Zone1 Why is antisemitism so much more prevalent among blacks than whites - 4x worse in the most antisemitic category?

[alexa]

It's a danger to everyone but blacks are more identifiable than Jews, unless they are a Jew of color.

Yes. I do not live in the US and from afar it looks like it is in a very scary position. I was watching a program a couple of weeks or so ago where white people, I think it was only men who were interviewed, had come to this place in the hope of setting up a whites only almost certainly white supremacist town. It had been tried before there. For me the White Supremacy thing you have got there is very scary as you say more for blacks than Jews who can if they wish hide the fact they are Jews. In some ways I have felt more concerned about Jews than Blacks. You know exactly the....OMG it does not bare thinking about and I have not thought about it in connection to blacks until now. I have been imagining that that would just be as bad as it is now though of course that is not true.

 

[irosie91]

Yes. I do not live in the US and from afar it looks like it is in a very scary position. I was watching a program a couple of weeks or so ago where white people, I think it was only men who were interviewed, had come to this place in the hope of setting up a whites only almost certainly white supremacist town. It had been tried before there. For me the White Supremacy thing you have got there is very scary as you say more for blacks than Jews who can if they wish hide the fact they are Jews. In some ways I have felt more concerned about Jews than Blacks. You know exactly the....OMG it does not bare thinking about and I have not thought about it in connection to blacks until now. I have been imagining that that would just be as bad as it is now though of course that is not true.

I can help-----long ago I was assigned as a college kid to the "english remedial room". Pay attention to
that which you write----make sure that your PRONOUNS refers to something SPECIFIC

 

[22lcidw]

In blue cities Jewish businessman had success. All ways if earning a living by all groups existed. African Americans moved up to make those cities blue. Man worked in industries that existed and the went bust as the world retooled after WW 2. African Americans were not on the top of the list for employment as it became tougher. Jewish business owners who were stricter with their employees paid out the minimum of federal mandated rules and laws and did not much more for employees. Treating people like shit but some of them deserved it also. Many white people worked in that situation to.

 

[alexa]

The OP article is 1998 and it is talking about there being less black antisemtism than 6 years before. It is far too old to be speaking about now so I did a search and came up with an article that sounds plausible. Nick Cannon who I do not know was considered antisemetic in the way he spoke about someone else accused of antisemitism. Then the nation of Islam is mentioned and that the Southern Poverty find them antisemetic. Ok so that is it. Then the article which is 2020, just 2 years ago starts talking about its title which is

Despite recent anti-Semitic comments, Jews and Black people have long been allies​

The comments by Cannon and the two Jacksons caused a stir and puzzled some who wondered how people who have presumably been victims of racism could voice prejudice towards another minority group. Luminaries such as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wrote a column asking why there wasn't more outrage over the remarks.

These stories about supposed Black-Jewish tensions fit a pattern. They hibernate and then re-emerge every couple of years to feed a perception that there is pervasive anti-Semitism in the Black community or some historical "tension" between Black people and Jews.

But that perception is bogus. No one should let the uninformed musings of a few Black celebrities convince us otherwise. Talk to many people who know the history of both groups and they will tell you the same.

Ravi Perry, an activist and chairman of the political science department at Howard University, rejects the notion that there is a rising tide of anti-Semitism among Black people or some new tension between the two groups.

"There is no more prejudice in the Black community around people of the Jewish faith or ethnicity than any other groups," Perry says. "Just like Black people don't commit more crimes than White people. Just like Black people aren't more homophobic than Whites. Black people are not more anti-Semitic than other groups."

Despite recent anti-Semitic comments, Jews and Black people have long been allies

When did Jews become the enemy of Black people? My quick answer: Never.

edition.cnn.com

It then goes on to discuss their work together and then

Contemporary polls suggest that some of that bond remains.

A 2018 survey by the PRRI polling firm said that while 28% of White mainline Protestant and 20% of White evangelical Protestants believe Jewish Americans experience a lot of discrimination, 44% of Black Protestants say Jewish people face a lot of discrimination.

African Americans are actually more likely than White Americans and the general population to say that Jews face a lot of discrimination in the US today," says Robert Jones, founder of PRRI and author of "White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity."

A 2019 poll from LifeWay Research found that one in five Black Americans believe Jewish people are blocking their progress.

But the survey also found that "a significant number (of African Americans) also draw comparisons to their overcoming struggles as a people and that of the ancient Israelites."

Why is this shared history so easily forgotten, even by educated folks?

Part of the answer can be summed up in one name: Louis Farrakhan.

