment-authorized individual in hiring, firing, or recruitment or referral for a fee
• Failing to notify DHS of a Final Nonconfirmation (FNC) of an employee’s employment eligibility
• Requiring an individual to post a bond or security or to pay an amount or otherwise to provide financial guarantee or indemnity against any potential liability arising under the employment verification requirements

CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS

• Engaging in a pattern or practice of hiring, recruiting or referring for a fee unauthorized aliens

What Is the Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA)?

What does IRCA mean to employers?
Obviously, employers cannot hire immigrants who are not authorized to work in the U.S. All workers must fit into one of the four following categories:

1. U.S. citizen
2. noncitizen national
3. lawful permanent resident
4. alien authorized to work

To check work authorization, the federal government requires a Form I-9 be filled out for every employee upon hire. This applies to U.S. citizens, too. The employee will fill out the first section and indicate their work authorization classification.

You should READ this thread. Let's start you out with post # 2806. I'll come back later and start the discussion all over since you are not going to read the freaking thing.

I responded to your talking points regarding your hiring illegals.............and made valid points to those comments......You are breaking the law by hiring them. Only problem being as I discussed.

Fix that law.........and you wouldn't get a pass for hiring them. You know you are hiring illegals........You know you are breaking the law...........but have a legal loop hole out............saying I didn't know later.

 

[eagle1462010]

Mandatory.
Nationwide.
Federal Law.
Now.

See there. We only had to wait minutes on it. On this issue, we have to, unfortunately give danielpalos a half right.

"Congress shall have the power to ...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization" Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." 10th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States

There is NOTHING in the Constitution that prohibits states - or the people for that matter from inviting foreigners into the United States. Congress has a very limited power here.

It's interesting that you're referring to the "state rights" when just few years back left rejected any state's jurisdiction over the immigration.

The federal government's jurisdiction over immigration law has consistently been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, which has overruled attempts by state legislatures to single out immigrants. Additionally, the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution is generally interpreted to mean that federal laws trump state laws, except for certain matters constitutionally left to the states.

When Arizona signed SB 1070 into law in 2010, the DOJ stated in a brief that Arizona lawmakers "crossed a constitutional line" with the new law. A federal judge blocked four of the most controversial elements, including the requirement that police check the immigration status of anyone they stop or suspect is in the state illegally.

Don't get me wrong, I think that individual states should have control over what's happening within their borders, except over citizenship and naturalization (that is federal jurisdiction), but you lefties cannot have it both way depending on who's in power.

I will overlook your ignorance. I'm not a lefty. In the more than thirty years of voting - never missing a single election, I have voted for exactly ONE Democrat (and that was for the PSC.) I've also been an officer in my local Republican Party.

In my lifetime, I've been consistent. I didn't change; the people on the right did. My introduction into politics began as a young man who lost his job (as did a lot of guys) due to affirmative action and racial quotas. My position then, as now, is that employers have the right to determine WHO they want to hire. Now, let us get our facts straight.

During the lives of ALL the founders of this country, the states had control over immigration while the federal government had control over naturalization. Each and every one of the founders would be buried before the SCOTUS would do something downright dirty.

In 1875 the SCOTUS, in the case of Chy Lung v. Freeman granted plenary powers over immigration to Congress after the defendants in California failed to mount a defense. While the SCOTUS scolded the defendants for not presenting a defense, they went above and beyond their authority.

The SCOTUS is authorized only to interpret the laws; they have NO authority to grant any power to any other branch of government. If you can show me that authority I will change my views. It's hypocritical for us to whine and complain when the SCOTUS - or government in general tries to subvert the Second Amendment, but then try and defend the government when they use an illegal / unconstitutional tactic if we think we benefit off it.

Nothing to do with your violating the law points.........Nothing.

 

[eagle1462010]

Si if these assholes have all the answers why isn’t the bordersecure? Do ya think?

Our border is MORE secure than almost all other countries on the planet....except for Israel that is forced to employ fascist tactics.

LMAO. Every progressive Leftist in this forum is also an anti Semite. It’s a disease.

Who do you think funds and pioneers the build the wall talking points?

Then again, you might be playing semantics with that term "anti-semite."

Border Patrol agents want it. That to me is first and foremost in importance. Progressive Left is anti Semitic. That is also a fact.

I don't give a rip what Border Patrol agents want. They work for the taxpayers. Who do you think researched and wrote the talking points that the build the wall guys rely on?

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion..............We have forever wanted better border security............and your bragging about hiring illegals put you on the other side against us.

I would add the E-verify to the 1986 law.............and criminal penalties for business.

 

[dblack]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

 

[danielpalos]

why allege to be for capitalism, right wingers. socialism on a national and international basis is all you know.

 

[eagle1462010]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

 

[22lcidw]

Capitalism is Worthless if we need a Wall.

Who says we are a capitalist nation?

 

[dblack]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

 

[eagle1462010]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism is Worthless if we need a Wall.

Who says we are a capitalist nation?

the right wing. it is all about the profit not the People for the right wing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

If anybody is trying to turn our country into a gulag it's you people. Bring in cheap labor, let them work for next to nothing because it's better than what they have at home. The only way to survive is stuffing 15 people in a three bedroom apartment or home. People crawling on each other like animals.

 

[dblack]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

I don't give a shit about idiotic laws. Laws that deny reality deserve to be ignored.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

Do any Trump ass kissers ever wonder why Trump didn't campaign and tell his cult the more honest slogan:

"We will build a wall...and YOU are going to pay for it"...

LOL

You DO realize the United States gave Mexico $289 million for the year 2017 alone, right? Why are we funding nations who’s citizens are crossing into our country illegally? Solution: cut Mexico dry if they won’t enforce THEIR own side of the border. We have too much National Debt to waste it on a nation who’s citizens are crossing here illegally.

Need proof? Here is the source from the Federal Government.
SOURCE: U.S. Foreign Aid by Country

As I’ve said on this thread, I’ve done the research. Care to rephrase your statement now?

 

[eagle1462010]

They do the job............I agree with it..........Your one opinion doesn't outweigh our opinion...

It might. Because it's not just one person who thinks you're a bunch of insecure cowards. A lot of people in the US want our country to be a beacon for freedom. And we'll fight your efforts to turn it into a gulag.

And we'll say to you that you have no right to pick and choose which laws you will obey.................Not a gulag.......a do not enter sign..................

Obey the law.........come here via LEGAL MEANS...........or get caught and deported...........It is not our responsibility to take in everyone because it sucks where they came from.............

We are against you in this fight.........pretty simple huh..................

It is. We'll not roll over and let you turn our nation a fascist police state.

And we will not roll over and allow you to turn it into Venezuela...........LOL

Notice you don't give a shit about the laws on this issue........because they are against you. LOL

I don't give a shit about idiotic laws. Laws that deny reality deserve to be ignored.

So you'll be Okay when you pass idiotic liberal laws and we tell you to **** off.........LOL

Okie Dokey.

But you just pointed out the Liberal Agenda to a Tee...............Nailed it right on the head..........You only will obey laws you agree with............but of course you'll demand we obey those you do agree with..........

Spot on......thanks for making my point.

 

[boedicca]

Building the wall is wrong only if your definition of right is to destroy the U.S.A. as a sovereign nation and to enable Globalist Elites to plunder the remains.