Debate Now Why Is Being "Politically Correct" A Bad Thing To Some People?

[Bonzi]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

If you say that with politically correct words, it's no better....

All African Americans (which, all blacks are not African Americans) are criminals.
It's the statement that is offensive.

When I think politically correct, I'm thinking using the work African American vs. the "N" word.

I think there are words that are offensive, and also words that if said to the wrong person could wind up hurting you, but there are certain terms that people say are not "politically correct" that seem to be more like controlling how you speak vs. talking like a civilized person. Or a non-hateful person.

Your example is just hateful. No matter how it's worded.

 

[Asclepias]

Why would I want you to use words that create a barrier to communication?

Why would I kiss your ass in order to tell you something ?

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

 

[emilynghiem]

The offended person said your actions were a mistake.

Thats a silly claim.

There is no assumption the offense is real. Undoubtedly it was offensive or the person wouldnt say it was.

The person could be dishonest.

Or could be honestly offended and still purposefully using Political Correctness to suppress arguments they have no honest answer for.

If you think they are dishonest why are you talking to them then? That highly irrational.

Because they are half the political divide and growing. Ignoring them is not an option.

Ignoring them is better than making them more of a problem right? Of course this is all based on your refusal to find a way to communicate effectively.

I am willing to listen to you without censoring your free speech. You however are unwilling to do the same.

Dear dilloduck for the people pushing PC agenda in a onesided, self-conflicting way,
YES you are right, most are unwilling to listen or change while expecting other people to.
Clearly contradictory and hypocritical.

Asclepias however is asking to do something different here.
Wants to hear what you and others have to say.
He's not perfect, and yes he has jumped on people in the past when he felt jumped on.
That's going to happen, especially online with these sensitive difficult issues.

But he's also willing to take correction, I've seen him work very hard
to meet me halfway, where we both changed how we said things to make sense to each other!

So if you would please give him a chance, he does want to hear you out.
Please try, this is very important for someone on the PC side to get what is
going wrong, and understand what it really takes to correct it.

If he can hear you, and get what you are saying is wrong,
he can help correct what is wrong with how PC is done in general.

He is trying to pinpoint and address where corrections are really needed.
Please don't give up, please keep replying until you and Asclepias
get on the same page with where things go wrong and how to do it right! Thanks!

 

[Bonzi]

Okay I'll give an example of political incorrectness said out of ignorance. This is a true story and I make this "faux pas" myself.....

At work, I was talking to my boss (this was about 20 some years ago) anyway, I bought a car and was telling him about it and said I "Jew-ed them down" on the price. Well, I never really thought about the derivation of that statement, it was just something I had heard and knew what it meant in context (negotiating a price down) - and my boss was like "please be careful using that expression" (because in my job, I was in communication with several Jewish business men, mostly lawyer and bankers) -

My intent was not to be offensive to Jewish people and I wasn't really even aware of it.
I can understand how people might find it disrespectful, but I think only very immature and insecure people are going to get bent out of shape over it, unless it's said in a hateful way.....

But you are basing that on your assumption of what is immature or insecure right? They may believe your use of the term is immature. hateful, insecure, etc. What makes you the definer for other people? What makes you right in your evaluation?

That's a "vicious" circle.
And it's hard for me to really participate in this conversation because there is nothing anyone could say to me that could offend me. I mean nothing.

 

[Ravi]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

That is not Politically Incorrect. That is racist.

A better example would be to call a Black Thug a BLack Thug.

The term "black thug" is POlitically Incorrect, regardless of whether it is true or not.

Using the term itself, or even the idea is taboo.

It is both politically incorrect and racist.

And your black thug is kind of racist as well as it implies that someone is a thug because he or she is black.

But there is the actual problem with slinging around the term PC police. It shuts down logical discussion.

 

[dilloduck]

Why would I kiss your ass in order to tell you something ?

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

So people need to read your mind and figure out what is going to offend you before they speak. ? Are you unable to comprehend words that offend you. Are you victimized by them ?

 

[emilynghiem]

Why would I kiss your ass in order to tell you something ?

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

^ What? Since when does your responsibility depend on the actions of another.
Asclepias really?
If you are a jerk then I can be one, too?
Sure but that makes you both jerks, you can't blame the other person for how you choose to act. Both remain responsible for their own action or unwillingness to change.

 

[Ravi]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

If you say that with politically correct words, it's no better....

All African Americans (which, all blacks are not African Americans) are criminals.
It's the statement that is offensive.

When I think politically correct, I'm thinking using the work African American vs. the "N" word.

I think there are words that are offensive, and also words that if said to the wrong person could wind up hurting you, but there are certain terms that people say are not "politically correct" that seem to be more like controlling how you speak vs. talking like a civilized person. Or a non-hateful person.

Your example is just hateful. No matter how it's worded.