You might assume Farrakhan has a large following in the Black community based on the attention he gets. But Farrakhan's following has long been misunderstood or distorted. No matter how he portrays himself, he has not been widely accepted like an MLK or a Barack Obama. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to con you.

I covered Farrakhan at his peak popularity and attended rallies when he could fill a stadium. I sat in on an intimate, two-hour interview with him. And I wrote about the epic 1996 Million Man March.

But here's what some people forget. His anti-Semitism was never a huge part of his appeal to Black people. For some, sure. But for most it was his message about self-empowerment, and the way he denounced White racism.

The media often misses this nuance when talking about the Nation and Farrakhan. There were churches that wouldn't or couldn't reach Black men in prison, or didn't know how to reach young men. But the Nation did -- and still does.

Perry, the political scientist, says a lot of Black people tune out parts of Farrakhan's anti-Semitism, much like they do with other religious leaders.

"To assume that every Black church member believes everything that their pastor says out of his mouth is ridiculous," he says, "but that doesn't mean they're going to stop going to church."

Despite recent anti-Semitic comments, Jews and Black people have long been allies

When did Jews become the enemy of Black people? My quick answer: Never.

edition.cnn.com

This sounds very credible to me.

 

[Coyote]

And you’re right back to saying how blacks had it worse. Can we PLEASE not go there?

When you make a point about how terribly persecuted, poor and penniless Jewish immigrants were, then ask why there is antisemitism from another persecuted minority, and claim it’s resentment, you invited the comparison because it is relevant.

The question is….why is antisemitism so much more pronounced among blacks than whites? You mention the nasty tropes against Jews as greedy moneylenders, and that blacks resent when they see Jews be successful by opening shops and that they (blacks) remain poor.

But this isn’t restricted to just black neighborhoods. Jews open shops all over, including poor white areas, and poor whites would be in the same position.. And yet, overall, there is still much more Jew-hate among blacks than whites.

Jews are seen as white as well as Jewish.

I still say that there is a special underlying resentment, on the part of blacks, against Jews because the latter has been terribly persecuted and still has risen to an above-average level of success (as a group). It’s a sad commentary that a minority that has been so persecuted is looked upon with disdain rather than with admiration for the things they did right that has led to their success.

You greatly simplify it and again, invite comparisons of how persecuted each has been in THIS country and the effect of that on things we regard as markers of success.

P.S. I’m not saying Jews are perfect, so don’t jump in to point out their flaws. I’m saying that they HAVE succeeded despite antisemitism, and the traits and choices that enabled that should be emulated rather than put down.

I think your making a big assumption that those traits don’t exist in the black community.

 

[Lisa558]

When you make a point about how terribly persecuted, poor and penniless Jewish immigrants were, then ask why there is antisemitism from another persecuted minority, and claim it’s resentment, you invited the comparison because it is relevant.





Jews are seen as white as well as Jewish.









You greatly simplify it and again, invite comparisons of how persecuted each has been in THIS country and the effect of that on things we regard as markers of success.



I think your making a big assumption that those traits don’t exist in the black community.

You are giving me a harder time and challenging me more than you are the black activists who scream “racist!!” at me for days on end, make up lies about what I’ve said, and launch personal insult after insult - and in a Zone 1 thread. In fact, I don’t think you’ve challenged them on their inappropriate tone and content at all.

So if you don’t mind, I’d prefer not to engage with you further. You are very biased in defense of blacks and seek out ways to criticize Jews, and since you are a mod, you have an unfair advantage.

That said, have a good rest of the day.

 

[Coyote]

You are giving me a harder time and challenging me more than you are the black activists who scream “racist!!” at me for days on end, make up lies about what I’ve said, and launch personal insult after insult - and in a Zone 1 thread. In fact, I don’t think you’ve challenged them on their inappropriate tone and content at all.

I’m responding to the topic. I am not required to be an “equal opportunity” critic any more than you are (and you aren’t). Stop pulling the victim card. When you make broad generalizations about a race, start multiple threads comparing “model minorities” with the one (and only one) you see fit to criticize expect to be challenged. Expect pushback. This is a discussion board.

So if you don’t mind, I’d prefer not to engage with you further. You are very biased in defense of blacks and seek out ways to criticize Jews, and since you are a mod, you have an unfair advantage.

That said, have a good rest of the day.

You are free to ignore me and I am free to participate in this thread Like any other member.