Of course it is hateful. That is what being politically incorrect is all about. People want to be as hateful as they want to be and not get called on it.

 

[Ravi]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

If you say that with politically correct words, it's no better....

All African Americans (which, all blacks are not African Americans) are criminals.
It's the statement that is offensive.

When I think politically correct, I'm thinking using the work African American vs. the "N" word.

I think there are words that are offensive, and also words that if said to the wrong person could wind up hurting you, but there are certain terms that people say are not "politically correct" that seem to be more like controlling how you speak vs. talking like a civilized person. Or a non-hateful person.

Your example is just hateful. No matter how it's worded.

And seriously? African American is the PC term for ******?

 

[Asclepias]

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

So people need to read your mind and figure out what is going to offend you before they speak. ? Are you unable to comprehend words that offend you. Are you victimized by them ?

Nope. You call me a dodo head. I say dont call me that. You call me by my name. Conversation continues. You claim all men are wife beaters. I say thats ridiculous and offensive because you dont know all men. You say ok some men. Its a give and take.

Yes if you use a word that offends me I literally cannot understand it. Yes it victimizes the person because now they cant understand what you are talking about.

 

[dilloduck]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

If you say that with politically correct words, it's no better....

All African Americans (which, all blacks are not African Americans) are criminals.
It's the statement that is offensive.

When I think politically correct, I'm thinking using the work African American vs. the "N" word.

I think there are words that are offensive, and also words that if said to the wrong person could wind up hurting you, but there are certain terms that people say are not "politically correct" that seem to be more like controlling how you speak vs. talking like a civilized person. Or a non-hateful person.

Your example is just hateful. No matter how it's worded.

Of course it is hateful. That is what being politically incorrect is all about. People want to be as hateful as they want to be and not get called on it.

Stop being so hateful Ravi.

 

[Correll]

Why would I kiss your ass in order to tell you something ?

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

NOpe. In the past I have tried hundreds of times altering the terminology in order to move the discussion forward.

It never worked.

ONce the person in question chooses to be "offended" they change the debate to how bad a person the alleged "offender" is.

There is no going back from that. It is a win for the user of POlitical Correctness. The topic is how bad their opponent is. The debate is their opponent claiming not to be a bad person, and the user of PC repeating their charges.

 

[dilloduck]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

If you say that with politically correct words, it's no better....

All African Americans (which, all blacks are not African Americans) are criminals.
It's the statement that is offensive.

When I think politically correct, I'm thinking using the work African American vs. the "N" word.

I think there are words that are offensive, and also words that if said to the wrong person could wind up hurting you, but there are certain terms that people say are not "politically correct" that seem to be more like controlling how you speak vs. talking like a civilized person. Or a non-hateful person.

Your example is just hateful. No matter how it's worded.

And seriously? African American is the PC term for ******?

Negro

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Asclepias please focus on trying to keep OldLady and dilloduck
on track with what you are really trying to address here. They are both trying
to meet you halfway. If you can meet them halfway you can exemplify what
is meant by this being a mutual process where both might have to stretch and change
how we say things so the other side can hear us. I think you and they can succeed
because you are both sincerely trying. Don't let them give up, and don't give up on them!

 

[dilloduck]

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

So people need to read your mind and figure out what is going to offend you before they speak. ? Are you unable to comprehend words that offend you. Are you victimized by them ?

Nope. You call me a dodo head. I say dont call me that. You call me by my name. Conversation continues. You claim all men are wife beaters. I say thats ridiculous and offensive because you dont know all men. You say ok some men. Its a give and take.

Yes if you use a word that offends me I literally cannot understand it. Yes it victimizes the person because now they cant understand what you are talking about.

That is a lie------you understand non PC words perfectly well...... I KNEW we were going to have to deal with you as a victim again.

 

[Correll]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

That is not Politically Incorrect. That is racist.

A better example would be to call a Black Thug a BLack Thug.

The term "black thug" is POlitically Incorrect, regardless of whether it is true or not.

Using the term itself, or even the idea is taboo.

It is both politically incorrect and racist.

And your black thug is kind of racist as well as it implies that someone is a thug because he or she is black.

But there is the actual problem with slinging around the term PC police. It shuts down logical discussion.

There is nothing in the use of the term Black Thug to describe someone that implies they are a thug because he or she is black.

Anyone more than calling someone a rich bald guy, implies he is rich because he is bald.

 

[Asclepias]

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

NOpe. In the past I have tried hundreds of times altering the terminology in order to move the discussion forward.

It never worked.

ONce the person in question chooses to be "offended" they change the debate to how bad a person the alleged "offender" is.

There is no going back from that. It is a win for the user of POlitical Correctness. The topic is how bad their opponent is. The debate is their opponent claiming not to be a bad person, and the user of PC repeating their charges.

Then that only means you are doing something wrong and blaming your failure on someone else because it couldnt possibly be you that is incorrect. Whats worse is that you are taking that interaction and applying it to everyone you deem to be on "that side".

 

[Asclepias]

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

So people need to read your mind and figure out what is going to offend you before they speak. ? Are you unable to comprehend words that offend you. Are you victimized by them ?

Nope. You call me a dodo head. I say dont call me that. You call me by my name. Conversation continues. You claim all men are wife beaters. I say thats ridiculous and offensive because you dont know all men. You say ok some men. Its a give and take.

Yes if you use a word that offends me I literally cannot understand it. Yes it victimizes the person because now they cant understand what you are talking about.

That is a lie------you understand non PC words perfectly well...... I KNEW we were going to have to deal with you as a victim again.

Here is a good example right here. Youre telling me what I understand as if you can read my mind which is of course pure nonsense.

 

[Bonzi]

Examples are best to work with - like what is an example of something that would be said that is politically INCORRECT that would be a barrier to discussion?

"All black people are thugs"

That is not Politically Incorrect. That is racist.

A better example would be to call a Black Thug a BLack Thug.

The term "black thug" is POlitically Incorrect, regardless of whether it is true or not.

Using the term itself, or even the idea is taboo.

It is both politically incorrect and racist.

And your black thug is kind of racist as well as it implies that someone is a thug because he or she is black.

But there is the actual problem with slinging around the term PC police. It shuts down logical discussion.

Any kind of angry and personal insults (real or perceived) shuts down productive discussion.

 

[Programmer]

I've seen many times on this board the term "politically correct" being used in derogatory manner. It baffles me to be honest. What is it that would make being politically correct something to frown upon as opposed to a tool to further communication?

Rules:

1. No off topic comments. Please address the question.
2. Be able to prove your position using common sense. No links

First there's a popular, Trump-inspired backlash against political correctness. That's technically your answer.

What stands to reasoning in this position is that political correctness can be imprecise. There's certain things that can't be addressed directly under that paradigm. American politicians and journalists both use the Annenberg political correctness manual, and guess who are popular villains this cycle.

 

[emilynghiem]

Because you are trying to tell me something and you wouldnt want to waste your time. Or would you?

If you need him to kiss your ass before your able or willing to listen, the problem is you.

Could be but that doesnt make me hear your message. So you have failed in getting your point across.

If you close your mind and refuse to listen it is no failure of mine.

I closed my mind due to your failure. If you had simply changed your words then your goal would have been achieved.

NOpe. In the past I have tried hundreds of times altering the terminology in order to move the discussion forward.

It never worked.

ONce the person in question chooses to be "offended" they change the debate to how bad a person the alleged "offender" is.

There is no going back from that. It is a win for the user of POlitical Correctness. The topic is how bad their opponent is. The debate is their opponent claiming not to be a bad person, and the user of PC repeating their charges.

Dear Correll if the person is going in with an Unforgiving attitude,
you are right, the clashes and projection will happen and there is not room
for mutual give and take as needed to clarify communications.

If you enlist the aid of a Third Party who aligns, supports and forgives both sides,
sometimes communication can still be facilitated even if the two sides continue to
distrust and blame each other. So I suggest asking a neutral, inclusive third party to help
facilitate the next time you run into this.

With Asclepias, as long as two people don't set off each other's defensiveness and ego's,
you should be able to communicate past that. Once you set each other off, you might need
a mutual friend to throw some water on the flames and cool things off first.
You don't want to triangulate the conflict, by taking sides, but neutralize it.

If both parties feel secure addresssing each other as equals and including
instead of rejecting each other's viewpoints, then the sharing and exchange of ideas can take place mutually.
---------------
see below Guidelines for Sharing from CHR:

GUIDELINES FOR SHARING

• We have come together to try to learn about ... and promote a healing process.

• Sharing is voluntary.

• We want to create a safe, loving and respectful atmosphere.

• Sharing is about one's own feelings, experiences, perceptions, etc.

• We are not always going to agree or see everything the same way and that's O.K.

• Each person has a right to and responsibility for his or her own feelings, thoughts, and beliefs.

• It is important to avoid criticism or judgement about another person's sharing, point of view, and/or feelings.

• Avoid getting tied up in debate and argument. It rarely changes anything or anyone and tends to ultimately inhibit the sharing.

• We can only change ourselves. Our change and growth may, however, inspire someone else.

• Refrain from singling out any individual as "representing" his or her group or issue.

• It is important to give full attention to whomever is talking.

• Feelings are important.

• We will surely make mistakes in our efforts, but mistakes are occasions for learning and forgiving.

• We may laugh and cry together, share pain, joy, fear, or anger.

• Hopefully we will leave these meetings with a deeper understanding and a renewed hope for the future of humanity.