 

[Lisa558]

I’m responding to the topic. I am not required to be an “equal opportunity” critic any more than you are (and you aren’t). Stop pulling the victim card. When you make broad generalizations about a race, start multiple threads comparing “model minorities” with the one (and only one) you see fit to criticize expect to be challenged. Expect pushback. This is a discussion board.




You are free to ignore me and I am free to participate in this thread Like any other member.

And there you go….showing your bias again.

You say I am playing the “victim card” - I am doing the opposite actually, showing how Jews SUCCEED despite horrific antisemitism - while you allow blacks to rage on and on about racism from 200 years ago.

Anyway, thank you for respecting my wish not to engage with someone so biased that she tells a Jew to stop playing the victim card while cheering on blacks going on infinitum over how they’ve been victimized.

 

[Coyote]

And there you go….showing your bias again.

You say I am playing the “victim card” - I am doing the opposite actually, showing how Jews SUCCEED despite horrific antisemitism - while you allow blacks to rage on and on about racism from 200 years ago.

Anyway, thank you for respecting my wish not to engage with someone so biased that she tells a Jew to stop playing the victim card while cheering on blacks going on infinitum over how they’ve been victimized.

Blacks in America have been substantially impacted by a century of state laws that held them back in ways that Jews were not: seperate but unequal. The GI Bill catapulted many white Americans into the middle class that was out of reach for many black families. Black wealth was confined to black communities which could be destroyed in a moment (Tulsa race riots) and survivors forced out, losing their property. The government disproportionately took black owned property for eminent domain projects destroying entire communities. When you look at a century of this, 4 generations, of growth and prosperity gained and then lost, it’s amazing they did as well as they have. This is not the sort of thing Jews in THIS country have had to face though they certainly did elsewhere.

When you make these kind of sweeping generalizations about the success or perceived lack of, of minorities and attribute it to “resentment” of a “model minority” you are ignoring a hundred years of history which is still in living memory. When you make statements that blacks as a group should be emmulating tbe “qualities of success” of said ”model minority” you are implying, without evidence, that blacks (as a group) lack those qualities (such as hard work) which in itself plays into the racist trope that blacks are lazy.

So why the increased antisemitism among blacks? That’s worth exploring and it certainly deserves a better answer than a broad generalization.

Some of the bits and pieces:

ADL Survey Finds Anti-Semitism High in Black Community

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

African-Americans continue to be significantly more likely than white Americans to hold anti-Jewish beliefs. As with whites, education level is the most important factor affecting the attitudes of blacks toward Jews…​

The current survey reaffirms the strong correlation between education level and acceptance of anti-Jewish stereotypes among African-Americans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

The article adds: “[Retiring ADL President Abe] Foxman attributes the persistence of anti-Semitism among African-Americans to denial of the problem and a dearth of black leaders speaking out against anti-Semitism. Among Latinos, the attitudes are seen as a holdover from Latin America, where traditional Catholic anti-Semitism persists and anti-Semitic attitudes are higher than in America. Once they acculturate to the United States, Latino anti-Semitism declines: Among first-generation immigrants, about 40 percent hold anti-Semitic attitudes; among those born here, the number falls to 20 percent. ”

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/black-antisemitism/

Shaping Black Antisemitism
Malcolm X can be identified as the founding father of contemporary Black antisemitism. Formally joining the Nation of Islam (NOI) in 1952 upon his release from prison, Malcolm X became its leading spokesperson until his stormy break with the organization in March 1964. After his assassination on February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was raised to sainthood and “his picture and philosophy abounded wherever black students gathered from Tougaloo to Harvard” (Turner, 1969).

Central to Malcolm X’s message and appeal was his portrayal of Jews as the major “bloodsuckers” preying on the “so-called Negroes of America” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020). He railed again and again about all the allegedly usurious Jewish shopkeepers in Black neighborhoods who were “robbing you deaf, dumb and blind.” “It’s Jews that run these run-down stores that sell you bad food” (Pollack, 2011). He informed rapt audiences that Jews “control 90 percent of the businesses in every Negro community from the Atlantic to the Pacific” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020).

 

[Lisa558]

Blacks in America have been substantially impacted by a century of state laws that held them back in ways that Jews were not: seperate but unequal. The GI Bill catapulted many white Americans into the middle class that was out of reach for many black families. Black wealth was confined to black communities which could be destroyed in a moment (Tulsa race riots) and survivors forced out, losing their property. The government disproportionately took black owned property for eminent domain projects destroying entire communities. When you look at a century of this, 4 generations, of growth and prosperity gained and then lost, it’s amazing they did as well as they have. This is not the sort of thing Jews in THIS country have had to face though they certainly did elsewhere.

When you make these kind of sweeping generalizations about the success or perceived lack of, of minorities and attribute it to “resentment” of a “model minority” you are ignoring a hundred years of history which is still in living memory. When you make statements that blacks as a group should be emmulating tbe “qualities of success” of said ”model minority” you are implying, without evidence, that blacks (as a group) lack those qualities (such as hard work) which in itself plays into the racist trope that blacks are lazy.

So why the increased antisemitism among blacks? That’s worth exploring and it certainly deserves a better answer than a broad generalization.

Some of the bits and pieces:

ADL Survey Finds Anti-Semitism High in Black Community

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

African-Americans continue to be significantly more likely than white Americans to hold anti-Jewish beliefs. As with whites, education level is the most important factor affecting the attitudes of blacks toward Jews…​

The current survey reaffirms the strong correlation between education level and acceptance of anti-Jewish stereotypes among African-Americans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

The article adds: “[Retiring ADL President Abe] Foxman attributes the persistence of anti-Semitism among African-Americans to denial of the problem and a dearth of black leaders speaking out against anti-Semitism. Among Latinos, the attitudes are seen as a holdover from Latin America, where traditional Catholic anti-Semitism persists and anti-Semitic attitudes are higher than in America. Once they acculturate to the United States, Latino anti-Semitism declines: Among first-generation immigrants, about 40 percent hold anti-Semitic attitudes; among those born here, the number falls to 20 percent. ”

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/black-antisemitism/

Shaping Black Antisemitism
Malcolm X can be identified as the founding father of contemporary Black antisemitism. Formally joining the Nation of Islam (NOI) in 1952 upon his release from prison, Malcolm X became its leading spokesperson until his stormy break with the organization in March 1964. After his assassination on February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was raised to sainthood and “his picture and philosophy abounded wherever black students gathered from Tougaloo to Harvard” (Turner, 1969).

Central to Malcolm X’s message and appeal was his portrayal of Jews as the major “bloodsuckers” preying on the “so-called Negroes of America” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020). He railed again and again about all the allegedly usurious Jewish shopkeepers in Black neighborhoods who were “robbing you deaf, dumb and blind.” “It’s Jews that run these run-down stores that sell you bad food” (Pollack, 2011). He informed rapt audiences that Jews “control 90 percent of the businesses in every Negro community from the Atlantic to the Pacific” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020).

Thank you for respecting my wish to not engage with you. For that reason, I did not read what you wrote. Please address someone else from now on.

 

[irosie91]

Blacks in America have been substantially impacted by a century of state laws that held them back in ways that Jews were not: seperate but unequal. The GI Bill catapulted many white Americans into the middle class that was out of reach for many black families. Black wealth was confined to black communities which could be destroyed in a moment (Tulsa race riots) and survivors forced out, losing their property. The government disproportionately took black owned property for eminent domain projects destroying entire communities. When you look at a century of this, 4 generations, of growth and prosperity gained and then lost, it’s amazing they did as well as they have. This is not the sort of thing Jews in THIS country have had to face though they certainly did elsewhere.

When you make these kind of sweeping generalizations about the success or perceived lack of, of minorities and attribute it to “resentment” of a “model minority” you are ignoring a hundred years of history which is still in living memory. When you make statements that blacks as a group should be emmulating tbe “qualities of success” of said ”model minority” you are implying, without evidence, that blacks (as a group) lack those qualities (such as hard work) which in itself plays into the racist trope that blacks are lazy.

So why the increased antisemitism among blacks? That’s worth exploring and it certainly deserves a better answer than a broad generalization.

Some of the bits and pieces:

ADL Survey Finds Anti-Semitism High in Black Community

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

African-Americans continue to be significantly more likely than white Americans to hold anti-Jewish beliefs. As with whites, education level is the most important factor affecting the attitudes of blacks toward Jews…​

The current survey reaffirms the strong correlation between education level and acceptance of anti-Jewish stereotypes among African-Americans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/19/entrenched-anti-semitic-views-very-rare-among-whites-and-asian-americans-common-among-blacks-and-latinos/

The article adds: “[Retiring ADL President Abe] Foxman attributes the persistence of anti-Semitism among African-Americans to denial of the problem and a dearth of black leaders speaking out against anti-Semitism. Among Latinos, the attitudes are seen as a holdover from Latin America, where traditional Catholic anti-Semitism persists and anti-Semitic attitudes are higher than in America. Once they acculturate to the United States, Latino anti-Semitism declines: Among first-generation immigrants, about 40 percent hold anti-Semitic attitudes; among those born here, the number falls to 20 percent. ”

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/black-antisemitism/

Shaping Black Antisemitism
Malcolm X can be identified as the founding father of contemporary Black antisemitism. Formally joining the Nation of Islam (NOI) in 1952 upon his release from prison, Malcolm X became its leading spokesperson until his stormy break with the organization in March 1964. After his assassination on February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was raised to sainthood and “his picture and philosophy abounded wherever black students gathered from Tougaloo to Harvard” (Turner, 1969).

Central to Malcolm X’s message and appeal was his portrayal of Jews as the major “bloodsuckers” preying on the “so-called Negroes of America” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020). He railed again and again about all the allegedly usurious Jewish shopkeepers in Black neighborhoods who were “robbing you deaf, dumb and blind.” “It’s Jews that run these run-down stores that sell you bad food” (Pollack, 2011). He informed rapt audiences that Jews “control 90 percent of the businesses in every Negro community from the Atlantic to the Pacific” (Norwood & Pollack, 2020).

IMHO----blacks are more impacted by the african culture they brought with them, than by "JIM CROW
LAWS" Slavery was not invented in the USA, nor
were the social more's of black african societies

 

[Coyote]

IMHO----blacks are more impacted by the african culture they brought with them, than by "JIM CROW
LAWS" Slavery was not invented in the USA, nor
were the social more's of black african societies

Not sure I totally agree. African culture, the culture that came out of American slavery and subsequent the Jim Crowe era all combined to create a unique American culture. Slavery wasn’t invented here, but it shaped a significant part of our culture today.

 

[irosie91]

Not sure I totally agree. African culture, the culture that came out of American slavery and subsequent the Jim Crowe era all combined to create a unique American culture. Slavery wasn’t invented here, but it shaped a significant part of our culture today.

that's ok----85 % agreement would be about
right

 

[themirrorthief]

Maybe because African Americans are substantially more likely to live in the failed, hate-producing liberal inner cities than are Honkies?

White people predominate in smaller, suburban subdivisions and small towns, which are a lot less hateful than the big city than are blacks.

I'd like to see a comparison between inner city blacks and whites, and suburban subdivision blacks and whites, before coming to the conclusion that this is a racial thing.

the inner cities are run by democrats...just basically third world toilets

 

[JoeB131]

The study linked below references how much more common antisemitism is among blacks, and the question is “why,” considering that Jews - well out of proportion to their numbers - put their lives on the line to march with blacks during Civil Rights. (In another thread, a black claims they did this for selfish reasons, and not to help blacks, which is a claim that simply reveals his antisemitic attitude and unwillingness to credit Jews.)

In this thread, I’d like to discuss why blacks are so much more antisemitic, and feel free to express it, when - ironically - they simultaneously condemn the effects of bigotry.

In a word: RESENTMENT. They resent the fact that another minority, arriving uneducated and penniless on these shores, could have moved from inner-city tenement slums to middle-class home ownership out in the suburbs in a single generation (and in spite of the antisemitism blocking Jews from many colleges.)

Or here's an alternative explanation.

Blacks are more likely to encounter Jewish landlords who don't keep the facilities up to date, Jewish bankers who won't approve them for loans, etc.

And while whites are still too busy self-flagellating over something that happened in another country that their grandfathers fought to put an end to, blacks just don't have time for that nonsense.

 

[Polishprince]

Or here's an alternative explanation.

Blacks are more likely to encounter Jewish landlords who don't keep the facilities up to date, Jewish bankers who won't approve them for loans, etc.

And while whites are still too busy self-flagellating over something that happened in another country that their grandfathers fought to put an end to, blacks just don't have time for that nonsense.

Blaiming someone's religious preference because you don't qualify for a loan or they provide you a crappy rental is sort of stupid.

 

[JoeB131]

Blaiming someone's religious preference because you don't qualify for a loan or they provide you a crappy rental is sort of stupid.

Unless their religion tells them that this kind of behavior is okay.

 

[Polishprince]

Unless their religion tells them that this kind of behavior is okay.

No religion requires that its members issue loans to unqualified would-be lenders or abstain from renting lower quality, discount properties if the have them available.

 

[BothWings]

Simple competition over who is the most victimized victim and deserves affirmative action the most.

 

[Lisa558]

Simple competition over who is the most victimized victim and deserves affirmative action the most.

Jews don’t get affirmative action. They are lumped in with the general white category, and thus “diversity goals” work against them.